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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:28 am 
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Big Nipper wrote:

Yes John Smit was the best player in the Bok team all those years

Do sod off - Kolisi is a terrific player and captain

Read what I said Nips.............don't just react.

Kolisi is an exceedingly average player and captain.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:33 am 
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sunnybanana wrote:
Willie needs game time. Of the nailed on starters, he and Faf are coming in coldest. I’d start him again vs the Pumas. Gelant on the bench as he could do with a run out too.

Koch, Coetzee and Reinach all deserve a proper opportunity at this stage. The 1st 2 especially (at least Reinach’s position in the squad is secure). It’s also hardly a gamble playing them ahead of the likes of Malherbe and Louw.

My team for next week:

Le Roux
Kolbe
Kriel
Steyn
Nkosi
Pollard
Reinach
Vermeulen
Du Toit
Coetzee
Mostert
Etzebeth
Koch
Marx
Mtawarira

Kitshoff
Mbonambi
Nyakane
Snyman
Smith
Jantjies
Jantjies
Gelant


I would be VERY happy with that match day team as well. Ticks all the boxes of the remaining questions I have.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:34 am 
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Chilli wrote:
Big Nipper wrote:

Yes John Smit was the best player in the Bok team all those years

Do sod off - Kolisi is a terrific player and captain

Read what I said Nips.............don't just react.

Kolisi is an exceedingly average player and captain.

I like you because you are great on the braai thread, but we will differ on rugby opinions, and I am ok with that

:smug: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:49 am 
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Chilli wrote:
Big Nipper wrote:

Yes John Smit was the best player in the Bok team all those years

Do sod off - Kolisi is a terrific player and captain

Read what I said Nips.............don't just react.

Kolisi is an exceedingly average player and captain.


I'm not a massive fan of Kolisi, I'll state that up front.

Loose forward is probably the position where we have the most riches in SA and has always been a contentious position when assessing the "best" players that "should" be the Bok team. It has been since as long as I have been watching rugby. From Francois Pienaar, to the Teichman vs. Skinstad debacle, to Pedrie Wannenburg, Pierre Spies, Heinrich Brussouw, Mahoje...and *spit* Luke Watson...and many many more. At some point in almost every coach's tenure there have been some selections at 6,7 or 8 that the majority of South African's had an issue with. Where we think somebody shouldn't be there that there was another player that was more deserving because of a great Currie Cup or Super Rugby season.

Kolisi is no doubt one of those players for most of us, bar maybe Saffer13 and Rassie's #1 fan, handyman. There are so many good flankers in SA at the moment, depending on what metric you use, somebody else could arguably be considered the better player. Kolisi might not be the best, but he is also not the worst; and when it comes to captaincy, that is a metric we as fans really have very limited insight into. We only get to see his skills in that regard for 80 mins on the field, and maybe some pre- and post match interviews.

The reality is that a team captain has a bunch of other responsibilities within the team such as managing disputes and conflict, fostering the team culture and representing players during discussions with coaching and management. For all we know Kolisi does this very well. Well enough for the team to have to sometimes carry him when he goes missing on the field? I don't know, but Rassie seems to think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:20 am 
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At his best, Kolisi is an excellent player. It’s just unfortunate that he hasn’t often reached those heights since taking on the captaincy. Hopefully this period out of the game will be good for him.
He will captain the side if fit so we all want him to do well.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 am 
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Also everyone has their own criteria of what makes a good player worthy of the Bok team or not. Whereas a coach tend to look for specific skill sets to fit into his game plan. So just because a player is very good playing for his province under certain instructions, it does not mean that that is what the national coach wants in that position. So there will always be disagreements related to who deserves to be there. And of course provincialism can play a part as well, who does not want to see their favourite local boys playing for the Springboks? But in the end of the day, the coach is the one who is searching for a specific type, and he has to live or die with that decision. Some players are skillful enough to play any game a coach requires, and some players cannot be as good outside their comfort zone.

As a Bulls fan I would love to see Specman and Stander, even Odendaal being given a chance, Even Lizo in my opinion should get some more playing time. As I thought he was the best most consistent performing prop from the South African Super Teams. But in the end of the day, many might not agree with me and obviously Rassie does not either, But at the same time I cannot confidently say that the others does not deserve to be in front of them. Although I do believe Odendaal would have made an improvement at 12 compared to the other 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:56 am 
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sunnybanana wrote:
At his best, Kolisi is an excellent player. It’s just unfortunate that he hasn’t often reached those heights since taking on the captaincy. Hopefully this period out of the game will be good for him.
He will captain the side if fit so we all want him to do well.


:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:57 am 
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Stander? You mean Van Staden?


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:59 am 
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Specman is dynamite on attack, if given space, for me, I think his defence is poor and that's why Rassie won't play him.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:04 am 
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sunnybanana wrote:
Stander? You mean Van Staden?


Great typo :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:16 am 
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Sandstorm wrote:
sunnybanana wrote:
Stander? You mean Van Staden?


Great typo :lol:


Haha yeah that's what I mean. :blush: Someone was asking me about the Stander Movie earlier on whatsapp... so got it stuck in my mind :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:57 am 
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Blake wrote:
The reality is that a team captain has a bunch of other responsibilities within the team such as managing disputes and conflict, fostering the team culture and representing players during discussions with coaching and management. For all we know Kolisi does this very well. Well enough for the team to have to sometimes carry him when he goes missing on the field? I don't know, but Rassie seems to think so.

Kolisi as captain make political sense. Very important.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Pole wrote:
Who is creating the avatars?

Could I ask for herschel?

Pole , AJ produce this one.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:31 pm 
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assfly wrote:
handyman wrote:
Guys, saffer13 has already made fools of a number of posters about Kolbe. He will do the same with Kolisi and you will be left with egg on your face.

Something a certain poster knows very well.


Hardly. I don't think a single poster on PR was calling for his inclusion in the Bok squad last year until Rassie surprised us.

Check the link I posted earlier from a couple years back. It makes a few posters look more like idiots than usual. Sards in particular it that’s hardly newsworthy. Jens was another that called for Kolbe to be included :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:32 pm 
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OomPB wrote:
handyman wrote:
Guys, saffer13 has already made fools of a number of posters about Kolbe. He will do the same with Kolisi and you will be left with egg on your face.

Something a certain poster knows very well.

Yeh he did the same with Prince. :lol:

I called for him to be in the Bok squad? You’re like Sards these days. In fact, I’ve been clear about Dan being the duP with the most potential of the two. But they all look the same so I understand your confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:37 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
OomPB wrote:
handyman wrote:
Guys, saffer13 has already made fools of a number of posters about Kolbe. He will do the same with Kolisi and you will be left with egg on your face.

Something a certain poster knows very well.

Yeh he did the same with Prince. :lol:

I called for him to be in the Bok squad? You’re like Sards these days. In fact, I’ve been clear about Dan being the duP with the most potential of the two. But they all look the same so I understand your confusion.



Dude its better if you post when we are asleep so we dont have to deal with your kak...


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:52 pm 
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RWC Update on Willemse:
Quote:
Cape Town - As the 2019 Rugby World Cup draws closer, the Springbok squad for Japan looks to be picking itself in many ways.

That is largely down to the fact that, over the last two weekends, there have been some hugely impressive individual performances from players who have put their hands up.

The likes of Herschel Jantjies, S'bu Nkosi, Trevor Nyakane, RG Snyman, Warrick Gelant and Kwagga Smith have all put in big performances when they needed to with just two Tests against Argentina remaining before the Boks must name a squad of 31 players for the World Cup.

By now, coach Rassie Erasmus must be pretty close to having finality on the composition.

There are, however, a few uncertainties remaining and one of those comes in the form of 21-year-old Damian Willemse.

Considered one of the brightest young prospects in South African rugby, Willemse has been sidelined since the beginning of June with a knee injury that required surgery.

He has not featured in Western Province's Currie Cup campaign to date, and he is not currently with the Springboks in New Zealand.

While Willemse has been out, Erasmus has given game time to Gelant at fullback against the Wallabies while 32-year-old World Cup winner Frans Steyn has played two matches off the bench.

Against the All Blacks in Wellington on Saturday, Steyn replaced centre Damian de Allende in the 56th minute at No 12.

He was also the flyhalf cover for Handre Pollard in that match.

There is no arguing against Steyn's pedigree or ability, but it is instead that versatility that makes him such an attractive option heading into the World Cup.

In Steyn, the Boks have somebody who has 'been there and done it' before after he won the 2007 World Cup as a 20-year-old when he replaced the injured Jean de Villiers in the Bok team.

Ever since, Steyn has been incredibly highly rated, but his Bok involvement has been limited over the years because of reported contractual conflicts with SA Rugby.

He is back now, though, and everyone in the Bok camp - including Erasmus - seems quite chuffed about that.

It does not spell good news for Willemse and his ambitions of playing at the global spectacle in Japan, however.

Erasmus had said last year that he saw Willemse operating as the back-up fullback to Willie le Roux at the World Cup.

Gelant, though, put himself firmly in the picture with a polished display against Australia two weekends ago, while Kolbe is another option at the back.

When one throws Steyn into that mix, picking Willemse as the back-up No 15 is no longer so straightforward.

Ideally, Erasmus would like to add to Willemse's five Test caps before making up his mind, but that now seems impossible given his injury situation.

He has started running again and he is expected to be back playing towards the end of August and the back-end of the Currie Cup.

That might be cutting it a bit fine.

Taking injured players to a World Cup is always a gamble, and now that the Boks have Steyn back in the mix, Willemse might not be a gamble worth taking.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:55 pm 
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He's young. If he misses this world cup he'll still be able to do another two. Best get his head down and get a good Currie Cup under his belt.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:01 pm 
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assfly wrote:
He's young. If he misses this world cup he'll still be able to do another two. Best get his head down and get a good Currie Cup under his belt.

2, maybe 3, but yes, I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:24 pm 
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Read what almost every poster writes (except for Nips and the Trumpeter). They all say "Kolisi is sometimes a very good player or Kolisi sometimes plays well, or when he isn't going missing for vast portions of the match Kolisi is a good player"
Really? And that is the standard for a Bok Captain? Some of us criticised Smit, others JDV for not being up to standard but it seems like Leg Drive is judged differently to other Bok Captains.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Chilli wrote:
Read what almost every poster writes (except for Nips and the Trumpeter). They all say "Kolisi is sometimes a very good player or Kolisi sometimes plays well, or when he isn't going missing for vast portions of the match Kolisi is a good player"
Really? And that is the standard for a Bok Captain? Some of us criticised Smit, others JDV for not being up to standard but it seems like Leg Drive is judged differently to other Bok Captains.

You can add beachboy to the list. I think you're wrong about Kolisi but hey, differing opinions and that's ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Chilli wrote:
Read what almost every poster writes (except for Nips and the Trumpeter). They all say "Kolisi is sometimes a very good player or Kolisi sometimes plays well, or when he isn't going missing for vast portions of the match Kolisi is a good player"
Really? And that is the standard for a Bok Captain? Some of us criticised Smit, others JDV for not being up to standard but it seems like Leg Drive is judged differently to other Bok Captains.



But you and others ARE criticizing Kolisi - so he is being held to the exact same standard :?


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:27 pm 
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BokJock wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Read what almost every poster writes (except for Nips and the Trumpeter). They all say "Kolisi is sometimes a very good player or Kolisi sometimes plays well, or when he isn't going missing for vast portions of the match Kolisi is a good player"
Really? And that is the standard for a Bok Captain? Some of us criticised Smit, others JDV for not being up to standard but it seems like Leg Drive is judged differently to other Bok Captains.



But you and others ARE criticizing Kolisi - so he is being held to the exact same standard :?

To an extent yrs


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:20 am 
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Another good thing about Siya is that playing him as captain surely reduces some pressure on Rassie to get the numbers right. One Siya as captain is surely worth two maybe three POC credits. Sad but true. All players of colour are there on merit but getting the makeup right in the starting 15 or 23 is not always possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:53 am 
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Kwagga and Marx teach Boks how to 'steal'


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:21 am 
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Jensrsa wrote:

:thumbup:

Both had a very good test last weekend...our top forwards


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:28 am 
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Jensrsa wrote:


Check the thighs on Beach Muscles as he hitches up his shorts! Sexy.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:44 am 
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Wouldn't mind an avatar if people are making them for supporterd.. And if I've enough posts for one :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:45 am 
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TheSmurf wrote:
Wouldn't mind an avatar if people are making them for supporterd.. And if I've enough posts for one :thumbup:


Sure, who do you like? Sards will kindly set one up for you....


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:31 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
TheSmurf wrote:
Wouldn't mind an avatar if people are making them for supporterd.. And if I've enough posts for one :thumbup:


Sure, who do you like? Sards will kindly set one up for you....

Nah Average Joe doen dit vir breakfast. As jy mooi vra anders vokof nOOp!


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:24 pm 
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OomPB wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
TheSmurf wrote:
Wouldn't mind an avatar if people are making them for supporterd.. And if I've enough posts for one :thumbup:


Sure, who do you like? Sards will kindly set one up for you....

Nah Average Joe doen dit vir breakfast. As jy mooi vra anders vokof nOOp!

This AJ's are better quality and don't need resizing either. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Average Joe wrote:
Image


That's poop. Give him Malherbe :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:28 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
OomPB wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
TheSmurf wrote:
Wouldn't mind an avatar if people are making them for supporterd.. And if I've enough posts for one :thumbup:


Sure, who do you like? Sards will kindly set one up for you....

Nah Average Joe doen dit vir breakfast. As jy mooi vra anders vokof nOOp!

This AJ's are better quality and don't need resizing either. :thumbup:


just fokof you tool...in all the years you have done fokol but bitch about everyone else AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the Saffers on the forum...I have always initiated these kind of programmes...I have no issue if AJ does it all going forward ....its doing me a favour...9 am done dealing with spoilt little brats


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:04 pm 
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I would really like Galant if he is still available


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:

That's poop. Give him Malherbe :thumbup:

It was meant to be kak. If he gives me a name I'll make him a proper one.

@ Sards and yank. No need to fight ladies I do it cause I have some time now to fok around. I usually don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:13 pm 
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Average Joe wrote:
@ Sards and yank. No need to fight ladies

Kan die twee nie net n soort van vredes ooreenkoms bereik nie? Ek weet ons boere vok mekaar op maar twee sout piele?


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:22 pm 
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Cartman wrote:
I would really like Galant if he is still available

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:26 pm 
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sunnybanana wrote:
At his best, Kolisi is an excellent player. It’s just unfortunate that he hasn’t often reached those heights since taking on the captaincy. Hopefully this period out of the game will be good for him.
He will captain the side if fit so we all want him to do well.


That is a very reasonable and on the money comment and yes, when he plays well he is very good. In some recent Bok games he has looked tired and a little out of sorts. As a captain I believe he is a unifying leader and (most of) the players all look up to him. He is a fantastic human being. We have a lot of talent in the position and he may not be the best player in that position, particularly depending on who the opposition is.

When I see comments such as "Kolisi is an exceedingly average player and captain",I dont take them as serious rugby comments but a (biased) opinion. Siya has won MOM awards, not something an "average" player achieves.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks 2019 RWC fred
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Average Joe wrote:
Cartman wrote:
I would really like Galant if he is still available

Image

Thanks a lot :thumbup:


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