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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:43 am 
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Thinking about Ethan Blackadder's form and potential got me wondering if there are any father/son rugby players in which the son surpassed his father, limited to test rugby.

The first to spring to mind is Archie/Fergie McCormick. Archie was a hooker in the 20s but never a real star whereas Fergie was one of the best fullbacks at provincial and national level.

Frank/Anton Oliver I would put at pretty much equal.


Last edited by Kiwias on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 am 
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Derek Quinnell, Scot.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:46 am 
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I read O'Driscoll's father played for Ireland twice, so there's one obvious example.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:47 am 
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Andy/Chris Farrell


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:48 am 
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Unless there's a requirement for both to have played test rugby, this will be a very long list


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:49 am 
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^Yep. The Barretts


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:51 am 
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Billy and Mako Vunipola better than father Fe'ao who captained Tonga.
Taulupe Faletau better than Kuli (Tonga)
Toutai Kefu > Fatai (Tonga)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:53 am 
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Never saw him play, but I'm going to go ahead and assume Brian Fitzpatrick wasn't as good as Sean.

Likewise, never saw Graham Mexted play but I'm assuming Murray was better.

And I was just perusing a list of NZ test relatives, I had no idea that John Ashworth was Brodie Retallick's uncle.


Last edited by Jay Cee Gee on Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:53 am 
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Is Portia Woodman relatively better than her father?


Last edited by BBB on Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am 
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Schalk Burger jr > Sr - Saffas need confirm.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:54 am 
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Will Greenwood's Dad had 5 caps, never saw him play but I'm assuming his British Lion son is better.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:59 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy and Mako Vunipola better than father Fe'ao who captained Tonga.
Taulupe Faletau better than Kuli (Tonga)
Toutai Kefu > Fatai (Tonga)

Maybe Tonga was rubbish at improving and getting the best out of players?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 am 
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Ben Youngs better than Nick Youngs

No, wait...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Unless there's a requirement for both to have played test rugby, this will be a very long list


Good point at added to title and OP.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 am 
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Aurelien Rougerie better than Jacques Rougerie

Jean Baptiste Ellissalde better than Jean Pierre Ellisalde


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:04 am 
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Obviously Owen Farrell has had a better union career than Andy already. Going to be difficult for OF to attain the same legendary status in his sport as his dad, though (played league for his country as 16, ffs!)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:15 am 
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Winnie wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy and Mako Vunipola better than father Fe'ao who captained Tonga.
Taulupe Faletau better than Kuli (Tonga)
Toutai Kefu > Fatai (Tonga)

Maybe Tonga was rubbish at improving and getting the best out of players?

Yes but it's not the whole reason. The younger generation of this list are athletically superior.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:16 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Unless there's a requirement for both to have played test rugby, this will be a very long list


Good point at added to title and OP.

It assumed that was the case.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:27 am 
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Joost wrote:
Obviously Owen Farrell has had a better union career than Andy already. Going to be difficult for OF to attain the same legendary status in his sport as his dad, though (played league for his country as 16, ffs!)

I don't know that much about RL, but I do think Farrell the younger is on his way to legendary RU status.

He's 27 with 800 test points, 71 test caps, 2-time 6N winner (1 GS), 2 time British Lion, 2 time European Cup winner, 4 time Prem winner, European player of the year, and 3-time nominee for World Player of the Year.

Another 5 years of that, and he should be well set.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:29 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Winnie wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy and Mako Vunipola better than father Fe'ao who captained Tonga.
Taulupe Faletau better than Kuli (Tonga)
Toutai Kefu > Fatai (Tonga)

Maybe Tonga was rubbish at improving and getting the best out of players?

Yes but it's not the whole reason. The younger generation of this list are athletically superior.

Training and diet are now superior
Might as well bin the whole thread


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:39 am 
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Gordon Wood’s 29 caps for Ireland and 2 for the Lions, when adjusted for inflation, would be only slightly behind his son Keith’s 58 and 5 respectively.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:40 am 
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Winnie wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Winnie wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy and Mako Vunipola better than father Fe'ao who captained Tonga.
Taulupe Faletau better than Kuli (Tonga)
Toutai Kefu > Fatai (Tonga)

Maybe Tonga was rubbish at improving and getting the best out of players?

Yes but it's not the whole reason. The younger generation of this list are athletically superior.

Training and diet are now superior
Might as well bin the whole thread

Or we could just play along and stop being cvnts.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:47 am 
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Winnie wrote:
Training and diet are now superior
Might as well bin the whole thread


Yes, that would explain why Paul Williams was so much better a player than his dad.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:47 am 
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BBB wrote:
Is Portia Woodman relatively better than her father?



Interesting one. Against most women's teams she will run them off the ground. I've not seen her have a really good game against England France yet who are the only teams I'd consider equivalent to a good tier one side in men's in Rugby right now (Canada and Ireland had brief flirtations 4 or 5 years ago). But no doubting her 7's career is top notch however.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:51 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Winnie wrote:
Training and diet are now superior
Might as well bin the whole thread


Yes, that would explain why Paul Williams was so much better a player than his dad.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Or Fergie’s son Andrew, amongst many others.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:04 am 
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I think I read somewhere that Sean Fitzpatrick’s father (Brian?) was an All Black. I have no idea of Brian’s abilty as a player, but assuming due Sean’s status as an all time great that they’d fall into that category.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:11 am 
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Shaun and Mitch Marsh.

Oh wait.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:11 am 
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Keith Woods dad Gordon. Ireland and Lions both. Tough call as i never saw him and he was a prop, so any fat tourist...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:13 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
Joost wrote:
Obviously Owen Farrell has had a better union career than Andy already. Going to be difficult for OF to attain the same legendary status in his sport as his dad, though (played league for his country as 16, ffs!)

I don't know that much about RL, but I do think Farrell the younger is on his way to legendary RU status.

He's 27 with 800 test points, 71 test caps, 2-time 6N winner (1 GS), 2 time British Lion, 2 time European Cup winner, 4 time Prem winner, European player of the year, and 3-time nominee for World Player of the Year.

Another 5 years of that, and he should be well set.


For all I'm loath to ever credit members of a Wigan team, Andy Farrell is rightly regarded as one of the greatest British players of all time and would walk into any dream GB 13. The fact that he played every position for Wigan from stand off to prop during his career (though was best at loose forward), was the youngest player to win a challenge cup and was captain from the age of 21 make him a true club legend. He won everything at club level, beating the aussies in the world club challenge, then went on and became the talisman of the GB team, regularly keeping the great Paul Sculthorpe out the side.

Owen's good, but if you were naming a dream England XV, Johnny Wilkinson would be ahead of him on the team sheet. He won't surpass the, admittedly relative, talismanic status of his father.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:29 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Winnie wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Winnie wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy and Mako Vunipola better than father Fe'ao who captained Tonga.
Taulupe Faletau better than Kuli (Tonga)
Toutai Kefu > Fatai (Tonga)

Maybe Tonga was rubbish at improving and getting the best out of players?

Yes but it's not the whole reason. The younger generation of this list are athletically superior.

Training and diet are now superior
Might as well bin the whole thread

Or we could just play along and stop being cvnts.

I suppose if you give a monkey a toy its happy for hours

And as I said before diet, nutrition and facilities are light years apart.
Pitches are better, what was the opposition like years earlier, what were the players in the same team like years earlier.
As an example, if Sergio Parisse has a son and he is lucky to be playing in the golden generation of Italian rugby that wins the odd time will that make him a better player than his father? Or if he is world class in a time when Italy produces 3 other world class backrow forwards thus restricting his appearance numbers, does that make him worse than his dad?

Daft thread


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:30 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Thinking about Ethan Blackadder's form and potential got me wondering if there are any father/son rugby players in which the son surpassed his father, limited to test rugby.

The first to spring to mind is Archie/Fergie McCormick. Archie was a hooker in the 20s but never a real star whereas Fergie was one of the best fullbacks at provincial and national level.

Frank/Anton Oliver I would put at pretty much equal.


I think we can safely assume that Sir Colin was certainly better than his son Glynn...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:40 am 
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You would think that Luke Fitzgerald would just shade his old man Des due to a Lions cap.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:48 am 
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crash 669 wrote:
Owen's good, but if you were naming a dream England XV, Johnny Wilkinson would be ahead of him on the team sheet. He won't surpass the, admittedly relative, talismanic status of his father.

I suspect he might slot in alongside him, Owen's basically only half-way through his test career (not arguing he'll be better than AF mind).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
Joost wrote:
Obviously Owen Farrell has had a better union career than Andy already. Going to be difficult for OF to attain the same legendary status in his sport as his dad, though (played league for his country as 16, ffs!)

I don't know that much about RL, but I do think Farrell the younger is on his way to legendary RU status.

He's 27 with 800 test points, 71 test caps, 2-time 6N winner (1 GS), 2 time British Lion, 2 time European Cup winner, 4 time Prem winner, European player of the year, and 3-time nominee for World Player of the Year.

Another 5 years of that, and he should be well set.


Yep better than his Dad at union for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Schalk Burger jr > Sr - Saffas need confirm.


I would say that is fair.

I've watched a couple of Snr's games on VHS and while he was a good player, Jnr was a much better player.

Crazy thing that Jnr's career happend by accident given the player he turned out to be.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:59 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
crash 669 wrote:
Owen's good, but if you were naming a dream England XV, Johnny Wilkinson would be ahead of him on the team sheet. He won't surpass the, admittedly relative, talismanic status of his father.

I suspect he might slot in alongside him, Owen's basically only half-way through his test career (not arguing he'll be better than AF mind).


:lol: lies lies lies and damn statistics.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:59 am 
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Question for the jocks:

Greg or Roy Laidlaw?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:01 am 
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haa Farrell overtaken Davies as the most common surname in pro rugby?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:03 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
crash 669 wrote:
Owen's good, but if you were naming a dream England XV, Johnny Wilkinson would be ahead of him on the team sheet. He won't surpass the, admittedly relative, talismanic status of his father.

I suspect he might slot in alongside him, Owen's basically only half-way through his test career (not arguing he'll be better than AF mind).


:uhoh: Are you suggesting at 12 or as an equal shout for 10? Because either would be wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:04 am 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
crash 669 wrote:
Owen's good, but if you were naming a dream England XV, Johnny Wilkinson would be ahead of him on the team sheet. He won't surpass the, admittedly relative, talismanic status of his father.

I suspect he might slot in alongside him, Owen's basically only half-way through his test career (not arguing he'll be better than AF mind).


lies lies lies and damn statistics.

Well it could be him, Will Carling or Will Greenwood. OF has had half his test career at 12.


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