Planet Rugby Forum

ManInTheBar wrote:Question for the jocks:

Greg or Roy Laidlaw?

I'll bite.....

They aren't father and son, Roy is Greigs Uncle. But Roy by a long, long way.

Dai Young > Thomas Young
Paul Moriarty = Ross Moriarty
Nigel Davies = Sam Davies

Apart from already mentioned DQ/SQ, that glorious Welsh team of the 70s produced no notable rugby playing offspring.

Jean-Luc du Preez > Robert du Preez Snr > Dan and Robert Jnr
Morne du Plessis > Felix du Plessis ? Both Bok captains
Ruan Pienaar < Gysie Pienaar - Father better than son
Flip van der Merwe > Flippie van der Merwe
Wikus van Heerden > Moaner van Heerden
Uli Schmidt > Louis Schmidt

Winnie wrote: And as I said before diet, nutrition and facilities are light years apart.
Pitches are better, what was the opposition like years earlier, what were the players in the same team like years earlier.
As an example, if Sergio Parisse has a son and he is lucky to be playing in the golden generation of Italian rugby that wins the odd time will that make him a better player than his father? Or if he is world class in a time when Italy produces 3 other world class backrow forwards thus restricting his appearance numbers, does that make him worse than his dad?

Daft thread

You've identified some of the factors we are all taking into account when considering our proposed players. Shame you think it is daft.

You see, the intent is not to compare father to son but to compare the performance of each relative to their contemporaries.

I wonder if the Tuilagi brothers’ dad was any good at rugby?!

Jensrsa wrote:Jean-Luc du Preez > Robert du Preez Snr > Dan and Robert Jnr
Morne du Plessis > Felix du Plessis ? Both Bok captains
Gysie Pienaar > Ruan Pienaar- Father better than son
Flip van der Merwe > Flippie van der Merwe
Wikus van Heerden > Moaner van Heerden
Uli Schmidt > Louis Schmidt

All listed in father --> son order?

Kiwias wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Jean-Luc du Preez > Robert du Preez Snr > Dan and Robert Jnr
Morne du Plessis > Felix du Plessis ? Both Bok captains
Ruan Pienaar < Gysie Pienaar - Father better than son Fixed
Flip van der Merwe > Flippie van der Merwe
Wikus van Heerden > Moaner van Heerden
Uli Schmidt > Louis Schmidt

All listed in father --> son order?

Son ---> Father order, except for du Preez Son--> Father--> Sons

Jensrsa wrote:

Kiwias wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Jean-Luc du Preez > Robert du Preez Snr > Dan and Robert Jnr
Morne du Plessis > Felix du Plessis ? Both Bok captains
Ruan Pienaar < Gysie Pienaar - Father better than son Fixed
Flip van der Merwe > Flippie van der Merwe
Wikus van Heerden > Moaner van Heerden
Uli Schmidt > Louis Schmidt

All listed in father --> son order?

Son ---> Father order, except for du Preez Son--> Father--> Sons

Got it.

Shaun Pollock > Peter Pollock

If we are going to include cricket, then the first one must be Sir Richard Hadlee > Walter Hadlee

Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

Luke Fitz wasn't better than his old man Des, IMHO, although harder to compare so wildly different positions.

Anthony Foley over his dad, Brendan, is clearcut I think.

Kiwias wrote:If we are going to include cricket, then the first one must be Sir Richard Hadlee > Walter Hadlee

Grandfathers too - Dennis Compton >>>>>>>>> Nick Compton

Stuart Broad demolishes his dad.

So to Alec Stewart.

etherman wrote:

Kiwias wrote:If we are going to include cricket, then the first one must be Sir Richard Hadlee > Walter Hadlee

Grandfathers too - Dennis Compton >>>>>>>>> Nick Compton

Stuart Broad demolishes his dad.

So to Alec Stewart.

But Colin > Christopher Cowdrey

(and I liked Broad pere who was a rock at a time when most of our batsmen resembled quicksand)

eldanielfire wrote:

BBB wrote:Is Portia Woodman relatively better than her father?

Interesting one. Against most women's teams she will run them off the ground. I've not seen her have a really good game against England France yet who are the only teams I'd consider equivalent to a good tier one side in men's in Rugby right now (Canada and Ireland had brief flirtations 4 or 5 years ago). But no doubting her 7's career is top notch however.

Sure mate, keep drinking the cool aid

Sean Fitzpatrick would seem the obvious one.

Jensrsa wrote:

Kiwias wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Jean-Luc du Preez > Robert du Preez Snr > Dan and Robert Jnr
Morne du Plessis > Felix du Plessis ? Both Bok captains
Ruan Pienaar < Gysie Pienaar - Father better than son Fixed
Flip van der Merwe > Flippie van der Merwe
Wikus van Heerden > Moaner van Heerden
Uli Schmidt > Louis Schmidt

All listed in father --> son order?

Son ---> Father order, except for du Preez Son--> Father--> Sons

Antonie Claasen < Wynand Claasen

I read recently that Cobus Reinach’s old man was a gun player.

Rugby2023 wrote:I read O'Driscoll's father played for Ireland twice, so there's one obvious example.

2 games against Argentina, but test caps weren't awarded

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

Brumby_in_Vic wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:

Kiwias wrote:

Jensrsa wrote:Jean-Luc du Preez > Robert du Preez Snr > Dan and Robert Jnr
Morne du Plessis > Felix du Plessis ? Both Bok captains
Ruan Pienaar < Gysie Pienaar - Father better than son Fixed
Flip van der Merwe > Flippie van der Merwe
Wikus van Heerden > Moaner van Heerden
Uli Schmidt > Louis Schmidt

All listed in father --> son order?

Son ---> Father order, except for du Preez Son--> Father--> Sons

Antonie Claasen < Wynand Claasen

I read recently that Cobus Reinach’s old man was a gun player.

Jaco was SA 400m champion but only got limited play at the Boks during the boycott years

Jensrsa wrote:Jaco was SA 400m champion but only got limited play at the Boks during the boycott years

That being said, it is quite difficult for me to rate them against one another as I don't particularly rate either.

Granted I've only ever seen about 6 or so matches that Jaco played in, I'd rate him and Cobus as about the same? Neither was notably better than the other and, while both were capped as Boks, neither would feature in the Top 10 of their respective positions.

ManInTheBar wrote:

etherman wrote:

Kiwias wrote:If we are going to include cricket, then the first one must be Sir Richard Hadlee > Walter Hadlee

Grandfathers too - Dennis Compton >>>>>>>>> Nick Compton

Stuart Broad demolishes his dad.

So to Alec Stewart.

But Colin > Christopher Cowdrey

(and I liked Broad pere who was a rock at a time when most of our batsmen resembled quicksand)

Colin was the better batsman, but Chris the better bowler. There are three generations of D'Olivieras to sort out, but I don't think anyone can hold a torch to Basil though. There were seven Foster brothers played for Worcestershire at one time, but not aware of any sons doing anything special. RE Foster scored 287* against the Crims which was at the time the highest test score.

Boxcar Ira wrote:

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

In the same vein, I’m surprised this thread has got this far without someone pointing out how much better than any other flanker to lace up pair of boots Ger Earls was, and he should’ve had a million Lions caps only the irfu didn’t like Limerick lads.

Fenman wrote:

ManInTheBar wrote:

etherman wrote:

Kiwias wrote:If we are going to include cricket, then the first one must be Sir Richard Hadlee > Walter Hadlee

Grandfathers too - Dennis Compton >>>>>>>>> Nick Compton

Stuart Broad demolishes his dad.

So to Alec Stewart.

But Colin > Christopher Cowdrey

(and I liked Broad pere who was a rock at a time when most of our batsmen resembled quicksand)

Colin was the better batsman, but Chris the better bowler. There are three generations of D'Olivieras to sort out, but I don't think anyone can hold a torch to Basil though. There were seven Foster brothers played for Worcestershire at one time, but not aware of any sons doing anything special. RE Foster scored 287* against the Crims which was at the time the highest test score.

Colin was a better batsman than Christopher was a bowler - 7,642 runs @ 44 (which was good at the time!)

Could have a debate on whether Lionel Tennyson was a better cricket than his Grandad was a poet if you like That'd wind Winnie up

DOB wrote:

Boxcar Ira wrote:

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

In the same vein, I’m surprised this thread has got this far without someone pointing out how much better than any other flanker to lace up pair of boots Ger Earls was, and he should’ve had a million Lions caps only the irfu didn’t like Limerick lads.

Did you see Ger Earls play? He was a superb player.

DOB wrote:

Boxcar Ira wrote:

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

In the same vein, I’m surprised this thread has got this far without someone pointing out how much better than any other flanker to lace up pair of boots Ger Earls was, and he should’ve had a million Lions caps only the irfu didn’t like Limerick lads.

we all had a chat and decided to not bring it up, because the thread is about players that have been capped and we're sticklers for the internet rules.

Rugby2023 wrote:I don't know that much about RL, but I do think Farrell the younger is on his way to legendary RU status.

He's 27 with 800 test points, 71 test caps, 2-time 6N winner (1 GS), 2 time British Lion, 2 time European Cup winner, 4 time Prem winner, European player of the year, and 3-time nominee for World Player of the Year.

Another 5 years of that, and he should be well set.

agreed. But it'll be a bored FACT that he'll always be 'military medium'

crash 669 wrote:Owen's good, but if you were naming a dream England XV, Johnny Wilkinson would be ahead of him on the team sheet.

Right now, maybe, but it's not impossible that, by the end of his career, Owen will be far more decorated than St. Jonny and should be in that XV

Mr. Very Popular wrote:

DOB wrote:

Boxcar Ira wrote:

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

In the same vein, I’m surprised this thread has got this far without someone pointing out how much better than any other flanker to lace up pair of boots Ger Earls was, and he should’ve had a million Lions caps only the irfu didn’t like Limerick lads.

we all had a chat and decided to not bring it up, because the thread is about players that have been capped and we're sticklers for the internet rules.

Oh good. It’s just I could see the vein bulging out from under Zappa’s scarf, and I knew he wanted to tear into the thread.

Petrus wrote:Jean Baptiste Ellissalde better than Jean Pierre Ellisalde

Father much nicer bloke.....

Penaud Jr is a heap better than his father.

Mr. Very Popular wrote:

DOB wrote:

Boxcar Ira wrote:

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

In the same vein, I’m surprised this thread has got this far without someone pointing out how much better than any other flanker to lace up pair of boots Ger Earls was, and he should’ve had a million Lions caps only the irfu didn’t like Limerick lads.

we all had a chat and decided to not bring it up, because the thread is about players that have been capped and we're sticklers for the internet rules.

I suppose that rules out Stefan terblanche

Steamin Beamin wrote:

ManInTheBar wrote:Question for the jocks:

Greg or Roy Laidlaw?

I'll bite.....

They aren't father and son, Roy is Greigs Uncle. But Roy by a long, long way.

Roy Laidlaw is a Scotland legend. Greig is a good player but he'll never be at that level.

Here's an interesting one: Andy or John Leslie? Andy captained the ABs, John won the last 5N title with Scotland.

It'll be interesting to see how few of the lads coming through care. Redpath, Hastings, sleighthome, mallinder etc.

Here's an interesting one: Andy or John Leslie? Andy captained the ABs, John won the last 5N title with Scotland.

The obvious answer is that if John (or Martin, for that matter) was as good as his oul lad, he would’ve played for New Zealand.

I say that as a fan of John who thought he was better at test level than some of the 12s that did turn out for the ABs in that period.

ManInTheBar wrote:

Fenman wrote:

ManInTheBar wrote:

etherman wrote:

Kiwias wrote:If we are going to include cricket, then the first one must be Sir Richard Hadlee > Walter Hadlee

Grandfathers too - Dennis Compton >>>>>>>>> Nick Compton

Stuart Broad demolishes his dad.

So to Alec Stewart.

But Colin > Christopher Cowdrey

(and I liked Broad pere who was a rock at a time when most of our batsmen resembled quicksand)

Colin was the better batsman, but Chris the better bowler. There are three generations of D'Olivieras to sort out, but I don't think anyone can hold a torch to Basil though. There were seven Foster brothers played for Worcestershire at one time, but not aware of any sons doing anything special. RE Foster scored 287* against the Crims which was at the time the highest test score.

Colin was a better batsman than Christopher was a bowler - 7,642 runs @ 44 (which was good at the time!)

Could have a debate on whether Lionel Tennyson was a better cricket than his Grandad was a poet if you like That'd wind Winnie up

Colin Cowdrey was a record-breaking test batsmen, Chris was a good county championship all-rounder. No comparison in terms of achievement or ability.

DOB wrote:

Here's an interesting one: Andy or John Leslie? Andy captained the ABs, John won the last 5N title with Scotland.

The obvious answer is that if John (or Martin, for that matter) was as good as his oul lad, he would’ve played for New Zealand.

I say that as a fan of John who thought he was better at test level than some of the 12s that did turn out for the ABs in that period.

Obvious, but not necessarily 100% accurate. Sometimes players get bored waiting in line behind the established guys in their position, and look elsewhere. Doesn’t necessarily mean they are worse players (though I accept that most of the time they will be or they’d have broken through)

Juan Imhoff has been amongst the best wingers over the past decade and has had a consistent trajectory for Los Pumas until the infamous 2015 decission not to call up the "europeans" any more.

His father, José Luis Imhoff was a standout flanker in the 1965 Pumas tour of South Africa - where the "Pumas" name was born - that included the victory over the Junior Springboks, which was the only one of the kind until 2015 (when the son scored the first ever test hat-trick by any player against the Boks). The father was also three times Pumas' Head Coach, but never got close to being the player his son is.

Joost wrote:I wonder if the Tuilagi brothers’ dad was any good at rugby?!

Nope. He was a politician and then ummm disgraced himself when he got sent to jail for sexual assault later in life.



Anyway, Peter Fatialofa was light years ahead of his son, Jeremiah - who was a bit of a dick on the field.

DOB wrote:

Boxcar Ira wrote:

redderneck wrote:Based on my Dad and his brother who watched plenty of both Gordon and Keith Wood, and indeed played with/against the former, Wood Snr. was the better of the two. No reason to doubt them.

That's such an oul lad thing to say though. There's no way Wood Snr could have been better than one of Irelands greatest ever players

In the same vein, I’m surprised this thread has got this far without someone pointing out how much better than any other flanker to lace up pair of boots Ger Earls was, and he should’ve had a million Lions caps only the irfu didn’t like Limerick lads.

That and Keet is shite

So strong case

juddy wrote:

ManInTheBar wrote: Colin was a better batsman than Christopher was a bowler - 7,642 runs @ 44 (which was good at the time!)

Could have a debate on whether Lionel Tennyson was a better cricket than his Grandad was a poet if you like That'd wind Winnie up

Colin Cowdrey was a record-breaking test batsmen, Chris was a good county championship all-rounder. No comparison in terms of achievement or ability.

Absolutely. Colin Cowdrey was class epitomised.

DOB wrote:

Here's an interesting one: Andy or John Leslie? Andy captained the ABs, John won the last 5N title with Scotland.

The obvious answer is that if John (or Martin, for that matter) was as good as his oul lad, he would’ve played for New Zealand.

I say that as a fan of John who thought he was better at test level than some of the 12s that did turn out for the ABs in that period.

Agreed. I daresay if he had been just a little more patient, he would have had his turn too.

LandOTurk wrote:Dai Young > Thomas Young
Paul Moriarty = Ross Moriarty
Nigel Davies = Sam Davies

Apart from already mentioned DQ/SQ, that glorious Welsh team of the 70s produced no notable rugby playing offspring.

Not strictly true. Jim Shanklin got a few caps in the early 70's, his son Tom being one of the most capped Welsh centres. (and Alfie lookalike!)