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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:05 am 
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... four-weeks

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Tanielu Tele'a has been suspended from Super Rugby following his red card against the Stormers on Saturday.

The Blues winger, 20, was red-carded in the 69th minute of his side's win 24-9 in Auckland after being deemed at fault in a collision with air-borne opposite Dillyn Leyds.

He admitted a charge of tackling a player off the ground and is banned for four weeks, up to and including May 4, Sanzaar said in a statement following Monday night's hearing.


​Sanzaar's Foul Play Review Committee found the act warranted a suspension of eight weeks, but that was cut in half thanks to his good record, as well as his guilty plea.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:07 am 
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Eh, the article you posted says 4 weeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:07 am 
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Harsh, IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:10 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Eh,



Back away, imposter.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:16 am 
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It was an ugly incident.

Deserved a long ban, as rather than him being in the wrong place unaware of Leyds jumping for the ball, it looked to me like he actively raised his arms to hit him mid air. Deserves a long break IMO, as Leyds could have doid.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:25 am 
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Zakar wrote:
It was an ugly incident.

Deserved a long ban, as rather than him being in the wrong place unaware of Leyds jumping for the ball, it looked to me like he actively raised his arms to hit him mid air. Deserves a long break IMO, as Leyds could have doid.


I think the raising of the arms was instinctive & didn't contribute in anyway to the danger of the situation. If anything he looked like he was trying to grab him once he'd realised his mistake, but hey ho.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:27 am 
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Poor kid, looked like he recognised he couldn't compete but then froze up with no idea what to do in that split second ending up clumsily grasping at the player. Instincts kick in at that speed and the instinct is not to dive/pull out of the way.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:43 am 
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If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:15 am 
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Wow. Red card, sure, but a ban as well?

We was going for the ball, realised late he wasn't going to get to it, Stormer jumped over him, instinctively he put his arms up.... It was accidental. What else could have have done? Even if he hadn't thrown his arms up, the clash would have been just as bad. Struggling to see how a red card was not deemed to be punishment enough.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:27 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


Half of me says a 4 week ban is the right incentive to make sure players develop the skills they need to compete safely.
The other seven eights says poor bastard, no way was he trying to tip the guy up, that's a really harsh penalty for no intent.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:28 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
Wow. Red card, sure, but a ban as well?

We was going for the ball, realised late he wasn't going to get to it, Stormer jumped over him, instinctively he put his arms up.... It was accidental. What else could have have done? Even if he hadn't thrown his arms up, the clash would have been just as bad. Struggling to see how a red card was not deemed to be punishment enough.


Agreed, seems harsh. Very similar incident in the Super Rugby final in 2017 when the Lions player was red carded. The on field red seems like punishment enough but I guess they are trying to stamp this sort of thing out with these harsh penalties.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:33 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
It was an ugly incident.

Deserved a long ban, as rather than him being in the wrong place unaware of Leyds jumping for the ball, it looked to me like he actively raised his arms to hit him mid air. Deserves a long break IMO, as Leyds could have doid.


I think the raising of the arms was instinctive & didn't contribute in anyway to the danger of the situation. If anything he looked like he was trying to grab him once he'd realised his mistake, but hey ho.


Could be, hard to guess intent based in a replay. In any event, he pled guilty for tackling a player in the air. That's our best source for understanding what happened.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:44 am 
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Now that I have your attention through the use of a ridiculous thread title, why do you think it is that WR are clamping down so hard on an admittedly potentially dangerous action while continuing to turn a blind eye to bodies flying into rucks in clear conflict with the Laws of the game?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:52 am 
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merlin the happy pig wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


Half of me says a 4 week ban is the right incentive to make sure players develop the skills they need to compete safely.
The other seven eights says poor bastard, no way was he trying to tip the guy up, that's a really harsh penalty for no intent.

This. High ball contests is now about jumping forward rather than properly contesting. You can be completely reckless at jumping but as long as you catch the ball and don't accidentally kick the defender you're fine.

So many of these incidents see the ball catcher jump forward into the space.

I wonder if there should only be a vertical leap law, because as it currently stands we could have a guy standing right under where the ball would land and get jumped into by an attacker he's unaware of because he's got his eye on the ball and if the attacker catches the ball and topples to the ground the defender who is just standing there will get carded. If the defender puts his hands up in a reactionary to move protect himself than he'll likely get a rest for a few weeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:57 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Now that I have your attention through the use of a ridiculous thread title, why do you think it is that WR are clamping down so hard on an admittedly potentially dangerous action while continuing to turn a blind eye to bodies flying into rucks in clear conflict with the Laws of the game?


I dunno. Jesus?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:01 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


Half of me says a 4 week ban is the right incentive to make sure players develop the skills they need to compete safely.
The other seven eights says poor bastard, no way was he trying to tip the guy up, that's a really harsh penalty for no intent.

This. High ball contests is now about jumping forward rather than properly contesting. You can be completely reckless at jumping but as long as you catch the ball and don't accidentally kick the defender you're fine.

So many of these incidents see the ball catcher jump forward into the space.

I wonder if there should only be a vertical leap law, because as it currently stands we could have a guy standing right under where the ball would land and get jumped into by an attacker he's unaware of because he's got his eye on the ball and if the attacker catches the ball and topples to the ground the defender who is just standing there will get carded. If the defender puts his hands up in a reactionary to move protect himself than he'll likely get a rest for a few weeks.


Yeah. In this case, my first thought was the guy making the situation dangerous was the player jumping. He jumped from a long way back, collecting the Chiefs shoulder through his trajectory.

A vertical jump requirement does seem like a sensible answer to this.

Imagine if the jumping players knee knocked the other guy out cold. The concussed guy would probably still go to the bin under the current laws.


Last edited by Sensible Stephen on Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:01 am 
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I still have a problem with this thread title. It got my heart going.

Given I was swearing at the laptop when he did it, 4 weeks is a bit harsh but probably in line with this kind of thing. Clearly didn't have a clue what to do when he realised he was beaten to the ball. He is young and with a bit of training, he will recognise that when he is too far away he is better not to run faster to make up for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:22 am 
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Eight weeks (before the discount) is in line with similar offences recently, isn't it?

Hard to complain, every player should know to keep their noses as clean as possible under the high ball by now. Safest tactic there is to just let Leyd's land then smash him into touch - though Tele'a must have been surprised by just how much air he got, that was quite a leap.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:46 am 
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Is Leyds injured?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:12 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


Half of me says a 4 week ban is the right incentive to make sure players develop the skills they need to compete safely.
The other seven eights says poor bastard, no way was he trying to tip the guy up, that's a really harsh penalty for no intent.

This. High ball contests is now about jumping forward rather than properly contesting. You can be completely reckless at jumping but as long as you catch the ball and don't accidentally kick the defender you're fine.

So many of these incidents see the ball catcher jump forward into the space.

I wonder if there should only be a vertical leap law, because as it currently stands we could have a guy standing right under where the ball would land and get jumped into by an attacker he's unaware of because he's got his eye on the ball and if the attacker catches the ball and topples to the ground the defender who is just standing there will get carded. If the defender puts his hands up in a reactionary to move protect himself than he'll likely get a rest for a few weeks.



I tried to argue exactly that line last time there was a shitfight over this sort of penalty and got shouted down. The Irish start yelling about AFL and the English get very rigid about the philtrum.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:24 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


Half of me says a 4 week ban is the right incentive to make sure players develop the skills they need to compete safely.
The other seven eights says poor bastard, no way was he trying to tip the guy up, that's a really harsh penalty for no intent.

This. High ball contests is now about jumping forward rather than properly contesting. You can be completely reckless at jumping but as long as you catch the ball and don't accidentally kick the defender you're fine.

So many of these incidents see the ball catcher jump forward into the space.

I wonder if there should only be a vertical leap law, because as it currently stands we could have a guy standing right under where the ball would land and get jumped into by an attacker he's unaware of because he's got his eye on the ball and if the attacker catches the ball and topples to the ground the defender who is just standing there will get carded. If the defender puts his hands up in a reactionary to move protect himself than he'll likely get a rest for a few weeks.


Yeah. In this case, my first thought was the guy making the situation dangerous was the player jumping. He jumped from a long way back, collecting the Chiefs shoulder through his trajectory.

A vertical jump requirement does seem like a sensible answer to this.

Imagine if the jumping players knee knocked the other guy out cold. The concussed guy would probably still go to the bin under the current laws.


Penalising those with no peripheral vision. I can live with that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:32 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
If I were a Blues supporter I would be hoping he spends 8 weeks learning how to challenge for a high ball


Half of me says a 4 week ban is the right incentive to make sure players develop the skills they need to compete safely.
The other seven eights says poor bastard, no way was he trying to tip the guy up, that's a really harsh penalty for no intent.

This. High ball contests is now about jumping forward rather than properly contesting. You can be completely reckless at jumping but as long as you catch the ball and don't accidentally kick the defender you're fine.

So many of these incidents see the ball catcher jump forward into the space.

I wonder if there should only be a vertical leap law, because as it currently stands we could have a guy standing right under where the ball would land and get jumped into by an attacker he's unaware of because he's got his eye on the ball and if the attacker catches the ball and topples to the ground the defender who is just standing there will get carded. If the defender puts his hands up in a reactionary to move protect himself than he'll likely get a rest for a few weeks.



I tried to argue exactly that line last time there was a shitfight over this sort of penalty and got shouted down. The Irish start yelling about AFL and the English get very rigid about the philtrum.


Wasn't that a shit-show.

Pasty skinned driveway concreter standing under the ball, being held aloft by some weak-armed knacker gets clattered into by a man, nay Greek God, who is competing for the ball and whose arm brushes the chest of pasty skinned driveway concreter who falls to the ground due to inability to stay aloft (see weak-armed knacker) and then gets a yellow card.

If I had no self-preservation mechanism I'd be flying into every aerial contest at high speed hoping to get flipped on my noggin. I honestly don't know what the solution is.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:00 am 
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If he didn't put his arms up he would have copped a boot or knee to the face. Its instinctive and he pulled up as soon as he realised he was unable to challenge. But the collision was inevitable so a red card was justified. 8 weeks seems very harsh as there was no intent to harm, only self preservation.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:28 am 
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No problem with the card nor the punishment.

Guy - as for your ulterior motive, I’d say one infringement at a time


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:33 am 
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Do you mean my reference to flying into rucks, HK?

I didn't mean to suggest an ulterior motive, more of the sort of inconsistency we see some complain of so often. Both are dangerous acts and the Laws around the ruck are very specific... for all the talk of changes to how we allow play there we already have sound definitions to control the actions of players.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:38 am 
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Defender who is under the ball should have all rights to be left to a clean catch. Anything else is asking for somebody to get badly hurt. same should apply at restarts with catchers and lifters. The attacking player is bringing all the danger with his forward speed so should asses the safety of HIS actions before he commits.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:44 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
If he didn't put his arms up he would have copped a boot or knee to the face. Its instinctive and he pulled up as soon as he realised he was unable to challenge. But the collision was inevitable so a red card was justified. 8 weeks seems very harsh as there was no intent to harm, only self preservation.


Could he not have ducked, or had a basic level of awareness of an oncoming player? He had to expect it would be contested based on where the kick was landing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:44 am 
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The laws are pretty black and white. But every situation is pretty grey. Jump the highest and you're all good. I really like uncle fucken bully's vertical jump requirement. Its not perfect, but it would be better than what we currently have.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:50 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Do you mean my reference to flying into rucks, HK?

I didn't mean to suggest an ulterior motive, more of the sort of inconsistency we see some complain of so often. Both are dangerous acts and the Laws around the ruck are very specific... for all the talk of changes to how we allow play there we already have sound definitions to control the actions of players.

sorry - bad choice of words - suffering jet lag. What I meant to imply is that WR appear to struggle with focusing on more than one area of law at one time.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:09 am 
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l coached Tanielu for a few years at school, he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. You can see that from his immediate reaction. 4 weeks is harsh but fair given the potential for serious injury. He won't make that same mistake again, smart player altogether.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:17 am 
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The sanction is too harsh given the facts of this incident


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am 
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blackblackblack wrote:
l coached Tanielu for a few years at school, he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. You can see that from his immediate reaction. 4 weeks is harsh but fair given the potential for serious injury. He won't make that same mistake again, smart player altogether.


I;mm sure that is true but until and unless players stop this type of dangerous play, the bans will continue to be as they are.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:26 am 
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Hong Kong wrote:
blackblackblack wrote:
l coached Tanielu for a few years at school, he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body. You can see that from his immediate reaction. 4 weeks is harsh but fair given the potential for serious injury. He won't make that same mistake again, smart player altogether.


I;mm sure that is true but until and unless players stop this type of dangerous play, the bans will continue to be as they are.

I think those that endanger themselves ought to shoulder some responsibilty for doing so. As it stands the law is lopsided in it's weighting.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:34 am 
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Zakar wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
If he didn't put his arms up he would have copped a boot or knee to the face. Its instinctive and he pulled up as soon as he realised he was unable to challenge. But the collision was inevitable so a red card was justified. 8 weeks seems very harsh as there was no intent to harm, only self preservation.


Could he not have ducked, or had a basic level of awareness of an oncoming player? He had to expect it would be contested based on where the kick was landing.

Indeed. I'm fine with bans for idiotic play like that. You can't run towards a high ball like a headless chicken with no awareness of play around you.

If a player uses his brain, he sees that he can't make it to contest, so he waits and tackles (or absolutely smashes) the player once he lands. Mindlessly running through the landing zone without a care in the world is dangerous, so he can have a few weeks to reflect on it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:53 am 
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It’s all a game of chance these days.
A red card lottery of sorts.
Intent is irrelevant, luck is the only factor.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:05 pm 
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Flametop wrote:
It’s all a game of chance these days.
A red card lottery of sorts.
Intent is irrelevant, luck is the only factor.

He wasn't unlucky to blindly blunder through the drop area from a high ball, completely ignoring the presence of anyone contesting the ball.
He was careless, and it could have resulted in serious injury. Red card is absolutely correct.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:01 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
cut in half thanks to his good record, as well as his guilty plea.


Quote:
Tanielu Tele'a banned for 3 games following dangerous tackle
June 06, 2018

New Zealand U20s centre Tanielu Tele'a has been banned for three games following his no-arms tackle on Ioan Nicholas in their match against Wales.

Telea was sent to the sin-bin for 10 minutes during the clash and has been subsequently banned for the rest of the World Rugby U20s tournament.


:?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:13 pm 
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Insane_Homer wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
cut in half thanks to his good record, as well as his guilty plea.


Quote:
Tanielu Tele'a banned for 3 games following dangerous tackle
June 06, 2018

New Zealand U20s centre Tanielu Tele'a has been banned for three games following his no-arms tackle on Ioan Nicholas in their match against Wales.

Telea was sent to the sin-bin for 10 minutes during the clash and has been subsequently banned for the rest of the World Rugby U20s tournament.


:?


But he doesn't have a malicious bone in his body...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:17 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
Now that I have your attention through the use of a ridiculous thread title, why do you think it is that WR are clamping down so hard on an admittedly potentially dangerous action while continuing to turn a blind eye to bodies flying into rucks in clear conflict with the Laws of the game?

Just in reference to that, Ireland flanker Dan Leavy is now out of the world cup because of exactly. Injuries are rumoured to be: "hammy and calf torn off bone ripped ACL, PCL, LCL, MCL, broken fibula". Who the fcuk knows how long the recovery (if possible) will be on that... All because of a body flying in to a ruck.

The video is out there but it ain't pretty (the TV broadcasters didn't even show any replays or any angle where it can be seen, it's that bad). In at the side off his feet dive to the ground misses the intended target who adjusts slightly and lands straight on the knee of a stationary, braced leg of another player, bending it the wrong way.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:35 pm 
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LeinsterLion wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Now that I have your attention through the use of a ridiculous thread title, why do you think it is that WR are clamping down so hard on an admittedly potentially dangerous action while continuing to turn a blind eye to bodies flying into rucks in clear conflict with the Laws of the game?

Just in reference to that, Ireland flanker Dan Leavy is now out of the world cup because of exactly. Injuries are rumoured to be: "hammy and calf torn off bone ripped ACL, PCL, LCL, MCL, broken fibula". Who the fcuk knows how long the recovery (if possible) will be on that... All because of a body flying in to a ruck.

The video is out there but it ain't pretty (the TV broadcasters didn't even show any replays or any angle where it can be seen, it's that bad). In at the side off his feet dive to the ground misses the intended target who adjusts slightly and lands straight on the knee of a stationary, braced leg of another player, bending it the wrong way.


I've just seen a gif of it on reddit...

it's not pretty, be warned.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/com ... amputated/


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