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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:35 pm 
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comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:38 pm 
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mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



I wonder if you would feel the same if your daughter was gay?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:50 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



I wonder if you would feel the same if your daughter was gay?


I would hope to bring up a child resilient enough to deal with the slings and arrows of modern life and not care what some rugby player thought of her sexuality


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:51 pm 
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_fatprop wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



I wonder if you would feel the same if your daughter was gay?


I would hope to bring up a child resilient enough to deal with the slings and arrows of modern life and not care what some rugby player thought of her sexuality


As would I. Now shall we get back to the point I was making?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:16 pm 
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mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:20 pm 
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_fatprop wrote:

I would hope to bring up a child resilient enough to deal with the slings and arrows of modern life and not care what some rugby player thought of her sexuality




Good luck. To turn things around, it reminds me a bit of a friend of mine (a staunch Christian) who told me that she fundamentally disagreed with my views about sexuality. At the time, she had three young daughters, the oldest was about 12.


I asked her what her attitude would be if one of them turned out to be same sex attracted. Sure enough, a decade on, one of them has come out. Their family relationships have survived, but the mother is a bit weepy about it all.


Some can survive the journey, but from what people like Ian Roberts say, some don't. No doubt parental guidance and nurturing are key factors, but I suspect that most kids are as heavily influenced by the environment around them as they are by the home environment.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:29 pm 
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comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


So what about All the other ideologies that have minority’s that swing to extremes.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:47 pm 
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Harveys wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


So what about All the other ideologies that have minority’s that swing to extremes.


Which ideologies do you have in mind? Outside of “religions”?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:50 pm 
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Is nationalism an ideology? Neoconservatism? Fascism?


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:56 pm 
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I find it interesting that some focus on whether Folau's individual view is what may hurt young people struggling with their sexuality. The main issue behind inclusivity (not just in rugby) is what we accept as a society. Casual bigotry has been around for a long time as people make racist jokes, sexist comments etc without really being either. (Most of us probably still do to a certain degree when in trusted company)

What's changed is people getting called out on sh-t which before would get a laugh, as society has realised how much damage these comments and stereotypes can have on people's lives, kids growing up and the encouragement of prejudice, even if they are 'harmless' jokes.

I think it's a massive statement from ARU to do what they have done, and it has a much wider impact than just their disagreement with Folau. It shows a much wider range of people how far reaching, what we accept nowadays, is. It shows that even hidden behind religion it's still 'not cool' and that the values they represent are of massive importance.

The voice of crowds getting vocal to other players who have backed up Folau is also telling. Hopefully it won't be long before it's as condemned as racism and sexism even if spouted as religious belief.


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Harveys wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Harveys wrote:
Ted. wrote:
What are you defending then.

Ok, I think I have it now, it's the Trumpianist's version of not defending religion?



No, no you don't.

The context of the post is clear, your choosing to misinterpret it is on you.


I'm quite happy with my reply.

I think it's probably the Petersonists TBF.



Meh, resorting to name calling, I will leave you guys to it. :thumbup:

No you wont, you'll avoid answering direct questions and then rejoin the thread a few pages later with the same shtick.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:20 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Harveys wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


So what about All the other ideologies that have minority’s that swing to extremes.


Which ideologies do you have in mind? Outside of “religions”?


You're smart enough to come up with a few I’m sure.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:21 am 
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comets wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:24 am 
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FB what specific question didn’t I answer? I’m pretty sure I was responding consistently to conversation in good faith, posters not posting in good faith I’m not all that interested in.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:26 am 
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Fark Israel Folau and the horse he rode in on. He said if he was at odds with the mantra of RA and he was seen to be damaging the image of the game he would walk away. Both of those are painstakingly obvious to all.
All he had to do was to keep his backward beliefs off social media. The only people who “have to” post on social media are insecure teenagers and attention whores. It certainly does not say “post this crap on insta” anywhere in the good book.
He is causing more damage all around, including to himself by taking this further.

Just fark off and leave us alone Issy.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:36 am 
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Olo wrote:
Fark Israel Folau and the horse he rode in on. He said if he was at odds with the mantra of RA and he was seen to be damaging the image of the game he would walk away. Both of those are painstakingly obvious to all.
All he had to do was to keep his backward beliefs off social media. The only people who “have to” post on social media are insecure teenagers and attention whores. It certainly does not say “post this crap on insta” anywhere in the good book.
He is causing more damage all around, including to himself by taking this further.

Just fark off and leave us alone Issy.


He didn't need to keep all his backwards beliefs off social media. Just the ones that were pointed out to him as being specifically detrimental to others. Due warning.

He was posting religiousy bollocks on social media constantly. RA had no concerns, until he crossed the line for a third and forth time in one fell swoop.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:37 am 
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Dark wrote:
comets wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them


Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:49 am 
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Thomas wrote:
Dark wrote:
comets wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them


Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


People suffer from words every day, and you do not need to be fragile to suffer from words, and often words are often the start to worse things, i bet anyone would start to feel depressed or angry if they started to get constant negative words from a person or group of persons, for any small extended period of time. If a big organization like RA who claims to be inclusive allows a high profile employee like IF to spout off negative and hateful words against a minority of people just for being who they are, it sends a bad message to people who belong in that group, especially when that group has a long history of discrimination, even when they could go to prison just for being who they are. That message would say you do not matter.

IF was free to spout off about his religion, he did so on numerous occasions, RA only to exception when it turned against a segment of society for just being who they were, their sexuality that they cannot help.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:57 am 
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Honestly that sticks and stones saying is full of shit, i remember that from childhood, words hurt, and yeah getting physically hurt sucks too, but i would rather have some physical pain from an accident than have that physical pain from someone else who deliberately setting out to do you harm. It does make a difference, having others who want to hurt you, be it mentally or physically is not a good feeling.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:42 am 
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Harveys wrote:
FB what specific question didn’t I answer? I’m pretty sure I was responding consistently to conversation in good faith, posters not posting in good faith I’m not all that interested in.

I can't remember the first lot which were probably 50-70 pages of the thread ago, the second lot were variations of the original ones you ignored - IIRC (not verbatim as they were probably still over 20 pages ago) they were about using religion as a get out of jail free card and how far the parameters of that would extend, whether you truly believe this is a religious discrimination/free speech issue or if you're just being a contrarian, how you define free speech in relation to this issue. (I can't remember if these questions were before the Clyde Rathbone article where you appeared to modify your views - despite his argument/discussion points mirroring many from this thread.)

Olo wrote:
Fark Israel Folau and the horse he rode in on. He said if he was at odds with the mantra of RA and he was seen to be damaging the image of the game he would walk away. Both of those are painstakingly obvious to all.
All he had to do was to keep his backward beliefs off social media. The only people who “have to” post on social media are insecure teenagers and attention whores. It certainly does not say “post this crap on insta” anywhere in the good book.
He is causing more damage all around, including to himself by taking this further.

Just fark off and leave us alone Issy.

Yep, I really can't believe he still has defenders on here when this is taken into account. He's just a prick regardless of his religion.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:46 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Harveys wrote:
FB what specific question didn’t I answer? I’m pretty sure I was responding consistently to conversation in good faith, posters not posting in good faith I’m not all that interested in.

I can't remember the first lot which were probably 50-70 pages of the thread ago, the second lot were variations of the original ones you ignored - IIRC (not verbatim as they were probably still over 20 pages ago) they were about using religion as a get out of jail free card and how far the parameters of that would extend, whether you truly believe this is a religious discrimination/free speech issue or if you're just being a contrarian, how you define free speech in relation to this issue. (I can't remember if these questions were before the Clyde Rathbone article where you appeared to modify your views - despite his argument/discussion points mirroring many from this thread.)

Olo wrote:
Fark Israel Folau and the horse he rode in on. He said if he was at odds with the mantra of RA and he was seen to be damaging the image of the game he would walk away. Both of those are painstakingly obvious to all.
All he had to do was to keep his backward beliefs off social media. The only people who “have to” post on social media are insecure teenagers and attention whores. It certainly does not say “post this crap on insta” anywhere in the good book.
He is causing more damage all around, including to himself by taking this further.

Just fark off and leave us alone Issy.

Yep, I really can't believe he still has defenders on here when this is taken into account. He's just a prick regardless of his religion.


Honestly why? there are people on here who will defend anything or will try to argue semantics or defend anything while trying to hide behind arguing semantics.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:59 am 
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FB none of my argument was ever free speech it was the potential conflict of discrimination & I stated I adjusted that opinion after the article.

I do have a busy job & a family do can’t post on here non stop.

My current argument on here is not defending religion unconditionally. It’s against comets factually wrong position that it’s all a matter of intelligence as to if you practice any form of religion and blaming all the worlds troubles on it.

Positions like this aren’t helpful at all and everyone just doubles down.

On the Aus politics threat people are wondering how the other side think. Truth is they don’t want to know, they want to stay in there coddled biased privileged perceptions and name call from some misguided position of moral ethical and intellectual hill top.

Hence the response to ted & now you.

Leaving you to it isn’t leaving the thread it’s leaving you two to your thing.


Last edited by Harveys on Wed May 22, 2019 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:04 am 
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Harden up!!! wrote:

People suffer from words every day, and you do not need to be fragile to suffer from words, and often words are often the start to worse things, i bet anyone would start to feel depressed or angry if they started to get constant negative words from a person or group of persons, for any small extended period of time. If a big organization like RA who claims to be inclusive allows a high profile employee like IF to spout off negative and hateful words against a minority of people just for being who they are, it sends a bad message to people who belong in that group, especially when that group has a long history of discrimination, even when they could go to prison just for being who they are. That message would say you do not matter.

IF was free to spout off about his religion, he did so on numerous occasions, RA only to exception when it turned against a segment of society for just being who they were, their sexuality that they cannot help.

Yeah, so, much like this forum? I bet your bottom dollar if I said you hurt my feelings by all the nasty shit you lot spout behind a computer screen you'd laugh your arses off.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:05 am 
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Toro wrote:
I find it interesting that some focus on whether Folau's individual view is what may hurt young people struggling with their sexuality. The main issue behind inclusivity (not just in rugby) is what we accept as a society. Casual bigotry has been around for a long time as people make racist jokes, sexist comments etc without really being either. (Most of us probably still do to a certain degree when in trusted company)

What's changed is people getting called out on sh-t which before would get a laugh, as society has realised how much damage these comments and stereotypes can have on people's lives, kids growing up and the encouragement of prejudice, even if they are 'harmless' jokes.

I think it's a massive statement from ARU to do what they have done, and it has a much wider impact than just their disagreement with Folau. It shows a much wider range of people how far reaching, what we accept nowadays, is. It shows that even hidden behind religion it's still 'not cool' and that the values they represent are of massive importance.

The voice of crowds getting vocal to other players who have backed up Folau is also telling. Hopefully it won't be long before it's as condemned as racism and sexism even if spouted as religious belief.


Good post, Toro. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:14 am 
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Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Last edited by Crazy Ed on Wed May 22, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:22 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:

People suffer from words every day, and you do not need to be fragile to suffer from words, and often words are often the start to worse things, i bet anyone would start to feel depressed or angry if they started to get constant negative words from a person or group of persons, for any small extended period of time. If a big organization like RA who claims to be inclusive allows a high profile employee like IF to spout off negative and hateful words against a minority of people just for being who they are, it sends a bad message to people who belong in that group, especially when that group has a long history of discrimination, even when they could go to prison just for being who they are. That message would say you do not matter.

IF was free to spout off about his religion, he did so on numerous occasions, RA only to exception when it turned against a segment of society for just being who they were, their sexuality that they cannot help.

Yeah, so, much like this forum? I bet your bottom dollar if I said you hurt my feelings by all the nasty shit you lot spout behind a computer screen you'd laugh your arses off.


Its behind a computer screen, IF post was not, hes high profile due to his position with RA, and hes going after a group of people for just being who they are with a history of discrimination against them for that.

If I have hurt your feelings, bring up the posts where I have and explain why, I joke a lot, often in bad taste I admit.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:25 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Harveys wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Harveys wrote:


No, no you don't.

The context of the post is clear, your choosing to misinterpret it is on you.


I'm quite happy with my reply.

I think it's probably the Petersonists TBF.



Meh, resorting to name calling, I will leave you guys to it. :thumbup:

No you wont, you'll avoid answering direct questions and then rejoin the thread a few pages later with the same shtick.


Peterson is an interesting bloke, TBF. Profoundly misguided and wrong, in the main, I suspect his personality trait affect his views, more than any intellectual processes,it's the latter which colours how he expresses his views.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:29 am 
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Who is this peterson? At least its a Personality Trait not a disorder, dealing with people with personality disorders can be hell.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:34 am 
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Harden up!!! wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:

People suffer from words every day, and you do not need to be fragile to suffer from words, and often words are often the start to worse things, i bet anyone would start to feel depressed or angry if they started to get constant negative words from a person or group of persons, for any small extended period of time. If a big organization like RA who claims to be inclusive allows a high profile employee like IF to spout off negative and hateful words against a minority of people just for being who they are, it sends a bad message to people who belong in that group, especially when that group has a long history of discrimination, even when they could go to prison just for being who they are. That message would say you do not matter.

IF was free to spout off about his religion, he did so on numerous occasions, RA only to exception when it turned against a segment of society for just being who they were, their sexuality that they cannot help.

Yeah, so, much like this forum? I bet your bottom dollar if I said you hurt my feelings by all the nasty shit you lot spout behind a computer screen you'd laugh your arses off.


Its behind a computer screen, IF post was not, hes high profile due to his position with RA, and hes going after a group of people for just being who they are with a history of discrimination against them for that.

If I have hurt your feelings, bring up the posts where I have and explain why, I joke a lot, often in bad taste I admit.

I was making a point. How is whether it's behind a computer screen or it's IF posting 'hatefull' shit any different? Words hurt.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:48 am 
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Harveys wrote:
FB none of my argument was ever free speech it was the potential conflict of discrimination & I stated I adjusted that opinion after the article.

I do have a busy job & a family do can’t post on here non stop.


IIRC at the time I asked that question I think you had just criticised a post emphatically stating this was not a free speech issue and the other questions were based on your posts of the previous few pages. Furthermore I was asking of clarification of your position with my questions, not explicitly saying you exactly held the positions I was asking about.

You speak about 'good actors' yet as I noted previously, the argument made by Rathbone had been put forward at many times (by different poster's) throughout this thread with no change of your opinion - so I think I'm ok in asking if you were playing the contrarian at this juncture.

Quote:
My current argument on here is not defending religion unconditionally. It’s against comets factually wrong position that it’s all a matter of intelligence as to if you practice any form of religion and blaming all the worlds troubles on it.

Positions like this aren’t helpful at all and everyone just doubles down.

On the Aus politics threat people are wondering how the other side think. Truth is they don’t want to know, they want to stay in there coddled biased privileged perceptions and name call from some misguided position of moral ethical and intellectual superiority.

TBH completely honest I actually feel that the bold applies to you - you give across an air of moral and intellectual superiority and that you're the only true thinker here because you 'consider' both sides. Well, most of us consider both sides, however that doesn't mean we need to apply equal weight to them when one side is clearly lacking.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:58 am 
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Thomas wrote:
Dark wrote:
comets wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them


Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


Where do you get that from Thomas? Just curious as the official death stats website lists mood disorders as the leading cause of selfharm deaths followed by drug abuse which is not very in-depth in detail.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:02 am 
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Comets wrote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Crazy Ed wrote:
I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.



wow, you dumbed it down to the level only you understand that in? so telling gays to repent or go to hell is the SAME as your mother telling to clean your room or she will be disappointed? jesus, i mean Satan, what is wrong with your people? that is NOT the same as what i said, per your definition its actually your mother telling you to "go to church and stop being a faggot or she will disown you" that is how you actually should be reading that ..

edit, wow u are so dumb that u messed up how to quote stuff too .. ugh..


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:05 am 
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mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:10 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:

People suffer from words every day, and you do not need to be fragile to suffer from words, and often words are often the start to worse things, i bet anyone would start to feel depressed or angry if they started to get constant negative words from a person or group of persons, for any small extended period of time. If a big organization like RA who claims to be inclusive allows a high profile employee like IF to spout off negative and hateful words against a minority of people just for being who they are, it sends a bad message to people who belong in that group, especially when that group has a long history of discrimination, even when they could go to prison just for being who they are. That message would say you do not matter.

IF was free to spout off about his religion, he did so on numerous occasions, RA only to exception when it turned against a segment of society for just being who they were, their sexuality that they cannot help.

Yeah, so, much like this forum? I bet your bottom dollar if I said you hurt my feelings by all the nasty shit you lot spout behind a computer screen you'd laugh your arses off.


Its behind a computer screen, IF post was not, hes high profile due to his position with RA, and hes going after a group of people for just being who they are with a history of discrimination against them for that.

If I have hurt your feelings, bring up the posts where I have and explain why, I joke a lot, often in bad taste I admit.

I was making a point. How is whether it's behind a computer screen or it's IF posting 'hatefull' shit any different? Words hurt.


So you are supporting my point. The difference is there is more avenue to calling out IF behavior on here you can try, and I even gave you an opportunity, but people can hide more behind the screen more than IF did, which is my point, in fact he is using the opposite his fame to give more weight to his words. Just because some people can hide behind a computer screen and spout off hurtful words does not then excuse everyone from doing the same, nor does is it an argument for never calling people out on their use of hurtful words. People were using hurtful words long before the internet existed.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:14 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


Not all christian's share Folaus views and I doubt Folau agrees with all christians, Christianity is rather a very large and diverse group. Quite a few christians and pacific islanders are offended at the assumption that IF is the spokesmen for them on this issue.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:24 am 
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Harden up!!! wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


Not all christian's share Folaus views and I doubt Folau agrees with all christians, Christianity is rather a very large and diverse group. Quite a few christians and pacific islanders are offended at the assumption that IF is the spokesmen for them on this issue.


if they are offended, i have yet to see a SINGLE one speak up about it on media..


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:28 am 
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Harden up!!! wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


Not all christian's share Folaus views and I doubt Folau agrees with all christians, Christianity is rather a very large and diverse group. Quite a few christians and pacific islanders are offended at the assumption that IF is the spokesmen for them on this issue.

I've not said anything that would indicate I believe all Christians share his views or that I am idiotic enough to believe he speaks for all PI's. Why would you even bother to bring that up ?
I
I don't even know how much of a fundamentalist the man is. You will find I started my previous post with the word "if"

Just imagine you have a gay teenage son or daughter who is in the closet and they know you STILL admire Israel Folau. Your poor child

@ mightyreds :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:33 am 
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comets wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


Not all christian's share Folaus views and I doubt Folau agrees with all christians, Christianity is rather a very large and diverse group. Quite a few christians and pacific islanders are offended at the assumption that IF is the spokesmen for them on this issue.


if they are offended, i have yet to see a SINGLE one speak up about it on media..


TJ Flapanara for one.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:36 am 
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comets wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


Not all christian's share Folaus views and I doubt Folau agrees with all christians, Christianity is rather a very large and diverse group. Quite a few christians and pacific islanders are offended at the assumption that IF is the spokesmen for them on this issue.


if they are offended, i have yet to see a SINGLE one speak up about it on media..


They have seen what happens if someone has a differing view


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:09 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Harveys wrote:
FB none of my argument was ever free speech it was the potential conflict of discrimination & I stated I adjusted that opinion after the article.

I do have a busy job & a family do can’t post on here non stop.


IIRC at the time I asked that question I think you had just criticised a post emphatically stating this was not a free speech issue and the other questions were based on your posts of the previous few pages. Furthermore I was asking of clarification of your position with my questions, not explicitly saying you exactly held the positions I was asking about.

You speak about 'good actors' yet as I noted previously, the argument made by Rathbone had been put forward at many times (by different poster's) throughout this thread with no change of your opinion - so I think I'm ok in asking if you were playing the contrarian at this juncture.

Quote:
My current argument on here is not defending religion unconditionally. It’s against comets factually wrong position that it’s all a matter of intelligence as to if you practice any form of religion and blaming all the worlds troubles on it.

Positions like this aren’t helpful at all and everyone just doubles down.

On the Aus politics threat people are wondering how the other side think. Truth is they don’t want to know, they want to stay in there coddled biased privileged perceptions and name call from some misguided position of moral ethical and intellectual superiority.

TBH completely honest I actually feel that the bold applies to you - you give across an air of moral and intellectual superiority and that you're the only true thinker here because you 'consider' both sides. Well, most of us consider both sides, however that doesn't mean we need to apply equal weight to them when one side is clearly lacking.


Well I’m open minded enough to change my position.

The article presented a complete coherent argument, what you and others were presenting before was fragmented pieces of that argument.

As I’ve said before I’m very interested in jungian archetypal theory have been for over a decade and I think it explains this stuff very well.

People can say what they like about Peterson but in his field, personality psychology he articulates this stuff very well. There are great talks on Jung and religious proclivity in his class lectures pre his internet fame


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