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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:16 am 
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Good article:
Remarks seen as lacking malice by straight players were hugely damaging to the gay community.
"Oftentimes we would have banter than a gay person would perceive as homophobic and be quite harmful, but a straight person, because there is no malice behind it,no intent, to express negative attitude towards gay people, they don't actually view it as homophobic," Denison said.

The reality is that if New Zealand Rugby wants to keep bringing in the big dollars from the corporate sector – money that keeps players in the country – it needs to change the culture.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... c-language

Casual homophobia is widespread in junior rugby - precisely why RA needed to act decisively this time round with low IQ Izzy (I personally blame Maria "don't call me Yoko" Folau).


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:27 am 
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Zakar wrote:
comets wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
mightyreds wrote:

My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.

If he has total belief in the bollox that is in the bible as far as his concerned your daughter is a second class citizen.
Quality roll model :thumbup:


Not all christian's share Folaus views and I doubt Folau agrees with all christians, Christianity is rather a very large and diverse group. Quite a few christians and pacific islanders are offended at the assumption that IF is the spokesmen for them on this issue.


if they are offended, i have yet to see a SINGLE one speak up about it on media..


TJ Flapanara for one.


Will Genia is another.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:29 am 
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Tragic wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Dark wrote:
comets wrote:
mightyreds wrote:

My view of it is, if they don't mess with the secular world, leave religions to believe what they say and like about an afterlife. Anything else betrays a sort of obsessive compulsive disorder about controlling the beliefs of others, a version of totalitarianism. Izzy and his faith express a lot of love and respect for fellow people in this world. I have a teenage daughter and while I am generally proud of how Australian rugby players represent the sport, he has always been the first person I think of when pointing to an Aussie player as a role model. Nothing's changed.



what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them


Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


Where do you get that from Thomas? Just curious as the official death stats website lists mood disorders as the leading cause of selfharm deaths followed by drug abuse which is not very in-depth in detail.


Its a wikipedia post sure, but it does link to supporting documentation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth.

Quote:
Research has found that attempted suicide rates and suicidal ideation among lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) youth is significantly higher than among the general population.[1] LGBT adolescents have the highest rate of suicide attempts,[2] which scientific research indicates is linked to homophobic attitudes and heterosexist discrimination.[3]


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:42 am 
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Harden up!!! wrote:
Who is this peterson? At least its a Personality Trait not a disorder, dealing with people with personality disorders can be hell.



Jordon Peterson.

It could be a disorder, too. :nod:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:45 am 
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Harden up!!! wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:

People suffer from words every day, and you do not need to be fragile to suffer from words, and often words are often the start to worse things, i bet anyone would start to feel depressed or angry if they started to get constant negative words from a person or group of persons, for any small extended period of time. If a big organization like RA who claims to be inclusive allows a high profile employee like IF to spout off negative and hateful words against a minority of people just for being who they are, it sends a bad message to people who belong in that group, especially when that group has a long history of discrimination, even when they could go to prison just for being who they are. That message would say you do not matter.

IF was free to spout off about his religion, he did so on numerous occasions, RA only to exception when it turned against a segment of society for just being who they were, their sexuality that they cannot help.

Yeah, so, much like this forum? I bet your bottom dollar if I said you hurt my feelings by all the nasty shit you lot spout behind a computer screen you'd laugh your arses off.


Its behind a computer screen, IF post was not, hes high profile due to his position with RA, and hes going after a group of people for just being who they are with a history of discrimination against them for that.

If I have hurt your feelings, bring up the posts where I have and explain why, I joke a lot, often in bad taste I admit.

I was making a point. How is whether it's behind a computer screen or it's IF posting 'hatefull' shit any different? Words hurt.


So you are supporting my point. The difference is there is more avenue to calling out IF behavior on here you can try, and I even gave you an opportunity, but people can hide more behind the screen more than IF did, which is my point, in fact he is using the opposite his fame to give more weight to his words. Just because some people can hide behind a computer screen and spout off hurtful words does not then excuse everyone from doing the same, nor does is it an argument for never calling people out on their use of hurtful words. People were using hurtful words long before the internet existed.

I was actually just paraphrasing you. My point it's f**king hypocritical of IF haters with all the mud slingers here.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:05 am 
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Tragic wrote:
Thomas wrote:

Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


Where do you get that from Thomas? Just curious as the official death stats website lists mood disorders as the leading cause of selfharm deaths followed by drug abuse which is not very in-depth in detail.


There a number of studies in this area

https://www.amhf.org.au/new_study_sheds_light_on_lgbt_youth_suicides

https://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/

Quote:
Statistics for LGBTI Population

16% of LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide
35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime
19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status
8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide,

18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse

Statistics for General Population

3.2% of people (4.4% females; 2.1% males) aged 16 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime;
0.4% of general population (0.5% females; 0.3% males) in the last 12 months
1.1% of people (1.7% females; 0.5% males) aged 16 to 24 have attempted suicide in the past 12 months


Suicide is the leading cause of death in Australians aged between 15 and 44.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:15 am 
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Thomas wrote:
Tragic wrote:
Thomas wrote:

Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


Where do you get that from Thomas? Just curious as the official death stats website lists mood disorders as the leading cause of selfharm deaths followed by drug abuse which is not very in-depth in detail.


There a number of studies in this area

https://www.amhf.org.au/new_study_sheds_light_on_lgbt_youth_suicides

https://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/

Quote:
Statistics for LGBTI Population

16% of LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide
35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime
19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status
8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide,

18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse

Statistics for General Population

3.2% of people (4.4% females; 2.1% males) aged 16 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime;
0.4% of general population (0.5% females; 0.3% males) in the last 12 months
1.1% of people (1.7% females; 0.5% males) aged 16 to 24 have attempted suicide in the past 12 months


Suicide is the leading cause of death in Australians aged between 15 and 44.


Cheers Farva & Thomas


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:24 am 
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talking about real Christian ppl like pastors and maybe leaders of churches in the islands, not rugby players...when PI descended islanders who run churches speak up AGAINST folau, thats when ppl will realise folau is wrong, no one cares what genia, perenara, or weber think of folau.... odd that all 3 are halfbacks..


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:26 am 
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Harveys wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Harveys wrote:
FB none of my argument was ever free speech it was the potential conflict of discrimination & I stated I adjusted that opinion after the article.

I do have a busy job & a family do can’t post on here non stop.


IIRC at the time I asked that question I think you had just criticised a post emphatically stating this was not a free speech issue and the other questions were based on your posts of the previous few pages. Furthermore I was asking of clarification of your position with my questions, not explicitly saying you exactly held the positions I was asking about.

You speak about 'good actors' yet as I noted previously, the argument made by Rathbone had been put forward at many times (by different poster's) throughout this thread with no change of your opinion - so I think I'm ok in asking if you were playing the contrarian at this juncture.

Quote:
My current argument on here is not defending religion unconditionally. It’s against comets factually wrong position that it’s all a matter of intelligence as to if you practice any form of religion and blaming all the worlds troubles on it.

Positions like this aren’t helpful at all and everyone just doubles down.

On the Aus politics threat people are wondering how the other side think. Truth is they don’t want to know, they want to stay in there coddled biased privileged perceptions and name call from some misguided position of moral ethical and intellectual superiority.

TBH completely honest I actually feel that the bold applies to you - you give across an air of moral and intellectual superiority and that you're the only true thinker here because you 'consider' both sides. Well, most of us consider both sides, however that doesn't mean we need to apply equal weight to them when one side is clearly lacking.


Well I’m open minded enough to change my position.

The article presented a complete coherent argument, what you and others were presenting before was fragmented pieces of that argument.

As I’ve said before I’m very interested in jungian archetypal theory have been for over a decade and I think it explains this stuff very well.

People can say what they like about Peterson but in his field, personality psychology he articulates this stuff very well. There are great talks on Jung and religious proclivity in his class lectures pre his internet fame

I would have credited you with that if you'd done it earlier. There were as coherent arguments as Rathbone's throughout this thread, it's bollocks to suggest otherwise and even fragmented you're bright enough to piece them together, what was most annoying was so many of us endlessly having to repeat them.

I only wind you up about Peterson because you're wind-up-able about it, but I agree that Jungian archetypal theory is interesting although I'm unlikely to have taken as deep a dive into it as you have.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:54 am 
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Dark wrote:
comets wrote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them

Yeah, it's not even as if just typing some words will get you banned from the forum.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:04 am 
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usermame wrote:
Dark wrote:
comets wrote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?


Spouting bollocks

Words are hardly messing with anything, unless you are fragile enough to be worried about them

Yeah, it's not even as if just typing some words will get you banned from the forum.


yeah my banning on this forum is in double digits, as i have said before, some mods here have no sense of humour (even the one that thinks he is a comedian :D ) so its not the words that get you binned, its the lack of a funny bone from a mod that does... same implies to Izzy, his words may not offend all but whoever it does offend is not going to sit around and do nothing.. i remember getting banned on an IRC for wikipedia channel cause i said the word "retardlicans" during the 2016POTUS election, other mods laughed but one got pissed off and said that it offends people who are actually retards and so i was like "you mean every wikipedian?" .. needless to say, that was my final words on that channel... so yeah words do offend ppl, maybe not all, but the few who it does, if they have the power behind them can throw a damn mountain on you. Izzy made that same mistake twice, once is honest, twice is just asking for it... i think RA learned that old saying, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, they bloody hell were not going to let Izzy eff them up the 3rd time....i say good on em.. :thumbup: sometimes you have to stand for something even if it causes you a whole lot of discomfort...


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:26 am 
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Every single person I've banned on this forum has deserved it. About 75% of the bannings I do are shoot on sight posters who have tried to weasel back in.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:50 am 
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Comets you get banned because your sense of humour is shit, not because others lack one.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am 
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Harveys wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Harveys wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


So what about All the other ideologies that have minority’s that swing to extremes.


Which ideologies do you have in mind? Outside of “religions”?


You're smart enough to come up with a few I’m sure.


uh huh...

UncleFB wrote:
No you wont, you'll avoid answering direct questions and then rejoin the thread a few pages later with the same shtick.



Uncle FB has you pegged


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Comets you get banned because your sense of humour is shit, not because others lack one.

Is the correct answer


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:33 am 
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Ok

I'll admit my "fragile" and it is just words, was a bad description.

Didn't think about kids

I apologise


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 am 
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Thomas wrote:
Tragic wrote:
Thomas wrote:

Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


Where do you get that from Thomas? Just curious as the official death stats website lists mood disorders as the leading cause of selfharm deaths followed by drug abuse which is not very in-depth in detail.


There a number of studies in this area

https://www.amhf.org.au/new_study_sheds_light_on_lgbt_youth_suicides

https://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/

Quote:
Statistics for LGBTI Population

16% of LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide
35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime
19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status
8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide,

18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse

Statistics for General Population

3.2% of people (4.4% females; 2.1% males) aged 16 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime;
0.4% of general population (0.5% females; 0.3% males) in the last 12 months
1.1% of people (1.7% females; 0.5% males) aged 16 to 24 have attempted suicide in the past 12 months


Suicide is the leading cause of death in Australians aged between 15 and 44.


Be interesting to know actual suicide rate rather than attempts..although I’m not sure those stats exist

Lbgt vs general population

In Nz it’s male dominated, with male maoris being disproportionately effected


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 am 
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brat wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Tragic wrote:
Thomas wrote:

Fragile?

FFS.

Young gay men are more at risk of topping themselves than any other demographic in society (Reds fans included). You call them fragile? Get the fark out. You're part of the problem.


Where do you get that from Thomas? Just curious as the official death stats website lists mood disorders as the leading cause of selfharm deaths followed by drug abuse which is not very in-depth in detail.


There a number of studies in this area

https://www.amhf.org.au/new_study_sheds_light_on_lgbt_youth_suicides

https://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/

Quote:
Statistics for LGBTI Population

16% of LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide
35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime
19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status
8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide,

18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse

Statistics for General Population

3.2% of people (4.4% females; 2.1% males) aged 16 and over have attempted suicide in their lifetime;
0.4% of general population (0.5% females; 0.3% males) in the last 12 months
1.1% of people (1.7% females; 0.5% males) aged 16 to 24 have attempted suicide in the past 12 months


Suicide is the leading cause of death in Australians aged between 15 and 44.


Be interesting to know actual suicide rate rather than attempts..although I’m not sure those stats exist

Lbgt vs general population

In Nz it’s male dominated, with male maoris being disproportionately effected


Don't know for sure, but it is normal in most countries for there to be

More females than males attempting suicide

More males than females actually succeeding

Peterson reckons it is because as males as a rule tend to be more aggressive they chose more violent (likely to work) ways to go about the deed.

Bullet, rope etc over pills, wrists etc

From the stats I have read tend to agree

Also think a lot of the females are more a cry for help rather than genuine trying to do it. Haven't heard him mention this. Just a hunch.


Last edited by Dark on Wed May 22, 2019 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:43 am 
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I get all my information from Jordan Peterson


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:48 am 
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naki wrote:
I get all my information from Jordan Peterson


I get information from stats then happened to hear is explanation and it sounded plausable, given the methods in the stats


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:38 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Harveys wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Harveys wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


So what about All the other ideologies that have minority’s that swing to extremes.


Which ideologies do you have in mind? Outside of “religions”?


You're smart enough to come up with a few I’m sure.


uh huh...

UncleFB wrote:
No you wont, you'll avoid answering direct questions and then rejoin the thread a few pages later with the same shtick.



Uncle FB has you pegged


Harveys wrote:
FB what specific question didn’t I answer? I’m pretty sure I was responding consistently to conversation in good faith, posters not posting in good faith I’m not all that interested in.


Two posts under my response to you.

You didn't take the hint or just conveniently ignoring it?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:26 am 
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It's not hard.

I asked you a direct question. I'm waiting for you to answer it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:34 am 
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Crazy Ed wrote:
Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:42 am 
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PornDog wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:49 am 
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Dark wrote:
PornDog wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.

Analogies dont always work.

Kids in the playground see their idols saying there is something different about gay people and they should change. Little mini Dark is gay and doesnt know how to change. He sits there and gets teased by his class mates because he acts differently. He also has internal strife because he thinks there is something wrong with him, and he cant change.

I posted above, gay adolescents have one of the highest levels of suicide of all groups.

Do you understand now?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:51 am 
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Dark wrote:
He ... hasn't said to stop being gay.

Does repent mean you can just *Carry On* being gay?

Image

Ooh, Matron!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:52 am 
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Dark wrote:

That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.



If only we had some clue about what opinion Folau himself might have about HELL.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:55 am 
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Farva wrote:
Do you understand now?


It's not about understanding. It's more about how long Dark can string this out for. That's how he operated as TMAB and despite his claims to being a new man, he still does the same thing. Just drills the dumb down further and further with each post.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:59 am 
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Farva wrote:
Dark wrote:
PornDog wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.

Analogies dont always work.

Kids in the playground see their idols saying there is something different about gay people and they should change. Little mini Dark is gay and doesnt know how to change. He sits there and gets teased by his class mates because he acts differently. He also has internal strife because he thinks there is something wrong with him, and he cant change.

I posted above, gay adolescents have one of the highest levels of suicide of all groups.

Do you understand now?


I have child relatives who are gay

I understand more than you think

This has nothing to do with Folau just spouting turd from the bible and not actually dissing gay people personally


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:00 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:

That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.



If only we had some clue about what opinion Folau himself might have about HELL.



I don't believe in an imaginary place called hell, so I don't really care


You obviously think there is an actual hell

What do you think it is like?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:03 am 
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Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:

That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.



If only we had some clue about what opinion Folau himself might have about HELL.



I don't believe in an imaginary place called hell, so I don't really care


You obviously think there is an actual hell

What do you think it is like?


Swing and a miss there.
Folau presumably has a fairly strong belief in the existence of hell and the types of people who deserve to go there. It's his belief in it that really dictates how judgmental and condemning his post was.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:04 am 
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Dark wrote:
PornDog wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.


Well I was responding to Crazy Ed's rather dismissive analogy, but sure, you're being completely dismissive of gay people too


'Repent for being gay' isn't a call for them to stop being gay? Can you honestly say that it is an unreasonable interpretation for a gay person of IF's post as a call for them to stop being gay?

"Only Jesus Saves" - its pretty clear if you are not part of His 'family' you're f**ked!

Hasn't encouraged others? God has abandoned these people! He is sending them to Hell. As a God fearing Christian, should I not also show my contempt for them? Are they not worthy of my ire? Should I not smite them in God's name? It may not be an overt call to harm, but to think that certain sections of society do not take these words as license to be cruel show you have a complete lack of a realistic understanding of human nature.

Not abusive to anyone? He has repeatedly stated that homosexuals, simply for being who it is that they are, are bound for Hell. If that is not cruel and abusive then again you have a f**ked up idea about what is.



Look I understand to some degree - you are a strong and confident person and you recognise this as nothing more than name calling. Fine, I can see how you could come to that conclusion. But what you are not doing is showing any empathy whatsoever for those people that are not strong confident people that would easily dismiss this 'name calling' and move on with their lives. Not everyone is you, not everyone has had a supportive family structure, not everyone is told that God loves them - and you should recognise that.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:17 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:

That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.



If only we had some clue about what opinion Folau himself might have about HELL.



I don't believe in an imaginary place called hell, so I don't really care


You obviously think there is an actual hell

What do you think it is like?


Swing and a miss there.
Folau presumably has a fairly strong belief in the existence of hell and the types of people who deserve to go there. It's his belief in it that really dictates how judgmental and condemning his post was.


Sorry, but it is and it isn't

It is his belief because that is what the stupid book has told him happens

No where does he say he is happy about it or that he even agrees with it

You can twist his words as much as you like and feel free to call it semantics, but actual quoted words beat twisted interpretation all day every day


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:20 am 
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PornDog wrote:
Dark wrote:
PornDog wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
Quote:
what the eff do you think telling gays to repent or go to hell is then?

I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.


Well I was responding to Crazy Ed's rather dismissive analogy, but sure, you're being completely dismissive of gay people too


'Repent for being gay' isn't a call for them to stop being gay? Can you honestly say that it is an unreasonable interpretation for a gay person of IF's post as a call for them to stop being gay?

"Only Jesus Saves" - its pretty clear if you are not part of His 'family' you're f**ked!

Hasn't encouraged others? God has abandoned these people! He is sending them to Hell. As a God fearing Christian, should I not also show my contempt for them? Are they not worthy of my ire? Should I not smite them in God's name? It may not be an overt call to harm, but to think that certain sections of society do not take these words as license to be cruel show you have a complete lack of a realistic understanding of human nature.

Not abusive to anyone? He has repeatedly stated that homosexuals, simply for being who it is that they are, are bound for Hell. If that is not cruel and abusive then again you have a f**ked up idea about what is.




Look I understand to some degree - you are a strong and confident person and you recognise this as nothing more than name calling. Fine, I can see how you could come to that conclusion. But what you are not doing is showing any empathy whatsoever for those people that are not strong confident people that would easily dismiss this 'name calling' and move on with their lives. Not everyone is you, not everyone has had a supportive family structure, not everyone is told that God loves them - and you should recognise that.


Sorry but all the bolded is your made up interpretation of one tweet he didn't say

And if you scroll up I already apologised for my stupid writing it off as just words and fragility


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:21 am 
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How on Earth does pointing out that Folau himself almost certainly believes in Hell constitute 'twisting his words'?

Right now you're just accusing others of exactly what you're guilty of yourself. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:26 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
How on Earth does pointing out that Folau himself almost certainly believes in Hell constitute 'twisting his words'?

Right now you're just accusing others of exactly what you're guilty of yourself. :lol:



That is a fair point.

Misread your post.

Was thinking about another one while typing

:blush:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:30 am 
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From Wikipedia wrote:
Islam does not accept the concept of original sin; instead, it teaches that a person is born in a state of innocence and pure belief. The person remains in that state of sinlessness until reaching the age of puberty, after which he is accountable for his sins.

When the supposed shittiest religion in the world has a higher moral ground than the supposed "best" religion..


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:43 am 
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Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:

That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.



If only we had some clue about what opinion Folau himself might have about HELL.



I don't believe in an imaginary place called hell, so I don't really care


You obviously think there is an actual hell

What do you think it is like?


Swing and a miss there.
Folau presumably has a fairly strong belief in the existence of hell and the types of people who deserve to go there. It's his belief in it that really dictates how judgmental and condemning his post was.


Sorry, but it is and it isn't

It is his belief because that is what the stupid book has told him happens

No where does he say he is happy about it or that he even agrees with it

You can twist his words as much as you like and feel free to call it semantics, but actual quoted words beat twisted interpretation all day every day


If he's not happy about it he should challenge god on high and no priestly support could bring god safely down such is Folau's ability in the air.

As for the "think about the kids aspect from other posters in the thread, all the gay adults were once children too. Most grew up in a time where there was far less support for who they were. The insidious hate being spouted now was far more out-in-the-open for their childhoods. That'll get into anyone's mind and linger there. It takes a lot to overturn what the lack of love and support does to you, and it'll still be a part of a lot of fully grown gay people. It'll be there when today's kids have grown up too, but hopefully a lot less-so.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:47 am 
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Dark wrote:
PornDog wrote:
Dark wrote:
PornDog wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
I'll dumb this down again.

Isn't that the same as your Mum saying she will be disappointed with you if you don't tidy your room?

You risk her disappointment but not much else.
If you don't care about her feelings you don't need to tidy your room.


Allow me to dumb it down for you -

Imagine your mother, who you do or don't care about, has for most of your life been emotionally and sometimes even physically abusive to you. Her disdain is there for all to see - all of your brothers and sisters, all of your neighbours, everyone. Imagine the license that gives all of those people to make your life hell. People can be cruel f**king assholes when given the chance after all.

Now imagine the reason for her ire is that you're a ginger haired little plum. She keeps telling you to stop being ginger and she'll welcome you into the family!

Can you imagine now how that could literally torment the life out of someone?


That is great

But in the case of Folau

He hasn't been abusive to anyone, hasn't encouraged others too and doesn't decide who or who isn't in "the family" and hasn't said to stop being gay.


Well I was responding to Crazy Ed's rather dismissive analogy, but sure, you're being completely dismissive of gay people too


'Repent for being gay' isn't a call for them to stop being gay? Can you honestly say that it is an unreasonable interpretation for a gay person of IF's post as a call for them to stop being gay?

"Only Jesus Saves" - its pretty clear if you are not part of His 'family' you're f**ked!

Hasn't encouraged others? God has abandoned these people! He is sending them to Hell. As a God fearing Christian, should I not also show my contempt for them? Are they not worthy of my ire? Should I not smite them in God's name? It may not be an overt call to harm, but to think that certain sections of society do not take these words as license to be cruel show you have a complete lack of a realistic understanding of human nature.

Not abusive to anyone? He has repeatedly stated that homosexuals, simply for being who it is that they are, are bound for Hell. If that is not cruel and abusive then again you have a f**ked up idea about what is.




Look I understand to some degree - you are a strong and confident person and you recognise this as nothing more than name calling. Fine, I can see how you could come to that conclusion. But what you are not doing is showing any empathy whatsoever for those people that are not strong confident people that would easily dismiss this 'name calling' and move on with their lives. Not everyone is you, not everyone has had a supportive family structure, not everyone is told that God loves them - and you should recognise that.


Sorry but all the bolded is your made up interpretation of one tweet he didn't say

And if you scroll up I already apologised for my stupid writing it off as just words and fragility


WTF? I assume you're just on the troll here then.

I mean what is it you are saying he didn't say. Did he not say that homosexuals need to repent or they will go to Hell? Did he not say that only Jesus saves? Those are the only words I have attributed to him in my post and here you are claiming he didn't say them!!!!!!!

As for interpretation - again WTF!!! Every single attempt at communication ever committed by fauna and flora has involved interpretation! It's like you have attempted to dismiss my post by saying the most irrelevant thing ever. "Yeah, well Elephants are Pink! So there!" Thanks for the insight.

For the avoidance of doubt, my point is that people will, either reasonably or unreasonably, interpret those words in damaging ways (whether that damage is internalised or externalised). Whether IF is indifferent to that, too stupid to understand it, or doing so deliberately, in no way changes the damage those words can cause. Nor does it absolve him from criticism.

I have no idea what point it is you are trying to make, so just assume you are on a troll trying to trigger people. Good luck with that!


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am 
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CarrotGawks wrote:
Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:

Swing and a miss there.
Folau presumably has a fairly strong belief in the existence of hell and the types of people who deserve to go there. It's his belief in it that really dictates how judgmental and condemning his post was.


Sorry, but it is and it isn't

It is his belief because that is what the stupid book has told him happens

No where does he say he is happy about it or that he even agrees with it

You can twist his words as much as you like and feel free to call it semantics, but actual quoted words beat twisted interpretation all day every day


If he's not happy about it he should challenge god on high and no priestly support could bring god safely down such is Folau's ability in the air.

As for the "think about the kids aspect from other posters in the thread, all the gay adults were once children too. Most grew up in a time where there was far less support for who they were. The insidious hate being spouted now was far more out-in-the-open for their childhoods. That'll get into anyone's mind and linger there. It takes a lot to overturn what the lack of love and support does to you, and it'll still be a part of a lot of fully grown gay people. It'll be there when today's kids have grown up too, but hopefully a lot less-so.


Seems to be happening with each generation now, which can only be a good thing


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