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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:59 am 
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PornDog wrote:

WTF?


Quote:
'Repent for being gay' isn't a call for them to stop being gay?


Look up the meaning of "repent"

Quote:
Hasn't encouraged others?


Well no. Unless you read a different tweet
Quote:
As a God fearing Christian, should I not also show my contempt for them?


I have no idea, but Folau hasn't told you to in his tweet

Quote:
Not abusive to anyone? He has repeatedly stated that homosexuals, simply for being who it is that they are, are bound for Hell.


And?

Does he say he agrees with it. Likes it.

He is just spouting crap from the bible

Quote:
If that is not cruel and abusive then again you have a f**ked up idea about what is.


The vast majority of even christians don't believe in a literal hell.

You do. I get it. and apologise if its scary what god says


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:07 am 
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This post was made by Dark who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Bye bye troll


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:09 am 
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PornDog wrote:
This post was made by Dark who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Bye bye troll


:?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:10 am 
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The point of my simplified analogy was to remind people that the truth lies somewhere in between the everybody is topping themselves and nobody gives a shit what IF thinks.

From my personal experience my gay relations are probably the most confident and comfortable mentally of all my close family. Hence my belief that most people will be able to interpret or ignore somebodies online posts as they see fit. They should also be able to have the discretion not to subscribe to literature or online content that may offend them.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:25 am 
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There are some proper attention whores hanging around on this thread.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:35 am 
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CarrotGawks wrote:
Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:


If only we had some clue about what opinion Folau himself might have about HELL.



I don't believe in an imaginary place called hell, so I don't really care


You obviously think there is an actual hell

What do you think it is like?


Swing and a miss there.
Folau presumably has a fairly strong belief in the existence of hell and the types of people who deserve to go there. It's his belief in it that really dictates how judgmental and condemning his post was.


Sorry, but it is and it isn't

It is his belief because that is what the stupid book has told him happens

No where does he say he is happy about it or that he even agrees with it

You can twist his words as much as you like and feel free to call it semantics, but actual quoted words beat twisted interpretation all day every day


If he's not happy about it he should challenge god on high and no priestly support could bring god safely down such is Folau's ability in the air.

As for the "think about the kids aspect from other posters in the thread, all the gay adults were once children too. Most grew up in a time where there was far less support for who they were. The insidious hate being spouted now was far more out-in-the-open for their childhoods. That'll get into anyone's mind and linger there. It takes a lot to overturn what the lack of love and support does to you, and it'll still be a part of a lot of fully grown gay people. It'll be there when today's kids have grown up too, but hopefully a lot less-so.

Yep. It was worse in the past. Does that mean we dont do anything? Im sure plenty of suicides occurred due to gay bullying and gay conversion / non acceptance by their community. The fact its better is not a reason to say its all OK when it clearly is not.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am 
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Farva wrote:
CarrotGawks wrote:
Dark wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Dark wrote:
I don't believe in an imaginary place called hell, so I don't really care


You obviously think there is an actual hell

What do you think it is like?


Swing and a miss there.
Folau presumably has a fairly strong belief in the existence of hell and the types of people who deserve to go there. It's his belief in it that really dictates how judgmental and condemning his post was.


Sorry, but it is and it isn't

It is his belief because that is what the stupid book has told him happens

No where does he say he is happy about it or that he even agrees with it

You can twist his words as much as you like and feel free to call it semantics, but actual quoted words beat twisted interpretation all day every day


If he's not happy about it he should challenge god on high and no priestly support could bring god safely down such is Folau's ability in the air.

As for the "think about the kids aspect from other posters in the thread, all the gay adults were once children too. Most grew up in a time where there was far less support for who they were. The insidious hate being spouted now was far more out-in-the-open for their childhoods. That'll get into anyone's mind and linger there. It takes a lot to overturn what the lack of love and support does to you, and it'll still be a part of a lot of fully grown gay people. It'll be there when today's kids have grown up too, but hopefully a lot less-so.

Yep. It was worse in the past. Does that mean we dont do anything? Im sure plenty of suicides occurred due to gay bullying and gay conversion / non acceptance by their community. The fact its better is not a reason to say its all OK when it clearly is not.



I'm not saying it's ok. I'm specifically saying that it doesn't only affect children. That the adults who hear his words will have been hearing this all their life, so even if they're extremely comfortable and strong in themselves the pervasive homophobia, even if "only" words, will get to them.

Did you read what I said?


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:14 pm 
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Not really :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:37 pm 
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Lets put it this way, gay kids of families who are very religious are forced to hide in closets cause they feel that their parents and church will not accept them if they come out, a big a douche folau is, he is a very handsome man, what if one of these closeted kids idolized Folau in more ways than one only to see his idol make comments which doesn't only affect them psychologically but may affect them physically too..when you are a role model the first thing you always do is to choose your words wisely when you speak to people or speak out your thoughts..a majority of ppl who don't give a shit about religion do randomly like religious post made by these so-called idols but only if they choose the quotes which doesn't really attack or offend people, Folau intentionally targeted gay people not once but twice, it just goes to show he really doesn't care about gay people and that he looks down upon them ...please stop saying that kids should not pick sports people as role models, no one chooses who their role model will be on the go..it takes time and when they pick one they admire and then they go on and do this, it can hurt them badly.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Crazy Ed wrote:
The point of my simplified analogy was to remind people that the truth lies somewhere in between the everybody is topping themselves and nobody gives a shit what IF thinks.

From my personal experience my gay relations are probably the most confident and comfortable mentally of all my close family. Hence my belief that most people will be able to interpret or ignore somebodies online posts as they see fit. They should also be able to have the discretion not to subscribe to literature or online content that may offend them.


Right cos that's the only issue at hand. While I agree that nanny states have created horrible environments of victimism and thin-skinned people who get offended by anything, there is a bigger issue at play here. It's not just about suicide, it's about social norms. While within certain religious circles this kind of talk may be acceptable, I would wager that if someone brought up this subject at a social gathering and said that homosexuals were going to hell he or she would get a verbal battering and probably not be invited to join them again. It's a type of social democracy that shapes our behaviour, everything we do we learn. Hence sexist jokes/behaviour, racial slurs and stereotypes and homophobia get called out more often than not (depending on the country, Spain for example is still very permissive)

edited


Last edited by Toro on Wed May 22, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Toro wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
The point of my simplified analogy was to remind people that the truth lies somewhere in between the everybody is topping themselves and nobody gives a shit what IF thinks.

From my personal experience my gay relations are probably the most confident and comfortable mentally of all my close family. Hence my belief that most people will be able to interpret or ignore somebodies online posts as they see fit. They should also be able to have the discretion not to subscribe to literature or online content that may offend them.


Right cos that's the only issue at hand. While I agree that nanny states have created horrible environments of victimism and thin-skinned people who get offended by anything, there is a bigger issue at play here. It's not just about suicide, it's about social norms. While within certain religious circles this kind of talk may be acceptable, I would wager that if someone brought up this subject and said that homosexuals were going to hell he or she would get a verbal battering and probably not be invited to join them again. It's a type of social democracy that shapes our behaviour, everything we do we learn. Hence sexist jokes/behaviour, racial slurs and stereotypes and homophobia get called out more often than not (depending on the country, Spain for example is still very permissive)


Yup, offending people's sensibilities is the least of the issues really, and something that's been covered ad nauseum throughout this thread.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:26 pm 
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Crazy Ed wrote:
The point of my simplified analogy was to remind people that the truth lies somewhere in between the everybody is topping themselves and nobody gives a shit what IF thinks.

From my personal experience my gay relations are probably the most confident and comfortable mentally of all my close family. Hence my belief that most people will be able to interpret or ignore somebodies online posts as they see fit. They should also be able to have the discretion not to subscribe to literature or online content that may offend them.

And no one is claiming everyone is topping themselves


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Dark wrote:

Quote:
Not abusive to anyone? He has repeatedly stated that homosexuals, simply for being who it is that they are, are bound for Hell.


And?

Does he say he agrees with it. Likes it.

He is just spouting crap from the bible

Quote:
If that is not cruel and abusive then again you have a f**ked up idea about what is.


The vast majority of even christians don't believe in a literal hell.

You do. I get it. and apologise if its scary what god says

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:13 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
It's not hard.

I asked you a direct question. I'm waiting for you to answer it.



I agree it’s not hard to understand I’m not interested in engaging with you.

If you weren’t such an overt twat to posters who see thing differently to you I would answer it.

You’re going to be waiting a long time.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:16 pm 
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Harveys wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
It's not hard.

I asked you a direct question. I'm waiting for you to answer it.



I agree it’s not hard to understand I’m not interested in engaging with you.

If you weren’t such an overt twat to posters who see thing differently to you I would answer it.

You’re going to be waiting a long time.


Deflection and denial then.

You like to refer to Jung a lot. Consider the process of projection when you accuse me and others of acting the twat when others disagree.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Other posters while being disagreeable have still posted in relatively good faith, the handful you fall into don’t, but you know that.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:34 pm 
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As I said, projection is something you could consider.

You will recall early on in this thread how you shouted down anyone who disagreed with your claim that IF would get off under anti discrimination law. You belittled and laughed at those of us who argued that.

You argue in circles and disappear when the heat comes on, only to reappear later and inject the same rubbish argument, as Uncle FB noted. Here you are claiming good faith.

That's laughable.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:00 pm 
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“Shouted down” "belittled and laughed at". Your accusing me of projection?


Last edited by Harveys on Wed May 22, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:04 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
Harveys wrote:
comets wrote:
IMO, tolerating religions is the same as defending religions honestly..tolerating and enabling religions is why we are in this mess in the first place, not just Folau but EVERYTHING.


So what about All the other ideologies that have minority’s that swing to extremes.


Which ideologies do you have in mind? Outside of “religions”?


Tribalism and Politics.


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Harveys wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
It's not hard.

I asked you a direct question. I'm waiting for you to answer it.



I agree it’s not hard to understand I’m not interested in engaging with you.

If you weren’t such an overt twat to posters who see thing differently to you I would answer it.

You’re going to be waiting a long time.

You are the twat who ignores pertinent questions all the time


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:18 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Harveys wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
It's not hard.

I asked you a direct question. I'm waiting for you to answer it.



I agree it’s not hard to understand I’m not interested in engaging with you.

If you weren’t such an overt twat to posters who see thing differently to you I would answer it.

You’re going to be waiting a long time.

You are the twat who ignores pertinent questions all the time


I ignore baiting yes.

How many different troll accounts have you had in here again?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:55 am 
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Ted. wrote:
Harden up!!! wrote:
Who is this peterson? At least its a Personality Trait not a disorder, dealing with people with personality disorders can be hell.



Jordon Peterson.

It could be a disorder, too. :nod:


Thanks ted


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:25 am 
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Harveys wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Harveys wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
It's not hard.

I asked you a direct question. I'm waiting for you to answer it.



I agree it’s not hard to understand I’m not interested in engaging with you.

If you weren’t such an overt twat to posters who see thing differently to you I would answer it.

You’re going to be waiting a long time.

You are the twat who ignores pertinent questions all the time


I ignore baiting yes.

How many different troll accounts have you had in here again?


Ignore it? You're a master of it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:02 am 
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I disagree. The arguments may well be circular but they are on both sides and I have allowed the conversation to help shape my position.
For the most part I felt the bulk of the discourse had been respectful.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:19 am 
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I think some posters can't separate their hate for religion from this debate about Folau.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:32 am 
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:lol: f**king wooosh.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:56 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
I think some posters can't separate their hate for religion from this debate about Folau.


C'mon bro as someone with links to Tonga you must see that, ultimately it's done PI's more harm than good and maybe it's time our communities stopped depending on it so much?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:58 am 
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Zakar wrote:
:lol: f**king wooosh.


:)


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:58 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
2018

Quote:
Folau said he has "no phobia towards anyone" but refused to back down on his beliefs, revealing he told Castle he would quit rugby if those beliefs were harming the game.

"I didn't agree with Bill Pulver taking a stance on the same-sex marriage vote on behalf of the whole organisation, but I understand the reasons behind why he did," he wrote.

"After we'd all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn't be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately."


2019
Quote:
Foxtel chief marketing officer Andy Lark told the Australian Financial Review that brands like Qantas want to associate themselves with high-integrity brands. “Australian rugby is now in the same situation with a player,” said Lark. “If you don’t subscribe to our brand values you don’t get to put on this jersey. That’s not just true for a rugby player, that’s true for any senior executive, or any employee.”

After Folau’s first Instagram post, Qantas threatened to withdraw sponsorship. After the second one Qantas declared it was pleased with RA’s swift condemnation of Folau’s comments and would await the outcome of their review.


@ Harvey
Do you think RA would have signed Folau to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again. ?
Do you think Folau thinks RA would have signed him to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again ?
Do you think it's coincidence the ink was just dry on his new contract and he did it again ?

Harvey doesn’t answer questions, I’ve asked him multiple on this thread and he’s ignored them.


@Harvey

Do you believe these questions are genuine or just baiting ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:14 am 
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Zakar wrote:
:lol: f**king wooosh.




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:33 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
2018

Quote:
Folau said he has "no phobia towards anyone" but refused to back down on his beliefs, revealing he told Castle he would quit rugby if those beliefs were harming the game.

"I didn't agree with Bill Pulver taking a stance on the same-sex marriage vote on behalf of the whole organisation, but I understand the reasons behind why he did," he wrote.

"After we'd all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn't be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately."


2019
Quote:
Foxtel chief marketing officer Andy Lark told the Australian Financial Review that brands like Qantas want to associate themselves with high-integrity brands. “Australian rugby is now in the same situation with a player,” said Lark. “If you don’t subscribe to our brand values you don’t get to put on this jersey. That’s not just true for a rugby player, that’s true for any senior executive, or any employee.”

After Folau’s first Instagram post, Qantas threatened to withdraw sponsorship. After the second one Qantas declared it was pleased with RA’s swift condemnation of Folau’s comments and would await the outcome of their review.


@ Harvey
Do you think RA would have signed Folau to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again. ?
Do you think Folau thinks RA would have signed him to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again ?
Do you think it's coincidence the ink was just dry on his new contract and he did it again ?

Harvey doesn’t answer questions, I’ve asked him multiple on this thread and he’s ignored them.


@Harvey

Do you believe these questions are genuine or just baiting ?


Harvey should ignore those questions, because they come from your ignorance (or concealment) of the process that has been gone through: When RA first met with Folau, they realised they could not put their requirements in a contract, so expressed them to him as their 'expectations'. When asked if IF had agreed to their expectations, the CEO said, 'He is aware of them.' He signed his contract and things were quiet for a bit, until Rugby Australia spoke about his 'unacceptable behaviour,' at which point he felt (he said this himself) they were saying his religious views are 'unacceptable' and could not let it be seen that he agrees with that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:36 am 
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mightyreds wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
2018

Quote:
Folau said he has "no phobia towards anyone" but refused to back down on his beliefs, revealing he told Castle he would quit rugby if those beliefs were harming the game.

"I didn't agree with Bill Pulver taking a stance on the same-sex marriage vote on behalf of the whole organisation, but I understand the reasons behind why he did," he wrote.

"After we'd all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn't be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately."


2019
Quote:
Foxtel chief marketing officer Andy Lark told the Australian Financial Review that brands like Qantas want to associate themselves with high-integrity brands. “Australian rugby is now in the same situation with a player,” said Lark. “If you don’t subscribe to our brand values you don’t get to put on this jersey. That’s not just true for a rugby player, that’s true for any senior executive, or any employee.”

After Folau’s first Instagram post, Qantas threatened to withdraw sponsorship. After the second one Qantas declared it was pleased with RA’s swift condemnation of Folau’s comments and would await the outcome of their review.


@ Harvey
Do you think RA would have signed Folau to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again. ?
Do you think Folau thinks RA would have signed him to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again ?
Do you think it's coincidence the ink was just dry on his new contract and he did it again ?

Harvey doesn’t answer questions, I’ve asked him multiple on this thread and he’s ignored them.


@Harvey

Do you believe these questions are genuine or just baiting ?


Harvey should ignore those questions, because they come from your ignorance (or concealment) of the process that has been gone through: When RA first met with Folau, they realised they could not put their requirements in a contract, so expressed them to him as their 'expectations'. When asked if IF had agreed to their expectations, the CEO said, 'He is aware of them.' He signed his contract and things were quiet for a bit, until Rugby Australia spoke about his 'unacceptable behaviour,' at which point he felt (he said this himself) they were saying his religious views are 'unacceptable' and could not let it be seen that he agrees with that.


That is your usual standard of hot garbage.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:43 am 
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This whole process continues with the LGBTI-driven media using deceit, distortion and concealment of the facts, as they have done from the start, when they reported the issue as an 'Israel Folau sends message of hate' situation, when it was actually 'Israel Folau responds to question from Twitter person baiting him over his religion, and person doesn't like the answer.'

The latest was Andrew Webster, whose comments on this issue have been particularly slimy, making one of those classic innuendo-based claims on his show: 'I know people in the Wallabies set-up who say Izzy did this because he was looking for a way to get out of the game'.
When Izzy declares his intention is to keep playing rugby for some time, and Webster is exposed as a liar, the media reports it under the headline 'Shocking Folau lie exposed,' as if IF is the liar. The whole intention is to continue the public perception they have pushed that IF 'keeps doing bad things.' Pathetic


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:47 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:23 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
2018

Quote:
Folau said he has "no phobia towards anyone" but refused to back down on his beliefs, revealing he told Castle he would quit rugby if those beliefs were harming the game.

"I didn't agree with Bill Pulver taking a stance on the same-sex marriage vote on behalf of the whole organisation, but I understand the reasons behind why he did," he wrote.

"After we'd all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn't be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately."


2019
Quote:
Foxtel chief marketing officer Andy Lark told the Australian Financial Review that brands like Qantas want to associate themselves with high-integrity brands. “Australian rugby is now in the same situation with a player,” said Lark. “If you don’t subscribe to our brand values you don’t get to put on this jersey. That’s not just true for a rugby player, that’s true for any senior executive, or any employee.”

After Folau’s first Instagram post, Qantas threatened to withdraw sponsorship. After the second one Qantas declared it was pleased with RA’s swift condemnation of Folau’s comments and would await the outcome of their review.


@ Harvey
Do you think RA would have signed Folau to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again. ?
Do you think Folau thinks RA would have signed him to a new contract if they thought he was going to do this again ?
Do you think it's coincidence the ink was just dry on his new contract and he did it again ?

Harvey doesn’t answer questions, I’ve asked him multiple on this thread and he’s ignored them.


@Harvey

Do you believe these questions are genuine or just baiting ?


Are you sure those questions weren’t answered at some point in this thread.

Regardless, my argument never had anything to do with his motives or how principled his actions were or weren’t.

Those questions answer themselves apart from the third one.

Obviously from RAs POV it’s a contractual issue that they are going to try to enforce.

My argument always was, will there be issues with fair work around religious discrimination, if so all the rest of that is irrelevant, completely irrelevant.
And truth be told it is still yet to be seen how it will all end.

As Fat prop mentioned a while back with his HR department saying “find another reason” when they had to deal with religious nonsense at work. I have heard similar.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:48 am 
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Posting on a phone is hell, if me dropping in and out of the conversation bothers you, BooHoo.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:14 am 
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Not exactly accurate, but he has a point

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:35 am 
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How many weeks would the domestic abusers, drug users and drunk drivers have received if they refused to apologise, comply with the ARU/RA’s subsequent requests, and then done it all over again?

Maybe they would also have their contracts terminated like Wendall Sailor.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:48 am 
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Yup, that argument has no substance.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:14 am 
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naki wrote:
How many weeks would the domestic abusers, drug users and drunk drivers have received if they refused to apologise, comply with the ARU/RA’s subsequent requests, and then done it all over again?

Maybe they would also have their contracts terminated like Wendall Sailor.


Did you seriously just compare a player saying the bible says Drunks, Homosexuals, Adulterers, Liars, Fornicators, Thieves, Atheists, Idolaters go to an imaginary place after death to players beating up their partners?

Ar you for f'ing real?

:?


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