Planet Rugby Forum

Wilderbeast wrote:Time for Scott Barrett to come “home”.

We'd probably ruin him.

Ted. wrote:

Wilderbeast wrote:Time for Scott Barrett to come “home”.

We'd probably ruin him.

Like we’re wrecking Jordie

Agree with OP completely.
Second stringers are so green they can photosynthesize.

It's definitely the weakest NZ conference since the inception of the conference system. Crusaders still look good to win the entire thing though and the AB's could still take the RWC so can't be too bad.

Hard to tell if the Blues have got better or do they just look better compared to the shit Chiefs.

Plumtree a bluffer He was a very good coach for the Sharks and coached the Irish forward pack.

The Canes have always had a strong backrow and a strong front rower like a Bull Allen, Norm Hewitt, etc but just not enough support to form a strong tight five.

I've seen nothing to change my belief that the 2019 NZ Conference is the weakest ever. The injury ravaged Chiefs are as weak as any NZ team every to play in this comp. They're currently only able to field a provincial standard team. And the Blues and Highlanders are also-rans this year. That leaves just the Crusaders ad the Hurricanes, and neither of these teams are playing as well as they did in 2017 or 2018.

Hard without refreshing knowledge and watching tons of old games - but i think you're right.

Saders + Canes off a bit - but i think they will step up under pressure.
Blues - good improvement
Landers - mix bag and inconsistent ingames and over games. Dangerous - sort of..
Chiefs - poor, injuries and rebuilding. Although im still hopeful for 8th and a game vs the saders.

Ali claimed Canes pack dominated Crusaders last time they played yet the forward pack is greener than ever....Ali with the usual flip flop.

Clog50Percent wrote:Ali claimed Canes pack dominated Crusaders last time they played yet the forward pack is greener than ever....Ali with the usual flip flop.

The Canes pack did dominate the Crusaders pack last time they played. In the set piece and at the breakdown. This was supported by statistics from the match, but anyone who watched the game could have told you that simply from what was on display.

The NZ teams are still leading overall though aren't they? Crusaders look like a shoe in for another title. NZ conference may be weak relative to the past five years but the Australian teams look extremely poor and the Saffer teams are no great shakes.

Perhaps this is the new reality in World Cup years. Nobody gives a shit about anything except the RWC this year.

Just checked the stats for the more recent structure of the comp:

2011 – 3,4, 8, 9 , 10 = ave 34/5 = 6.8
2012 – 2,4 8, 9, 12 = ave 35/5 = 7
2013 – 1,4, 10,11,14 = ave. 40/5 = 8
2014 – 1,5,6,7,10 = ave 29/5 = 5.8
2015 = 1,4,5,7,14 = 31/5 = 6.2
2016 = 1,5,6,7,11 = 30/5 = 6
2017 = 2,5,6,7,9 = 29/5 = 5.8
2018 = 1,4,5,6,14 = 30/5 = 6
(Based on position in ladder before finals)

2019 (currently) = 1,4,8,11, 14 = 38/5 = 7.6

So depends on 'recent' - 2013 was worse in comparison (at this stage).

booji boy wrote:The NZ teams are still leading overall though aren't they? Crusaders look like a shoe in for another title. NZ conference may be weak relative to the past five years but the Australian teams look extremely poor and the Saffer teams are no great shakes.

Perhaps this is the new reality in World Cup years. Nobody gives a shit about anything except the RWC this year.

That RWC cup year comment would only really apply when lots of players are rested like in 2007, when sharks bulls were the finalists (was this the last time the away team won the final ?)

backrow wrote:

booji boy wrote:The NZ teams are still leading overall though aren't they? Crusaders look like a shoe in for another title. NZ conference may be weak relative to the past five years but the Australian teams look extremely poor and the Saffer teams are no great shakes.

Perhaps this is the new reality in World Cup years. Nobody gives a shit about anything except the RWC this year.

That RWC cup year comment would only really apply when lots of players are rested like in 2007, when sharks bulls were the finalists (was this the last time the away team won the final ?)

No, unfortunately. The Highlanders won in Wellington in 2015.

backrow wrote:

booji boy wrote:The NZ teams are still leading overall though aren't they? Crusaders look like a shoe in for another title. NZ conference may be weak relative to the past five years but the Australian teams look extremely poor and the Saffer teams are no great shakes.

Perhaps this is the new reality in World Cup years. Nobody gives a shit about anything except the RWC this year.

That RWC cup year comment would only really apply when lots of players are rested like in 2007, when sharks bulls were the finalists (was this the last time the away team won the final ?)

The Crusaders won in Jo'burg in 2017. The Highlanders won in Wellington in 2014.

Ali's Choice wrote:

backrow wrote:

booji boy wrote:The NZ teams are still leading overall though aren't they? Crusaders look like a shoe in for another title. NZ conference may be weak relative to the past five years but the Australian teams look extremely poor and the Saffer teams are no great shakes.

Perhaps this is the new reality in World Cup years. Nobody gives a shit about anything except the RWC this year.

That RWC cup year comment would only really apply when lots of players are rested like in 2007, when sharks bulls were the finalists (was this the last time the away team won the final ?)

The Crusaders won in Jo'burg in 2017. The Highlanders won in Wellington in 2014.

Thanks chaps - am not a statto so genuinely forget past years. I would prefer each year the playooffs, semi and final location to be announced ahead, so that each city gets to be a host (bit like Eurovision Song Contest). This would help spread the game a bit to places like Argentina and japan.

There was one year when sharks did really well in playoffs but were buggered by the final game as they had flown all over the place.

Top spot would still be worth playing for as you would miss the playoffs so play one or two less games.

backrow wrote: There was one year when sharks did really well in playoffs but were buggered by the final game as they had flown all over the place.

Top spot would still be worth playing for as you would miss the playoffs so play one or two less games.

2012, I think. They went to Aus & won, went back to SA & won then came to NZ & got beaten heavily in the final by the Chiefs. Having to travel 2 weeks in a row was just too much. From memory the Brumbies had similar issues the following year.

One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

Looks like it will run 2012 and 2013 close.

will we ever again sink to the levels of 2002 or was it 2001?

Harden up!!! wrote:will we ever sink to the levels of 2002 or was it 2001?

There was no conference system back then.

Ali's Choice wrote:

Harden up!!! wrote:will we ever sink to the levels of 2002 or was it 2001?

There was no conference system back then.

I mean in terms of just sucking, that was the year with no NZ team in the top 6? And apparently in a couple years there will no longer be a conference system.

Harden up!!! wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Harden up!!! wrote:will we ever sink to the levels of 2002 or was it 2001?

There was no conference system back then.

I mean in terms of just sucking, that was the year with no NZ team in the top 6? And apparently in a couple years there will no longer be a conference system.

2002 was the Crusaders perfect season wasn't it? I think it was 2001 when there weren't any NZ teams in the semis.

JB1981 wrote:

Harden up!!! wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Harden up!!! wrote:will we ever sink to the levels of 2002 or was it 2001?

There was no conference system back then.

I mean in terms of just sucking, that was the year with no NZ team in the top 6? And apparently in a couple years there will no longer be a conference system.

2002 was the Crusaders perfect season wasn't it? I think it was 2001 when there weren't any NZ teams in the semis.

2001 - look at the crowd numbers. Should have left it at 12 teams. Very depressing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Super_12_season

When the best kiwi team can’t best the worst Safa team you know you’re in trouble.

kiwigreg369 wrote:Just checked the stats for the more recent structure of the comp:

2011 – 3,4, 8, 9 , 10 = ave 34/5 = 6.8
2012 – 2,4 8, 9, 12 = ave 35/5 = 7
2013 – 1,4, 10,11,14 = ave. 40/5 = 8
2014 – 1,5,6,7,10 = ave 29/5 = 5.8
2015 = 1,4,5,7,14 = 31/5 = 6.2
2016 = 1,5,6,7,11 = 30/5 = 6
2017 = 2,5,6,7,9 = 29/5 = 5.8
2018 = 1,4,5,6,14 = 30/5 = 6
(Based on position in ladder before finals)

2019 (currently) = 1,4,8,11, 14 = 38/5 = 7.6

So depends on 'recent' - 2013 was worse in comparison (at this stage).

Good stats.
Sadly I think the standard of the overall comp is also very low this year, which means we are doing comparatively badly in a poorer competition.
The standard looks like a post world cup year, not a pre world cup year which is very worrying for the future of rugby in NZ.

merlin the happy pig wrote:

kiwigreg369 wrote:Just checked the stats for the more recent structure of the comp:

2011 – 3,4, 8, 9 , 10 = ave 34/5 = 6.8
2012 – 2,4 8, 9, 12 = ave 35/5 = 7
2013 – 1,4, 10,11,14 = ave. 40/5 = 8
2014 – 1,5,6,7,10 = ave 29/5 = 5.8
2015 = 1,4,5,7,14 = 31/5 = 6.2
2016 = 1,5,6,7,11 = 30/5 = 6
2017 = 2,5,6,7,9 = 29/5 = 5.8
2018 = 1,4,5,6,14 = 30/5 = 6
(Based on position in ladder before finals)

2019 (currently) = 1,4,8,11, 14 = 38/5 = 7.6

So depends on 'recent' - 2013 was worse in comparison (at this stage).

Good stats.
Sadly I think the standard of the overall comp is also very low this year, which means we are doing comparatively badly in a poorer competition.
The standard looks like a post world cup year, not a pre world cup year which is very worrying for the future of rugby in NZ.

Position on the ladder is meaningless, as no conference can have more than one team in the top 3.

The Canes are really in second place on competition points

naki wrote:

merlin the happy pig wrote:

kiwigreg369 wrote:Just checked the stats for the more recent structure of the comp:

2011 – 3,4, 8, 9 , 10 = ave 34/5 = 6.8
2012 – 2,4 8, 9, 12 = ave 35/5 = 7
2013 – 1,4, 10,11,14 = ave. 40/5 = 8
2014 – 1,5,6,7,10 = ave 29/5 = 5.8
2015 = 1,4,5,7,14 = 31/5 = 6.2
2016 = 1,5,6,7,11 = 30/5 = 6
2017 = 2,5,6,7,9 = 29/5 = 5.8
2018 = 1,4,5,6,14 = 30/5 = 6
(Based on position in ladder before finals)

2019 (currently) = 1,4,8,11, 14 = 38/5 = 7.6

So depends on 'recent' - 2013 was worse in comparison (at this stage).

Good stats.
Sadly I think the standard of the overall comp is also very low this year, which means we are doing comparatively badly in a poorer competition.
The standard looks like a post world cup year, not a pre world cup year which is very worrying for the future of rugby in NZ.

Position on the ladder is meaningless, as no conference can have more than one team in the top 3.

The Canes are really in second place on competition points

Not sure if he adjusted by just using points and ignoring the first in conference rule.

Assume he didn't, and the stats are not comparable with pre conference years.

Subjectively I've never seen the tournament so lacking in skills. There are good aspects to be sure, some fine young talent is coming through, but the really basic stuff like lineouts, high balls, and tackling is overall pretty ordinary.

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Jags are playing very well this year, that result didn't surprise me at all. They've bowled all the Saffa teams, home and away. Conversly, the Canes have been limping along all season.

What is more surprising is the Blues were the only Kiwi team to win this weekend. Who woulda thunk?

With just two kiwi teams in the top 8 the media is starting to believe in weakness. Hurricanes have a hell of a tour coming up as well.

JPNZ wrote:With just two kiwi teams in the top 8 the media is starting to believe in weakness. Hurricanes have a hell of a tour coming up as well.

There is no doubt that the Chiefs and Highlanders are weaker this year than at any time over the previous half decade or more. They have had terrible injury tolls and this has exposed their lack of depth.

Part of the problem has also been that the NZ conference is also very uneven. The Crusaders and Hurricanes are bullying the rest of the teams, and winning all their NZ derby games. This is why they are the two leading teams in the comp on points.

The Blues are arguably stronger this year than they've been in a decade.

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

ArnoldVDH wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

interesting, so if the table stays as it is there will possibly be no knockout games at all in South Africa this year or possibly two games from the semis on?

Crusaders host the Lions.
The Bulls go to Buenos Aires to take on the Jaguares
The Brumbies get the Sharks
The Hurricanes have the Rebels

Mr Mike wrote:

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

interesting, so if the table stays as it is there will possibly be no knockout games at all in South Africa this year or possibly two games from the semis on?

Crusaders host the Lions.
The Bulls go to Buenos Aires to take on the Jaguares
The Brumbies get the Sharks
The Hurricanes have the Rebels

Indeed.

Though it’s impossible to predict who will come out on top in that conference, all their teams are so inconsistent.

naki wrote:

Mr Mike wrote:

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

interesting, so if the table stays as it is there will possibly be no knockout games at all in South Africa this year or possibly two games from the semis on?

Crusaders host the Lions.
The Bulls go to Buenos Aires to take on the Jaguares
The Brumbies get the Sharks
The Hurricanes have the Rebels

Indeed.

Though it’s impossible to predict who will come out on top in that conference, all their teams are so inconsistent.

The NZ teams surely. Saders and Chiefs as examples

naki wrote:

Mr Mike wrote:

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

interesting, so if the table stays as it is there will possibly be no knockout games at all in South Africa this year or possibly two games from the semis on?

Crusaders host the Lions.
The Bulls go to Buenos Aires to take on the Jaguares
The Brumbies get the Sharks
The Hurricanes have the Rebels

Indeed.

Though it’s impossible to predict who will come out on top in that conference, all their teams are so inconsistent.

Looks like the Jags have it wrapped up now (just Sunwolves at home left)? 1,2 and 4 settled?

1. Crusaders
2. Jags
3. Open
4. Hurricanes
5-8 all Open.

Mr Mike wrote:

naki wrote:

Mr Mike wrote:

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

interesting, so if the table stays as it is there will possibly be no knockout games at all in South Africa this year or possibly two games from the semis on?

Crusaders host the Lions.
The Bulls go to Buenos Aires to take on the Jaguares
The Brumbies get the Sharks
The Hurricanes have the Rebels

Indeed.

Though it’s impossible to predict who will come out on top in that conference, all their teams are so inconsistent.

Looks like the Jags have it wrapped up now (just Sunwolves at home left)? 1,2 and 4 settled?

1. Crusaders
2. Jags
3. Open
4. Hurricanes
5-8 all Open.

The Jags have the Shorks at home as well as the SWs. Need to win one to clinch it.

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

The fact the winner of the SA is still unknown implies its competitive.

As opposed to the NZ conference where the winner was known before the competition even started with the Hurricanes coming second.

But hey, continue to be delusional and think that is what makes the NZ conference so competitive.

Ted. wrote:

Wilderbeast wrote:Time for Scott Barrett to come “home”.

We'd probably ruin him.

The way he handled ALB this week we'd probably stick him @ centre

ArnoldVDH wrote:

naki wrote:

ArnoldVDH wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:One of our strongest teams, the Hurricanes, just got humped by struggling expansion team the Jaguares. A team that has never played finals Rugby. All signs point to the fact that the 2019 NZ conference is the weakest ever.

The Saffer conference is now the most competitive conference.

Four of the teams are in the top 8

I assume you mean competitive against each other.

None of the SA teams are even in the top 5 based on competition points. It’s a conference of mediocrity at best.

The fact the winner of the SA is still unknown implies its competitive.

As opposed to the NZ conference where the winner was known before the competition even started with the Hurricanes coming second.

But hey, continue to be delusional and think that is what makes the NZ conference so competitive.

Yes, that’s why I said “I assume you mean competitive against each other”. Because the SA conference certainly is.

But I hope you’re implying that this means the conference is strong. There are no SA teams in the top 4. The Argentinians are well on top. SA teams have only won 4 out of 14 games against NZ opposition.

These are not signs of strength. They are a sign of four equally average teams