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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:10 am 
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Wales online's ratings - think they're over generous in many areas. Think both centres could be 5s. Defensively they were good, but aimless kicks from Roberts, knock ons, turnovers...didn't think they were that great. Good hard working performance from the pack, but think there are probably too many 7s.

Gareth Anscombe 8
With the Lions about to call up five or six players, Anscombe is a contender, given his versatility, his knowledge of New Zealand rugby and the fact he is right on hand.
He would have advanced his cause with the way he darted through to release Cuthbert for his try, having almost created one for him with a pinpoint cross kick.
A classy display.

Alex Cuthbert 7
If at first - or second - you don’t succeed, try, try again.
Came tantalisingly close to scoring twice in opening six minutes, just putting an elbow in touch and then failing to get downward pressure. But wasn’t to be denied as he won the race to his own chip through for a fine finish.
Off at half-time having hurt his shoulder in second attempt.

Scott Williams 6
Playing in the unaccustomed outside centre berth, he made one nice break and was solid in defence, but his hands let him down on one occasion and he lost the ball in contact on another.
Had a spell in the blood bin in the second half, enabling Owen Williams to make his Test debut, before rejoining the fray.

Jamie Roberts 6
Captaining Wales for the first time has clearly meant a huge amount to a man who has achieved most things in the game of rugby, but has never done this job before.

Steffan Evans 6
There has been a clamour for this season’s top try scorer in the PRO12 to get his chance for some time now and he didn’t let himself down as he finally made his Test debut.
Made 44 metres from his five runs and put in 14 tackles with a big defensive shift. Will benefit from the experience.

Sam Davies 7
Missed three out of his first four kicks at goal, but showed real character as he then landed three important ones in the second half to give Wales some breathing space and kicked well out of hand.
Looked to take on the defence and put in a couple of nice half-backs without quite having the product at the end of them.

Gareth Davies 7
Making his first Test start since last November against South Africa, he relished the physical challenge laid down by the Tongas and responded with a physical display, while also getting the ball away smoothly to the backs.
Left the fray 10 minutes from time, allowing fellow Scarlet Aled Davies to make his Test debut.

Nicky Smith 7
With both Gethin Jenkins and Rob Evans missing the tour through injury, Smith is very much the senior loosehead in the tour squad at the tender age of 23 and he responded with a big rearguard performance in the loose, putting in 13 tackles, coming off late on for Wyn Jones to debut.

Kristian Dacey 7
Making his first start for his country, the Cardiff Blues hooker made a sizeable contribution during his hour on the pitch, making seven carries and seven tackles, while showing good hands early on as he fed Cuthbert for the first of the winger’s close shaves.
Made way for debutant Ryan Elias.

Tomas Francis 6
As the one experienced tight-head in the squad, Francis has a big responsibility and put in a long old shift, playing for 78 minutes before eventually coming off to allow Dillon Lewis to win his first cap for his country.
The scrum was a bit of a mess generally, with penalties going back and fore.

Seb Davies 7
What a story it’s been for the young man. Was playing in the centre at youth level just three years ago and is now a Test second row.
It had been a case of Seb Who for many when he was first called up and then selected to start, given his limited regional rugby, but they know now, as he put in ten tackles and looked comfortable with ball in hand.

Cory Hill 8
Handed the vice captaincy and has really risen to the challenge as the senior lock in this tour party, really growing in stature and relishing the pack leader role.
Was a strong presence at the lineout and just an all round commanding figure, putting in 14 tackles, a really impressive tally for a second row.

Aaron Shingler 6
Drafted into the tour squad as a replacement for the injured James King, he went straight into the starting line-up on the blindside, which was due reward for his outstanding form for the Scarlets this season.
Was the joint tap tackler in the Welsh team, with 14 hits.

Josh Navidi 7
Four years on from winning his only other cap against Japan, this Cardiff Blues stalwart would have been determined to make up for lost time and he put in a typically all-action display, with nine carries and 12 tackles, stepping up to the No 8 challenge with Faletau and Moriarty away with the Lions.

Thomas Young 7
Making his Wales debut 30 years almost to the day from when his father Dai did, the Wasps flanker put in a display which his watching old man would have been proud of.
Made good ground when he carried and put in 10 tackles in his 60 minute stint, as well as claiming a crucial turnover.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:43 am 
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Ellis Jenkins came on and played really well


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:47 am 
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Frodder wrote:
Ellis Jenkins came on and played really well


Yes, very prominent. He impresses me every time I see him play, has that instinct to be in the right place.

Lots of pluses today, but Samoa will want to make a point after that hammering by NZ today. We'll need to be much better.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:46 pm 
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penguin wrote:
Frodder wrote:
Ellis Jenkins came on and played really well


Yes, very prominent. He impresses me every time I see him play, has that instinct to be in the right place.

Lots of pluses today, but Samoa will want to make a point after that hammering by NZ today. We'll need to be much better.


He was decent, but no James Davies.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:06 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
penguin wrote:
Frodder wrote:
Ellis Jenkins came on and played really well


Yes, very prominent. He impresses me every time I see him play, has that instinct to be in the right place.

Lots of pluses today, but Samoa will want to make a point after that hammering by NZ today. We'll need to be much better.


He was decent, but no James Davies.


Different but both excellent. Jenkins has that McCaw-ish quality of being there ahead of others, and making good decisions. James Davies deserved to be out there too, don't get me wrong, but no need to downplay the talents of one man to build up another.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Samoa is going to be a very different test but I think there is quite a bit to be happy about. It is a very different Wales side and if there are better conditions next time and Wales cut down on the errors there is no reason they shouldn't beat Samoa. The forward battle will be a real tough one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:59 pm 
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Without welsh tinted specs on,

Anscombe 8
Cuthbert 5 fluffed two easy finishes
S.Williams 4 did he play?
Roberts 3 Oh god, can't teach an old dog....
S.evs 6 No opportunity, went looking
S.Davies 3 Fluffed the opportuity to put wales 16-0 clear in 20 minutes, was generally shit, bar kick for territory
G.Davies 6 the usual

Navidi 6 as expected, too small for international
Singler 4 absent
young 5 see navidi
Davies 5 for a first start, at that age, with no"leaders" not bad
Hill 4 plays for the dragons
Francis 4 fatman against a tier 2 scrum
Dacey 5 not enough grunt,
Smith 4 should be 4th choice


Anscombe, as I've said time and time again is so far ahead, especially of same davies, who, has no attacking threat I've come to realise, he's slow and hasn't a running game where did that belief come from????


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Theflier wrote:
Hill 4 plays for the dragons?


Image


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Well, this is awkward. It would appear that our coach has screwed the pooch and devalued the Lions. It is indefensible. I know he said he would do something along these lines and I understand the call-ups from a basic coverage option but Jesus, for the sake of convenience he has caused a massive and unnecessary shitstorm and undermined the concept, Woodward-esque style.

An (unlikely) series win may head off the bollocking and minimise the long-term ramifications but let's be honest, he has dropped a sizeable bollock here.

He's undermined our own tour, heaped pressure on this one, potentially caused internal squad friction, put four players in an incredibly shit position and fecked off players and supporters from all the other nations. It is a bewildeningly daft decision. How nobody reigned him in is beyond me.

Tomas fecking Francis. Dory bloody Hill. For christsakes.

Final nail in the coffin for me. Short of a miracle series win, he's got to get binned.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Gatland is here until the 2019 world cup, whatever happens with the Lions he has won Wales 2 grand slams, got them to a world cup semi and out of a horrendous group of death at the 2015 world cup. I don't see the WRU dropping him before then but after that he has said he is leaving hasn't he? We'll have to start looking for the next kiwi coach for Wales, who is it going to be?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:25 pm 
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This U20 championship has been very disappointing for Wales. They have played some terrible rugby.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:43 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
This U20 championship has been very disappointing for Wales. They have played some terrible rugby.


If we had Ben Jones and Kieron Williams at 10 and 12 would've been a different story imo. So obvious that we lacked direction here


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Clive Simms wrote:
bessantj wrote:
This U20 championship has been very disappointing for Wales. They have played some terrible rugby.


If we had Ben Jones and Kieron Williams at 10 and 12 would've been a different story imo. So obvious that we lacked direction here


They just looked so uninterested. I have to admit that I haven't seen all their games but what I have seen has been very disappointing. They played a lot better in the 6 nations and I hope that when next years U20 6N comes around that the likes of Kieran Williams are back in the side.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:07 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
bessantj wrote:
This U20 championship has been very disappointing for Wales. They have played some terrible rugby.


If we had Ben Jones and Kieron Williams at 10 and 12 would've been a different story imo. So obvious that we lacked direction here


They just looked so uninterested. I have to admit that I haven't seen all their games but what I have seen has been very disappointing. They played a lot better in the 6 nations and I hope that when next years U20 6N comes around that the likes of Kieran Williams are back in the side.


Interesting that they did the same last year. Smashed it in the 6 nations but were a no show at the World Cup!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:14 am 
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henry wrote:
Well, this is awkward. It would appear that our coach has screwed the pooch and devalued the Lions. It is indefensible. I know he said he would do something along these lines and I understand the call-ups from a basic coverage option but Jesus, for the sake of convenience he has caused a massive and unnecessary shitstorm and undermined the concept, Woodward-esque style.

An (unlikely) series win may head off the bollocking and minimise the long-term ramifications but let's be honest, he has dropped a sizeable bollock here.

He's undermined our own tour, heaped pressure on this one, potentially caused internal squad friction, put four players in an incredibly shit position and fecked off players and supporters from all the other nations. It is a bewildeningly daft decision. How nobody reigned him in is beyond me.

Tomas fecking Francis. Dory bloody Hill. For christsakes.

Final nail in the coffin for me. Short of a miracle series win, he's got to get binned.



Cory Hill - Lions
Cory Hill - Lions
Cory Hill - Lions

It doesn't matter how many times I type it still doesn't sink in


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:17 am 
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Clive Simms wrote:
bessantj wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
bessantj wrote:
This U20 championship has been very disappointing for Wales. They have played some terrible rugby.


If we had Ben Jones and Kieron Williams at 10 and 12 would've been a different story imo. So obvious that we lacked direction here


They just looked so uninterested. I have to admit that I haven't seen all their games but what I have seen has been very disappointing. They played a lot better in the 6 nations and I hope that when next years U20 6N comes around that the likes of Kieran Williams are back in the side.


Interesting that they did the same last year. Smashed it in the 6 nations but were a no show at the World Cup!


It's a bit strange. If it happens next year you have to question the staff as to why this pattern seems to be emerging.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:44 am 
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Frodder wrote:
henry wrote:
Well, this is awkward. It would appear that our coach has screwed the pooch and devalued the Lions. It is indefensible. I know he said he would do something along these lines and I understand the call-ups from a basic coverage option but Jesus, for the sake of convenience he has caused a massive and unnecessary shitstorm and undermined the concept, Woodward-esque style.

An (unlikely) series win may head off the bollocking and minimise the long-term ramifications but let's be honest, he has dropped a sizeable bollock here.

He's undermined our own tour, heaped pressure on this one, potentially caused internal squad friction, put four players in an incredibly shit position and fecked off players and supporters from all the other nations. It is a bewildeningly daft decision. How nobody reigned him in is beyond me.

Tomas fecking Francis. Dory bloody Hill. For christsakes.

Final nail in the coffin for me. Short of a miracle series win, he's got to get binned.



Cory Hill - Lions
Cory Hill - Lions
Cory Hill - Lions

It doesn't matter how many times I type it still doesn't sink in


It's a disgrace. Truly. Same with Francis and the other fella I can't even by arsed to look up.

Feel bad for them. Largest asterisk ever next to their name. Must be awkward within the squad and it's just so unnecessary.

Apparently, the calls were made on the basis of geographic convenience and the fact that Cory Hill trained with them in Wales before they went to Dublin so knows the calls and a few of the lads. Precious little comfort to genuine injury cover options and potential test contenders like Gray and Launchbury.

I know Gatland does not give a feck for public opinion but this move just breeds ill-will and damages the whole concept long-term. It is meant to be the pinnacle of the sport for B&I players - this sort of nonsensical carry-on just undermines that and breeds indifference. I can't believe he got away with it - how he wasn't cautioned, moderated or reigned in surprises me.

Next Lions coach - needs to be a Brit. Never thought I'd type that but it needs to be someone who properly understands the concept. I'd go for someone like Dean Richards.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:09 am 
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So with Cuthbert out of the Samoa game thoughts on who to have on the wings? Steff Evans and Keelan Giles? What about Rhun Williams starting at FB?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:26 am 
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bessantj wrote:
So with Cuthbert out of the Samoa game thoughts on who to have on the wings? Steff Evans and Keelan Giles? What about Rhun Williams starting at FB?


Williams was injured before the tour wasn't he? Has to be Giles I'd imagine...which would make the back 3 pretty exciting.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:30 am 
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Team likely to look something like this.

1. Nicky Smith
2. Ryan Elias
3. Dillon Lewis
4. Seb Davies
5. Rory Thornton/Adam Beard
6. Aaron Shingler
7. Thomas Young
8. Josh Navidi
9. Aled Davies
10. Sam Davies
11. Keelan Giles/Corey Allen
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. Steff Evans
15. Gareth Anscombe

Very inexperienced front 5, could be tough going.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:43 am 
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penguin wrote:
bessantj wrote:
So with Cuthbert out of the Samoa game thoughts on who to have on the wings? Steff Evans and Keelan Giles? What about Rhun Williams starting at FB?


Williams was injured before the tour wasn't he? Has to be Giles I'd imagine...which would make the back 3 pretty exciting.


Was he? fudge.

penguin wrote:
Team likely to look something like this.

1. Nicky Smith
2. Ryan Elias
3. Dillon Lewis
4. Seb Davies
5. Rory Thornton/Adam Beard
6. Aaron Shingler
7. Thomas Young
8. Josh Navidi
9. Aled Davies
10. Sam Davies
11. Keelan Giles/Corey Allen
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. Steff Evans
15. Gareth Anscombe

Very inexperienced front 5, could be tough going.


Good I hope it is tough going, we're going to need more players to prove themselves, give them a good run out and see what they can do.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:59 am 
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bessantj wrote:
penguin wrote:
bessantj wrote:
So with Cuthbert out of the Samoa game thoughts on who to have on the wings? Steff Evans and Keelan Giles? What about Rhun Williams starting at FB?


Williams was injured before the tour wasn't he? Has to be Giles I'd imagine...which would make the back 3 pretty exciting.


Was he? fudge.

penguin wrote:
Team likely to look something like this.

1. Nicky Smith
2. Ryan Elias
3. Dillon Lewis
4. Seb Davies
5. Rory Thornton/Adam Beard
6. Aaron Shingler
7. Thomas Young
8. Josh Navidi
9. Aled Davies
10. Sam Davies
11. Keelan Giles/Corey Allen
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. Steff Evans
15. Gareth Anscombe

Very inexperienced front 5, could be tough going.


Good I hope it is tough going, we're going to need more players to prove themselves, give them a good run out and see what they can do.


I think that front 3 has some serious quality...but we'll see. It's exceptionally young - Nicky Smith is a veteran comparatively at 23.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:21 am 
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I don't think Seb Davies deserves another start.

Shingler into the row and Jenkins in? Jenkins merits a start.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:24 am 
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Crash_12 wrote:
I don't think Seb Davies deserves another start.

Shingler into the row and Jenkins in? Jenkins merits a start.


Irrespective of whether he deserves it, Samoa are not Tonga. They will have a team where the majority will essentially be Kiwis. We can't just throw people in and out of positions. Davies is clearly raw, but he's also a unit, and we'll need some of that against Samoa.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:44 am 
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Start the two Osprey lads then, Seb Davies has played less than a handful of games at lock.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:56 am 
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Crash_12 wrote:
I don't think Seb Davies deserves another start.

Shingler into the row and Jenkins in? Jenkins merits a start.


Jenkins was excellent last week...but if I remember correctly the Samoan pack was pretty big. If we go two inexperienced props and also a lighter player at second row are we not begging to get humped in the scrums?

Is Scott Baldwin there? He might come into the starting team to give some experience.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:03 pm 
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penguin wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
I don't think Seb Davies deserves another start.

Shingler into the row and Jenkins in? Jenkins merits a start.


Jenkins was excellent last week...but if I remember correctly the Samoan pack was pretty big. If we go two inexperienced props and also a lighter player at second row are we not begging to get humped in the scrums?

Is Scott Baldwin there? He might come into the starting team to give some experience.


Baldwin will have to play if Dacey is with the Lions and he gets game time tomorrow.

Cory Hill is with Lions......I mean Cory Hill is with the Lions


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
penguin wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
I don't think Seb Davies deserves another start.

Shingler into the row and Jenkins in? Jenkins merits a start.


Jenkins was excellent last week...but if I remember correctly the Samoan pack was pretty big. If we go two inexperienced props and also a lighter player at second row are we not begging to get humped in the scrums?

Is Scott Baldwin there? He might come into the starting team to give some experience.


Baldwin will have to play if Dacey is with the Lions and he gets game time tomorrow.

Cory Hill is with Lions......I mean Cory Hill is with the Lions


About time, can't believe it's taken this long to get the call up...and meanwhile the English have been banging on about Joe Launchbury. Unbelievable parochialism.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:38 pm 
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From Dragon to Lion, the rise of Sir Cory Hill. I'd not be surprised if he ended up curing cancer or something. The Mighty Dragons production line is going full steam these days.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Its OK folks. Lord Bald has jumped off his perch and decreed that any criticism of Gatland is "nonsense" and talk of devaluing the jersey is an attitude from a "bygone era". The forgotten hero of English rugby arrives in NZ later this week.I encourage all kiwis to extend him the fullest hospitality and to ensure that he is well and truly taken care of. Naturally he expects to see a Lions series win :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:50 am 
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Last Line wrote:
Its OK folks. Lord Bald has jumped off his perch and decreed that any criticism of Gatland is "nonsense" and talk of devaluing the jersey is an attitude from a "bygone era". The forgotten hero of English rugby arrives in NZ later this week.I encourage all kiwis to extend him the fullest hospitality and to ensure that he is well and truly taken care of. Naturally he expects to see a Lions series win :lol:


Being defended by SCW x(


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:36 am 
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Frodder wrote:
Last Line wrote:
Its OK folks. Lord Bald has jumped off his perch and decreed that any criticism of Gatland is "nonsense" and talk of devaluing the jersey is an attitude from a "bygone era". The forgotten hero of English rugby arrives in NZ later this week.I encourage all kiwis to extend him the fullest hospitality and to ensure that he is well and truly taken care of. Naturally he expects to see a Lions series win :lol:


Being defended by SCW x(


:nod:

If there were any lingering doubts, clearly Gats has made a bad move if that self-promoting arseclown is on his side.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:28 am 
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So I didn't see the Lions game but it looks like Liam Williams had a great game. How was Biggar?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:30 am 
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bessantj wrote:
So I didn't see the Lions game but it looks like Liam Williams had a great game. How was Biggar?


Biggar was his usual self. You know standing flat, alway challenging the line, very few up and unders and respectful to the ref.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:32 am 
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Clive Simms wrote:
bessantj wrote:
So I didn't see the Lions game but it looks like Liam Williams had a great game. How was Biggar?


Biggar was his usual self. You know standing flat, alway challenging the line, very few up and unders and respectful to the ref.


Good. Safe pair of hands, sharp pass, solid defence. Top man.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:33 am 
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bessantj wrote:
So I didn't see the Lions game but it looks like Liam Williams had a great game. How was Biggar?


Ok, behind a dominant pack but also outside Laidlaw so not as easy as it could have been - passing was mainly good, played relatively flat for him, couple of good moments, but also a poor pass when they had a penalty advantage 10 metres out and gave away a penalty for a high tackle...but a bit unfortunate there as the guy was slipping. Overall a 6/10, meh, kind of performance. Not going to trouble the selectors on that showing.

Liam Williams was very good. 15 really suits his running game, so many more options when he has the whole of the pitch ahead of him. Zero tackles - if ever there was a stat that told you how dominant the Lions were it's that one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:35 am 
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bessantj wrote:
So I didn't see the Lions game but it looks like Liam Williams had a great game. How was Biggar?


He was very good. Took the ball up to the gain line. Made the right decisions and defended very well as he always does. There's not much to choose between him and Sexton on this tour, so hopefully Biggar will get minutes in a test at some point.

I would hope that those that slated the decision not to take Finn Russell ahead of Biggar now see how good Biggar is. But I doubt it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:37 am 
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penguin wrote:
Liam Williams was very good. 15 really suits his running game, so many more options when he has the whole of the pitch ahead of him. Zero tackles - if ever there was a stat that told you how dominant the Lions were it's that one.


Excellent. That's really what you want from Liam as well a good running game. When he gets going forward his line of attack can be unpredictable.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Location: Leafy Cheshire
bessantj wrote:
penguin wrote:
Liam Williams was very good. 15 really suits his running game, so many more options when he has the whole of the pitch ahead of him. Zero tackles - if ever there was a stat that told you how dominant the Lions were it's that one.


Excellent. That's really what you want from Liam as well a good running game. When he gets going forward his line of attack can be unpredictable.


He ain't playing though is he? Bench at the very best

Anyhoo how did our Cory play?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
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Frodder wrote:
bessantj wrote:
penguin wrote:
Liam Williams was very good. 15 really suits his running game, so many more options when he has the whole of the pitch ahead of him. Zero tackles - if ever there was a stat that told you how dominant the Lions were it's that one.


Excellent. That's really what you want from Liam as well a good running game. When he gets going forward his line of attack can be unpredictable.


He ain't playing though is he? Bench at the very best

Anyhoo how did our Cory play?


Impeccable. Couldn't be faulted. Flawless. Even the Irish agree he did nothing wrong - that bench was toasty as at the end of the game.


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