Planet Rugby Forum

Coming second due to 1 interception against Ireland and 1 missed try against England and we could have won the title. With what is, a rather confused and disjointed team. I think the new style of play is the main culprit for our woes at the breakdown, it seems numbers in attack means problems in recycling at the breakdown, who knew?

Frodder wrote:I can't watch Scrum V yet as I gave up day time drinking many years ago.

Regarding our scrum it was getting hammered until Nicky Smith came on and stabilised it.

I reckon it had more to do with Lee coming on. The Frog loosehead was getting underneath Francis, but got absolutely no changes from Lee who lowered the scrum by about half a foot on his side (Smith also made a difference though).

bessantj wrote:

Da iawn diolch wrote:I was actually pretty disappointed by the pack yesterday.
Even though we sometimes tell ourselves that we have 'world class' players in the front 8, we still struggle with the basics of collective play. Our scrum was repeatedly marmalised, our maul play (both in attack and defence) remains one of the worst in the tournament, and there was just a hideous inevitability of conceding possession/penalties when we try to go through the phases.

I can't remember the last time this wasn't the case - I honestly haven't a f**king clue what McBride is doing to earn a wage at times.

Yeah some of the Welsh forward play has been pretty sad, the mauls as you say has been terrible and the work at the breakdown has on times left a lot to be desired.

I believe, and often stated, that we are forever on the precipice of the evolutionary physicality war that is being waged across pro rugby year on year, generation on generation. Whenever we produce stronger, bigger, dynamic players...someone else produces slightly stronger, slightly bigger and slightly more dynamic players. It is forever an uphill battle for our pack to just gain parity, let alone be the best.

It's worth noting that even though we came second, we lost the gainline battle for great swathe of this tournament. Only against Scotland did we comprehensively win that battle. Even Italy managed to play keep-ball against, and make yards doing it, for reasonable periods of tim.

Like the backs coach, we've needed a new injection of blood in the forward coaching role for some time. As noted, our mauls are pish (and always have been), and our lineouts and scrums hover between average to bad.

I suppose ultimately though, no coach is going to make our forwards stronger and more dynamic.

Guys just a quick one to answer a query on the Irish thread. How many of your players have 4 6N medals ? Gethin , AWJ, Adam ?

Conspicuous wrote:Guys just a quick one to answer a query on the Irish thread. How many of your players have 4 6N medals ? Gethin , AWJ, Adam ?

I think AWJ only has 3. I reckon it's only Jenkins and Adam that have 4.

Jeff the Bear wrote:

Conspicuous wrote:Guys just a quick one to answer a query on the Irish thread. How many of your players have 4 6N medals ? Gethin , AWJ, Adam ?

I think AWJ only has 3. I reckon it's only Jenkins and Adam that have 4.

Cheers Jeff

We will only go far in the WC if we play the long game with Patchell at 10. With Parkes and JD outside him there is no reason he will be exposed defensively. Regardless he has played 15 several times and never looks like the weak link. The back play during the Scotland game for 60 minutes was too good to ignore. It makes a world of difference to challenge a defence with a 10 who could literally do anything and regularly bring the ball to the line. Biggar kills us so bad. The move about 50 minutes yesterday when we went on the blind side and had a 4 on 2 was so painful to watch.

Jeff the Bear wrote:

bessantj wrote:

Da iawn diolch wrote:I was actually pretty disappointed by the pack yesterday.
Even though we sometimes tell ourselves that we have 'world class' players in the front 8, we still struggle with the basics of collective play. Our scrum was repeatedly marmalised, our maul play (both in attack and defence) remains one of the worst in the tournament, and there was just a hideous inevitability of conceding possession/penalties when we try to go through the phases.

I can't remember the last time this wasn't the case - I honestly haven't a f**king clue what McBride is doing to earn a wage at times.

Yeah some of the Welsh forward play has been pretty sad, the mauls as you say has been terrible and the work at the breakdown has on times left a lot to be desired.

I believe, and often stated, that we are forever on the precipice of the evolutionary physicality war that is being waged across pro rugby year on year, generation on generation. Whenever we produce stronger, bigger, dynamic players...someone else produces slightly stronger, slightly bigger and slightly more dynamic players. It is forever an uphill battle for our pack to just gain parity, let alone be the best.

It's worth noting that even though we came second, we lost the gainline battle for great swathe of this tournament. Only against Scotland did we comprehensively win that battle. Even Italy managed to play keep-ball against, and make yards doing it, for reasonable periods of tim.

Like the backs coach, we've needed a new injection of blood in the forward coaching role for some time. As noted, our mauls are pish (and always have been), and our lineouts and scrums hover between average to bad.

I suppose ultimately though, no coach is going to make our forwards stronger and more dynamic.

Yes, and no. I don't think our players are miles behind the standard for individual strength/dynamism, but collectively they are significantly weaker than the sum of their parts. I've given up on screaming at lazy play and upright pushing in mauls - we're clearly missing something in coaching there. Likewise forward carrying - we're more often out-thought than out-muscled, losing patience or running away from support by flinging the ball wide.
That screams coaching, rather than individuals.

I cannot recall, ever, so little Welsh threat against France before in Cardiff. Tbf, Murrayfield aside, the French have pretty much stopped every side playing (themselves included it seems). Not much to congratulate you guys for on Saturday, bar the victory, but I have certainly enjoyed the Welsh performances this 6N and 2nd place in a non-vintage year was not only achieved but deserved.

The fact that on a welsh rugby show, in the highlights package, from the second half the only welsh possession that they showed was Shingler stealing the lineout at the end, tells you everything. Turgid, uninspiring stuff. More depressing still was the fact that we could see it coming from selection.

We need to be thinking like NZ - we can't hope to be the biggest and strongest (sure, work hard in the gym to be as big and strong as we can, but we can't hope to dominate there), so work on dynamism and speed of thought.

The backline looked like last season's backline - why everyone can see that Biggar, for all his virtues, is not getting the most out of the talent out wide, but Gatland and co can't is bizarre. England put pressure on the French lineout (5 steals) and we decide not to select Shingler when he has put pressure on lineouts in every game. Bad call. He finally gets on and does exactly that. Tipuric and Navidi to offer two jackallers, but we end up holding up in the tackle rather than chopping down and jackalling. Shingler again would have been better for this. All very frustrating.

penguin wrote:The fact that on a welsh rugby show, in the highlights package, from the second half the only welsh possession that they showed was Shingler stealing the lineout at the end, tells you everything. Turgid, uninspiring stuff. More depressing still was the fact that we could see it coming from selection.

We need to be thinking like NZ - we can't hope to be the biggest and strongest (sure, work hard in the gym to be as big and strong as we can, but we can't hope to dominate there), so work on dynamism and speed of thought.

The backline looked like last season's backline - why everyone can see that Biggar, for all his virtues, is not getting the most out of the talent out wide, but Gatland and co can't is bizarre. England put pressure on the French lineout (5 steals) and we decide not to select Shingler when he has put pressure on lineouts in every game. Bad call. He finally gets on and does exactly that. Tipuric and Navidi to offer two jackallers, but we end up holding up in the tackle rather than chopping down and jackalling. Shingler again would have been better for this. All very frustrating.

The non selection of Shingler was 1 of the more baffling decisions as with all due to respect to Tips he ain't no 6. As you say we all saw it coming and the Scott over Watkin was another bad call. What baffled me was in the 2nd half we didn't know what the ball looked and when we did get we kicked it away. We didn't change anything in the backs at all (did we sub anyone?) and it was a return to the same ol' same ol'

Frodder wrote: The non selection of Shingler was 1 of the more baffling decisions as with all due to respect to Tips he ain't no 6. As you say we all saw it coming and the Scott over Watkin was another bad call. What baffled me was in the 2nd half we didn't know what the ball looked and when we did get we kicked it away. We didn't change anything in the backs at all (did we sub anyone?) and it was a return to the same ol' same ol'

No - I don't think so. Aled Davies, Anscombe and Steff Evans all unused as far as I know. This is the Biggar dilemma that the coaches have - they can see that the game is tight, but they don't trust the substitutes to change the style, up the tempo, and attack, and instead worry about the relative defensive frailties. It's possible that he could have subbed those guys on and Steff Evans might have missed a tackle or got turned over...but it's also possible that with Anscombe at 10 we would have started to play flatter off 10, made the space for the centres, created the overlaps and the wingers would have had something to play with.

penguin wrote:

Frodder wrote: The non selection of Shingler was 1 of the more baffling decisions as with all due to respect to Tips he ain't no 6. As you say we all saw it coming and the Scott over Watkin was another bad call. What baffled me was in the 2nd half we didn't know what the ball looked and when we did get we kicked it away. We didn't change anything in the backs at all (did we sub anyone?) and it was a return to the same ol' same ol'

No - I don't think so. Aled Davies, Anscombe and Steff Evans all unused as far as I know. This is the Biggar dilemma that the coaches have - they can see that the game is tight, but they don't trust the substitutes to change the style, up the tempo, and attack, and instead worry about the relative defensive frailties. It's possible that he could have subbed those guys on and Steff Evans might have missed a tackle or got turned over...but it's also possible that with Anscombe at 10 we would have started to play flatter off 10, made the space for the centres, created the overlaps and the wingers would have had something to play with.

We pay too much respect to England and France, and there is no need. It didn't influnce our england selection much but it did big time against France.

penguin wrote:The fact that on a welsh rugby show, in the highlights package, from the second half the only welsh possession that they showed was Shingler stealing the lineout at the end, tells you everything. Turgid, uninspiring stuff. More depressing still was the fact that we could see it coming from selection.

We need to be thinking like NZ - we can't hope to be the biggest and strongest (sure, work hard in the gym to be as big and strong as we can, but we can't hope to dominate there), so work on dynamism and speed of thought.

The backline looked like last season's backline - why everyone can see that Biggar, for all his virtues, is not getting the most out of the talent out wide, but Gatland and co can't is bizarre. England put pressure on the French lineout (5 steals) and we decide not to select Shingler when he has put pressure on lineouts in every game. Bad call. He finally gets on and does exactly that. Tipuric and Navidi to offer two jackallers, but we end up holding up in the tackle rather than chopping down and jackalling. Shingler again would have been better for this. All very frustrating.

I am actually depressed about our downward spiral from the Scotland game to the French one. Absolutely time warped back 2 years. Having had time to think about it though I see a glimmer of hope. I just think Gatland believes we don't have the muscle up front - at least yet. That whoever we put in at #10 against the larger packs is going to be playing wth 25% ball on the back foot. We have a reasonable chance with Biggar in that role, and it would not assist winning or player/team development by putting in Anscombe or Patchell. Note that I believe Priestland is still the man. Anyway, maybe his plan is to get that forward umph developed in the summer of 2019 over 2-3 months - he loves that time wth the boys, to mold them in his image. And he is good, very good at that. So the French game was seen as a write off for development, just a win, a 2nd place, a couple of milllion extra in the bank and move on. If he picks Biggar as starter for the summer tour AND then again more importantly in the AIs, then I truly have no idea what he is trying to do.

LandOTurk wrote:

penguin wrote:The fact that on a welsh rugby show, in the highlights package, from the second half the only welsh possession that they showed was Shingler stealing the lineout at the end, tells you everything. Turgid, uninspiring stuff. More depressing still was the fact that we could see it coming from selection.

We need to be thinking like NZ - we can't hope to be the biggest and strongest (sure, work hard in the gym to be as big and strong as we can, but we can't hope to dominate there), so work on dynamism and speed of thought.

The backline looked like last season's backline - why everyone can see that Biggar, for all his virtues, is not getting the most out of the talent out wide, but Gatland and co can't is bizarre. England put pressure on the French lineout (5 steals) and we decide not to select Shingler when he has put pressure on lineouts in every game. Bad call. He finally gets on and does exactly that. Tipuric and Navidi to offer two jackallers, but we end up holding up in the tackle rather than chopping down and jackalling. Shingler again would have been better for this. All very frustrating.

I am actually depressed about our downward spiral from the Scotland game to the French one. Absolutely time warped back 2 years. Having had time to think about it though I see a glimmer of hope. I just think Gatland believes we don't have the muscle up front - at least yet. That whoever we put in at #10 against the larger packs is going to be playing wth 25% ball on the back foot. We have a reasonable chance with Biggar in that role, and it would not assist winning or player/team development by putting in Anscombe or Patchell. Note that I believe Priestland is still the man. Anyway, maybe his plan is to get that forward umph developed in the summer of 2019 over 2-3 months - he loves that time wth the boys, to mold them in his image. And he is good, very good at that. So the French game was seen as a write off for development, just a win, a 2nd place, a couple of milllion extra in the bank and move on. If he picks Biggar as starter for the summer tour AND then again more importantly in the AIs, then I truly have no idea what he is trying to do.

Good point, you can always find a use for 2 million, but let's be prepared to lose our tour games if we develop too.

Jeff the Bear wrote:

bessantj wrote:

Da iawn diolch wrote:I was actually pretty disappointed by the pack yesterday.
Even though we sometimes tell ourselves that we have 'world class' players in the front 8, we still struggle with the basics of collective play. Our scrum was repeatedly marmalised, our maul play (both in attack and defence) remains one of the worst in the tournament, and there was just a hideous inevitability of conceding possession/penalties when we try to go through the phases.

I can't remember the last time this wasn't the case - I honestly haven't a f**king clue what McBride is doing to earn a wage at times.

Yeah some of the Welsh forward play has been pretty sad, the mauls as you say has been terrible and the work at the breakdown has on times left a lot to be desired.

I believe, and often stated, that we are forever on the precipice of the evolutionary physicality war that is being waged across pro rugby year on year, generation on generation. Whenever we produce stronger, bigger, dynamic players...someone else produces slightly stronger, slightly bigger and slightly more dynamic players. It is forever an uphill battle for our pack to just gain parity, let alone be the best.

It's worth noting that even though we came second, we lost the gainline battle for great swathe of this tournament. Only against Scotland did we comprehensively win that battle. Even Italy managed to play keep-ball against, and make yards doing it, for reasonable periods of tim.

Like the backs coach, we've needed a new injection of blood in the forward coaching role for some time. As noted, our mauls are pish (and always have been), and our lineouts and scrums hover between average to bad.

I suppose ultimately though, no coach is going to make our forwards stronger and more dynamic.

Some of it seemed lazy as well. A player would make a break, or just a yard or two, get tackled and the opposition would be on him. The tackled would then have either no support or that of only one player. The ball would then be turned over or they would give away a penalty.

If all of the Welsh Lions are out for the Summer games, what sort of team are we likely to field?

We can still play the like of Rob Evans, Elliot Dee, Samson Lee, Nicky Smith, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis...so front row and bench can stay the same. Hill must be nailed on for one spot, but do we go with experience in Brad Davies or Jake Ball, or try the guys like Seb Davies and Adam Beard? I feel like backrow we can rest Toby and Tips and we'll still have good options in Navidi, Moriarty, Shingler, Ellis Jenkins, James Davies, and the likes of Thomas Young and Ollie Griffiths to cover the rested players. Of the pack it's just the locks that worry me.

Gareth Davies to be 1st choice. Tomos Williams to stake a claim at 9? I find Aled Davies a bit beige as a scrumhalf.

If Biggar were to be rested who is the next 10 to join Patchell and Anscombe? Dan Jones has acquitted himself well in big games, Jarrod Evans has quite a bit of x factor (but some really bad charged down kicks at the weekend), Sam Davies has still not found his best form but who knows with a good end to the season...or does Owen Williams get the 3rd spot, covering it and 12?

I'd like to see Owen Lane come in, and for Josh Adams to get another shot. Anyone else likely to make a late run in the centres and back 3 if Jonathan Davies, 1/2p, North and Liam Williams were rested?

penguin wrote:If all of the Welsh Lions are out for the Summer games, what sort of team are we likely to field?

We can still play the like of Rob Evans, Elliot Dee, Samson Lee, Nicky Smith, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis...so front row and bench can stay the same. Hill must be nailed on for one spot, but do we go with experience in Brad Davies or Jake Ball, or try the guys like Seb Davies and Adam Beard? I feel like backrow we can rest Toby and Tips and we'll still have good options in Navidi, Moriarty, Shingler, Ellis Jenkins, James Davies, and the likes of Thomas Young and Ollie Griffiths to cover the rested players. Of the pack it's just the locks that worry me.

Gareth Davies to be 1st choice. Tomos Williams to stake a claim at 9? I find Aled Davies a bit beige as a scrumhalf.

If Biggar were to be rested who is the next 10 to join Patchell and Anscombe? Dan Jones has acquitted himself well in big games, Jarrod Evans has quite a bit of x factor (but some really bad charged down kicks at the weekend), Sam Davies has still not found his best form but who knows with a good end to the season...or does Owen Williams get the 3rd spot, covering it and 12?

I'd like to see Owen Lane come in, and for Josh Adams to get another shot. Anyone else likely to make a late run in the centres and back 3 if Jonathan Davies, 1/2p, North and Liam Williams were rested?

Obviously Hallam Amos but apart from him not sure. Corey Allen went on Samoa trip, so possibly him too. How is Jack Dixon playing? Steff Hughes is only 24 but has captained Scarlets from centre this season already such are his perceived leadership qualities. Worth a shot yet?

LandOTurk wrote:

penguin wrote:If all of the Welsh Lions are out for the Summer games, what sort of team are we likely to field?

We can still play the like of Rob Evans, Elliot Dee, Samson Lee, Nicky Smith, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis...so front row and bench can stay the same. Hill must be nailed on for one spot, but do we go with experience in Brad Davies or Jake Ball, or try the guys like Seb Davies and Adam Beard? I feel like backrow we can rest Toby and Tips and we'll still have good options in Navidi, Moriarty, Shingler, Ellis Jenkins, James Davies, and the likes of Thomas Young and Ollie Griffiths to cover the rested players. Of the pack it's just the locks that worry me.

Gareth Davies to be 1st choice. Tomos Williams to stake a claim at 9? I find Aled Davies a bit beige as a scrumhalf.

If Biggar were to be rested who is the next 10 to join Patchell and Anscombe? Dan Jones has acquitted himself well in big games, Jarrod Evans has quite a bit of x factor (but some really bad charged down kicks at the weekend), Sam Davies has still not found his best form but who knows with a good end to the season...or does Owen Williams get the 3rd spot, covering it and 12?

I'd like to see Owen Lane come in, and for Josh Adams to get another shot. Anyone else likely to make a late run in the centres and back 3 if Jonathan Davies, 1/2p, North and Liam Williams were rested?

Obviously Hallam Amos but apart from him not sure. Corey Allen went on Samoa trip, so possibly him too. How is Jack Dixon playing? Steff Hughes is only 24 but has captained Scarlets from centre this season already such are his perceived leadership qualities. Worth a shot yet?

Amos would have been there, considering he's part of the squad now (and was excellent in the AIs too), but he's going to be with wales 7s. I was thinking more the guys outside...so yeah, the likes of Steff Hughes and Jack Dixon. Dixon is injured again...so doubt he'll tour as I think it's a season ender.

Keelan Giles if fit, Ashton Hewitt...Aled Summerhill, Rhun Williams or Garyn Smith at the Blues. Quite a few there with not a lot of rugby recently.

Looks like the Blues are doing things on the cheap again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43442640

Frodder wrote:Looks like the Blues are doing things on the cheap again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43442640

Pivac was hardly a star name when he arrived...so who knows. Maybe a chance to find someone who is better value for money than 'known quantities' like Jim Mallinder or Geordan Murphy.

Uzair Cassiem has signed for the Scarlets. Will be interesting to see how he blends into that backrow with the likes of Shingler and James Davies.

Also, Sarel Pretorius to leave the Dragons - hardly unexpected, but of the 9s there this season he was not the one I wanted to go first. Jackman has not seemed to trust him, and with Rhodri Williams and Rhodri Davies coming next season, the writing was always on the wall really.

Dragons team to face the Cheetahs;

Dragons: Z Kirchner, A Hewitt, S Beard, C Edwards, H Amos, A Robson, S Pretorius, S Hobbs, E Dee, L Fairbrother, J Davies, C Hill (captain), H Keddie, A Wainwright, L Evans. Replacements: E Shipp, G Ellis, D Suter, M Williams, T Basham, D Babos, A Warren J Rosser.

One of the better XVs we've put out lately. However the bench is pretty raw - three u20s, a converted hooker covering loosehead, Rosser and Shipp are 20.

Still with Amos and Hewitt out wide we'll at least provide some threat ball in hand...I hope.

penguin wrote:

Frodder wrote:Looks like the Blues are doing things on the cheap again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43442640

Pivac was hardly a star name when he arrived...so who knows. Maybe a chance to find someone who is better value for money than 'known quantities' like Jim Mallinder or Geordan Murphy.

True. But he came over as the forwards coach before Simon Easterby moved to Ireland within weeks of the new season. I am unsure if I would say Blues are doing it on the cheap, it may be a case of which top coach can they get? This may be the best value option.

LandOTurk wrote:

penguin wrote:

Frodder wrote:Looks like the Blues are doing things on the cheap again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43442640

Pivac was hardly a star name when he arrived...so who knows. Maybe a chance to find someone who is better value for money than 'known quantities' like Jim Mallinder or Geordan Murphy.

True. But he came over as the forwards coach before Simon Easterby moved to Ireland within weeks of the new season. I am unsure if I would say Blues are doing it on the cheap, it may be a case of which top coach can they get? This may be the best value option.

I read the interview and he came across well. I think the polisher of talent/skills and tempo approach seems perfect for the Blues squad as they stand...but hope they can sort their bullsh*t out behind the scenes and provide some stability. A lot of good players there right now and they need to kick on soon.

I missed this announcement:

Team Wales at next month's Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast.
Luke Treharne*, Ethan Davies*, Morgan Williams*, James Benjamin, Angus O'Brien, Adam Thomas (c)*, Luke Morgan*, Justin Tipuric, Owen Jenkins*, Hallam Amos, Benjamin Roach*, Tom Williams*.

Kind of exciting to see Tips and Amos in the squad but not really sure of their recent 7s experience...?

LandOTurk wrote:
True. But he came over as the forwards coach before Simon Easterby moved to Ireland within weeks of the new season. I am unsure if I would say Blues are doing it on the cheap, it may be a case of which top coach can they get? This may be the best value option.

Its a poor signing, but between williams, anscombe, willis, lee-lo and tom(and when he was here patch) we've scored some of the best tries in the league over the last 3 years, and with what I'd argue is one of the top 5 forwards coach in the british isles as well, is there any more to come out of this blues team? Matthew Morgan and bent leinster refs reffing leinster aside.

The bloke needs free reign, which is a huge cliche, but I mean the ability to do things like immediate termination of contracts with warburton, cuthbert and jenkins who together must be well over a million yet never play, a large coaching budget(apparently 1 million which is fair) and budget assurances for at least his term.

However if he is, was or ever would be a decent coach, his CV would say it by now and at the end of the day this is a bloke who has been given a job, far higher than his credentials suggest he's capable of.

Ospreys sign Georgian skipper on short term cover

Ospreys Rugby today completed the signing of Giorgi Nemsadze, captain of the Georgian national team, on a short-term deal that runs until the end of the season.


http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/51734

GWO2 wrote:Ospreys sign Georgian skipper on short term cover

Ospreys Rugby today completed the signing of Giorgi Nemsadze, captain of the Georgian national team, on a short-term deal that runs until the end of the season.


http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/51734

I don't have all the facts to make the decison, but I struggle to see the point of this unless it is a way to entice him to the Ospreys?? Better to blood a youngster. With 5 games to go, they are 22 points behind the Cheetahs. There are no playoffs this year. Is it chasing Euro quaification? Unsure how it works.

Edit:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro14
As for European qualification, the South African teams are ineligible at this time for European Competition. However seven places remain for teams competing in the competition, despite the change of format. The top three teams in each conference, excluding the South African teams if necessary, will gain qualification into the Champions Cup. The fourth placed teams in each conference will take part in a play-off for the seventh place in the Champions Cup.

Theflier wrote:
Its a poor signing, but between williams, anscombe, willis, lee-lo and tom(and when he was here patch) we've scored some of the best tries in the league over the last 3 years, and with what I'd argue is one of the top 5 forwards coach in the british isles as well, is there any more to come out of this blues team? Matthew Morgan and bent leinster refs reffing leinster aside.

The bloke needs free reign, which is a huge cliche, but I mean the ability to do things like immediate termination of contracts with warburton, cuthbert and jenkins who together must be well over a million yet never play, a large coaching budget(apparently 1 million which is fair) and budget assurances for at least his term.

However if he is, was or ever would be a decent coach, his CV would say it by now and at the end of the day this is a bloke who has been given a job, far higher than his credentials suggest he's capable of.

Warburton will surely be on a central contract?

Pretty pleased with the Blues lately. Good result on Saturday on the back of some others. With some promising front 5 players it's the 1st time in a wee while I've felt confident. I want Lane to have a crack at 13 for the Blues and maybe Wales in the long term.

Frodder wrote:Pretty pleased with the Blues lately. Good result on Saturday on the back of some others. With some promising front 5 players it's the 1st time in a wee while I've felt confident. I want Lane to have a crack at 13 for the Blues and maybe Wales in the long term.

Agree about Lane. He didn't get into the game that much this weekend but I think his hard running could be great at 13. A good counter balance to the side stepping of Lee-lo or Halaholo. Jarrod Evans is also looking a real talent. Has he got the brain to be a top class 10 or is he going to be another Hook - capable of looking world class ball in hand, but unable to control a game? That step on Henderson was a thing of beauty. Tomos Williams is class too.

In a couple of years I think Dillon Lewis, Carre, Domachowski and Assiratti looks like a great set of props.

If Mulvihill is good at developing talent then he's got plenty to work with. Also reports today that he's looking to bring in Jason Strange and Tom Smith as assistants. Could be a good way to bring Strange through as a head coach longer term.

From a Dragons perspective, another joyful weekend . How many opportunities butchered? One positive was the performance of Arwel Robson; some lovely running, distribution and control - the choice to take a snap drop goal was excellent. With a better platform and Rhodri Williams at 9 next season he could kick on. Still hope we can sign Owen Williams but might be too much to hope for.

Too many individual errors, especially when we got 5 yards from the line - and that restart after half time. The drop by Pretorius was bad, Amos' kick was worse and then the lack of defensive alignment...bloody hell. A triumvirate of shite that was.

Also Kirchner. Back at 15 where he is supposedly more comfortable, but I'm not seeing much evidence that he brings any leadership. I'm increasingly disappointed with his contributions. I did worry when we signed him, as he hand't impressed me when I saw him for Leinster, but I'd rather we were playing Amos at 15 and playing the young wingers like Rosser or Dyer.

penguin wrote:From a Dragons perspective, another joyful weekend . How many opportunities butchered? One positive was the performance of Arwel Robson; some lovely running, distribution and control - the choice to take a snap drop goal was excellent. With a better platform and Rhodri Williams at 9 next season he could kick on. Still hope we can sign Owen Williams but might be too much to hope for.

Too many individual errors, especially when we got 5 yards from the line - and that restart after half time. The drop by Pretorius was bad, Amos' kick was worse and then the lack of defensive alignment...bloody hell. A triumvirate of shite that was.

Also Kirchner. Back at 15 where he is supposedly more comfortable, but I'm not seeing much evidence that he brings any leadership. I'm increasingly disappointed with his contributions. I did worry when we signed him, as he hand't impressed me when I saw him for Leinster, but I'd rather we were playing Amos at 15 and playing the young wingers like Rosser or Dyer.

That was painful viewing on Friday. The continued inclusion of Kirchner puzzles in the fact he's total shite. Amos, Dee and Hewitt looked a cut above anything the Dragons had out there. Next season they'll be supplemented with an excellent 9 and 6. With Ollie G back your back row will be fine as well as the half backs. The scrum is a roller skates show but with Bevington there that may help. You must be well frustrated.

Frodder wrote:

penguin wrote:From a Dragons perspective, another joyful weekend . How many opportunities butchered? One positive was the performance of Arwel Robson; some lovely running, distribution and control - the choice to take a snap drop goal was excellent. With a better platform and Rhodri Williams at 9 next season he could kick on. Still hope we can sign Owen Williams but might be too much to hope for.

Too many individual errors, especially when we got 5 yards from the line - and that restart after half time. The drop by Pretorius was bad, Amos' kick was worse and then the lack of defensive alignment...bloody hell. A triumvirate of shite that was.

Also Kirchner. Back at 15 where he is supposedly more comfortable, but I'm not seeing much evidence that he brings any leadership. I'm increasingly disappointed with his contributions. I did worry when we signed him, as he hand't impressed me when I saw him for Leinster, but I'd rather we were playing Amos at 15 and playing the young wingers like Rosser or Dyer.

That was painful viewing on Friday. The continued inclusion of Kirchner puzzles in the fact he's total shite. Amos, Dee and Hewitt looked a cut above anything the Dragons had out there. Next season they'll be supplemented with an excellent 9 and 6. With Ollie G back your back row will be fine as well as the half backs. The scrum is a roller skates show but with Bevington there that may help. You must be well frustrated.

Next season we should have Bevington and Brok Harris competing for that loosehead spot, so Hobbs won't be such an issue. Ellis actually did alright I thought - for a guy who has never played prop before a month ago or so, he's done well in the scrum, got a turnover and made quite a few big tackles. We might be on to something with him.

With Hibbard, Moriarty, Griffiths, Cudd back from injury, Rhodri Williams at 9, and then more line breaking firepower from Jordan Williams, who can hopefully keep out Kirchner from the 15 spot, alongside Amos and Hewitt, it starts to look more promising. More ball carrying, more line breaking ability and more control.

Still think that with Cory Hill flanked by the likes of Joe Davies and Max Williams we desperately need something more in the second row to allow them to come through.

And what happened to the big signing that was rumoured a few weeks back? All gone quiet on that front.

Wales Online piece about Martyn Madden - what a legend. Part of that generation of Welsh rugby players that didn't seem to notice that the professional era had begun. Great to watch - would love wales to have a ball carrying prop like him at tighthead.

Interesting to see him talk about Jenkins at Llanelli who wanted him to be big, and Hansen pushing to have him lose weight, and him getting caught in a no mans land between the two coaches.

penguin wrote:From a Dragons perspective, another joyful weekend . How many opportunities butchered? One positive was the performance of Arwel Robson; some lovely running, distribution and control - the choice to take a snap drop goal was excellent. With a better platform and Rhodri Williams at 9 next season he could kick on. Still hope we can sign Owen Williams but might be too much to hope for.

Too many individual errors, especially when we got 5 yards from the line - and that restart after half time. The drop by Pretorius was bad, Amos' kick was worse and then the lack of defensive alignment...bloody hell. A triumvirate of shite that was.

Also Kirchner. Back at 15 where he is supposedly more comfortable, but I'm not seeing much evidence that he brings any leadership. I'm increasingly disappointed with his contributions. I did worry when we signed him, as he hand't impressed me when I saw him for Leinster, but I'd rather we were playing Amos at 15 and playing the young wingers like Rosser or Dyer.

I worry about the Dragons, I can't see the WRU keeping them round for long if they don't start winning. WRU can't afford to keep losing that much money.

bessantj wrote:

penguin wrote:From a Dragons perspective, another joyful weekend . How many opportunities butchered? One positive was the performance of Arwel Robson; some lovely running, distribution and control - the choice to take a snap drop goal was excellent. With a better platform and Rhodri Williams at 9 next season he could kick on. Still hope we can sign Owen Williams but might be too much to hope for.

Too many individual errors, especially when we got 5 yards from the line - and that restart after half time. The drop by Pretorius was bad, Amos' kick was worse and then the lack of defensive alignment...bloody hell. A triumvirate of shite that was.

Also Kirchner. Back at 15 where he is supposedly more comfortable, but I'm not seeing much evidence that he brings any leadership. I'm increasingly disappointed with his contributions. I did worry when we signed him, as he hand't impressed me when I saw him for Leinster, but I'd rather we were playing Amos at 15 and playing the young wingers like Rosser or Dyer.

I worry about the Dragons, I can't see the WRU keeping them round for long if they don't start winning. WRU can't afford to keep losing that much money.

If next season is like this season then I'd worry, but even then the first option would be to ditch Jackman rather than kill the whole thing. It's been depressing the last few months, no doubt at all, but the players coming in will provide the leadership, experience and control we lack. Get the senior players back like Griffiths, Cudd, Brok Harris, add in the likes of Hibbard, Moriarty, Bevington and Rhodri Williams, and we'll start to turn some of these close games into wins...and then a bit of confidence will start to build. (Also get a new attack coach - there were glimpses of an attacking game earlier in the season, and it's gone to sh*t the last couple of months).

I am waiting for next season and the new arrivals to see the real state of the Dragons. They can't be any worse than the last few seasons at any rate.

bessantj wrote:I am waiting for next season and the new arrivals to see the real state of the Dragons. They can't be any worse than the last few seasons at any rate.

They've certainly set a low water mark this season, but it has been a ridiculous season for injuries. I don't think it has been coincidental that things have got worse without Gav at 10 as well. A bit of experience in key positions goes a long way, and also things have got worse since Kirchner came back from injury (alright, I'm just being cruel now, but it does seem like we can't do right since about when he came back).