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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Clive Simms wrote:
Incredible result this tour. We were underdogs in every match with the bookies.

Biggest pluses are

Great defensive structure that works whoever you chop and change into the system
Genuine partners / alternatives to Alun Wyn stepping up
Maul defence against two of the tradionally strongest mauling teams
Tomos Williams and Dillon Lewis look to belong at this level and now look great prospects
James Davies can be effective at test level
Moriarty is over his injury and looks top class
Josh Adams looks like AP top try scorer for a reason
Scott Williams is not our WC 13 but we have man of the Lions series coming back
Dragons players aren't that shit and no way Dragons should be bad next year


The only position we have no depth at all in now is outside centre. Thought Scott Williams was very poor this tour.

Every other position we have at least 2 viable options.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:15 pm 
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2 viable options, my f**king god what is more likely beard has gone from being a woeful lock who can't compete at pro 14 level to an international class player, or the oppo was dreadful?
As for patchell, did not pass for one single line break, did not make one single line break, for all this 'creativity' (whatever that means) we scored 4 tries..... and repeatedly made stupid handling issues, metronomic from the tee, biggar is better.

I hope the team that played against the argies plays every game of the autumn, and then I can add them to the pile of players theflier could see were shit, including but not limited to Sam Davies, Steff Evans and Owen Williams but had to sit through you lot telling me they would "add the attacking edge" or some crap.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Theflier wrote:
2 viable options, my f**king god what is more likely beard has gone from being a woeful lock who can't compete at pro 14 level to an international class player, or the oppo was dreadful?
As for patchell, did not pass for one single line break, did not make one single line break, for all this 'creativity' (whatever that means) we scored 4 tries..... and repeatedly made stupid handling issues, metronomic from the tee, biggar is better.

I hope the team that played against the argies plays every game of the autumn, and then I can add them to the pile of players theflier could see were shit, including but not limited to Sam Davies, Steff Evans and Owen Williams but had to sit through you lot telling me they would "add the attacking edge" or some crap.


Well aren't you a barrel of fun


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Theflier wrote:
2 viable options, my f**king god what is more likely beard has gone from being a woeful lock who can't compete at pro 14 level to an international class player, or the oppo was dreadful?
As for patchell, did not pass for one single line break, did not make one single line break, for all this 'creativity' (whatever that means) we scored 4 tries..... and repeatedly made stupid handling issues, metronomic from the tee, biggar is better.

I hope the team that played against the argies plays every game of the autumn, and then I can add them to the pile of players theflier could see were shit, including but not limited to Sam Davies, Steff Evans and Owen Williams but had to sit through you lot telling me they would "add the attacking edge" or some crap.

Well if you say every player is shit then you'll get some right.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Theflier wrote:
2 viable options, my f**king god what is more likely beard has gone from being a woeful lock who can't compete at pro 14 level to an international class player, or the oppo was dreadful?
As for patchell, did not pass for one single line break, did not make one single line break, for all this 'creativity' (whatever that means) we scored 4 tries..... and repeatedly made stupid handling issues, metronomic from the tee, biggar is better.

I hope the team that played against the argies plays every game of the autumn, and then I can add them to the pile of players theflier could see were shit, including but not limited to Sam Davies, Steff Evans and Owen Williams but had to sit through you lot telling me they would "add the attacking edge" or some crap.



If we beat NZ 100-0 would you be happy?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Is theflier a PT reincarnation?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:07 pm 
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c69 wrote:
Is theflier a PT reincarnation?


For all of PT's faults (he did know his rugby very well though), he was never as miserable as theflier.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:11 pm 
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PT is pretty upbeat about Welsh rugby over on gwlad these days


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:30 pm 
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So here's my take on our 1st team now

15 - Sanjay
14 - North
13 - Foxy
12 - the Poach
11 - Adams
10 - Patch
9 - Tomos

1 - Evans
2 - Owens
3 - Lee
4 - Hill
5 - AWJ
6 - Shingler
7 - Captain Sam
8 - not Toby

subs

N Smith
Elias
the fat Saes
Seb
Navidi
Cawdor
Anscombe


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Wyndham Upalot wrote:
c69 wrote:
Is theflier a PT reincarnation?


For all of PT's faults (he did know his rugby very well though), he was never as miserable as theflier.


I've never come across anybody as miserable as theflier in Wales? Genuinely, is he actually Welsh? Where does he come from?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
So here's my take on our 1st team now

15 - Sanjay
14 - North
13 - Foxy
12 - the Poach
11 - Adams
10 - Patch
9 - Tomos

1 - Evans
2 - Owens
3 - Lee
4 - Hill
5 - AWJ
6 - Shingler
7 - Captain Sam
8 - not Toby

subs

N Smith
Elias
the fat Saes
Seb
Navidi
Cawdor
Anscombe


Somewhat.
So you are putting Elias over Dee? Possibly. Think Dee is smaller but faster.
And Navidi over Moriarty? Despite mr chokyhold, he has been immense.
And Seb over Ball and Bradley? Seb was played out of position but I can't see how he jumps over established locks.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:29 pm 
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I for one would love to see a probables v possibles ahead of the World Cup again.

Revs
Owens
Lee
Alun Wyn
Hill
Warburton
Cubby
Faletau

Cawdor
Biggar
Evans
Parkes
Foxy
Adams
Halfers

Versus

Smith
Elias
Francis
Bradley
Beard
Navidi
Ellis
Moriarty

Tomos
Patchell
North
Watkin
Scott
Sanj
Amos

Reserves for both:

Wyn Jones
Dee
Dacey
Lewis
Shingler
Seb
Tipuric
Lydiate
Rawlings
Boyde
Aled
Webb
Anscombe
Jarrod
Henson
Cuthbert
Lane
Prydie
Nipper


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:25 pm 
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U20s finished well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:19 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
U20s finished well.


Didn't they though? They looked a shadow of the shadow of a team that played Japan. Back to the Oz performance


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
So here's my take on our 1st team now

15 - Sanjay
14 - North
13 - Foxy
12 - the Poach
11 - Adams
10 - Patch
9 - Tomos

1 - Evans
2 - Owens
3 - Lee
4 - Hill
5 - AWJ
6 - Shingler
7 - Captain Sam
8 - not Toby

subs

N Smith
Elias
the fat Saes
Seb
Navidi
Cawdor
Anscombe


I'd swap Francis for Dilon Lewis, Seb for Jake Ball (poor Seb hasn't had a chance to earn a place yet) and I think our best possible back row is Warburton/Moriarty/Faletau. Navidi on the bench is a good shout because he covers all 3 positions so well.

Also Amos on the bench instead of nobody as you've suggested ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Crash_12 wrote:
I for one would love to see a probables v possibles ahead of the World Cup again.

Nipper


It was looking good and then you embarrassed yourself.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:00 pm 
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:lol: rancid wasn’t it.

Missed Henson then?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Crash_12 wrote:
:lol: rancid wasn’t it.

Missed Henson then?


:lol: :lol:

And Cuthbert


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:19 pm 
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LandOTurk wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
:lol: rancid wasn’t it.

Missed Henson then?


:lol: :lol:

And Cuthbert

I was going to comment.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:38 pm 
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On a wider note possible v probables is a shite idea. Only good for potentially injuring someone.

With regards to the potential best team as picked above, and specifically the backrow, surely Moriarty has done enough to nail down the 6 position, or at the very least, be on the bench? Assuming that Gatland will stick with Not-Toby and THE BREADMAN, 6 is the only position open. Gatland loves himself an abrasive 6. I reckon the No.6 options are, in order:

Moriarty
Navidi
Shingler
Jenkins

With the other option being Warburton to 6, and one of our plethora of other of 7's starting.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Rounding off a grear weekend.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... mpionship/


Just praying now that England stick with Eddie (you know, the guy who got an extended contract) for RWC2019, and with Rob Andrew forever!!

Edit: I knew teh Jones boy would come good. A long-term Welsh sleeper, whose great grandfather moved to Oz, with the intent on developing a coach that seemed neutral, but would put pay to RWC2019 for the saes. Fcuking geniuses we are mun.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
On a wider note possible v probables is a shite idea. Only good for potentially injuring someone.

With regards to the potential best team as picked above, and specifically the backrow, surely Moriarty has done enough to nail down the 6 position, or at the very least, be on the bench? Assuming that Gatland will stick with Not-Toby and THE BREADMAN, 6 is the only position open. Gatland loves himself an abrasive 6. I reckon the No.6 options are, in order:

Moriarty
Navidi
Shingler
Jenkins

With the other option being Warburton to 6, and one of our plethora of other of 7's starting.


Yes, maybe. But I always think it is natural to remember more recent performances. I'd put Shingler and Navidi the other way around. We need to have options come teh tournament. We will have a top lineout with Shings.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:02 pm 
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LandOTurk wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
On a wider note possible v probables is a shite idea. Only good for potentially injuring someone.

With regards to the potential best team as picked above, and specifically the backrow, surely Moriarty has done enough to nail down the 6 position, or at the very least, be on the bench? Assuming that Gatland will stick with Not-Toby and THE BREADMAN, 6 is the only position open. Gatland loves himself an abrasive 6. I reckon the No.6 options are, in order:

Moriarty
Navidi
Shingler
Jenkins

With the other option being Warburton to 6, and one of our plethora of other of 7's starting.


Yes, maybe. But I always think it is natural to remember more recent performances. I'd put Shingler and Navidi the other way around. We need to have options come teh tournament. We will have a top lineout with Shings.


Having options is definitely the point, and for example, I wouldn't take Navidi and Moriarty, as they can both essentially do the same job of abrasive all rounder. At this stage, considering that we'll take 5 backrowers, with Warburton and Taulupe nailed on...I think the other 3 will be Tipuric, Moriarty and Shingler. Covers all bases (with someone like Seb Davies taken as 4th lock/reserve flanker).

However, as it stands, Tipuric could definitely be nudged if he doesn't produce. Warburton should really be in the same boat as Tipuric, but we all know that even if he plays like shit for the next 18 months, if he's fit, he's going...Tipuric won't have that luxury, and any one of Jenkins, Navidi, Cubby, or even someone like Ollie Griffiths could pinch his spot.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:28 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
On a wider note possible v probables is a shite idea. Only good for potentially injuring someone.

With regards to the potential best team as picked above, and specifically the backrow, surely Moriarty has done enough to nail down the 6 position, or at the very least, be on the bench? Assuming that Gatland will stick with Not-Toby and THE BREADMAN, 6 is the only position open. Gatland loves himself an abrasive 6. I reckon the No.6 options are, in order:

Moriarty
Navidi
Shingler
Jenkins

With the other option being Warburton to 6, and one of our plethora of other of 7's starting.


Yes, maybe. But I always think it is natural to remember more recent performances. I'd put Shingler and Navidi the other way around. We need to have options come teh tournament. We will have a top lineout with Shings.


Having options is definitely the point, and for example, I wouldn't take Navidi and Moriarty, as they can both essentially do the same job of abrasive all rounder. At this stage, considering that we'll take 5 backrowers, with Warburton and Taulupe nailed on...I think the other 3 will be Tipuric, Moriarty and Shingler. Covers all bases (with someone like Seb Davies taken as 4th lock/reserve flanker).

However, as it stands, Tipuric could definitely be nudged if he doesn't produce. Warburton should really be in the same boat as Tipuric, but we all know that even if he plays like shit for the next 18 months, if he's fit, he's going...Tipuric won't have that luxury, and any one of Jenkins, Navidi, Cubby, or even someone like Ollie Griffiths could pinch his spot.


I think its between Tips and Navidi myself with Warbs, Taulupe, Shings and Moriarty going. But yes I agree. However, there is so much depth there now, I think it is wasting time to try and get Ollie Griffiths bedded in. Extended training squad yes, but for the AIs, 6N and RWC give as much playing time to Navidi, Moriarty, Tips, Shings, Ellis and Cubby.

For example, in the AIs we play Scotland, Oz, Tonga and SA in that order. Play Taulupe and Warbs only against Oz and SA and decide on 3rd backrower and bench. The other two games jam it with Navidi, Moriarty, Tips, Shings, Ellis and Cubby.

For lock we know AWJ and Cory, but who are the other two from Ball, Brad, Seb, Beard, Charteris? I'd go Ball for sure and then who -Beard, Brad or Seb?? Dependent on how they play in upcoming games for club and country I expect. Competition for spots. Loving it! SH Gareth Davies told me at the Embassy he knows he has plenty of people chasing him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:40 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
Frodder wrote:
So here's my take on our 1st team now

15 - Sanjay
14 - North
13 - Foxy
12 - the Poach
11 - Adams
10 - Patch
9 - Tomos

1 - Evans
2 - Owens
3 - Lee
4 - Hill
5 - AWJ
6 - Shingler
7 - Captain Sam
8 - not Toby

subs

N Smith
Elias
the fat Saes
Seb
Navidi
Cawdor
Anscombe


Somewhat.
So you are putting Elias over Dee? Possibly. Think Dee is smaller but faster.
And Navidi over Moriarty? Despite mr chokyhold, he has been immense.
And Seb over Ball and Bradley? Seb was played out of position but I can't see how he jumps over established locks.


Do you know what? - I forgot about Moriarty :lol:
Ball slotting back in is far from certain
The Webb/Biggar half back pairing has never looked so uncertain


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:47 am 
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Quote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
On a wider note possible v probables is a shite idea.


:((


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:56 am 
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I know that Josh Adams try was the highlight reel moment of the match, but that Amos try with slick handling from everyone involved was a thing of beauty - love to see that.

Negative moment of the match (not that there were many) - Scott Williams getting done again on the outside - he just can't play 13 anymore - it's too easy to stress him for pace without having to do anything clever. He's still got a role to play at 12, but we need to be looking at other options at 13. That's about the only negative I can think of. Ok, so Moriarty choking out Sanchez - no doubt while whispering 'Oh, yeah' like Macho Man Randy Savage in his ear - was a negative, but more for the Dragons than Wales, as we'll suffer the ban...I do however look forward to us playing Argentina at some point in the near future and just letting Moriarty go full waterboy in their 10 channel. Sanchez better wear his brown pants.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:03 am 
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When is Ross's hearing


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:05 am 
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Crash_12 wrote:
Quote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
On a wider note possible v probables is a shite idea.


:((


In the amateur era, when tackling was optional, it had a place...but it has no place in a congested schedule of pro rugby.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:09 am 
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penguin wrote:
I know that Josh Adams try was the highlight reel moment of the match, but that Amos try with slick handling from everyone involved was a thing of beauty - love to see that.

Negative moment of the match (not that there were many) - Scott Williams getting done again on the outside - he just can't play 13 anymore - it's too easy to stress him for pace without having to do anything clever. He's still got a role to play at 12, but we need to be looking at other options at 13. That's about the only negative I can think of. Ok, so Moriarty choking out Sanchez - no doubt while whispering 'Oh, yeah' like Macho Man Randy Savage in his ear - was a negative, but more for the Dragons than Wales, as we'll suffer the ban...I do however look forward to us playing Argentina at some point in the near future and just letting Moriarty go full waterboy in their 10 channel. Sanchez better wear his brown pants.


Not aimed at you per se, but I do wonder whether boredies appreciate how difficult the 13 channels are to defend... particularly for a 12 playing there.

I used to get pelters for saying I couldn’t play there that well - you’re expected to defend equally as well on your inside and outside shoulder - be a presence in defence on the inside and outside channels so that’s the real rough stuff and pace.

It’s the most difficult position to play imho.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:13 am 
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Crash_12 wrote:
penguin wrote:
I know that Josh Adams try was the highlight reel moment of the match, but that Amos try with slick handling from everyone involved was a thing of beauty - love to see that.

Negative moment of the match (not that there were many) - Scott Williams getting done again on the outside - he just can't play 13 anymore - it's too easy to stress him for pace without having to do anything clever. He's still got a role to play at 12, but we need to be looking at other options at 13. That's about the only negative I can think of. Ok, so Moriarty choking out Sanchez - no doubt while whispering 'Oh, yeah' like Macho Man Randy Savage in his ear - was a negative, but more for the Dragons than Wales, as we'll suffer the ban...I do however look forward to us playing Argentina at some point in the near future and just letting Moriarty go full waterboy in their 10 channel. Sanchez better wear his brown pants.


Not aimed at you per se, but I do wonder whether boredies appreciate how difficult the 13 channels are to defend... particularly for a 12 playing there.

I used to get pelters for saying I couldn’t play there that well - you’re expected to defend equally as well on your inside and outside shoulder - be a presence in defence on the inside and outside channels so that’s the real rough stuff and pace.

It’s the most difficult position to play imho.


It's a bit like the saying 'life's hard, it's even harder if you're stupid'. Defending the 13 channel is hard, it's even harder if you're slow.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:05 am 
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I would also say he and the Scarlets played their best rugby with him at 12 and Foxy outside. Back when the much fawned over Parkes wasn’t even starting regularly and when he did it was out wide.

Both the Scarlets and Wales’ hands have been forced a little this season - we literally have nobody else of any real quality to play there at the moment, so I think people saying he should be nowhere near the first 15 or out of the squad entirely aren’t looking at the full picture.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:09 am 
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Crash_12 wrote:
I would also say he and the Scarlets played their best rugby with him at 12 and Foxy outside. Back when the much fawned over Parkes wasn’t even starting regularly and when he did it was out wide.

Both the Scarlets and Wales’ hands have been forced a little this season - we literally have nobody else of any real quality to play there at the moment, so I think people saying he should be nowhere near the first 15 or out of the squad entirely aren’t looking at the full picture.


Yeah, I'm certainly not suggesting we push him out entirely - just that we know he can do a job there, and each time we play him we learn very little that is new, so why not test other options. In particular we should look at other players in case Jonathan Davies and Scott are broken at the same time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:27 am 
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Outside of Foxy what other genuine options do we have at 13?

Scott plays there because he has to and he hasn't been the same since that nasty knee injury.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am 
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Frodder wrote:
Outside of Foxy what other genuine options do we have at 13?

Scott plays there because he has to and he hasn't been the same since that nasty knee injury.


Mostly blokes out of position or at least a position they play infrequently - Scott Williams, Parkes, North, Watkin, Owen Lane, Garyn Smith, Tyler Morgan. Beyond that we're into the realm of playing one of the opensides there because frankly they are too good to leave out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:46 am 
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Also brief comment on the under 20s - good win, but one of the most brain dead pieces of play I've seen in a while. We've got them down to 13 players (very briefly 12 maybe, can't remember if all 3 quite overlapped) and Cai Evans has the ball just inside the welsh half. In this situation do you a) pass the ball wide and stretch the defence, retaining possession until gaps appear or do you b) hoof it downfield where it is not contestable, allowing Italy to slow the game down?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
Frodder wrote:
So here's my take on our 1st team now

15 - Sanjay
14 - North
13 - Foxy
12 - the Poach
11 - Adams
10 - Patch
9 - Tomos

1 - Evans
2 - Owens
3 - Lee
4 - Hill
5 - AWJ
6 - Shingler
7 - Captain Sam
8 - not Toby

subs

N Smith
Elias
the fat Saes
Seb
Navidi
Cawdor
Anscombe


Somewhat.
So you are putting Elias over Dee? Possibly. Think Dee is smaller but faster.
And Navidi over Moriarty? Despite mr chokyhold, he has been immense.
And Seb over Ball and Bradley? Seb was played out of position but I can't see how he jumps over established locks.


Do you know what? - I forgot about Moriarty :lol:
Ball slotting back in is far from certain
The Webb/Biggar half back pairing has never looked so uncertain




I`m not talking as an Osprey supporter here, but I`m amazed how Tips can be written off or forgotten after three (pretty easy) games for the backrow. I think he is one of the most creative flankers in the world, but, I suppose out of sight is out of mind. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:02 pm 
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GWO2 wrote:
I`m not talking as an Osprey supporter here, but I`m amazed how Tips can be written off or forgotten after three (pretty easy) games for the backrow. I think he is one of the most creative flankers in the world, but, I suppose out of sight is out of mind. :?


I think it's because when we have lost recently it tends to be because we're beaten by more abrasive packs...a problem which you could lay at the door of the front 5, but people tend to want to compensate by playing a more attritional backrow. I don't necessarily think that's the right way to go, but in an argument of strong forward platform vs attacking intent and creativity, Tipuric is seen as the latter, at least in comparison to the competition.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:28 pm 
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On a purely Dragons note - after that tour I am looking forward to a Shaun Edwards' inspired defence with Moriarty, Hibbard, Dee, Hill, Griffiths, Wainwright, Dixon in it...reckon that will be worth a fair few points this season. Should be a big step up on Marnitz' efforts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Crash_12 wrote:
penguin wrote:
I know that Josh Adams try was the highlight reel moment of the match, but that Amos try with slick handling from everyone involved was a thing of beauty - love to see that.

Negative moment of the match (not that there were many) - Scott Williams getting done again on the outside - he just can't play 13 anymore - it's too easy to stress him for pace without having to do anything clever. He's still got a role to play at 12, but we need to be looking at other options at 13. That's about the only negative I can think of. Ok, so Moriarty choking out Sanchez - no doubt while whispering 'Oh, yeah' like Macho Man Randy Savage in his ear - was a negative, but more for the Dragons than Wales, as we'll suffer the ban...I do however look forward to us playing Argentina at some point in the near future and just letting Moriarty go full waterboy in their 10 channel. Sanchez better wear his brown pants.


Not aimed at you per se, but I do wonder whether boredies appreciate how difficult the 13 channels are to defend... particularly for a 12 playing there.

I used to get pelters for saying I couldn’t play there that well - you’re expected to defend equally as well on your inside and outside shoulder - be a presence in defence on the inside and outside channels so that’s the real rough stuff and pace.

It’s the most difficult position to play imho.


I played #13 and fully agree. After 2-3 years as SH and hooker, from comp onwards I was a #13. Unless you played it frequently, anyone who took my position when I was injured was awful. They were probably better rugby players in fairness, just not so good at OC. I was not the strongest or most skilful, but I could read the game well and had decent pace (11.9 for 100m) which got me out of sticky situations.


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