Planet Rugby Forum

I think Cackman has been the architect of his own downfall, the players will shape up once he's departed. Player protest, do enough to make a go of it, but not enough to save the coaches skin, Gareth Thomas/Matthew Rhys esque. Dressing room lost, players unhappy, so I hear.

Not Frankie wrote:I think Cackman has been the architect of his own downfall, the players will shape up once he's departed. Player protest, do enough to make a go of it, but not enough to save the coaches skin, Gareth Thomas/Matthew Rhys esque. Dressing room lost, players unhappy, so I hear.

Really? Considering about half of them only just turned up that didn't take long.

The newcomers will have had preseason getting snubbed and shouted at by him, doesn't take long.

Not Frankie wrote:The newcomers will have had preseason getting snubbed and shouted at by him, doesn't take long.

I wonder how patient Buttress and co will be if word is leaking out about unrest...and another performance like that occurs.

You'd think by December, if results haven't improved, then he's done. Nothing that hasn't been already stated, but he was emphatic about building the squad he wanted, all on the back of this season, which, is already looking a bit Ground Hog day. Say what you want about Kingsley, if anything, he was at least a decent bloke and liked by the players, something our little Irish friend is not.

Yeah, Kingsley was a good guy.

December is a long way away. Lose to one of Zebre and Southern Kings, and win the other with a bad performance (limping across the line), get a hiding from Leinster away...and I think the momentum would be building before we leave September. There is little margin for error for Jackman. Of course the other problem would be who the hell could you get now...

penguin wrote:

bessantj wrote:
Dragons should have won, they had enough chances to win it but had no attack. Wainwright had a good game, which was nice to see but if they don't get better I fear theflier my laugh himself to death.

I've been away so didn't see the whole thing, but that team sheet worried me from the off. Griffiths at 8, Wainwright at 7? Just smacks of muddled thinking - why not play Wainwright as a 6, which he is, Griffiths as a 7, which he is, and stick Evans in at 8, until next week when Moriarty can play there?

I watched the pre-season game against Gloucester and the one thing that keeps worrying me (and seems to have been an issue against Benneton too) is the defence. The likes of Hill, Wainwright, Griffiths, Dixon, Hibbard should give you the bodies to put in place a solid defensive system that is hard to break down, but we still seem to be porous. I've yet to see anything to suggest Marnitz is putting in place a system that works. The generous may say that there were individual errors, but it seems to me that this season and last the players are put in positions where individual errors are more likely. The should have bust a gut to get Edwards in, even for a short time.

I think Martyn Williams made the same point about Griffiths/Wainwright during the game. And it does make you wonder.

I was more worried about the attack rather than the defence (though it wasn't exactly a bright point.). Too many handling errors giving the ball back to the Italians as well.

penguin wrote:Yeah, Kingsley was a good guy.

December is a long way away. Lose to one of Zebre and Southern Kings, and win the other with a bad performance (limping across the line), get a hiding from Leinster away...and I think the momentum would be building before we leave September. There is little margin for error for Jackman. Of course the other problem would be who the hell could you get now...

Fark, I'd have Ruddock back at this rate, however unlikely. They (board and WRU) would have to sp*nk a load of cash on someone, or draft in Edwards and some of the WRU setup till someone could be found? I really don't know? Warlow, Nigel Davies?? I'm scared, hold me

bessantj wrote:

penguin wrote:

bessantj wrote:
Dragons should have won, they had enough chances to win it but had no attack. Wainwright had a good game, which was nice to see but if they don't get better I fear theflier my laugh himself to death.

I've been away so didn't see the whole thing, but that team sheet worried me from the off. Griffiths at 8, Wainwright at 7? Just smacks of muddled thinking - why not play Wainwright as a 6, which he is, Griffiths as a 7, which he is, and stick Evans in at 8, until next week when Moriarty can play there?

I watched the pre-season game against Gloucester and the one thing that keeps worrying me (and seems to have been an issue against Benneton too) is the defence. The likes of Hill, Wainwright, Griffiths, Dixon, Hibbard should give you the bodies to put in place a solid defensive system that is hard to break down, but we still seem to be porous. I've yet to see anything to suggest Marnitz is putting in place a system that works. The generous may say that there were individual errors, but it seems to me that this season and last the players are put in positions where individual errors are more likely. The should have bust a gut to get Edwards in, even for a short time.

I think Martyn Williams made the same point about Griffiths/Wainwright during the game. And it does make you wonder.

I was more worried about the attack rather than the defence (though it wasn't exactly a bright point.). Too many handling errors giving the ball back to the Italians as well.

I think that good coaches are primarily good selectors - they see talent, and appreciate it, and that includes putting it in the position where they can do the most good. It's not a huge deal in some ways, but I just thought it was odd.

Attack will look better if they actually catch the ball - tends to make a difference

Not Frankie wrote:

penguin wrote:Yeah, Kingsley was a good guy.

December is a long way away. Lose to one of Zebre and Southern Kings, and win the other with a bad performance (limping across the line), get a hiding from Leinster away...and I think the momentum would be building before we leave September. There is little margin for error for Jackman. Of course the other problem would be who the hell could you get now...

Fark, I'd have Ruddock back at this rate, however unlikely. They (board and WRU) would have to sp*nk a load of cash on someone, or draft in Edwards and some of the WRU setup till someone could be found? I really don't know? Warlow, Nigel Davies?? I'm scared, hold me

We've just put up with the worst season imaginable and still turned up with some optimism - with that kind of unwillingness to look facts in the face we'll be just fine.

Sh*t, Luke Price has broken a leg so he`ll be out for a few months at best, leaving us with Sam Davies and I suppose Hooky as back up. One more injury and already you could say "It`s going to be a long season".

penguin wrote:We've just put up with the worst season imaginable and still turned up with some optimism - with that kind of unwillingness to look facts in the face we'll be just fine.

Your average Dragons fan.

c69 wrote:You could feasibly have a game where Hook and Henson are the starting 10s in a fixture


Dear God

GWO2 wrote:Sh*t, Luke Price has broken a leg so he`ll be out for a few months at best, leaving us with Sam Davies and I suppose Hooky as back up. One more injury and already you could say "It`s going to be a long season".

We are mere days away from a Gareth Thomas piece in the Western Fail talking up the skills of 'Ooky.

Wales Fixture list from now until end of group stages in RWC2019.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/17693512

That's 17 games plus any in the knockout stages - up to 3.

So in a 12 month span, there will be 20 games possibly. Unlikely, but imagine if you played all of those games. A huge boost to your cap count. Back in the day, that would be somebodys total Wales career.

It's blocked into 4 sets of games:

AIs - 4
6Ns - 5
Pre RWC - 4
RWC - 4 + knockout

North is on 76 caps. He could easily do 3 + 5 + 3 + 4 +(all 3 knockouts) = 15/18 = 91/94 caps.

Only ones who could get into the 90s is Faletau and Halfpenny I think.

Biggar and JD in 60s, few others like Tips, Scott in the 50s.

So this is it, this will be the year.

300 pages.

Never thought it would happen.

Still a long way to go, mind.

fudge off with that optimism.

Anyone watch the pro 14 roundup? I've assumed its gonna be a leinster wankfest so given it a miss

Short Man Syndrome wrote:So this is it, this will be the year.

300 pages.

Never thought it would happen.

Still a long way to go, mind.

300 pages?! 300 pages?!

Listen mate the only way we'll manage that if we go into some Irish thread style banter. We need a good ol' fashioned shit fight to get us to that standard.

LandOTurk wrote:Wales Fixture list from now until end of group stages in RWC2019.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/17693512

That's 17 games plus any in the knockout stages - up to 3.

So in a 12 month span, there will be 20 games possibly. Unlikely, but imagine if you played all of those games. A huge boost to your cap count. Back in the day, that would be somebodys total Wales career.

It's blocked into 4 sets of games:

AIs - 4
6Ns - 5
Pre RWC - 4
RWC - 4 + knockout

North is on 76 caps. He could easily do 3 + 5 + 3 + 4 +(all 3 knockouts) = 15/18 = 91/94 caps.

Only ones who could get into the 90s is Faletau and Halfpenny I think.

Biggar and JD in 60s, few others like Tips, Scott in the 50s.

Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

eldanielfire wrote: Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

Indeed. 53 caps over 11 seasons.

Could be a competition. Who is the worst Wales player with more caps than Gareth? Answers on a postcard.

Edit: Here is the list.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/stats/re ... p_club.php

Harsh - but Duncan Jones, Ian Gough???

Also, AWJ could beat Gethin when he retires (I expect) from international rugby next year.

LandOTurk wrote:

eldanielfire wrote: Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

Indeed. 53 caps over 11 seasons.

Could be a competition. Who is the worst Wales player with more caps than Gareth? Answers on a postcard.

Edit: Here is the list.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/stats/re ... p_club.php

Harsh - but Duncan Jones, Ian Gough???

Also, AWJ could beat Gethin when he retires (I expect) from international rugby next year.

Oh wait, Jonathan Thomas.

LandOTurk wrote:

eldanielfire wrote: Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

Indeed. 53 caps over 11 seasons.

Could be a competition. Who is the worst Wales player with more caps than Gareth? Answers on a postcard.

Edit: Here is the list.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/stats/re ... p_club.php

Harsh - but Duncan Jones, Ian Gough???

Also, AWJ could beat Gethin when he retires (I expect) from international rugby next year.

Jonathon Thomas? More caps than either of those two. Not too many others of that quality in that list.

penguin wrote:

LandOTurk wrote:

eldanielfire wrote: Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

Indeed. 53 caps over 11 seasons.

Could be a competition. Who is the worst Wales player with more caps than Gareth? Answers on a postcard.

Edit: Here is the list.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/stats/re ... p_club.php

Harsh - but Duncan Jones, Ian Gough???

Also, AWJ could beat Gethin when he retires (I expect) from international rugby next year.

Jonathon Thomas? More caps than either of those two. Not too many others of that quality in that list.

If you’re talking unwarranted caps, then Jon Thomas wins every time.

Frodder wrote:

Short Man Syndrome wrote:So this is it, this will be the year.

300 pages.

Never thought it would happen.

Still a long way to go, mind.

300 pages?! 300 pages?!

Listen mate the only way we'll manage that if we go into some Irish thread style banter. We need a good ol' fashioned shit fight to get us to that standard.

I thought Jon Thomas provided a lot of much-needed ballast to the pack, he may not have had the hands of Michael Owen or the mobility of a Gavin Thomas but I can only guess wildly at how much he brought to the tight exchanges.

Slightly better looking team for the Dragons this week

Dragons: J Williams; Howells, Morgan, Dixon, Amos; J Lewis, R Williams; Harris, Dee, Brown, Screech, Hill (capt), Wainwright, Griffiths, Moriarty.

Replacements: Hibbard, Bevington, Fairbrother, Nansen, Taylor, Knoyle, Robson, Warren

Starting with Dee, Moriarty to 8 - which rebalances the backrow so that Wainwright and Griffiths are in their best positions too. Henson injured so Lewis starts, Robson on the bench. Hibbard can give impact off bench along with Nansen. Fingers crossed that they catch the f*cking ball this week.

penguin wrote:Slightly better looking team for the Dragons this week

Dragons: J Williams; Howells, Morgan, Dixon, Amos; J Lewis, R Williams; Harris, Dee, Brown, Screech, Hill (capt), Wainwright, Griffiths, Moriarty.

Replacements: Hibbard, Bevington, Fairbrother, Nansen, Taylor, Knoyle, Robson, Warren

Starting with Dee, Moriarty to 8 - which rebalances the backrow so that Wainwright and Griffiths are in their best positions too. Henson injured so Lewis starts, Robson on the bench. Hibbard can give impact off bench along with Nansen. Fingers crossed that they catch the f*cking ball this week.

I thought they were better but fúcking hell 17-0 up at one point and just let the Kings back into it, stupid shit.

Great result for the Scarlets, kept at it and managed a good win.
Ospreys though, magnificent game, Cheetahs never got a sniff in Ospreys dominant throughout.
Bit disappointed in the Blues, thought they should have won that match, had the chances but never took them and couldn't handle the Benetton pack at the end.

Yes, we looked like the better team, but coached worse.
Sadly my predictions(as per) are coming true. Mulvihill is not a pro coach, if he were he'd have made it someone by his age.
His selections have been criminal and its tight games that lost it, glad the all hail the new hero brigade is over now and we can go back to having our great 10, at 10.
Benetton have done exactly what I said the dragons should've done months ago, hire a middle of the line kiwi coach, let him bring in a NWQ quota of his choice and you have a decent side

Dragons looked shit.
Scarlets looked better than I expected, ref'd to victory though.
Ospreys desperately unlucky with injuries so far

Enjoyed the Scarlets game, thought Ospreys dealt with a disinterested Cheets team pretty handily but my match of the weekend was Ebbw Vale vs Aberavon - quality comeback from Refry's boys.

Short Man Syndrome wrote:Enjoyed the Scarlets game, thought Ospreys dealt with a disinterested Cheets team pretty handily but my match of the weekend was Ebbw Vale vs Aberavon - quality comeback from Refry's boys.

I didn't realise it was on BBC 2 going to have to keep my eye out for future games.

LandOTurk wrote:

eldanielfire wrote: Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

Indeed. 53 caps over 11 seasons.

Could be a competition. Who is the worst Wales player with more caps than Gareth? Answers on a postcard.

Edit: Here is the list.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/stats/re ... p_club.php

Harsh - but Duncan Jones, Ian Gough???

Also, AWJ could beat Gethin when he retires (I expect) from international rugby next year.

James Hook, 81 caps And there are still people who believe he was never given a fair chance.

Looking down the list I can't see anybody beating Gethin/AWJ's caps for a very, very long time. Even North with his 76 caps at 26 would have to keep playing until 32/33 to reach that many. Doesn't seem that likely.

New guy wrote:

LandOTurk wrote:

eldanielfire wrote: Even a legend like Gareth Edwards only hit 50 something playing a good decade.

Indeed. 53 caps over 11 seasons.

Could be a competition. Who is the worst Wales player with more caps than Gareth? Answers on a postcard.

Edit: Here is the list.
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/stats/re ... p_club.php

Harsh - but Duncan Jones, Ian Gough???

Also, AWJ could beat Gethin when he retires (I expect) from international rugby next year.

James Hook, 81 caps And there are still people who believe he was never given a fair chance.

Looking down the list I can't see anybody beating Gethin/AWJ's caps for a very, very long time. Even North with his 76 caps at 26 would have to keep playing until 32/33 to reach that many. Doesn't seem that likely.

Barring injury, North wll hit 90+ in 2019, 100 in 2020, 110 around 2021, when he will be 29.

Theflier wrote:Yes, we looked like the better team, but coached worse.
Sadly my predictions(as per) are coming true. Mulvihill is not a pro coach, if he were he'd have made it someone by his age.
His selections have been criminal and its tight games that lost it, glad the all hail the new hero brigade is over now and we can go back to having our great 10, at 10.
Benetton have done exactly what I said the dragons should've done months ago, hire a middle of the line kiwi coach, let him bring in a NWQ quota of his choice and you have a decent side

Dragons looked shit.
Scarlets looked better than I expected, ref'd to victory though.
Ospreys desperately unlucky with injuries so far

So, I watched all the games as well. Lets start at the top, uh, I mean bottom with the Dragons. The worst thing I can say about them at the moment, is that they seem to somehow always be working with a scramble defence, even when the opposition are seemingly going nowhere. There never seems to be a solidity and organisation about their defensive structure. That, in my opinion, is borderline criminal as the players at the Dragons dispoasl may not be world beaters, but they are more than good enough to organise a decent defence.

Cardiff were, once again, unlucky. They have an attacking verve that will see them win more than they lose, but they are a bit porous at the moment.

The Ospreys looked good, and whisper it, so did Sam Davies. He was, however, given an armchair ride.

The Scarlets performance I liked the most. As I noted on the game thread, they have at least recognised that they can't beat this current Leinster team by trying to outrun them, so they went the direct rout. Yes, it was tight, and yes, they could have easily lost, but I don't imagine anyone who beats Leinster this year (and there won't be many), will do it at a canter. It'll be a grind all the way,

Jeff the Bear wrote: So, I watched all the games as well. Lets start at the top, uh, I mean bottom with the Dragons. The worst thing I can say about them at the moment, is that they seem to somehow always be working with a scramble defence, even when the opposition are seemingly going nowhere. There never seems to be a solidity and organisation about their defensive structure. That, in my opinion, is borderline criminal as the players at the Dragons dispoasl may not be world beaters, but they are more than good enough to organise a decent defence.

Cardiff were, once again, unlucky. They have an attacking verve that will see them win more than they lose, but they are a bit porous at the moment.

The Ospreys looked good, and whisper it, so did Sam Davies. He was, however, given an armchair ride.

The Scarlets performance I liked the most. As I noted on the game thread, they have at least recognised that they can't beat this current Leinster team by trying to outrun them, so they went the direct rout. Yes, it was tight, and yes, they could have easily lost, but I don't imagine anyone who beats Leinster this year (and there won't be many), will do it at a canter. It'll be a grind all the way,

That has been my chief concern from the warm up matches and the 1st couple of league games. Some of the Kings attacking play was very slick - lovely passing and a lot of pace, they'll score tries against a few teams this season, but it wasn't just those occasions when they put it all together. It's troubling - Marnitz has yet to show he has a clear message. Last year was the same but at least then there was the excuse of young players and a revolving door of selection that made cohesion more difficult. That time has now passed and the problems persist. I'm concerned about Leinster this week. Not that we'll lose, I'm taking that as read, but the scoreline.

As a Blues supporter can I please confirm I'm officially gutted

penguin wrote:

Jeff the Bear wrote: So, I watched all the games as well. Lets start at the top, uh, I mean bottom with the Dragons. The worst thing I can say about them at the moment, is that they seem to somehow always be working with a scramble defence, even when the opposition are seemingly going nowhere. There never seems to be a solidity and organisation about their defensive structure. That, in my opinion, is borderline criminal as the players at the Dragons dispoasl may not be world beaters, but they are more than good enough to organise a decent defence.

Cardiff were, once again, unlucky. They have an attacking verve that will see them win more than they lose, but they are a bit porous at the moment.

The Ospreys looked good, and whisper it, so did Sam Davies. He was, however, given an armchair ride.

The Scarlets performance I liked the most. As I noted on the game thread, they have at least recognised that they can't beat this current Leinster team by trying to outrun them, so they went the direct rout. Yes, it was tight, and yes, they could have easily lost, but I don't imagine anyone who beats Leinster this year (and there won't be many), will do it at a canter. It'll be a grind all the way,

That has been my chief concern from the warm up matches and the 1st couple of league games. Some of the Kings attacking play was very slick - lovely passing and a lot of pace, they'll score tries against a few teams this season, but it wasn't just those occasions when they put it all together. It's troubling - Marnitz has yet to show he has a clear message. Last year was the same but at least then there was the excuse of young players and a revolving door of selection that made cohesion more difficult. That time has now passed and the problems persist. I'm concerned about Leinster this week. Not that we'll lose, I'm taking that as read, but the scoreline.

We'll be alright, I'm not sure their scoreboard can go into triple digits (might check that out).

Also I'm not convinced the Blues were unlucky, they had chances they just failed to put away and had no way of dealing with the Benetton forwards at the end.

EDIT: It may go up to three digits but it's hard to read which is even better.

Craig Mitchell is till in the building and playing the Falcons. Another case of wasted talent and an older version of Nicky Thomas


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45487324

Frodder wrote:Craig Mitchell is till in the building and playing the Falcons. Another case of wasted talent and an older version of Nicky Thomas


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45487324

I think Craig suffered largely from a heavy injury toll, rather than a lack of effort and commitment

With news of another Tyler Morgan injury (3 weeks) and Gavin needing to see a knee specialist, it's nice ot have some good news;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45497004

Kirchner off on loan. He hasn't figured in a match day squad, which is a testament to the fact that we're actually not badly off for back 3 players, and that Kirchner is now bad enough for Jackman to notice, relegate him to the A team, then let him out on loan. How long is his contract - anyone know?

Yeah I just saw the story about Kirchner and look forward to him scoring hat fulls of tries at Bristol

bessantj wrote:Yeah I just saw the story about Kirchner and look forward to him scoring hat fulls of tries at Bristol

Good luck to him. If he does well, that's great (partly because they might make it permanent). I wish him no ill at all. I think he tries hard, but he's been pants for us, and I'd sooner free up some cash on the wage bill so we can sign a better defence coach.