Planet Rugby Forum

It's sad but was predicted. Thankfully the French exodus has stopped but we seem to be leaking more players again.

Frodder wrote:It's sad but was predicted. Thankfully the French exodus has stopped but we seem to be leaking more players again.

Money talks. Rumours that Webb was after a pay day in England/France as well - but he'll have to tread a bit more carefully now - only 4 wildcards from outside Wales allowed from next year (presumably Faletau, Sanjay, North, and now Biggar) - so anyone else looking to go outside Wales will have to be prepared to scrap for their Wales spot. It might be why Biggar has announced this deal a year early...

P in VG wrote:

Frodder wrote:It's sad but was predicted. Thankfully the French exodus has stopped but we seem to be leaking more players again.

Money talks. Rumours that Webb was after a pay day in England/France as well - but he'll have to tread a bit more carefully now - only 4 wildcards from outside Wales allowed from next year (presumably Faletau, Sanjay, North, and now Biggar) - so anyone else looking to go outside Wales will have to be prepared to scrap for their Wales spot. It might be why Biggar has announced this deal a year early...

There`s a wild rumour doing the rounds that Rhys Webb could be going with him.

What's the feeling for our teams this weekend? As a Blues fan it's <gulp> time

I'd expect the Blues to look better but still lose - Leinster away was a great game last year, but can't see them nicking it.

Edinburgh vs Dragons - you have to expect Edinburgh at home with a big pack to be too much for the Dragons, but I think there are glimmers of hope for the Dragons. Also every game they have played under Jackman has been against a top side (Montpellier, Northampton back to back, Exeter, Glasgow, Leinster). This is the first time they will come up against a side in the same half of a league table as them. Probably a loss, but who knows.

Glasgow vs Ospreys - Glasgow at home should be too much for the Ospreys on current form. They will need to be substantially better to be in with a sniff up there.

Zebre vs Scarlets - has to be Scarlets, and you'd hope they can get a bonus. Zebre were trickier for Ospreys than expected, but Scarlets are playing in a different league to almost anyone else right now.

So that's one expected win and 3 away losses...just have to hope that there is a surprise somewhere and that it is not out in Italy!

penguin wrote:I'd expect the Blues to look better but still lose - Leinster away was a great game last year, but can't see them nicking it.

Edinburgh vs Dragons - you have to expect Edinburgh at home with a big pack to be too much for the Dragons, but I think there are glimmers of hope for the Dragons. Also every game they have played under Jackman has been against a top side (Montpellier, Northampton back to back, Exeter, Glasgow, Leinster). This is the first time they will come up against a side in the same half of a league table as them. Probably a loss, but who knows.

Glasgow vs Ospreys - Glasgow at home should be too much for the Ospreys on current form. They will need to be substantially better to be in with a sniff up there.

Zebre vs Scarlets - has to be Scarlets, and you'd hope they can get a bonus. Zebre were trickier for Ospreys than expected, but Scarlets are playing in a different league to almost anyone else right now.

So that's one expected win and 3 away losses...just have to hope that there is a surprise somewhere and that it is not out in Italy!

Spot on sir. All in all not the best start for the regions (Scarlets aside)

Frodder wrote:
Spot on sir. All in all not the best start for the regions (Scarlets aside)

Sorry to be proven right. Dragons I thought were unlucky in some ways - the disallowed try was at a crucial point when they were actually playing some decent rugby. The final scoreline made it look like they were hopeless, but actually they worked hard. Jackman was right sadly - the bench brought little. Still not enough yards being made by the pack to tie in the defence - desperately need to find a way to bring more dynamism to the forwards.

Scarlets look great. Such fun to watch. No James or Jonathan Davies, no Jake Ball, No Ken Owens...still looking class.

Blues and Ospreys were always up against it - Ospreys should have done more with the possession they had. Looked lacking in confidence. Sam Davies overplayed things - tried to do too much, when he should have just pinned Glasgow back more often and let them try and make something happen, as Glasgow did to them.

Disappointing but early days, and Ospreys pack looked strong, Blues looked better, and players to come back...so not all doom and gloom.

I think it's only a matter of time before the Ospreys come good. If Bradley Davies grounds the ball and if Sam puts a bit more loop on the pass then the Os win the game for me.

Clive Simms wrote:I think it's only a matter of time before the Ospreys come good. If Bradley Davies grounds the ball and if Sam puts a bit more loop on the pass then the Os win the game for me.

Not sure about the sprays this year. I think they were stupid giving up Matevasi and Ardron. Their talent pool looks a lot shallower this season without them and Underhill. The guys they've signed do nothing for me at all.

The future can't be too grim with the likes of Watkin and Keiron Williams around though, but not sure were going to see them soon. Is Watkin injured again?

I think he played in pre-season. Hadn't heard about another injury - probably just easing him back.

The quality of player is not the biggest issue right now - I think it's all about confidence. They were working hard at the weekend but it was a grinding sort of carrying and retaining possession effort, rather than dynamic and lively. When they played at their best last season the lines of running were that bit smarter, their clearout was better (Glasgow were always just making it awkward I felt - to their credit) and what then followed was Sam Davies having options to pick holes in the defence. Everything was just too static to stretch Glasgow...so Davies forced passes, and it worked on occasion, Evans' try was lovely, but then when it went wrong it went wrong badly.

Confidence seems to be lacking, but that could turn around with one decent performance. AWJ and Webb will give them a big boost when they're back.

penguin wrote:I think he played in pre-season. Hadn't heard about another injury - probably just easing him back.

The quality of player is not the biggest issue right now - I think it's all about confidence. They were working hard at the weekend but it was a grinding sort of carrying and retaining possession effort, rather than dynamic and lively. When they played at their best last season the lines of running were that bit smarter, their clearout was better (Glasgow were always just making it awkward I felt - to their credit) and what then followed was Sam Davies having options to pick holes in the defence. Everything was just too static to stretch Glasgow...so Davies forced passes, and it worked on occasion, Evans' try was lovely, but then when it went wrong it went wrong badly.

Confidence seems to be lacking, but that could turn around with one decent performance. AWJ and Webb will give them a big boost when they're back.

Baker and now Cracknell injured already too. Could be a tough start to the season.
Sam Davies just isn't fulfilling the potential. Like you said he does some nice stuff, but can be a liability too, not least in defence where he is an absolute soft shit.

So anyway.... Hadleigh Parkers qualifies for Wales in December apparently. Anyone think he'll get a cap?

Sam Davies isn't fulfilling his potential? He had an amazing season last year, had the Ospreys firing on all cylinders until that woeful run at the end of the season, when (and I don't think it is purely coincidental) Biggar came back in and they started pissing around with the backline.

He didn't play well at the weekend, but he's class, and between him and Patchell we have two tens just right for the more open game we are hoping for for Wales.

As for Hadleigh Parkes - good player, and seems a decent guy, but I don't particularly want him to be capped. Centres are weak for depth so he has a shot, but I don't want him suddenly springing ahead of Scott Williams, who has had to wait an age for Roberts to finally be ousted. I want him to have a decent shot before we start looking for another option.

If Scott or J. Davies goes down with injury - I'd much rather Hadleigh Parkes comes in than Jamie Roberts or T. Morgan. He's a good solid pro & very rarely has a bad game

My concern is not from a quality perspective - he'd be a useful addition in that regard. If there are injuries, then fair enough - I'm talking about him leapfrogging guys like Scott Williams, who I think deserve more time to see if they can provide some midfield spark in the (hopefully) post jaw era.

While I like Parkes, I think he is too slow for international rugby.

What is the pecking order right now?
J Davies
S Williams
J Roberts
A Beck
O Watkin
C Allen
T Morgan
J Dixon
G Henson

H Parkes is not qualified yet

Other possibles, even if some are outside bets - Jack Roberts, Sam Beard (I'm pretty sure is welsh qualified), Garyn Smith, Ben John maybe when he comes back from suspension - can play 13, Hook...and then there are the possible 10s shifted across. Shingler, Patchell, Owen Williams.

cubby boi wrote:

Clive Simms wrote:I think it's only a matter of time before the Ospreys come good. If Bradley Davies grounds the ball and if Sam puts a bit more loop on the pass then the Os win the game for me.

Not sure about the sprays this year. I think they were stupid giving up Matevasi and Ardron. Their talent pool looks a lot shallower this season without them and Underhill. The guys they've signed do nothing for me at all.

The future can't be too grim with the likes of Watkin and Keiron Williams around though, but not sure were going to see them soon. Is Watkin injured again?

I don`t think they had a choice with either of them. They both decided to chase the buck, can`t blame them, it`s a short career. Worse still is that we will be losing Biggar at the end of this season and also Webb by the look of it.


First club to show interest in Rhys Webb is revealed after scrum-half's CV was circulated in England and France

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... s-13598984

penguin wrote:Sam Davies isn't fulfilling his potential? He had an amazing season last year, had the Ospreys firing on all cylinders until that woeful run at the end of the season, when (and I don't think it is purely coincidental) Biggar came back in and they started pissing around with the backline.

He didn't play well at the weekend, but he's class, and between him and Patchell we have two tens just right for the more open game we are hoping for for Wales.
.

The problem with Davies (and Patchell tbf), like many a ball playing 10, is that he has a bit of the Rhys Preistland's about him...that is, when it's not going 100% right, they'll start to force the issue.

With regards to the Ospreys recruitment, I'd tend to agree that Matavesi is the biggest loss (although by the end of last season, he was already gone, that fat bastard as he is). We don't have anyone now who can make a target in midfield, and certainly no one who can make a target, and also do a bit of ball playing.

I not the Western Fail have an article on Why the Scarlets are so good. Lots of it is wishy washy nonsense, with only a small part devoted to the real reason...they have a decent front 5 with decent back ups. That's why the Ospreys were so good for so long, and why they are now struggling. And it's why the Blues and the Dragons also fail. A constant physicality deficit that means the team as a whole have to expend more energy than their opposition for the same gains.

It is therefore unsurprising that those teams (like the Scarlets of old) are now getting shafted in the last quarter with almost metronomic regularity.

penguin wrote:Sam Davies isn't fulfilling his potential? He had an amazing season last year, had the Ospreys firing on all cylinders until that woeful run at the end of the season, when (and I don't think it is purely coincidental) Biggar came back in and they started pissing around with the backline.

He didn't play well at the weekend, but he's class, and between him and Patchell we have two tens just right for the more open game we are hoping for for Wales.

As for Hadleigh Parkes - good player, and seems a decent guy, but I don't particularly want him to be capped. Centres are weak for depth so he has a shot, but I don't want him suddenly springing ahead of Scott Williams, who has had to wait an age for Roberts to finally be ousted. I want him to have a decent shot before we start looking for another option.

Davies looked good at the start of the season against a bunch of shit teams.

He's a talented but very flawed player who is nowhere near as good as Biggar and probably never will be.

I have no reason to like Sam Davies as he is a player of the enemy but I think he is great and with proper coaching can be world class. You can see that he has all the tools to break down any defence but at the minute is over complicating things. If he had 2 years under Stephen Jones' tutelage he could be scary good

LandOTurk wrote:While I like Parkes, I think he is too slow for international rugby.

What is the pecking order right now?
J Davies
S Williams
J Roberts
A Beck
O Watkin
C Allen
T Morgan
J Dixon
G Henson

H Parkes is not qualified yet

Ok I'm going to say it. That list is pretty ordinary to put it mildly. Jaw is gone and Beck is crocked (would have loved to seen him have a run). Henson - please, come on. Allen has not come through and Watkin is a kid recovering from a serious injury.

Parkes will be in the 6N for sure

Clive Simms wrote:I have no reason to like Sam Davies as he is a player of the enemy but I think he is great and with proper coaching can be world class. You can see that he has all the tools to break down any defence but at the minute is over complicating things. If he had 2 years under Stephen Jones' tutelage he could be scary good

This. If we have Patchell and Davies running the show at 10 for the next few years we'll be in good shape.

Totally agree with Jeff, Davies has that flaky Priestland air about him. He's an appalling defender to boot

La heinous wrote:Totally agree with Jeff, Davies has that flaky Priestland air about him. He's an appalling defender to boot

He suffers by comparison in that regard to Biggar, but then so do most 10s. His pluses far outweigh his minuses for me. Also think he has an inner steel that Priestland never had. If you want a 10 to play flat then he's going to make mistakes, especially when the team isn't playing well as a unit. Biggar makes fewer errors because he doesn't challenge the line consistently, and plays low risk rugby. He's bloody good at it, and has improved his attacking game, but doesn't have the gainline breaking ability or killer passing of a Patchell or Davies. You want wales to play more open rugby, there will be a price to pay somewhere...if you replace Biggar with Davies or Patchell then you will lose game management and defence, but gain in creativity. It's a move I want to see us make.

Simon Thomas' predicted Wales XV for Australia: L Halfpenny; L Williams, J Davies, S Williams, G North; D Biggar, R Webb; R Evans, K Owens, S Lee; L Charteris, AW Jones; D Lydiate, J Tipuric, T Faletau

Most of that looks pretty obvious. I'd love to see Steff Evans get a chance ahead of 1/2p, with Liam Williams at FB, and test out one of the younger 10s, but the one thing I can't believe is Lydiate. Surely, even if he gets a few games under his belt, he's not going to waltz back into the test side? I know our stock of out and out 6s is low, and with Warburton and Moriarty injured there will have to be some reshuffling but surely Shingler, Cracknell or an out of position 7 like Young or Griffiths would be a better option at the moment?

penguin wrote:

Simon Thomas' predicted Wales XV for Australia: L Halfpenny; L Williams, J Davies, S Williams, G North; D Biggar, R Webb; R Evans, K Owens, S Lee; L Charteris, AW Jones; D Lydiate, J Tipuric, T Faletau

Most of that looks pretty obvious. I'd love to see Steff Evans get a chance ahead of 1/2p, with Liam Williams at FB, and test out one of the younger 10s, but the one thing I can't believe is Lydiate. Surely, even if he gets a few games under his belt, he's not going to waltz back into the test side? I know our stock of out and out 6s is low, and with Warburton and Moriarty injured there will have to be some reshuffling but surely Shingler, Cracknell or an out of position 7 like Young or Griffiths would be a better option at the moment?

Isn't that the side that took the field against Australia in the last AI and got stuffed?

Last AI was SA...which we won with

Wales Team Line-up
Forwards
1 Gethin Jenkins (CAPTAIN)
2 Ken Owens
3 Tomas Francis
4 Luke Charteris
5 Alun Wyn Jones
6 Dan Lydiate
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Ross Moriarty
Backs
9 Gareth Davies
10 Dan Biggar
11 Liam Williams
12 Scott Williams
13 Jonathan Davies
14 George North
15 Leigh Halfpenny
Replacements
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Nicky Smith
18 Samson Lee
19 Cory Hill
20 Taulupe Faletau
21 Lloyd Williams
22 Sam Davies
23 Jamie Roberts

penguin wrote:Last AI was SA...which we won with

Wales Team Line-up
Forwards
1 Gethin Jenkins (CAPTAIN)
2 Ken Owens
3 Tomas Francis
4 Luke Charteris
5 Alun Wyn Jones
6 Dan Lydiate
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Ross Moriarty
Backs
9 Gareth Davies
10 Dan Biggar
11 Liam Williams
12 Scott Williams
13 Jonathan Davies
14 George North
15 Leigh Halfpenny
Replacements
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Nicky Smith
18 Samson Lee
19 Cory Hill
20 Taulupe Faletau
21 Lloyd Williams
22 Sam Davies
23 Jamie Roberts

Carp typing......I meant 1st AI, you know that complete abomination of a game.

Ah right...Gethin was playing rather than Rob Evans, Moriarty rather than Faletau, Davies rather than AWJ, Roberts rather than Jonathan Davies (with Scott Williams switched to 13) and Cuthbert rather than just about anyone...just anyone.

That was a bad looking side - and at that point North was in no kind of form either so all the backs after 10 were either out of position or form. Special.

Wales Team Line-up
Forwards
1 Gethin Jenkins (CAPTAIN)
2 Ken Owens
3 Samson Lee
4 Bradley Davies
5 Luke Charteris
6 Dan Lydiate
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Ross Moriarty
Backs
9 Rhys Webb
10 Dan Biggar
11 George North
12 Jamie Roberts
13 Scott Williams*
14 Alex Cuthbert
15 Leigh Halfpenny
Replacements
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Nicky Smith
18 Tomas Francis
19 Cory Hill
20 James King
21 Gareth Davies
22 Sam Davies
23 Hallam Amos

Howler in full flow - tremendous

A lovely start to the weekend

Sounds like we did very well considering we lost Kirchner and Morgan early on

Good hands, basics, set piece, defense, all much improved. Pretorius was a handful, makes Charlie Davies look slower than a Porthcawl donkey ride. Strange seeing Jumbo at 8, but it seemed to work with Keddie at 6, and Brown leaning hard on the same side, nice distribution of weight that enabled Jumbo to use his pace of the back of the scrum well. Elliott Dee was in great form, really is a quality player when fit, and Jack Dixon was chop tackling like a vintage Lydiate all game. I know it's not the biggest test we'll face this year, but fudge me was I pleased with the commitment and result. Well done boys.

Steff Evans to start v Australia?

George played well yesterday for the Saints by all accounts, probably be the three usual suspects

The crowd (supporters) are getting very p*ssed off with the coaches at the Os. We are playing like headless chickens, with no sign of improvement. Why they left Biggar until the 77th minute, god knows. There is no direction at all, I`m dreading facing the Scarlets, we are going to get well and truely stuffed if we play anything like that against them.

We were lucky to get a losing bonus point.

GWO2 wrote:The crowd (supporters) are getting very p*ssed off with the coaches at the Os. We are playing like headless chickens, with no sign of improvement. Why they left Biggar until the 77th minute, god knows. There is no direction at all, I`m dreading facing the Scarlets, we are going to get well and truely stuffed if we play anything like that against them.

We were lucky to get a losing bonus point.

Couldn't string 4 passes together even

Could be worse, you could be the Bloos.

I watched both the Blues and the Ospreys today..... sigh.....

Clive Simms wrote:

GWO2 wrote:The crowd (supporters) are getting very p*ssed off with the coaches at the Os. We are playing like headless chickens, with no sign of improvement. Why they left Biggar until the 77th minute, god knows. There is no direction at all, I`m dreading facing the Scarlets, we are going to get well and truely stuffed if we play anything like that against them.

We were lucky to get a losing bonus point.

Couldn't string 4 passes together even

It will only get worse with Allen Clarke in the coaching set-up.

Expect there to be a split in the coaching camp by the end of season, he's a divisive character. The difference with Ulsters forwards (even missing forwards such as Coetzee, Henderson, Best and Deysel) under Gibbs this season is already showing, after only 3 performances.