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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:57 am 
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Forgot about Amos as well. One of the form players in the AIs...and another player to push Alex Cuthbert down the pecking order.
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Not Frankie
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:32 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
Frodder wrote:
bessantj wrote:
Impressive by England, Wales are going to have their hands full next week.


To put it mildly. Scotland didn't pressure our back 3 at all with any box kicks - England will. Scotland didn't run at us with any purpose - England will. Scotland didn't protect the ball at all - England will


Scotland didn't invade a foreign country, murder/subjugate its people and steal it's natural resources - England ..........


:x Filthy Saes bastar*s. I'm going to punch a Yorkshire pudding in the face in Tesco, filthy savoury cake.
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bessantj
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Not Frankie wrote:
bessantj wrote:
Frodder wrote:
bessantj wrote:
Impressive by England, Wales are going to have their hands full next week.


To put it mildly. Scotland didn't pressure our back 3 at all with any box kicks - England will. Scotland didn't run at us with any purpose - England will. Scotland didn't protect the ball at all - England will


Scotland didn't invade a foreign country, murder/subjugate its people and steal it's natural resources - England ..........


:x Filthy Saes bastar*s. I'm going to punch a Yorkshire pudding in the face in Tesco, filthy savoury cake.


Have you seen that Yorkshire pudding pizza that Morrisons have launched? x(
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:50 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
Not Frankie wrote:
bessantj wrote:
Frodder wrote:
bessantj wrote:
Impressive by England, Wales are going to have their hands full next week.


To put it mildly. Scotland didn't pressure our back 3 at all with any box kicks - England will. Scotland didn't run at us with any purpose - England will. Scotland didn't protect the ball at all - England will


Scotland didn't invade a foreign country, murder/subjugate its people and steal it's natural resources - England ..........


:x Filthy Saes bastar*s. I'm going to punch a Yorkshire pudding in the face in Tesco, filthy savoury cake.


Have you seen that Yorkshire pudding pizza that Morrisons have launched? x(


I'm both curious and disgusted in almost equal measures....
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A5D5E5
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
New guy wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
It's incredible how much depth we have stumbled upon all of a sudden. Especially back row and back 3


Just moving this response from my ratings thread as it seems more at home here.

And with regards to the above, the depth of the backrow at least, has been heavily foreshadowed over the last 5-10 years with our U.20's. Same with the front row. We've done reasonably well in the U.20's (averaged completed U.20 World Cup finishing position puts us at about the 4th/5th most successful team ever, which given our playing pool resources, is very good. U.20's 6 Nations finishing positions over the same time frame has us at an average of finishing 3rd).

A lot of that is down to us consistently producing good front rows, and good backrows. We always produce decet halfbacks, and good back 3 players...our problem is that those players are invariably smaller than you'd like at international level.

I'm a firm believer that you need at least 3 layers of 'depth' to count as having decent depth in that position. We're still shy on a fair few position, but in a good handful of the positions on the field, I reckon we meet that criteria (Hooker, loosehead, openside, blindside, scrumhalf, outside half), and we've approached a position where we at least have 2 layers of depth for the rest.

The only major issue is that we don't have another comparable player to AWJ. Essentially, our second XV + AWJ is still a decent enough team (not World beaters of course, but not embarrassments either).


I only managed to catch about 2 minutes of the U20's on Friday but Max Williams who was playing lock looked absolutely enormous.

Anybody know if he's any good? If Wales could magic up a couple of 6'8 locks we'll have a seriously good rugby team. Grand slam winning good.


Given the, uh, way he looks, there's obvious comparisons to be made to Maro Itoji, but I don't think he's anywhere near that level. But he may get there. Seems a tad light at the height (104kg at 6 foot 5 is fairly skinny). Itoji for example is an inch shorter but 12kg heavier (that's almost 2 stone of muscle more!).

But he's young, and he can bulk up. If we can poach Sam Moore as well, we may have the makings of some sort of lock depth moving forward.


Jeff - I think you are confusing Max Williams with one of his smaller brothers, Med and Min.
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
New guy wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
New guy wrote:
Given the, uh, way he looks, there's obvious comparisons to be made to Maro Itoji, but I don't think he's anywhere near that level. But he may get there. Seems a tad light at the height (104kg at 6 foot 5 is fairly skinny). Itoji for example is an inch shorter but 12kg heavier (that's almost 2 stone of muscle more!).

But he's young, and he can bulk up. If we can poach Sam Moore as well, we may have the makings of some sort of lock depth moving forward.


He didn't look slight. I also think he might have been a tad taller than 6'5 as he was towering over the other players but it's not always that easy to tell


We won't get a full gauge on his size until he consistently turns out for some Pro games.


Bernard Jackman certainly likes the look of him;

Quote:
Max Williams has been the find of pre-season.

“He is a kid that I didn’t know much about.

“He only played one game for the firsts last year so he wasn’t in any of the footage I looked at.

“But he has been a surprise, he’s been excellent, and somebody we see a huge future for.

“He’s very athletic in the second row but we’re trying to make him into a six because he’s a pretty good lineout forward.

And even though he’s not as big as he probably will be, he actually wins a lot of collisions.

“He’s just a good, intelligent young man who wants to play well for the Dragons and is from the region.

“He could be a potential rough diamond


If it wasn't for injury he'd have featured a lot I reckon. Still very young so plenty of time to grow but he does look like one of the more interesting lock prospects in the last few years. Just don't want Jackman trying to convert him to 6...we've got enough of those, but we're desperate for locks.
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Clive Simms
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:23 pm 
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In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was
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cubby boi
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Clive Simms wrote:
In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was


His performance against Scotland was a little underwhelming.
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Frodder
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:19 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was


His performance against Scotland was a little underwhelming.


The LHP wasn't a little underwhelming. He's got potential
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was


His performance against Scotland was a little underwhelming.


The LHP wasn't a little underwhelming. He's got potential


Yeesh, tough crowd. Williams disrupted scottish line out ball, worked hard, hitting rucks, carried often...including one break (when admittedly he should have passed), and generally did what locks do. As a Dragons fan I was obviously looking out for him, and I noticed him involved a lot. He may not have been spectacular, but he was pretty good.

Carre was more conspicuous, no doubt. He loves a carry, scrummages well, and he looks like he's got a huge future. The scrum really started to motor when the replacement tighthead came on.
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c69
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was


His performance against Scotland was a little underwhelming.


The LHP wasn't a little underwhelming. He's got potential

Carre? The big ginger lump?
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GWO2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Anyone see any changes for the next game? I don`t see any myself after Saturday, but, We wont find it anywhere near as easy as Scotland let it be.I think every player deserves to play on merit. I just hope that my nagging misgivings on Patchell being flakey under pressure, are put to bed against England, because he is going to be under a lot more pressure than he saw against the Scots. Also how about the subs? Anscombe did nothing to convince me he deserves his place but who to pick instead? Will North and Williams feature in selection bearing in mind, neither have played much rugby for a long time?
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:18 pm 
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c69 wrote:
Frodder wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was


His performance against Scotland was a little underwhelming.


The LHP wasn't a little underwhelming. He's got potential

Carre? The big ginger lump?


He's a big ginger, mobile, hard carrying, jackalling, scrummager....yeah. Played very well.
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:21 pm 
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GWO2 wrote:
Anyone see any changes for the next game? I don`t see any myself after Saturday, but, We wont find it anywhere near as easy as Scotland let it be.I think every player deserves to play on merit. I just hope that my nagging misgivings on Patchell being flakey under pressure, are put to bed against England, because he is going to be under a lot more pressure than he saw against the Scots. Also how about the subs? Anscombe did nothing to convince me he deserves his place but who to pick instead? Will North and Williams feature in selection bearing in mind, neither have played much rugby for a long time?


Those are the only questions for me - can't see any other changes. 1/2p is going to be the FB, and you'd have to think Steff Evans will hold the one wing spot...so just a question of whether we risk Liam or North will limited game time over a quality young winger in Adams. Unless one of those guys is absolutely tearing it up in training I can't see them getting ahead on such limited game time...but Gatland has sprung surprises from time to time (although mostly in the dim and distant past).
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LandOTurk
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:28 pm 
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I would pick the same team , but change Steff for Liam. It's harsh I know. However, unsure if Liam had any game time in last few weeks.
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LandOTurk
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Did you see Mike Philips yesterday tweet that Scotland should have had more Lions. :lol: :lol: cheeky git
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P in VG
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:34 pm 
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LandOTurk wrote:
I would pick the same team , but change Steff for Liam. It's harsh I know. However, unsure if Liam had any game time in last few weeks.


No way - Steff was electric on Saturday. If anyone is getting dropped it will Josh Adams - but he played well also so I dont think he should
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LandOTurk
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:22 pm 
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P in VG wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
I would pick the same team , but change Steff for Liam. It's harsh I know. However, unsure if Liam had any game time in last few weeks.


No way - Steff was electric on Saturday. If anyone is getting dropped it will Josh Adams - but he played well also so I dont think he should


He was very good, BUT, my reasoning is that he wasn't challenged much by Scotand in defence. Even when he was tackling it was not overly convincing. I think the saes will give him a proper go, and at this level, your weaknesses wil be found out. Just my tupence.
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cubby boi
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Frodder wrote:
cubby boi wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
In years to come Max Williams will be seen as the player Maro Itoje nearly was


His performance against Scotland was a little underwhelming.


The LHP wasn't a little underwhelming. He's got potential


Looks a very tidy prospect
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cubby boi
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:35 pm 
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I’m not buying all the fan fair around HP being back to his best. He got in the end of a couple of tries and kicked his goals. He made 21m ffs. That’s shocking for a ball retrieving fullback. He also did his usual dropping us in the shit with his complete inability to evade the first defender when retrieving kicks - most notably the one where he conceded the 5m scrum. Liam would have found a way out there.

The problem we have now is that with Patchell at 10 we don’t have an experienced international goal kicker in the side. Could Patchel step up? Who knows, but I’d stick Liam straight in at 15 if he is fully fit. We can’t carry passengers against England.
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Dai another day
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:39 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
I’m not buying all the fan fair around HP being back to his best. He got in the end of a couple of tries and kicked his goals. He made 21m ffs. That’s shocking for a ball retrieving fullback. He also did his usual dropping us in the shit with his complete inability to evade the first defender when retrieving kicks - most notably the one where he conceded the 5m scrum. Liam would have found a way out there.

The problem we have now is that with Patchell at 10 we don’t have an experienced international goal kicker in the side. Could Patchel step up? Who knows, but I’d stick Liam straight in at 15 if he is fully fit. We can’t carry passengers against England.


I’m with you on this. I’m still not overly enthused to see Halfpenny at full back. Two relatively simple tries and a good day with the boot.

It will take more than one good performance to persuade me his is the man for the 15 shirt to take us forward.
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Patchell was dropping back quite often to receive and run the ball back - 1/2p tended to take the shittiest balls, and to be fair the scots were on top of him quickly...but maybe Liam would have done his ridiculous bandy legged thing and got out, who knows.

1/2p was trying to hit the line, hence the tries, so that was positive, but there's no doubt we trade defensive solidity and goal kicking for counter attack. If we play as well as we did on Saturday that is quite compelling, as long as the rest of the team are creating opportunities. The case for someone like Liam at FB will grow louder if we lack creativity at any point. If everyone was fit I would still prefer something like North, Steff Evans and Liam at 15, but off the back of that performance I can't see anyone being dropped.
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Just looking at the ESPN stats and Ken Owens was quiet. 2 passes, 3 runs for 0 metres, 7 tackles, 1 missed. He's been in excellent form - bit surprising that in a game like that we didn't see more of him.
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cubby boi
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:05 pm 
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penguin wrote:
Just looking at the ESPN stats and Ken Owens was quiet. 2 passes, 3 runs for 0 metres, 7 tackles, 1 missed. He's been in excellent form - bit surprising that in a game like that we didn't see more of him.


Certainly looked a quiet game from him to me
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Dai another day
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Cometh the moment, cometh the Dee?
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penguin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Nah, he'll be fine... Just a strange one where the ball didn't seem to come to him. I'm sure he was offering himself.
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Clive
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Very pleased with Wales, I've read a lot of comments regarding how poor Scotland was, well I think this was more down to Wales than anything else they corralled the Scots into a blind alley and it worked perfectly.
As for team selection I think the only one dropped to the bench will be Josh, either to make way for North or Penny, there is no way Gatland will drop Half, so I think Liam will come back and Pence on the wing, and North to bench.

England will be very hard, but I think the mind set will be fudge um, The Scarlets have shown wherever they play against top quality teams they seem to go out with the right mental attitude, I think its bound to rub off on the other Welsh players and Wales have the game to beat them, execute that right and its game on.
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Jeff the Bear
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Probably my favourite thing from the weekend was Steff Evans, knowing 1/2p's difficulty in scoring, and even though 1/2p was heading directly towards the try line and was no more than about 7 metres away...still thought it necessary to point to where he was supposed to go. :lol:

Image
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GWO2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Suddenly realised I haven`t seen Henry post for a while. Is he OK or banned? :nod:
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Not Frankie
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Blouses off to Ponty to appease the doley moaners? We'll soon see... "Mun"

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/cardiff-blues-considering-move-away-14250484
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Clive Simms
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:25 pm 
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GWO2 wrote:
Suddenly realised I haven`t seen Henry post for a while. Is he OK or banned? :nod:


Too emabarrassed about previous posts about Shingler and Steff Evs probably
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Frodder
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Put Sanjay on the bench as he hasn't played for a while which means Anscombe dropping out. North is a conundrum, he's so off the pace every time I've seen him but on his game and he's a starter
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Clive Simms
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Got to feel for Hallam. Very good Autumn but now surely just a squad filler
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New guy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:54 pm 
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cubby boi wrote:
I’m not buying all the fan fair around HP being back to his best. He got in the end of a couple of tries and kicked his goals. He made 21m ffs. That’s shocking for a ball retrieving fullback. He also did his usual dropping us in the shit with his complete inability to evade the first defender when retrieving kicks - most notably the one where he conceded the 5m scrum. Liam would have found a way out there.

The problem we have now is that with Patchell at 10 we don’t have an experienced international goal kicker in the side. Could Patchel step up? Who knows, but I’d stick Liam straight in at 15 if he is fully fit. We can’t carry passengers against England.


I think that's harsh, I thought he was MOTM.

Whether 1 good performance undoes 2 years of underwhelming performances is another issue but I think he's earned another start next weekend, as have Adams and Evans.

Really don't want to see the usual half fit players parachuted in
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New guy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:55 pm 
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Clive Simms wrote:
Got to feel for Hallam. Very good Autumn but now surely just a squad filler


He'll get another chance. Somebody will have a stinker, somebody else will get injured and before you know it he's back in.
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Frodder
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:57 pm 
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New guy wrote:
Clive Simms wrote:
Got to feel for Hallam. Very good Autumn but now surely just a squad filler


He'll get another chance. Somebody will have a stinker, somebody else will get injured and before you know it he's back in.


Yep, you know what we're like. 1 bad game and we'll be calling for everyone to be dropped :smug:
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bessantj
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Ah bollocks I saw Jeff's post and thought we could finally embed youtube videos. Though having looked at a highlights vid anyone feel that some of our backs are a bit slow?
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New guy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:09 pm 
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bessantj wrote:
Ah bollocks I saw Jeff's post and thought we could finally embed youtube videos. Though having looked at a highlights vid anyone feel that some of our backs are a bit slow?


Completely unscientific speed measurements of our backs;

Gareth Davies: Very quick over short distances
Patchell: Deceptively quick
Scott Williams: Average
Parkes: Slow
Steff: Slow for a winger
Adam's: f**king rapid
Halfpenny: Running in treacle/10
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bessantj
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:18 pm 
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It's a bit of a worry that we don't have super fast wingers. But it hasn't seemed to stop Wales scoring tries. Also:

Quote:
George North and Liam Williams are in contention to start for Wales against England in the Six Nations, but there are concerns over lock Cory Hill.

British and Irish Lions backs North and Williams missed Saturday's 34-7 win over Scotland in which Hill suffered a blow to the head.

The Dragons lock is going through head injury protocols while both North and Williams trained with Wales on Monday.


x( Injury factory.
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eldanielfire
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:34 pm 
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LandOTurk wrote:
Did you see Mike Philips yesterday tweet that Scotland should have had more Lions. :lol: :lol: cheeky git



Saw that on Scrum V. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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