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The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=90434
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Author:  Uthikoloshe [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

wamberal99 wrote:
It would be nice to think that there can be some kind of fairy tale ending. But there cannot, and will not, be one.

What ever, Comrade.
You should read Chinese history. They gain and lose things constantly.

Author:  wamberal99 [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Uthikoloshe wrote:
wamberal99 wrote:
It would be nice to think that there can be some kind of fairy tale ending. But there cannot, and will not, be one.

What ever, Comrade.
You should read Chinese history. They gain and lose things constantly.



I spent 15 or so years of my life living amongst Chinese history.

Author:  happyhooker [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

wamberal99 wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:
wamberal99 wrote:
It would be nice to think that there can be some kind of fairy tale ending. But there cannot, and will not, be one.

What ever, Comrade.
You should read Chinese history. They gain and lose things constantly.



I spent 15 or so years of my living amongst Chinese history.

You're lucky he didn't post a disturbing and unfunny meme

Author:  wamberal99 [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

happyhooker wrote:
You're lucky he didn't post a disturbing and unfunny meme



Why do you think I might give a flying fark? I am lucky to have had the experiences I have had, not to mention the opportunity to work as an expatriate in Hong Kong, also in Thailand. Not to mention PNG.


I am happy to share my opinions, which are based on experience on the ground, not on theory.

Author:  Uthikoloshe [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

wamberal99 wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:
wamberal99 wrote:
It would be nice to think that there can be some kind of fairy tale ending. But there cannot, and will not, be one.

What ever, Comrade.
You should read Chinese history. They gain and lose things constantly.



I spent 15 or so years of my life living amongst Chinese history.

Yet you say there can never be fairy tale endings. :lol:

Author:  Flockwitt [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.

Author:  BlackMac [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

The Optimist wrote:
Hong Police the brown shirts of our time.

They know what is right but are too cowardly to stand up to the nazis. Good guys do what is right, not bend over and grab your ankles.


:roll: Funny how those least likely to have to face such a decision are always the first to line up against those that do.

Author:  village [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/20/s ... ness-trip/

Well this is worrying.

Quote:
A staff member from the British Consulate General in Hong Kong has been missing in mainland China for over 10 days after crossing the border for a business trip. Hong Kong authorities in the mainland have been following up on the incident.

Simon Cheng Man-kit, a trade and investment officer at the Scottish Development International section of the consulate, attended a business event in Shenzhen on August 8 via the Lo Wu control point, but never returned to the city despite a prior plan to arrive back the same day on the Express Rail Link, Cheng’s girlfriend told news outlet HK01


Meanwhile this side of the border:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/pol ... n-o-tunnel

Quote:
An unidentified man launched an unprovoked knife attack on three people, critically injuring one, near a Hong Kong “Lennon Wall” in the early hours of Tuesday morning.
The suspect stabbed his victims – two women aged 26 and 35 and a man aged 24 – after hearing their views on the anti-government protests that have rocked the city, witnesses said.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/pol ... n-o-tunnel

Things had been calming down and Sunday's march was peaceful but these incidents and the CCTV footage all over today's news showing HKPF officers beating a 62 year old man on a hospital bed threaten to stoke it all back up again.

Author:  Sensible Stephen [ Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Propaganda in full swing...

Image

Author:  naki111 [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Flockwitt wrote:
Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.


The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.

Author:  Sensible Stephen [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

naki111 wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.


The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.


Yeah, Chinese hate the Chinese. Malaysian, Taiwanese, HK, Philippine, Indo, Australian Chinese all hate mainland Chinese. The reverse holds true also.

Author:  naki111 [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Sensible Stephen wrote:
naki111 wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Still not sure where this is going. One thing is for sure. China's going to be increasingly nervous if these sort of crowds turn out. There's a lot of Chinese nationals that are be peering over the boarder watching this.


The Hong Kong protest movement has very little to no support in mainland China. My wechat moments are blowing up on a daily basis now with Chinese nationalism and condemnation of the ‘rioters’ and ‘foreign interference’ in Hong Kong’s affairs. I don’t talk about politics too much with Chinese people over here because it’s an obvious minefield but there isn’t a lot of empathy generally between mainland Chinese and Hong Kongers. This is even true for mainland Chinese who have lived, worked and studied overseas and enjoyed the benefits of of western liberal institutions, rule of law, separation of powers etc etc.


Yeah, Chinese hate the Chinese. Malaysian, Taiwanese, HK, Philippine, Indo, Australian Chinese all hate mainland Chinese. The reverse holds true also.


I saw earlier in the thread your prediction that the PRC would try to invade Taiwan within five years. Could you expand on your reasons for that timeframe?

Author:  Sensible Stephen [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

naki111 wrote:

I saw earlier in the thread your prediction that the PRC would try to invade Taiwan within five years. Could you expand on your reasons for that timeframe?


Xi has said he is losing patience with Taiwan. He will want to unite the two countries before July 2021 to mark the 100th anniversary of the founding of the CCP. If he is successful in HK, then I don't see why he won't use misinformation and other methods to undermine Taiwan.

The Joint Island Attack Campaign may or may not be required.

Author:  village [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

One of the three stabbed on Monday morning is in critical condition. The knifeman was caught at the border trying to sneak back into China.

It's been 7 days without tear gas in HK, but that looks about to change. Hardcore protesters have taken over Yuen Long MTR station & barricaded it. They are using fire extinguishers to keep the police at bay. Riot police & Raptor squad outside now & have not allowed media to go inside. Livestream from inside and outside: https://ncehk2019.github.io/nce-live/?visibleCount=9 could get ugly.

Author:  Taranaki Snapper [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Raptor Squad sounds AWESOME!

Image

has there been any discussion on previous pages regarding the pro and anti protests on campuses around the world, the fake Chinese Police cars that attended same in Perth and Adelaide and my favourite, the co-opting of D8/Di Bar/Fanquan in the propaganda war? Fascinating stuff, IMO...

Author:  Hong Kong [ Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

So today, the cockroaches have returned and apart from trashing a number of shops, throwing bricks and more Molotov cocktails, have included stabbing a cop in the back and we have fired ONE warning shot. 😢

Author:  Taranaki Snapper [ Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Image

Author:  Kiwias [ Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Image

2, 1

Author:  Sensible Stephen [ Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Image


Loora88888? Whats she got to do with any of this??

Author:  Glaston [ Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Taranaki Snapper wrote:
Image

Damn :shock:
That little half smile!

Author:  Glaston [ Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.

"supposedly routine troop movements"

Author:  wamberal99 [ Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Glaston wrote:
I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.

"supposedly routine troop movements"



Nothing is routine in the PRC, or in HKG either.

Author:  Hong Kong [ Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

wamberal99 wrote:
Glaston wrote:
I was going to mention reports of troop movements into Hong Kong.

"supposedly routine troop movements"



Nothing is routine in the PRC, or in HKG either.

it's a bit of both - regular troop movement plus media playing up the fact that it's happening

Author:  village [ Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Several pro-democracy leaders were arrested this morning ahead of what might be another weekend of violence. The protest march organised for Saturday had been banned by police and the organisers were beaten up yesterday by auxiliary police officers (or Triads as they are commonly known). There's a general strike on monday. The recording made by the girl whose eye was blown out by a police bean-bag round is everywhere on social media and yesterday the protestors screened a documentary on the Ukraine maidan in a dozen locations around the city. It's a rather worrying parallel they wish to draw. Clearly there is an element of the hardcore pro-dems who want to make this as a revolution. I'm afraid I really don't see this all ending without something rather bloody taking place. :((

Author:  Sensible Stephen [ Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

village wrote:
Several pro-democracy leaders were arrested this morning ahead of what might be another weekend of violence. The protest march organised for Saturday had been banned by police and the organisers were beaten up yesterday by auxiliary police officers (or Triads as they are commonly known). There's a general strike on monday. The recording made by the girl whose eye was blown out by a police bean-bag round is everywhere on social media and yesterday the protestors screened a documentary on the Ukraine maidan in a dozen locations around the city. It's a rather worrying parallel they wish to draw. Clearly there is an element of the hardcore pro-dems who want to make this as a revolution. I'm afraid I really don't see this all ending without something rather bloody taking place. :((


I have a few friends with dual residency - they are looking at selling up and packing it in.

Author:  village [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

This town is f**ked thanks to the brown-shirt thugs working for Carrie Lam. There's no curfew but it's basically illegal to be on the street at night these days if you happen to be in an area where it kicks off. Just now the police rushed onto an MTR train in Prince Edward, tear gassed the passengers (protesters mostly but its 11pm on the main underground line, a long way from the protests trouble spot in Causeway Bay), beat them with batons and dragged them off to custody. They don't give a fudge for due process here anymore.

Image

Author:  village [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

It's absolute chaos all across town on the MTR tonight. Cops beating people who are quite clearly not protesters. Some poor guy on his way home from a hospital visit in Yau Ma Tei. It's f**king vile.

https://twitter.com/stegersaurus/status ... 3431828480

Author:  village [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

And plenty of suspicion that the molotovs being thrown are by undercover cops.

https://twitter.com/BeWaterHKG/status/1 ... 1095705600

Author:  wamberal99 [ Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

There's a story in today's Sydney Morning Herald that features interviews with schoolkids as young as 15 who joined the protests.

Hearts and minds. It looks as though that idiot Lam is well on the way to radicalising a generation. One thing about Hong Kong people, they are really tough when they want to be.

Author:  Macrosan [ Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

wamberal99 wrote:
There's a story in today's Sydney Morning Herald that features interviews with schoolkids as young as 15 who joined the protests.

Hearts and minds. It looks as though that idiot Lam is well on the way to radicalising a generation. One thing about Hong Kong people, they are really tough when they want to be.

Indeed, my wife is Cantonese, and like the Vietnamese, are lovely until backed into a corner, then all hell is unleashed.
PS I would bet money there are agent provocateurs among the protestors - whether they are Soros minions, CCP people, or CIA agents (or indeed a combination of these) is anyone's guess.

Author:  village [ Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

15? Meh, he's an older one. They arrested a 13 year old with a molotov on Saturday.

Author:  village [ Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

HK Govt have pledged to formally withdraw the extradition bill which caused all the fuss and mass marches.

That's just 1 of 5 demands the hardcore protesters have though and early indication is they won't back down yet.

I'm sure a large number of sunday peaceful marchers will be satisfied with it though (although a swath of the public feel there should also be an independent investigation into the behaviour of the police over the past 3 months but that's not going to happen).

Not quite sure why Carrie Lam did this now and not before. Obviously its because she felt the jerk on her puppet string but its less clear why Beijing did it.

Author:  Sensible Stephen [ Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

village wrote:
HK Govt have pledged to formally withdraw the extradition bill which caused all the fuss and mass marches.

That's just 1 of 5 demands the hardcore protesters have though and early indication is they won't back down yet.

I'm sure a large number of sunday peaceful marchers will be satisfied with it though (although a swath of the public feel there should also be an independent investigation into the behaviour of the police over the past 3 months but that's not going to happen).

Not quite sure why Carrie Lam did this now and not before. Obviously its because she felt the jerk on her puppet string but its less clear why Beijing did it.


Hope so. A few hardcore protesters without the numbers of the more peaceful protesters won't last long.

Bit disturbing that Lam can't even step down. She really is just a puppet.

Author:  wamberal99 [ Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Maybe the goons in Beijing realise that there is no upside for them in the protests continuing. I suspect they assumed that things would quieten down once the summer holiday season ended.

I agree that the population at large would probably be fairly happy that the extradition nonsense has been shelved, and now it will be back to business as usual. Making money.

Author:  massive_field_goal [ Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

I'd say business leaders (ie elite) started to really worry about economic fallout. The fact Lam was having secret meetings with a group of them before acquiescing says it all.

Author:  wamberal99 [ Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Hong Hong is run by the elites, always has been. It is certainly not under the rule of a Westminster system of parliament.


Lam does what she is told. Either by Beijing, or by the local HK fellow travellers. They miscalculated a bit, they assumed that things would fizzle out when school went back. They decided to eat humble pie. Or rice.

Author:  village [ Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

Trouble is the humble pie price might have gone up. What the public would have accepted in June (Bill withdrawal) may not be enough after 3 months of police acting like thugs. The rumour that they beat a man to death last Saturday in Prince Edward MTR & covered it up is still all over social media here. It may well be bollocks but people are ready to believe anything of HK cops these days. Hence the demand for a public inquiry, but I don't expect they'll get it.

Author:  wamberal99 [ Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

If the population loses faith in the integrity of the police force, that would be absolutely terrible. That is what happens in a dictatorship.



If the "government" of Hong Kong does not do something drastic to fix the situation, they will stand condemned.


And it will be the end for Hong Kong.

Author:  Floppykid [ Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

village wrote:
Trouble is the humble pie price might have gone up. What the public would have accepted in June (Bill withdrawal) may not be enough after 3 months of police acting like thugs. The rumour that they beat a man to death last Saturday in Prince Edward MTR & covered it up is still all over social media here. It may well be bollocks but people are ready to believe anything of HK cops these days. Hence the demand for a public inquiry, but I don't expect they'll get it.

Are the HK cops not Hkers?
Are they brought in or does the power turn them into loyal CCP men?

Author:  village [ Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The masses against the (political) classes in Hong Kong

They are HKers and I know some have been shunned by friends and family and come under pressure outside of work. They are in a tough spot and I'm sure some of the over-reaction and aggression stems from the prolonged period of intense front line conditions they have been dealing with. I'm also sure they are under pressure from CCP making it clear to their bosses what is expected.

There are also rumours and suspicion that the police have been 'beefed up' with mainland cops or PLA dressed in HK gear. Probably its hysteria but that's rife.

There was another big protest in Mong Kok last night. People are pretty convinced at least 1 person was beaten to death inside Prince Edward MTR last saturday and the govt is covering it up. The trust in authority has gone completely thanks to incidents like Yuen Long and the police refusal to acknowledge their wrongs such as the girl losing an eye. Today the public transport system is already shutting down to try and head off a protest at the airport. What a way to run a city.

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