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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:29 pm 
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terryfinch wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
Frog Flair wrote:
I'm devastated.

It's the firt time since i've been following the Tour that i really believed a French could win. :((

The last couple of days turned what was my favourite Tour into the worst one ever.

At this point, it seems like everyone and their mother can win it except the French.

That said, of all the other leaders, I'm glad Bernal won as he is an entertaining rider. He is having a fantastic season and should win more Grand Tours in the future.


Don't despair. I think French cycling is going to make the break through in the next couple of years.

Where's Pierre Rolland these days?



It will be fascinating to see how the TDF planners try to help the French riders for the next few years. They've tried lots of time trails but that favoured the strong men like Wiggins, Thomas, Froome and Dumoulin. They tried loads of climbs but that favoured the Columbians. What next?


LBL type of profile :twisted:

Racing in Britanny, northern France and central massif.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:37 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
Frog Flair wrote:
I'm devastated.

It's the firt time since i've been following the Tour that i really believed a French could win. :((

The last couple of days turned what was my favourite Tour into the worst one ever.

At this point, it seems like everyone and their mother can win it except the French.

That said, of all the other leaders, I'm glad Bernal won as he is an entertaining rider. He is having a fantastic season and should win more Grand Tours in the future.


Don't despair. I think French cycling is going to make the break through in the next couple of years.

Where's Pierre Rolland these days?


It will be fascinating to see how the TDF planners try to help the French riders for the next few years. They've tried lots of time trails but that favoured the strong men like Wiggins, Thomas, Froome and Dumoulin. They tried loads of climbs but that favoured the Columbians. What next?


LBL type of profile :twisted:

Racing in Britanny, northern France and central massif.

Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:41 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.

There was a comment by David Miller where he claimed that this year's edition was planned with Bardet in mind. He wasn't really at his best despite winning the mountain classification. From the outside looking in it seems that the form of France's best riders can be a tad indifferent year to year. Compare that with Sky / Ineos where the GC contender[s] usually manage to put in their best performance of the year at the tour. Geraint being just the latest example.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.

There was a comment by David Miller where he claimed that this year's edition was planned with Bardet in mind. He wasn't really at his best despite winning the mountain classification. From the outside looking in it seems that the form of France's best riders can be a tad indifferent year to year. Compare that with Sky / Ineos where the GC contender[s] usually manage to put in their best performance of the year at the tour. Geraint being just the latest example.


Drugs innit.


.... sorry.....











Marginal gains :P


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Such a shame that one of the most competitive and dramatic tours in living memory ended in such an anti-climax halfway through Fridays stage. We will never know if Bernal's breakaway would have been bought back or if the originally planned Saturday stage would have forced a shake-up in the GC order.

Kudos to Bernal and Ineos for getting it done.

Bring on the Vuelta...


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:47 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Gospel wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.

There was a comment by David Miller where he claimed that this year's edition was planned with Bardet in mind. He wasn't really at his best despite winning the mountain classification. From the outside looking in it seems that the form of France's best riders can be a tad indifferent year to year. Compare that with Sky / Ineos where the GC contender[s] usually manage to put in their best performance of the year at the tour. Geraint being just the latest example.


Drugs innit.


.... sorry.....











Marginal gains :P

So you're saying the french riders take them on alternate years?


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:49 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
Such a shame that one of the most competitive and dramatic tours in living memory ended in such an anti-climax halfway through Fridays stage. We will never know if Bernal's breakaway would have been bought back or if the originally planned Saturday stage would have forced a shake-up in the GC order.

Kudos to Bernal and Ineos for getting it done.

Bring on the Vuelta...

Aye we woz robbed of a really definite showdown. I feel the same with Pinot's injury. How good could it have been with him firmly in the mix all the way to the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:10 pm 
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I think the loss of Pinot hit the race harder than the loss of the 3 cat 1 climbs that got scratched off the list. Even in day 1 in the Alps where we waited for his attack that never came.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:45 am 
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Gospel wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Such a shame that one of the most competitive and dramatic tours in living memory ended in such an anti-climax halfway through Fridays stage. We will never know if Bernal's breakaway would have been bought back or if the originally planned Saturday stage would have forced a shake-up in the GC order.

Kudos to Bernal and Ineos for getting it done.

Bring on the Vuelta...

Aye we woz robbed of a really definite showdown. I feel the same with Pinot's injury. How good could it have been with him firmly in the mix all the way to the end.


TBF I was including him in the "anti-climax halfway though Fridays stage" comment even if the timings don't work


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:37 pm 
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I just can’t shake the suspicion that Pinot is a bit of a Chabal type. Impressive highlights reel and you love to see him at his best, but ultimately lacks ticker and goes missing when the chips are down.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I just can’t shake the suspicion that Pinot is a bit of a Chabal type. Impressive highlights reel and you love to see him at his best, but ultimately lacks ticker and goes missing when the chips are down.

Do you know why he had to abandon the race?

The bloke could hardly walk and he completed a mountain stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:58 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I just can’t shake the suspicion that Pinot is a bit of a Chabal type. Impressive highlights reel and you love to see him at his best, but ultimately lacks ticker and goes missing when the chips are down.

Do you know why he had to abandon the race?

The bloke could hardly walk and he completed a mountain stage.


You are correct.
For armchair, he took a handlebar to the leg and made it worse the next day riding.
He is very unlucky, certainly not as you describe.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:39 pm 
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frillage wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I just can’t shake the suspicion that Pinot is a bit of a Chabal type. Impressive highlights reel and you love to see him at his best, but ultimately lacks ticker and goes missing when the chips are down.

Do you know why he had to abandon the race?

The bloke could hardly walk and he completed a mountain stage.


You are correct.
For armchair, he took a handlebar to the leg and made it worse the next day riding.
He is very unlucky, certainly not as you describe.


However, one of the French posters stated he is quite an insular lad who sticks to his local area and doesn't like long training camps, etc. That might suggest that he does not ultimately have what it takes to take that extra step.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:50 pm 
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I remember when Geraint broke his pelvis on the opening stage of the Tour and rode right through to Paris. He had to be lifted on and off his bike. That's what TDF Champs are made of.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:53 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I just can’t shake the suspicion that Pinot is a bit of a Chabal type. Impressive highlights reel and you love to see him at his best, but ultimately lacks ticker and goes missing when the chips are down.

Do you know why he had to abandon the race?

The bloke could hardly walk and he completed a mountain stage.


Yeah seems a very odd conclusion to come to really after smashing up his leg. Chap fought back in the mountains from serious bad luck and 4 or 5 minutes down to put himself into a position to challenge the strongest rider in the race.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:30 pm 
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Lads I know Pinot took a knock but nobody in the media had a notion he was injured until he started to pull up, so it seems unlikely that the injury was as severe as people are making out. Maybe it’s too many years of French riders flattering to deceive, I just think he has all the class in the world but not necessarily the grit of a guy like Alaphillipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:04 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Do you know why he had to abandon the race?

The bloke could hardly walk and he completed a mountain stage.


Yeah seems a very odd conclusion to come to really after smashing up his leg. Chap fought back in the mountains from serious bad luck and 4 or 5 minutes down to put himself into a position to challenge the strongest rider in the race.

Hey DOB and Bullettyme, video behind the scene of Thibault Pinot, if you speak French watch it or if not go directly to 30'.


https://www.france.tv/france-2/tour-de- ... pinot.html


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:55 am 
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BlackMac wrote:
frillage wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
I just can’t shake the suspicion that Pinot is a bit of a Chabal type. Impressive highlights reel and you love to see him at his best, but ultimately lacks ticker and goes missing when the chips are down.

Do you know why he had to abandon the race?

The bloke could hardly walk and he completed a mountain stage.


You are correct.
For armchair, he took a handlebar to the leg and made it worse the next day riding.
He is very unlucky, certainly not as you describe.


However, one of the French posters stated he is quite an insular lad who sticks to his local area and doesn't like long training camps, etc. That might suggest that he does not ultimately have what it takes to take that extra step.


He doesn’t do altitude training camps. To get into the condition he was clearly in through the Pyrenees, you have to be putting in the work.

G rode a tour with a broken pelvis, and Dan Martin rode one with a broken back, and Lawson Craddock finished last year with a broken collarbone, but I’ve never heard of anyone finishing the Tour with a muscle tear in their leg.

The lesson here is that, for cyclists, bones are sticks that hold the engine upright on the bike. The muscles and lungs are the engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.

There was a comment by David Miller where he claimed that this year's edition was planned with Bardet in mind. He wasn't really at his best despite winning the mountain classification. From the outside looking in it seems that the form of France's best riders can be a tad indifferent year to year. Compare that with Sky / Ineos where the GC contender[s] usually manage to put in their best performance of the year at the tour. Geraint being just the latest example.


Yes, it is really a mystery for Bardet, who usually is on top for the TDF.

I think Pinot was in top form this year, that tigh injury was unfortunate but possibly the result of excess training?

The tour was designed for climbers to challenge, which I think is a good idea. The outcome was a climber winning over a big diesel engine. Shame Landa, Quintana or Bardet didn't have their best climbing legs with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
nardol wrote:
Gospel wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.

There was a comment by David Miller where he claimed that this year's edition was planned with Bardet in mind. He wasn't really at his best despite winning the mountain classification. From the outside looking in it seems that the form of France's best riders can be a tad indifferent year to year. Compare that with Sky / Ineos where the GC contender[s] usually manage to put in their best performance of the year at the tour. Geraint being just the latest example.


Drugs innit.


.... sorry.....











Marginal gains :P

So you're saying the french riders take them on alternate years?


Random quality... cheap stuff purchased via internet.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:33 pm 
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DOB wrote:
I think the loss of Pinot hit the race harder than the loss of the 3 cat 1 climbs that got scratched off the list. Even in day 1 in the Alps where we waited for his attack that never came.


He was already feeling his injury at that point. In the evening, at the hotel, he could barely walk. The next day, he had to give up.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:30 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
I think Pinot was in top form this year, that tigh injury was unfortunate but possibly the result of excess training?

Didn't the team say that he whacked his thigh against the handle bars in avoiding a crash on the Tuesday?
Possibly one of Geraint Thomas's crashes.

Rode through the pain on the Wednesday but had to pull out on Thursday when it got worse.




Such a shame, cause he was looking the best climber at that point and possibly the favourite.
At least the only one who could have stayed with Bernal on the climb (though maybe not the decent).




edit: see now that the injury was covered further up a page I didn't read :blush: :blush:


Last edited by Yer Man on Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:36 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Gospel wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Cobbles and downhill Mountain stages?


Steep hills with uphill finish, downhill mountain stages, and hilly TT.

There was a comment by David Miller where he claimed that this year's edition was planned with Bardet in mind. He wasn't really at his best despite winning the mountain classification. From the outside looking in it seems that the form of France's best riders can be a tad indifferent year to year. Compare that with Sky / Ineos where the GC contender[s] usually manage to put in their best performance of the year at the tour. Geraint being just the latest example.


Yes, it is really a mystery for Bardet, who usually is on top for the TDF.

I think Pinot was in top form this year, that tigh injury was unfortunate but possibly the result of excess training?

The tour was designed for climbers to challenge, which I think is a good idea. The outcome was a climber winning over a big diesel engine. Shame Landa, Quintana or Bardet didn't have their best climbing legs with them.


Two of the biggest diesels Dumoulin and Froome (he is both) were not at the tour. So we never knew how diesels would do.

I like my cyclists to be able to cycle fast - its why I'm not a fan of most of the Colombians, they are generally just excellent climbers.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Except Gaviria. He can't climb for shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:16 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
DOB wrote:
I think the loss of Pinot hit the race harder than the loss of the 3 cat 1 climbs that got scratched off the list. Even in day 1 in the Alps where we waited for his attack that never came.


He was already feeling his injury at that point. In the evening, at the hotel, he could barely walk. The next day, he had to give up.


Exactly, but we didn’t know at the time. As they climbed the Galibier and Bernal escaped, but Thomas was clearly in trouble, it was hard to see why Pinot wasn’t attacking Thomas to try and catch the Colombian. A day later we found out why.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Except Gaviria. He can't climb for shit.


And he is fast :D


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:47 pm 
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DOB wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
DOB wrote:
I think the loss of Pinot hit the race harder than the loss of the 3 cat 1 climbs that got scratched off the list. Even in day 1 in the Alps where we waited for his attack that never came.


He was already feeling his injury at that point. In the evening, at the hotel, he could barely walk. The next day, he had to give up.


Exactly, but we didn’t know at the time. As they climbed the Galibier and Bernal escaped, but Thomas was clearly in trouble, it was hard to see why Pinot wasn’t attacking Thomas to try and catch the Colombian. A day later we found out why.


Real stretch to say Thomas was clearly in trouble considering where he ended up on GC.

It is great to see these harder mountain stages where the GC teams get worn down early and the breakaways have more tactical relevance, but it’s still a three week race. Ineos will have been riding to control things on the climbs that got taken out and we will never know how close the climbers were to breaking them.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
DOB wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
DOB wrote:
I think the loss of Pinot hit the race harder than the loss of the 3 cat 1 climbs that got scratched off the list. Even in day 1 in the Alps where we waited for his attack that never came.


He was already feeling his injury at that point. In the evening, at the hotel, he could barely walk. The next day, he had to give up.


Exactly, but we didn’t know at the time. As they climbed the Galibier and Bernal escaped, but Thomas was clearly in trouble, it was hard to see why Pinot wasn’t attacking Thomas to try and catch the Colombian. A day later we found out why.


Real stretch to say Thomas was clearly in trouble considering where he ended up on GC.

It is great to see these harder mountain stages where the GC teams get worn down early and the breakaways have more tactical relevance, but it’s still a three week race. Ineos will have been riding to control things on the climbs that got taken out and we will never know how close the climbers were to breaking them.


Not in trouble but he didn't have the legs to follow Bernal, or to drop the rest of the bunch, including an injured Pinot.

I think Pinot and Bernal were the strongest riders in this tour, and Alaphilippe the key entertainer.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:30 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
DOB wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
DOB wrote:
I think the loss of Pinot hit the race harder than the loss of the 3 cat 1 climbs that got scratched off the list. Even in day 1 in the Alps where we waited for his attack that never came.


He was already feeling his injury at that point. In the evening, at the hotel, he could barely walk. The next day, he had to give up.


Exactly, but we didn’t know at the time. As they climbed the Galibier and Bernal escaped, but Thomas was clearly in trouble, it was hard to see why Pinot wasn’t attacking Thomas to try and catch the Colombian. A day later we found out why.


Real stretch to say Thomas was clearly in trouble considering where he ended up on GC.

It is great to see these harder mountain stages where the GC teams get worn down early and the breakaways have more tactical relevance, but it’s still a three week race. Ineos will have been riding to control things on the climbs that got taken out and we will never know how close the climbers were to breaking them.


Not in trouble but he didn't have the legs to follow Bernal, or to drop the rest of the bunch, including an injured Pinot.

I think Pinot and Bernal were the strongest riders in this tour, and Alaphilippe the key entertainer.


The only rider who was clearly stronger than Thomas was Bernal. What is his motivation to attack the bunch with two or three massive days to come, a team-mate up the road and an advantage on GC over everyone he is riding with?

The rest of them either burnt themselves out, got injured or both. It is a massive stretch to say Pinot would’ve been stronger over 2 more stages considering he doesn’t like training at altitude.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:

The only rider who was clearly stronger than Thomas was Bernal. What is his motivation to attack the bunch with two or three massive days to come, a team-mate up the road and an advantage on GC over everyone he is riding with?

The rest of them either burnt themselves out, got injured or both. It is a massive stretch to say Pinot would’ve been stronger over 2 more stages considering he doesn’t like training at altitude.


Thomas did attack with Bernal up the road, and Pinot on one leg brought back the reduced bunch on him.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:57 pm 
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Frenchies,

Apparently there was a documentary done on Pinot's tour that was broadcast near the end of the tour that is supposed to be really interesting. You kind chaps wouldn't happen to have some links to a digital version our friends could take a look at would you? Hopefully my French is up to scratch enough in order to follow it,


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:33 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
Frenchies,

Apparently there was a documentary done on Pinot's tour that was broadcast near the end of the tour that is supposed to be really interesting. You kind chaps wouldn't happen to have some links to a digital version our friends could take a look at would you? Hopefully my French is up to scratch enough in order to follow it,

I put it 2 weeks ago on my last post above, but some prefer to ignore it and rants about how Pinot faked his injury.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:35 pm 
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lexpat wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Frenchies,

Apparently there was a documentary done on Pinot's tour that was broadcast near the end of the tour that is supposed to be really interesting. You kind chaps wouldn't happen to have some links to a digital version our friends could take a look at would you? Hopefully my French is up to scratch enough in order to follow it,

I put it 2 weeks ago on my last post above, but some prefer to ignore it and rants about how Pinot faked his injury.


merci. I must have missed your earlier post.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:44 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
lexpat wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Frenchies,

Apparently there was a documentary done on Pinot's tour that was broadcast near the end of the tour that is supposed to be really interesting. You kind chaps wouldn't happen to have some links to a digital version our friends could take a look at would you? Hopefully my French is up to scratch enough in order to follow it,

I put it 2 weeks ago on my last post above, but some prefer to ignore it and rants about how Pinot faked his injury.


merci. I must have missed your earlier post.


Yes, I watched it. It was good. It showed his emotional side going through the tour. I think it was called Thibaut.


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