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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:55 pm 
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johnstrac wrote:
nardol wrote:
Be interesting if next years TdF had more TT elements and Dumoulin is back how Bernal will go. How did he do in the TT?

When is next years route made public?


Mid October usually, I'm waiting to see what stage next years Etape du Tour will be, hopefully Pyrenean (sic?).


Etape is good fun but it has become too big in recent years.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:58 pm 
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johnstrac wrote:
SaintK wrote:
I understand why they have done it.
But has any stage been cut by more than 50% in distance before?


Cut a bunch of distance off the 1996 Sestriere stage, again bad weather.


And in that stage too a French rider in yellow abandoned with severe knee pain. Stephan Heulot iirc.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:47 pm 
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I'm devastated.

It's the firt time since i've been following the Tour that i really believed a French could win. :((

The last couple of days turned what was my favourite Tour into the worst one ever.

At this point, it seems like everyone and their mother can win it except the French.

That said, of all the other leaders, I'm glad Bernal won as he is an entertaining rider. He is having a fantastic season and should win more Grand Tours in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:57 pm 
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This jumbo visma team is basically Rabobank (more than the fact they are their direct heirs). The difference is Rabobank was always very heavily Dutch and with 1/2 foreign recruits at most per grand tour. The Dutch didnt have enough uphill support in the past (ironic looking at the current state with poels Dumoulin Kruiswijk and to lesser extent Mollema). Jumbo visma now stick with the Dutch influence but add a lot more foreign umph. This has allowed them to provide more structure to their grand tours. They have basically taken the sky model of UK spine and quality reinforcements.

Very excited about Dumoulin moving to Jumbo... They will probably lose one of Roglic or Kruiswijk as a result. Roglic would be my guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Shout out to De Plus, Kruiswijks donestique. Future GC rider. TT ability, climbing ability, durable.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:09 pm 
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de Plus turned himself inside out on the final climb. Was a proper 10/10 on the grim-o-meter.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
johnstrac wrote:
SaintK wrote:
I understand why they have done it.
But has any stage been cut by more than 50% in distance before?


Cut a bunch of distance off the 1996 Sestriere stage, again bad weather.


And in that stage too a French rider in yellow abandoned with severe knee pain. Stephan Heulot iirc.


Right year, wrong stage. Heulot abandoned on stage 6 to Aix les Bains.
Riis won the 46 k stage to Sestriere (with some help!).


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
DOB wrote:
Xupi wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
Without a supporting team, its next to impossible to successfully defend the maillot in week 3 of the Tour, or any other three week race against riders who have numbers in their team still.
It's indeed very tough (Roglic in this year's Giro) but it's been done before. Can't remember Cadel Evans having a great supporting team when he won.

Lemond in 89 had a team full of Belgian classics riders. So just as well he didn’t have the jersey for very long to ask anyone to defend it for him.

DOB can I ask your age. You seem to have a lengthy historic knowledge on Le Tour.


Late 50s


Just a few years older than me then.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:08 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Bit of a farce this tour.

The last 3 days were supposed to decide everything. 2 of those 3 turned into a damp squib.


I agree. It reminds me of S8 Game of Thrones.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:42 pm 
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johnstrac wrote:
shereblue wrote:
Youngest TDF winner ever (subject to Sunday). Loco-mbians also party best. Geraint an extremely able, decent and deserved runner up.


Henri Cornet would argue that point.



and, unlike me, he would be quite right :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Well we were treated to a great race this year. Just a shame that the last 2 stages were fut short and that Pinot dropped out. The final could have been phénoménal.


Well done Bernal! Immense rider un the making.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:03 am 
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Great TDF, thoroughly enjoyable, I always liked AP, but he’s an even classier ride than I previously thought, just a great around rider and human being. Irrespective of the two shortened stages, the outcome would have been exactly the same, Bernal first and Thomas runner up. Roll on 2020.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:29 am 
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TheFrog wrote:
Well we were treated to a great race this year. Just a shame that the last 2 stages were fut short and that Pinot dropped out. The final could have been phénoménal.


Well done Bernal! Immense rider un the making.

I don't think the last 2 stages changed any outcome, other than us missing out on better racing for the last 2 days. If Pinot can ever complete a tour he could be a real threat. Alaphilippe made the tour exciting by holding on to yellow far longer than anybody expected.

A relative rides with Bernal and says he's a lovely fellow.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:36 am 
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johnstrac wrote:
Miguel Indurain wrote:
johnstrac wrote:
SaintK wrote:
I understand why they have done it.
But has any stage been cut by more than 50% in distance before?


Cut a bunch of distance off the 1996 Sestriere stage, again bad weather.


And in that stage too a French rider in yellow abandoned with severe knee pain. Stephan Heulot iirc.


Right year, wrong stage. Heulot abandoned on stage 6 to Aix les Bains.
Riis won the 46 k stage to Sestriere (with some help!).


Thanks.

Aix les Bains was the stage. It was cold and damp that day. Indurain bonked, and then got penalised for taking a drink from his support car.

Yeah, Riis's power at sestriere was something else. We now know why of course.

It will be interesting to monitor the health of these guys as they get older to see if there are any side effects.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:39 am 
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Frog Flair wrote:
I'm devastated.

It's the firt time since i've been following the Tour that i really believed a French could win. :((

The last couple of days turned what was my favourite Tour into the worst one ever.

At this point, it seems like everyone and their mother can win it except the French.

That said, of all the other leaders, I'm glad Bernal won as he is an entertaining rider. He is having a fantastic season and should win more Grand Tours in the future.


Don't despair. I think French cycling is going to make the break through in the next couple of years.

Where's Pierre Rolland these days?


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:48 am 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
Frog Flair wrote:
I'm devastated.

It's the firt time since i've been following the Tour that i really believed a French could win. :((

The last couple of days turned what was my favourite Tour into the worst one ever.

At this point, it seems like everyone and their mother can win it except the French.

That said, of all the other leaders, I'm glad Bernal won as he is an entertaining rider. He is having a fantastic season and should win more Grand Tours in the future.


Don't despair. I think French cycling is going to make the break through in the next couple of years.

Where's Pierre Rolland these days?


Vital Concept (exactly) was 6th in the Tour of Aragon this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Anyone know the story with the finish in 1979 when Jooep Zoetemelk attacked Hinault on the final day? They raced it out with the peleton about 2mins behind... Jooep claimed that it was still the done thing back then and him and Hinault are good buddies nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Amazing views of the peloton on the Champs-Elysées at sunset. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:48 pm 
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GDBFC99 wrote:
Amazing views of the peloton on the Champs-Elysées at sunset. :thumbup:


Yes indeed. Thanks to all the guys who emptied their tanks for my Superbru points. I’m humbled 8)

And thanks to Puma too. Good man :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:10 pm 
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nuffsaid wrote:
GDBFC99 wrote:
Amazing views of the peloton on the Champs-Elysées at sunset. :thumbup:


Yes indeed. Thanks to all the guys who emptied their tanks for my Superbru points. I’m humbled 8)

And thanks to Puma too. Good man :thumbup:


Well played man, got me with Nibali on stage 20.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Love the evening stage into Paris. It's a fitting end to a wonderful televisual spectacle. Chapeau to Bernal & G. A worthy new champion and a very credible defence.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:00 pm 
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johnstrac wrote:
nuffsaid wrote:
GDBFC99 wrote:
Amazing views of the peloton on the Champs-Elysées at sunset. :thumbup:


Yes indeed. Thanks to all the guys who emptied their tanks for my Superbru points. I’m humbled 8)

And thanks to Puma too. Good man :thumbup:


Well played man, got me with Nibali on stage 20.


Thanks. I thought you would do it (being in yellow for much of the tour) but as soon as they shortened stage 20 I thought Nibbles would be the man. Great tour :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:24 am 
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Well I was wrong about Caleb Ewen. 3 stage wins and making through in time in the mountains was a fantastic effort. Probably shows he really should have started last year. Seemed to have the final power surged the others lacked. Guess that means he’s the number 1 sprinter around now.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:52 am 
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So another Tour comes to a finish, and this PR thread enters its final few posts - for another year.

A genuine thank you to all the main knowledgeable posters who enrich this race for me. Cycling is becoming more and more one of my favourite sports. I just need to make sure my interest doesn't peak during July and then fade over the other 11 months. Hopefully there is a Vuelta thread in the coming weeks. Cheers mes amis.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:36 am 
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Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:03 am 
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Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


I'm not sure that's the conclusion i take home from the tour - I think the standard of their domestiques has dropped quite a bit from previous years - so whilst they obviously will have those 4 riders you mentioned - i'm not sure they will enter every grand tour with the strongest team as they've done in the past.

Also next year - Froome will be 35, Geraint will be 34... I see the acquisition of Carapaz & Bernal as Ineos getting in their ducks in a row ahead of time.

Like you said- Jumbo (with the addition of Dumoulin) & Movistar (with everything behind Landa) will also be v. strong next year


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:43 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
So another Tour comes to a finish, and this PR thread enters its final few posts - for another year.

A genuine thank you to all the main knowledgeable posters who enrich this race for me. Cycling is becoming more and more one of my favourite sports. I just need to make sure my interest doesn't peak during July and then fade over the other 11 months. Hopefully there is a Vuelta thread in the coming weeks. Cheers mes amis.


Here, here!

*waves order paper*


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:30 am 
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P in VG wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


I'm not sure that's the conclusion i take home from the tour - I think the standard of their domestiques has dropped quite a bit from previous years - so whilst they obviously will have those 4 riders you mentioned - i'm not sure they will enter every grand tour with the strongest team as they've done in the past.

Also next year - Froome will be 35, Geraint will be 34... I see the acquisition of Carapaz & Bernal as Ineos getting in their ducks in a row ahead of time.

Like you said- Jumbo (with the addition of Dumoulin) & Movistar (with everything behind Landa) will also be v. strong next year

Granted that their train didnt do so well in this tour, but they've got some super youngsters coming through for them though. In the past 18 months I've been watching guys like Tao Geoghegan Hart, Eddie Dunbar, Ivan Sosa and Pavel Sivakov emerge.

They can send these two teams to the Giro and Tour next year and would probably win both races:

Giro
Bernal
Thomas
Poels
Sosa
Moscon
Rosa
De La Cruz
Rowe


Tour
Froome
Carapaz
Kwiatkowski
Sivakov
Ellisonde
Geoghegan Hart
Dunbar
Van Baarle


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:07 am 
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Bindi wrote:
Well I was wrong about Caleb Ewen. 3 stage wins and making through in time in the mountains was a fantastic effort. Probably shows he really should have started last year. Seemed to have the final power surged the others lacked. Guess that means he’s the number 1 sprinter around now.


Impressive result for the little man! :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:09 am 
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Beaver_Shark wrote:
P in VG wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


I'm not sure that's the conclusion i take home from the tour - I think the standard of their domestiques has dropped quite a bit from previous years - so whilst they obviously will have those 4 riders you mentioned - i'm not sure they will enter every grand tour with the strongest team as they've done in the past.

Also next year - Froome will be 35, Geraint will be 34... I see the acquisition of Carapaz & Bernal as Ineos getting in their ducks in a row ahead of time.

Like you said- Jumbo (with the addition of Dumoulin) & Movistar (with everything behind Landa) will also be v. strong next year

Granted that their train didnt do so well in this tour, but they've got some super youngsters coming through for them though. In the past 18 months I've been watching guys like Tao Geoghegan Hart, Eddie Dunbar, Ivan Sosa and Pavel Sivakov emerge.

They can send these two teams to the Giro and Tour next year and would probably win both races:

Giro
Bernal
Thomas
Poels
Sosa
Moscon
Rosa
De La Cruz
Rowe


Tour
Froome
Carapaz
Kwiatkowski
Sivakov
Ellisonde
Geoghegan Hart
Dunbar
Van Baarle


What a waste of Carapaz. Unless they keep him as leader for La Vuelta.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:13 am 
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Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


Jumbo with Kruiswijk, Dumoulin, Roglic... going to have some fire power too.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:31 am 
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Moscon is an interesting one because he is a controversial character but they still backed him for the Tour and he didn't produce much.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:42 pm 
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nardol wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


Jumbo with Kruiswijk, Dumoulin, Roglic... going to have some fire power too.

I can't help but think that trying to support green and yellow jerseys will be their downfall.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:01 pm 
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SaintK wrote:
johnstrac wrote:
SaintK wrote:
I understand why they have done it.
But has any stage been cut by more than 50% in distance before?


Cut a bunch of distance off the 1996 Sestriere stage, again bad weather.

Aah, thanks
I just couldn't recall it happening before


Riders strike in the 80s as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:07 pm 
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Leffe wrote:
nardol wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


Jumbo with Kruiswijk, Dumoulin, Roglic... going to have some fire power too.

I can't help but think that trying to support green and yellow jerseys will be their downfall.

Yeah. I think the best thing would be for them to enter their sprinters only in the flatter classics and in one-week stage races. Then go full GC for the grand tours.
But I suppose this might mean that they don't attract top sprinters.

But imagine them putting all their eggs in one basket and fielding this team in the Tour next year:

Dumoulin
Kruiswijk
Roglic
Bennet
De Plus
Tolhoek
Martin
Van Aert


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Beaver_Shark wrote:
Leffe wrote:
nardol wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


Jumbo with Kruiswijk, Dumoulin, Roglic... going to have some fire power too.

I can't help but think that trying to support green and yellow jerseys will be their downfall.

Yeah. I think the best thing would be for them to enter their sprinters only in the flatter classics and in one-week stage races. Then go full GC for the grand tours.
But I suppose this might mean that they don't attract top sprinters.

But imagine them putting all their eggs in one basket and fielding this team in the Tour next year:

Dumoulin
Kruiswijk
Roglic
Bennet
De Plus
Tolhoek
Martin
Van Aert

Does that have the pulling power to overcome a full strength Ineos train? With Froome back as GC guy, the rest of the team will be able to protect him nicely and his capability to attack is superb.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Leffe wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Leffe wrote:
nardol wrote:
Beaver_Shark wrote:
Ineos will be ridiculously strong next year. They will boast four GT winners in their roster (Froome, Thomas, Bernal and Carapaz) and I really think they could win all 3 GT's next year.
And as mentioned earlier, the likeliest team to challenge them would be Jumbo.


Jumbo with Kruiswijk, Dumoulin, Roglic... going to have some fire power too.

I can't help but think that trying to support green and yellow jerseys will be their downfall.

Yeah. I think the best thing would be for them to enter their sprinters only in the flatter classics and in one-week stage races. Then go full GC for the grand tours.
But I suppose this might mean that they don't attract top sprinters.

But imagine them putting all their eggs in one basket and fielding this team in the Tour next year:

Dumoulin
Kruiswijk
Roglic
Bennet
De Plus
Tolhoek
Martin
Van Aert

Does that have the pulling power to overcome a full strength Ineos train? With Froome back as GC guy, the rest of the team will be able to protect him nicely and his capability to attack is superb.


The TT power in that pack is insane.
Good climbers with none being excellent. Priority will always be given in the Tour to a Dutch rider. A lot will depend on the route.

If we are being honest - as a race both the Vuelta AND Giro are better.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:36 pm 
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nardol wrote:

The TT power in that pack is insane.
Good climbers with none being excellent. Priority will always be given in the Tour to a Dutch rider. A lot will depend on the route.

If we are being honest - as a race both the Vuelta AND Giro are better.

I mean day after day if Ineos ride like Sky; on the front, at pace, not just on the TT's. I also wonder what Kruiswikj thinks to Dumulin being the GC guy, being as he just got a podium spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Leffe wrote:
nardol wrote:

The TT power in that pack is insane.
Good climbers with none being excellent. Priority will always be given in the Tour to a Dutch rider. A lot will depend on the route.

If we are being honest - as a race both the Vuelta AND Giro are better.

I mean day after day if Ineos ride like Sky; on the front, at pace, not just on the TT's. I also wonder what Kruiswikj thinks to Dumulin being the GC guy, being as he just got a podium spot.


Kruijswijk is not good enough to win the tour - a podium is his ceiling. He could probably win the Giro (he nearly did) if he switched focus. He's also 33 next year so unlikely to improve

Dumoulin's ceiling is much higher & he's probably capable to win the tour with a strong team


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 Post subject: Re: Tour de France 2019
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Miguel Indurain wrote:
Frog Flair wrote:
I'm devastated.

It's the firt time since i've been following the Tour that i really believed a French could win. :((

The last couple of days turned what was my favourite Tour into the worst one ever.

At this point, it seems like everyone and their mother can win it except the French.

That said, of all the other leaders, I'm glad Bernal won as he is an entertaining rider. He is having a fantastic season and should win more Grand Tours in the future.


Don't despair. I think French cycling is going to make the break through in the next couple of years.

Where's Pierre Rolland these days?



It will be fascinating to see how the TDF planners try to help the French riders for the next few years. They've tried lots of time trails but that favoured the strong men like Wiggins, Thomas, Froome and Dumoulin. They tried loads of climbs but that favoured the Columbians. What next?


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