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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:12 am 
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Despite the fact Saracens may not appeal the case, while claiming they are innocent of intent and at the same time their "Investments" don't actually count against the cap and the facst will show that when they come out, they have hired a PR firm:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ap-scandal


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:07 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:13 am 
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Plastic Sarrie wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


Well someone should tell him. He say's hes invested in it in the Rugby Pod this week


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:15 am 
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Floppykid wrote:
Saint wrote:
Diego wrote:
Didn't Sarries buy his house for him or something?


It's Wigglesworth where it appears that may have happened.


fudge sake.

A lot of this "helping" of players for "after retirement" has to have us assume that adult rugby players have infant faculties and should be treated as such.


I've heard a lot of variations on this comment in the last week (and over time more generally):

'rugby player earnings aren't ones you can retire on' and while I've some sympathy with that, let's not pretend that most of them aren't decently paid and ought to be in a much better financial situation by the time they retire from rugby than the majority of people their age.

Say retirement is 30 - 35, even solid journeymen who've managed to hang around in the top flight all that time will be on high 5 figures if not into the 6 arena by then, right? Dave Flatman has been quite ocal about knowing some very average players are on serious money at times on his pocast, so that may be a conservative estimate.

That's only not enough to buy you a little time and comfort post-rugby while you adjust if you've been spending absolutely all of it as soon as it comes in while playing in which case your club doesn't need to find ways to set up investment companies for you to help you plan for the future, some basic money management skill classes would work wonders.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:17 am 
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Plastic Sarrie wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


Nigel Wray like denial.



We didn't get any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot that delicious plump-breasted pigeon.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:30 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


Nigel Wray like denial.



We didn't get any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot that delicious plump-breasted pigeon.

Well, companies House doesn't list Hamilton as an investor. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:36 pm 
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More skullduggery!

Yeah he openly says he’s a co owner and I believe Wray himself put more money in due to its success?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:38 pm 
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Probably has his shares held via a discretionary trust fund out of the Caymans.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:38 pm 
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I was sat next to Hargreaves and Wyles on the train back after the European Cup Final this year [/glob]


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:44 pm 
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Plastic Sarrie wrote:
fatcat wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


Nigel Wray like denial.



We didn't get any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot that delicious plump-breasted pigeon.

Well, companies House doesn't list Hamilton as an investor. :thumbup:


I'm pretty sure he's piled in with Hargreaves, perhaps not on the brewery but on the bar they opened? As with many businesses they don't know where they stand vis a vis Brexit, so if anyone could let them know they'd likely appreciate that


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:45 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Despite the fact Saracens may not appeal the case, while claiming they are innocent of intent and at the same time their "Investments" don't actually count against the cap and the facst will show that when they come out, they have hired a PR firm:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ap-scandal


Called an Alford plea in the U.S. You accept a guilty verdict while never admitting guilt.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:00 pm 
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piquant wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
fatcat wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


Nigel Wray like denial.



We didn't get any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot that delicious plump-breasted pigeon.

Well, companies House doesn't list Hamilton as an investor. :thumbup:


I'm pretty sure he's piled in with Hargreaves, perhaps not on the brewery but on the bar they opened? As with many businesses they don't know where they stand vis a vis Brexit, so if anyone could let them know they'd likely appreciate that

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 2/officers


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Plastic Sarrie wrote:
fatcat wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Hamilton is part owner of Wolfpack beer.

No he isn't


Nigel Wray like denial.



We didn't get any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot that delicious plump-breasted pigeon.

Well, companies House doesn't list Hamilton as an investor. :thumbup:

Per the company's confirmation statement Hamilton has 11,100 shares - just under 4.4% of voting rights.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:36 pm 
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I was looking at officers :blush: :blush: :lol: :thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Wray bought in another chunk :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:55 pm 
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https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/55081166

If I had a longer lunch break it would be fun to follow.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:06 pm 
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I was looking for that on companies house. Was wondering why I couldn't find it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Bloodgate was on a par because they tried to do it against an Irish team and we're the spiritual guardians of Rugby Football.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:04 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Bloodgate was on a par because they tried to do it against an Irish team and we're the spiritual guardians of Rugby Football.


Ah now, you'd not have given the slightest of fucks if it were any of the other 3 provinces on the receiving end.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:16 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Bloodgate was on a par because they tried to do it against an Irish team and we're the spiritual guardians of Rugby Football.


Ah now, you'd not have given the slightest of fucks if it were any of the other 3 provinces on the receiving end.


Shame Evans didn’t land a winning drop-goal tbh, the Irish would’ve been able to add ‘the bleeding mouth of Williams’ to ‘the hand of Back’ and ‘the hand of Henry’ to the big book of sporting grudges


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:40 pm 
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Joost wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Bloodgate was on a par because they tried to do it against an Irish team and we're the spiritual guardians of Rugby Football.


Ah now, you'd not have given the slightest of fucks if it were any of the other 3 provinces on the receiving end.


Shame Evans didn’t land a winning drop-goal tbh, the Irish would’ve been able to add ‘the bleeding mouth of Williams’ to ‘the hand of Back’ and ‘the hand of Henry’ to the big book of sporting grudges


In contrast to your perfidious land of persistent cheats and liars, we Irish are the consistent lluminating light of honesty, straight forward dealing and decent tarmac driveways.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:25 pm 
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For all their ‘righteous indignation’ that they had done nothing wrong I think Saracens only have until Monday to request review and so far nothing? Arseholes..


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:44 pm 
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Trostan wrote:
Joost wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Bloodgate was on a par because they tried to do it against an Irish team and we're the spiritual guardians of Rugby Football.


Ah now, you'd not have given the slightest of fucks if it were any of the other 3 provinces on the receiving end.


Shame Evans didn’t land a winning drop-goal tbh, the Irish would’ve been able to add ‘the bleeding mouth of Williams’ to ‘the hand of Back’ and ‘the hand of Henry’ to the big book of sporting grudges


In contrast to your perfidious land of persistent cheats and liars, we Irish are the consistent lluminating light of honesty, straight forward dealing and decent tarmac driveways.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:01 pm 
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From someone who writes about rugby and the law: https://twitter.com/rugbyandthelaw/stat ... 85184?s=20

... he says Pt II coming over the weekend.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:15 am 
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Southernscot wrote:
For all their ‘righteous indignation’ that they had done nothing wrong I think Saracens only have until Monday to request review and so far nothing? Arseholes..

It's all about PR really, seems they may have gotten off lightly all things considered.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:02 pm 
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Sarries not going to appeal, review, whatever you want to call it. Purely for playing reasons you understand. They don't want to further disrupt their season

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sara ... -76lfcc0bz


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:04 pm 
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Good, more or less admitting they are cheating twats and accepting the punishments. Also means any more dirt on them won't come out

They won't but I sincerely hope they get relegated, cheating scum


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:00 am 
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How do they handle this year's breach? Presumably they're going to be honouring everyone's contract and the various benefits in kind, which I'd guess would leave them in the same boat for this season?

Do PRL grant them a grace period to dump players?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:21 am 
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Red Revolution wrote:
How do they handle this year's breach? Presumably they're going to be honouring everyone's contract and the various benefits in kind, which I'd guess would leave them in the same boat for this season?

Do PRL grant them a grace period to dump players?

Expect a drop in house prices around st albans


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:22 am 
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Red Revolution wrote:
How do they handle this year's breach? Presumably they're going to be honouring everyone's contract and the various benefits in kind, which I'd guess would leave them in the same boat for this season?

Do PRL grant them a grace period to dump players?

I guess there's no breach until the sums are done at the end of the season.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:35 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Sarries not going to appeal, review, whatever you want to call it. Purely for playing reasons you understand. They don't want to further disrupt their season

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sara ... -76lfcc0bz



That article reads like a posting from the Saracens. Website rather than a piece of independent journalism


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:36 am 
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Southernscot wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Sarries not going to appeal, review, whatever you want to call it. Purely for playing reasons you understand. They don't want to further disrupt their season

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sara ... -76lfcc0bz



That article reads like a posting from the Saracens. Website rather than a piece of independent journalism


You missed the post explaining how Sarries had recruited a PR firm to deal with this mess?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:23 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Sarries not going to appeal, review, whatever you want to call it. Purely for playing reasons you understand. They don't want to further disrupt their season

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sara ... -76lfcc0bz

Quote:
Saracens realised that for planning purposes Mark McCall, the director of rugby, would need certainty. If he found with two-thirds of the season gone that Saracens were exonerated, then he may already have wasted opportunities to field strong sides; if he had fielded strong teams before the decision then he might have had no key players with availability left for the run-in had the appeal gone against them.

Am I missing something or is that complete nonsense?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:39 am 
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paddyor wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Sarries not going to appeal, review, whatever you want to call it. Purely for playing reasons you understand. They don't want to further disrupt their season

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sara ... -76lfcc0bz

Quote:
Saracens realised that for planning purposes Mark McCall, the director of rugby, would need certainty. If he found with two-thirds of the season gone that Saracens were exonerated, then he may already have wasted opportunities to field strong sides; if he had fielded strong teams before the decision then he might have had no key players with availability left for the run-in had the appeal gone against them.

Am I missing something or is that complete nonsense?


Of course it's complete nonsense. But it's released to the press as an exclusive, so it will be accepted without question.

It's straight out of the Donald Trump book of PR


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:03 am 
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Saint wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Sarries not going to appeal, review, whatever you want to call it. Purely for playing reasons you understand. They don't want to further disrupt their season

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sara ... -76lfcc0bz

Quote:
Saracens realised that for planning purposes Mark McCall, the director of rugby, would need certainty. If he found with two-thirds of the season gone that Saracens were exonerated, then he may already have wasted opportunities to field strong sides; if he had fielded strong teams before the decision then he might have had no key players with availability left for the run-in had the appeal gone against them.

Am I missing something or is that complete nonsense?


Of course it's complete nonsense. But it's released to the press as an exclusive, so it will be accepted without question.

It's straight out of the Donald Trump book of PR

It might be PR spin but I don't think it's nonsense. McCall is saying he can't properly plan a season long campaign if he doesn't know if they are going to be sanctioned or not. By accepting the points deduction he now knows he's got to prioritise the league instead of trying to fight on two fronts. So he's not going to burn any matches trying to secure a QF place in the ECC.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:43 am 
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Yes, and if he appeal had gone ahead they'd have prioritized the league anyway......


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:07 am 
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paddyor wrote:
Yes, and if he appeal had gone ahead they'd have prioritized the league anyway......

But it's fair to say there would be uncertainty and maybe he'd weight his decisions differently. I think it's reasonable for him to prefer to know exactly where the club stands.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:58 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Good, more or less admitting they are cheating twats and accepting the punishments. Also means any more dirt on them won't come out

They won't but I sincerely hope they get relegated, cheating scum


For all the talk about the recent seasons were a 35 point deduction would not have seen them relegated, this still gives a lifeline to the struggling clubs early in the season. I know they should be scrapping equally as hard for every single point whether or not another team is in a bad situation but I can't help feeling that they will scrap a little harder knowing that survival is slightly more likely. Also, I suspect every other team that meets them will try a little harder to inflict punishment. Preventing them a TSB will be a lot more meaningful this season than in previous ones for example. Again, it shouldn't be the case but human nature is what it is.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 am 
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MrJonno wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Good, more or less admitting they are cheating twats and accepting the punishments. Also means any more dirt on them won't come out

They won't but I sincerely hope they get relegated, cheating scum


For all the talk about the recent seasons were a 35 point deduction would not have seen them relegated, this still gives a lifeline to the struggling clubs early in the season. I know they should be scrapping equally as hard for every single point whether or not another team is in a bad situation but I can't help feeling that they will scrap a little harder knowing that survival is slightly more likely. Also, I suspect every other team that meets them will try a little harder to inflict punishment. Preventing them a TSB will be a lot more meaningful this season than in previous ones for example. Again, it shouldn't be the case but human nature is what it is.


On the other hand, a top team will not see them as competition for the play-offs - so losing to them won't hurt as much and they could save their best teams for match ups that count for more.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:16 am 
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ovalball wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Good, more or less admitting they are cheating twats and accepting the punishments. Also means any more dirt on them won't come out

They won't but I sincerely hope they get relegated, cheating scum


For all the talk about the recent seasons were a 35 point deduction would not have seen them relegated, this still gives a lifeline to the struggling clubs early in the season. I know they should be scrapping equally as hard for every single point whether or not another team is in a bad situation but I can't help feeling that they will scrap a little harder knowing that survival is slightly more likely. Also, I suspect every other team that meets them will try a little harder to inflict punishment. Preventing them a TSB will be a lot more meaningful this season than in previous ones for example. Again, it shouldn't be the case but human nature is what it is.


On the other hand, a top team will not see them as competition for the play-offs - so losing to them won't hurt as much and they could save their best teams for match ups that count for more.


Although it is also better for the top teams for the couple of years if they get relegated


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