B.Smith is a walk-up start for any team in world rugby, including the ABs. All-time great player.

If you think it would have made a blind bit of difference ...

The real mistake I believe ( rather than selections ) was the concentration on the Irish game , because they had finally managed to beat us a couple of times , I believe inspite of some evidence they were now a busted flush a huge amount of psychological capital was expended in giving them a thrashing .

Getting up again to peak performance so soon was always improbable in hindsight , England should have been the focus .

Aye, that series was a real missed opportunity for the All Blacks. Kiwi ill-discipline really cost them the series win.

Steve Hansen subbing on Laumape after the red card to retain 7 backs and dropping to 7 forwards was a very interesting call that is often forgotten. Surprised no one has mentioned it, it was a worse decision than ScoBarr to 6 imo.

And people forget how close we came to losing in the 2011 final (the width of the posts really) even considering the problems at #10

Average? It was surely a step away from 2015, but it is still among one of the most effective and winning All Black teams in history.

Yeah I think people oversell how bad post 2015 was. 2015 was exceptional after all.

We lost.

Yes the red card was the series decider as you say. Has someone hacked JM’s account?

More than rotation I think it was the reconditioning program that undid our 2007 campaign. The AB's were in great shape to win a world rugby pose down on the French Riviera against the rest of the world rugby teams but they weren't rugby match fit. Missing half the Super Rugby season f**ked the AB's. Ted has admitted this.

Stay on the path, don't get involved, stay on the path ...

Sadly I think this is what my summer is going to look like:

The Lions series 'loss', the two Irish losses, and the semi final bum shellacking are all I can remember.

*Life as an All Blacks fan.

Re: 2007

For all the blah blah blah about conditioning and rotation, all they had to do to win that match is drop a goal in the last five minutes. They pretty much controlled territory and possession for most of the game. The biggest failure was no plan B should plan A stuff up. Apparently a dropped goal had never ever entered their minds until literally the final minute when McAlister had to do a shitty one from 40m out. Unlike this year's semi-final exit, the ABs should still have won that 07 match. The French had only turned up to park the bus and tackle all day.

If I recall correctly, McAlister only did it because he heard advantage called, which was for a knock on and you don’t get to go back to the scrum if you drop goal in that situation. So he shat the bed a bit there.

Keith was the best lock in that squad.

He was a player who would have been an All Black great if not for injuries.

Exactly. Some of the dumbest rugby I've seen. After 3000 pick and goes, going nowhere, with a backline freezing to death outside the pack, what did they do?

Another 3000 pick and goes.

Yeah Naki pointed this out. I think my recollection is a bit off, his lack of games (in retrospect) probably convinced me he was never first choice.

Even though I was disagreeing with you early on it's a bit bollocks to suggest he was the best lock in that squad. Ali Williams was our best lock and he nabbed a lot of French lineout ball in that match (that they failed to capitalise on).

The game wasn't played to the rules of rugby as typically understood at the time.

If it was it is likely the All Blacks would have won comfortably considering they broke all sorts of records for phases in possession.

In a typical game their industry would have netted them a fair number of penalties.

That may be right, but they should have set for a drop goal much earlier than that - that was a team leadership failure.

That Shag could maintain a very high winning ratio despite losing the players he lost speaks highly of his coaching.

Sorry but the Scott Barrett/Sam Cane selection was a howler.

Scott Barret had never started in that position. Playing there late in the game when the opposition is tired, other subs are on and the structure has loosened is much different to the start when everyone is fresh and executing the tactics they have trained all week exactly.

But it affected not only only the 6 position itself. It effected Ardie Savea who had not played 7 all season and had to change his game . It affected Read who had to play a different game but we also didn't have Barret coming off the bench which was a big part of our game as well.

We may have still lost if Cane had of started with Barret on the bench but the game would have unfolded in a completely different way and IMO we would have had a better chance.

Cane played the 2nd half and he made no difference.

Cane isn't a bench impact player, hes best used in the starting lineup ... that was another reason that selection was so poor (in saying that he was the 6th highest tackler for the ABs in his 40 mins).

And at any rate,as I've already explained, the selection had a wider impact than just Barrett as a player instead of Cane.

I don't see this as being relevant. We would have lost against the French in 99 with Cullen at fullback but it was still a shocker of a call.

An individual selection can still be horrendous without affecting the result.

I think horrendous is overselling it a tad.

It does also highlight one of the things that had set earlier shag teams apart and that was missing. Previously the bench were an absolute weapon. By the world cup there were some good players but no one you would think who could have a massive impact.

I'm not calling that specific selection horrendous - I'm making a wider point.

Point taken, though I think some are still putting far too much on this selection.

This is right. Too much brain power went into the Irish, who should have been grubbered away with an 8 or 9 point win. Instead we went to town on them.

(which was fun, as they clearly needed to be taught a lesson, but it was all tactics no strategy)

That's a bit like saying Williamson or Root still batted at 11 and it didn't make any difference to the total. Or Boult or Starc may not have had the new ball but still bowled first change so it wouldn't make any difference to the amount of wickets taken.

Fact is Sam Cane is the All Black who hurts the opposition in the tackle Pretty much the only one after Owen Franks was (foolishly as it turns out) discarded. Most of the other All Black forwards have adapted their game around him being there smashing people when that suddenly wasn't happening in that crucial opening 15 minutes it would have had a huge impact physically and mentally to both sides. Maybe not the winning or losing of the game but to underplay it is dangerous and worrying suugesting similar poor All Black selections before WC knockout games are on the cards in the future.

Tubbyj is bang on the money in this thread. Well done, sir.

Hansen selected Kaino at lock and cost us a first loss to Ireland.

He persevered with the BB / DMac axis of instability for over two wasted years.

He selected Jordie Barrett.

He was Ted’s assistant.

He still is.

Whoa! Harsh indeed!

Another thing that is forgotten is that Tri nations in 2009 when Hansen was the forwards coach and selected Isaac Ross at lock from virtually nowhere and then put him in charge of calling the lineouts. He then threw him under the bus when things went wrong. After that tri nations there was a 'reshuffle' in roles before the EOYT and Ted took back over coaching the forwards.

Of head coaches in my time following rugby since the early 80s I would rank him third behind Graham Henry and Brian Lochore but just ahead of Laurie Mains and far ahead of the rest.

As far as assistants go he is second behind Wayne Smith but better than everyone else.

Barrett was a howler.

Leaving Crotty out was criminal negligence

Not selecting Ben Smith - with all that RWC experience - on the bench was a mistake too.

Instead he goes with Jordie Fvcking Barrett. Who, to no one's surprise, shat the bed. Again.

Ben Smith wouldn’t have made a difference.