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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:36 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
The question is who's leaking like a sieve and why ?

The emergency IBRC legislation is as a result of the leaks.

Is it Dukes?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
The question is who's leaking like a sieve and why ?

The emergency IBRC legislation is as a result of the leaks.

Is it Dukes?

ERC, or Euro finance ministers I reckon.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:08 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
The question is who's leaking like a sieve and why ?

The emergency IBRC legislation is as a result of the leaks.

Is it Dukes?

No. The leaks are coming from Europe and they caused the delay with the legislation coming to the Dail. I am not particularly optimistic that this rushed process signals a good deal for us. After the bank guarantee vote, I'm allergic to this sort of thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:10 am 
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Not sure if posted by here is the bill
http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com ... -final.pdf


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:26 am 
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If FF had any balls and sense of duty to the electorate, they'd refuse to participate unless given a proper length of time to digest the bill but then they might have to vote in favour of it and wouldn't have the "we were rushed" excuse. Now they take 30 mins to skim it and vote no so their asses are covered.

The shinners would vote against it anyway even if it was a good deal.

Suppose it's too much to hope government TD's would go against the party whip? If enough of them do it, they cannot be punished.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:27 am 
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Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:33 am 
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redrebel wrote:
Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.

We need to ensure that whoever leaked is f**ked over.

It surely is a criminal offence ?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:37 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.

We need to ensure that whoever leaked is f**ked over.

It surely is a criminal offence ?

Came outta Franfurt...Zee Germans again


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:40 am 
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redrebel wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.

We need to ensure that whoever leaked is f**ked over.

It surely is a criminal offence ?

Came outta Franfurt...Zee Germans again

If that is the case, I hope Noonan goes in steaming and makes a show.

That sort of briefing really is against everything the EU stands for.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:46 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.

We need to ensure that whoever leaked is f**ked over.

It surely is a criminal offence ?

Came outta Franfurt...Zee Germans again

If that is the case, I hope Noonan goes in steaming and makes a show.

That sort of briefing really is against everything the EU stands for.

Its the 3rd or 4th time that leaks have emerged from Germany concerning irish economy.Its a farce


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:17 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.

We need to ensure that whoever leaked is f**ked over.

It surely is a criminal offence ?

Came outta Franfurt...Zee Germans again

If that is the case, I hope Noonan goes in steaming and makes a show.

That sort of briefing really is against everything the EU stands for.

Big guys fudge the small guys over. As ever was, as ever will be.
It's okay though. We'll aim big and sink the f**king euro in revenge.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:19 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
redrebel wrote:
Vinny Brown the only show in town..Has to be passed before the markets open cos someone in Frankfurt leaked the news of the IRBC liquidisation..If it isnt then the bondholders still in the IRBC (12-14billion worth) will have a chance of pulling their cash out.

We need to ensure that whoever leaked is f**ked over.

It surely is a criminal offence ?

Came outta Franfurt...Zee Germans again

If that is the case, I hope Noonan goes in steaming and makes a show.

That sort of briefing really is against everything the EU stands for.

Big guys fudge the small guys over. As ever was, as ever will be.
It's okay though. We'll aim big and sink the f**king euro in revenge.

Nah, the EU is legalistic by its nature.

This sort of leaking should be followed up.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:25 am 
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A so-called developed Western country welching on debts

Absolutely shameful

:thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:33 am 
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MrDominator wrote:
A so-called developed Western country welching on debts

Absolutely shameful

:thumbdown:

The only debts we'll be welching on are the ones owed to the UK. We're just rearranging payment terms with our EU partners here.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:46 am 
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Anyone else watching the dail debate?
Drunken idiots deciding the future of this country.

Embarrassing fiasco.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:54 am 
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Quote:
If FF had any balls and sense of duty to the electorate


Are you serious? The shower of plum shouldn't even be quoted on this issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:03 am 
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Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
Quote:
If FF had any balls and sense of duty to the electorate


Are you serious? The shower of plum shouldn't even be quoted on this issue.

Just seeing if I could guilt trip Piaras a bit.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:08 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
Quote:
If FF had any balls and sense of duty to the electorate


Are you serious? The shower of plum shouldn't even be quoted on this issue.

Just seeing if I could guilt trip Piaras a bit.


I wonder where Mullet is right now, besides CP?

Very recent quote from Enda Kenny

Quote:
Enda Kenny said the disappearance of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide from the Irish financial landscape was "long overdue".

He said they have become emblems of cronyism in the country and "a dent in our national pride".


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:31 am 
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Mullet posted saying he was in the Dail earlier but what I want to know is...where is TSG? :nod:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:23 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Mullet posted saying he was in the Dail earlier but what I want to know is...where is TSG? :nod:


Oh I am here Fester, laughing my hole off at the keystone cop handling of this by headmaster Noonan and Co. Shambles.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:37 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
Quote:
If FF had any balls and sense of duty to the electorate


Are you serious? The shower of plum shouldn't even be quoted on this issue.

Just seeing if I could guilt trip Piaras a bit.


Ha ha cheers UF. Actually thought McGrath played it quite well saying we will take it in good faith but we need reassurances on this, this and this. Knowing full well they were not going to get any of them. Anyway lets hope we get some sort of deal from the ECB today even if it is only the transfer of the promissory notes to longer term bonds at lower interest rates.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:56 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Mullet posted saying he was in the Dail earlier but what I want to know is...where is TSG? :nod:


Oh I am here Fester, laughing my hole off at the keystone cop handling of this by headmaster Noonan and Co. Shambles.

What would you have done in the circumstances?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:00 am 
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ECB are wankers, that is all.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:05 am 
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Gavin Duffy wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Mullet posted saying he was in the Dail earlier but what I want to know is...where is TSG? :nod:


Oh I am here Fester, laughing my hole off at the keystone cop handling of this by headmaster Noonan and Co. Shambles.

What would you have done in the circumstances?


With respect.....Who gives a fudge what I would have done. I am not MOF.... They have now gone off half cocked and the 133 or so muppets that voted for this emergency bill have no f**king idea what they have voted on !! As I said, shambles.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:39 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
Gavin Duffy wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Mullet posted saying he was in the Dail earlier but what I want to know is...where is TSG? :nod:


Oh I am here Fester, laughing my hole off at the keystone cop handling of this by headmaster Noonan and Co. Shambles.

What would you have done in the circumstances?


With respect.....Who gives a fudge what I would have done. I am not MOF.... They have now gone off half cocked and the 133 or so muppets that voted for this emergency bill have no f**king idea what they have voted on !! As I said, shambles.


Given their experience it's best that the Fail remain uninformed on this.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:56 am 
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Was the David Hall legal action on prom notes the reason for the panic?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Location: We'll Never Forget You Geordan D'Arcy
It's at times like these that I'm especially glad we are lead by the best schoolteachers on extended leaves of absence that can be found. We're in safe hands, everyone calm down. Open a window down the back there, don't panic. Line up here beside the door. One in, one out. There we go. No running in the hall there Deputy.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:22 pm 
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If anybody is interested (yes Cammy, I mean you), the Allsops lots are online.
They pulled the catalogue listing but the lots themselves are still online.
Start with the first one and keep hitting next until you find the gilt-edged opportunity you are looking for.
http://www.auction.co.uk/irish/LotDetai ... Q=&S=L&O=A


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Was the David Hall legal action on prom notes the reason for the panic?


Nope fact it was leaked could have led to certain bondholders in Anglo trying to enforce their security on the assets ahead of the government, or at least that is what we are being told was the reason for it.

To be honest doubt the Supreme court is going to rule any differently to the High Court on the case anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Deal done according to Reuters.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Draghi keeping his mouth shut in relation to Anglo..... it's a pity his officials couldn't.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Average 35 yr maturities according to RTE.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:14 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Average 35 yr maturities according to RTE.


Ailish O'Hara on the indo mentioning rate of 0.75% which would be pretty good. Not sure how reliable that is though.

http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 54859.html


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:15 pm 
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I wish Vinny was at this press conference.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Emily wrote:
I wish Vinny was at this press conference.


It would have been a case of " Sir, step away from the microphone"


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:28 pm 
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UPDATE 3-ECB, Ireland reach bank debt deal -source - RTRS
07-Feb-2013 12:30

* Deal reached, source tells Reuters; no details yet
* ECB chief Draghi expected to comment at 1330 GMT
* Dublin eager for a deal after 18-month negotiation
* Plan should lengthen state's debt repayment terms
* Govt will likely face calls to ease up on austerity

(Adds source saying deal reached)
By Padraic Halpin and Carmel Crimmins
DUBLIN/FRANKFURT, Feb 7 (Reuters) - The European Central
Bank agreed a deal on Thursday to ease Ireland's debt burden in
a major boost to Dublin's hopes of emerging from an
international bailout programme, a source involved in the talks
told Reuters.
Prime Minister Enda Kenny has staked his administration's
reputation on cutting the cost of bailing out Anglo Irish Bank,
now known as Irish Bank Resolution Corp, or IBRC, and the ECB's
governing council in Frankfurt was considering a fresh proposal
after rejecting a previous plan last month.
"A deal is done," the source said, while declining to give
details. ECB President Mario Draghi was due to comment on the
deal during a news conference in Frankfurt at 1330 GMT.
The agreement comes a day after Dublin rushed through
emergency laws to liquidate Anglo Irish. In the broader plan,
the government was hoping to be allowed to pay off the debts of
state-owned Anglo over a longer period, easing public finances.
That means it would avoid having to pay a politically toxic
3.1 billion euros a year until 2023 to service the note it
issued to underwrite failed Anglo during a meltdown of the main
Irish lenders after a real estate bubble burst in 2008.
"This closes a sad and tragic chapter in our economic
history," Kenny told a special session of Ireland's lower
parliamentary house that stretched until 3 a.m as lawmakers
rushed through the winding up of the failed bank.
Anglo Irish was brought down by a real estate crash after a
bubble inflated by cheap credit. Fearful of knock-on effects,
the Irish state stepped in, landing itself with a huge debts
that forced it into austerity budgets as the economy shrank and
obliged it to accept a conditional bailout from the EU and IMF.
Technical negotiations between the ECB and Irish officials
have dragged on for 18 months, with the central bank conscious
that any deal given to Dublin to ease the crunch in debt
repayments could set a precedent for other countries, such as
Spain, which are also dealing with large bank debts.
However, European leaders also needed a success story to
emerge from the region's debt crisis. A rescheduling of the
promissory notes given by Ireland to IBRC will help Dublin
emerge on schedule this year from its EU-IMF bailout programme.
Ireland would issue longer-terms bonds in place of the notes.
Under Dublin's new plan, first reported by Reuters on
Wednesday, IBRC's liquidation was necessary so that the Irish
government no longer had to make a politically toxic 3.1 billion
euros of annual payments on the promissory notes stretching out
until 2023. The next such payment was due next month.
The government had originally hoped to unveil the
liquidation of the former Anglo Irish in conjunction with a deal
from the ECB, but the Reuters report obliged ministers to
immediately legislate for the bank's demise.
Finance Minister Michael Noonan told parliament the
government could not deny the report and therefore risked
destabilising the bank's position.
"I would have preferred to be introducing this bill in
tandem with a finalised agreement with the European Central
Bank," Noonan said. "But we had to move."

LESS AUSTERITY?
Under the plan put to the ECB, the 28 billion euros in
promissory notes will be replaced with long-term government
bonds, meaning that Ireland can make more gradual repayments, a
source familiar with the discussions told Reuters.
The ECB had rejected a preferred solution two weeks ago when
Dublin wanted the Irish central bank to hold a long-term bond
for a minimum of 15 years, a proposal Frankfurt deemed to be
"monetary financing", prohibited by EU law intended to prevent
governments in the euro zone destabilising the currency.
The 15-year clause is now being dropped, a second source
said. Once the ECB signs off on the plan, most of IBRC's balance
sheet will pass to Ireland's central bank after the scandal-hit
bank is liquidated, another source said.
Rescheduling the payments will mean Ireland's debt agency,
which began to pave the way towards its emergence from bailout
strictures last year by re-entering long-term debt markets, will
have to raise less cash in each of the next 10 years.
Avoiding the hefty interest charge that kicks in with this
year's payment on the notes would also reduce the budget
deficit, still among the highest in Europe, by more than one
percentage point, according to Finance Department estimates.
While some interest charge will still likely be paid, the
deficit that currently stands at just below 8 percent of annual
output will be cut to some degree and may lead to public demands
for the government to ease up on its austerity programme.
"The critical aspect is whether there's some scope for a
little less austerity and managing that will be a significant
issue," said KCB Ireland economist Austin Hughes, referring to a
further 3.1 billion euros of tax hikes and spending cuts Dublin
has pledged to implement later this year.
"My sense would be that our partners would want this to be
regarded as a windfall gain that should be ferreted away but
politically there will be pressure for a somewhat less austere
budget in December," he said of other euro zone states.
Irish bond yields were broadly unchanged. And with a deal on
Anglo Irish already priced in by many investors, traders said
there would not be a big jump if the ECB gives the thumbs up. It
would, however, support yields as Dublin returns to the market
again in the coming weeks.

CASINO-STYLE
In the early hours of Thursday, opposition lawmakers,
angered at the short time they had to digest the highly
technical, 58-page bill, complained that they did not yet know
what, if anything, would be agreed with the ECB.
On Twitter, people dubbed the session #promnight, a play on
the promissory notes whose cost has made them infamous among the
general public. Kenny's large majority prevailed and the lower
chamber voted in favour of the bill by 113 votes to 36.
President Michael D. Higgins signed the bill into law at
around 7 a.m. (0700 GMT) following the all-night sitting of both
houses. He cut short a state trip to Rome to do so.
Anglo Irish and its profligate lending policies were at the
heart of Ireland's financial crisis. The bank's near-collapse in
2008 pressured the government into guaranteeing the entire
financial sector, sucking it into a downward spiral and in late
2010, a 67.5-billion euro loan from the EU and IMF.
Three of the bank's former executives, including its former
CEO, will go on trial next year on fraud charges.
Anglo Irish's assets, of between 12 billion and 14 billion
euros, will be transferred to the state-run bad bank, the
National Asset Management Agency, or NAMA, which will pay for
them by issuing its own state-backed bonds, a source familiar
with the situation said.
Accountancy firm KPMG was appointed as liquidator. However
the IBRC board was only informed about the liquidation plan on
Wednesday, according to sources familiar with the matter, while
remaining staff members were told via email.
IBRC, which was due to be gradually wound down by 2020,
employs about 775 people. Their contracts were terminated, as is
usual in a liquidation, but Noonan said he expected KPMG would
rehire most of them to help wind down the bank.

(Additional reporting by Stephen Mangan in Dublin and Laura
Noonan in London; Editing by Peter Cooney, John Stonestreet and
Alastair Macdonald)
((carmel.crimmins@thomsonreuters.com)(+353 1 500 1529)(Reuters
Messaging: carmel.crimmins.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net))

Keywords: IRELAND ECB/

nL5N0B73MS

(C) Thomson Reuters 2013. All rights reserved.The Thomson Reuters content received through this service is the intellectual property of Thomson Reuters or its third party suppliers. Republication or redistribution of content provided by Thomson Reuters is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Reuters, except where permitted by the terms of the relevant Thomson Reuters service agreement. Neither Thomson Reuters nor its third party suppliers shall be liable for any errors, omissions or delays in content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. Thomson Reuters and its logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of the Thomson Reuters group of companies around the world.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Dublin news conference due at 15.00 GMT


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Any money freed up should be spent on some of the large 'ready to go' infrastructural projects, eg Metro North, Luas underground etc.

It would be the quickest way to lessen unemployment.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:09 pm 
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News conference now at 4pm.

Quote:
Minister for Finance Michael Noonan and Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin are giving a joint news conference at 4pm. Watch live on RTÉ.ie/news and RTÉ News Now


EDIT Which of course, is 15hr00 GMT. DOH!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Irish debt deal will cut borrowing needs by 20 bln eur-Kenny - RTRS
07-Feb-2013 15:10

DUBLIN, Feb 7 (Reuters) - Ireland's bank debt deal with the
European Central Bank will reduce its borrowing needs by 20
billion euros over the next decade and cut its fiscal deficit by
some 1 billion euros per annum, the country's prime minister
said on Thursday.
Enda Kenny told parliament that Ireland would now make its
first principle payment on the debt issued to prop up the failed
Anglo Irish Bank in 2038, and the last in 2058, representing an
average maturity of over 34 years.
"Today’s outcome is an historic step on the road to economic
recovery," Kenny said after his government won ECB approval to
switch onerous IOUs put into Anglo with long-term sovereign
Irish bonds.
"The new plan will likely materially improve perceptions of
our debt sustainability in the eyes of potential investors in
Ireland, leading to lower interest rates and faster growth than
would otherwise be the case."
"A successful Irish exit from the bail-out by the end of
this year would prove that a combination of intensive national
reform efforts and European solidarity can deliver results."

(Reporting by Padraic Halpin; Editing by Carmel Crimmins)
((padraic.halpin@thomsonreuters.com)(+353 1 500 1529)(Reuters
Messaging: padraic.halpin.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net))


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