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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:25 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Kearney has already stated that he's been directed to run straight up field and create a target for the pack.

It'd have been interesting to see what would have happened with Payne fit.

The issue with Kearney is that those who don't like him only focus on what he does poorly. There's literally no way for him to offset any errors in their eyes. He could score a hat-trick, beating 10 defenders per try and it'd make no difference.

Joe would have picked him at 13.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:30 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Kearney has already stated that he's been directed to run straight up field and create a target for the pack.

It'd have been interesting to see what would have happened with Payne fit.

The issue with Kearney is that those who don't like him only focus on what he does poorly. There's literally no way for him to offset any errors in their eyes. He could score a hat-trick, beating 10 defenders per try and it'd make no difference.



When we had Henshaw and Payne in the centres and Rob at fullback we became very direct and offered fairly little variation, he was a target for a lot of the abuse about poor play which was down to a system/philosophy rather than his limitations. I still think we have options that offer more but have long stopped getting annoyed about it, Joe has delivered plenty and we'll just have to accept the game played as he sees fit. It's interesting to note how many former/recent pros praise him compared to the vitriol against him on social media, what a guy brings to the table is valued differently by those who've played with him on the pitch compared to the armchair pundits.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:31 pm 
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I see there's a thread on this but in case any of us missed it:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/021 ... land-loss/

Lapandry, Iturria, Belleau, Lambey, Danty, Lamerat, Picamoles and Teddy Thomas all dropped for the next match.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:35 pm 
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ruckinhell wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Kearney has already stated that he's been directed to run straight up field and create a target for the pack.

It'd have been interesting to see what would have happened with Payne fit.

The issue with Kearney is that those who don't like him only focus on what he does poorly. There's literally no way for him to offset any errors in their eyes. He could score a hat-trick, beating 10 defenders per try and it'd make no difference.



When we had Henshaw and Payne in the centres and Rob at fullback we became very direct and offered fairly little variation, he was a target for a lot of the abuse about poor play which was down to a system/philosophy rather than his limitations. I still think we have options that offer more but have long stopped getting annoyed about it, Joe has delivered plenty and we'll just have to accept the game played as he sees fit. It's interesting to note how many former/recent pros praise him compared to the vitriol against him on social media, what a guy brings to the table is valued differently by those who've played with him on the pitch compared to the armchair pundits.


I think one of the more important points from Kinsella's article is the direction he gives Stockdale. Payne would do the same but no one else.

Kearney is universally praised for his leadership.

I too would like more from the FB position but I think people are going OTT with the criticism.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
nardol wrote:
Captain Scarlet wrote:
I think Ireland will probably beat Wales and Scotland and it'll come down to the final game in Twickers.

I see Schmidt's loyalty to Rob Kearney as a potential achilles heel though. He offers little in attack, and just can't/won't tackle.


If kearney plays he needs to stop running the ball.

He never bounces another player and the number of turnovers he concedes running from the back.

He has a big boot. USE IT.
I like Kearney for the solid reception of the high ball he offers.


Which he then turns over too often by running into the biggest opposition players he can find, as you mentioned above. I cannot imagine any other player's glaringly obvious limitations being tolerated to this extent. If he doesn't completely shit the bed, and then smear the shite across Joe's face, all his mistakes are ignored, and he's eulogised for catching an occasional ball. Its fcuking insanity. :shock:

Ah Lenny. This is fiction that Cammy would be proud of.
Kearney does plenty of stuff that would make you tear your hair out, but you don't need to invent more.

He's a poor individual tackler, he runs the ball back into traffic and gets tackled, he rarely ever looks to release another player after taking a deep kick; but he isn't actually turned over all that much. Sure, it's slow ball, but it's still ours.

I'd obviously prefer him to look to play a bit more.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Interesting that some people are now worried about the amount of turnovers a fullback concedes.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:40 pm 
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There have been a few examples this season of Kearney being turned over. And this is a prime example of what I said above. The fact that it's only 3 or 4 turnovers in hundreds of carries is immaterial because the negative actions are all that's relevant when it comes to some.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Why weren't the French lads allowed out for a few beers after the Scotland match :?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:42 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
There have been a few examples this season of Kearney being turned over. And this is a prime example of what I said above. The fact that it's only 3 or 4 turnovers in hundreds of carries is immaterial because the negative actions are all that's relevant when it comes to some.


I was referring to conversation before the tournament, where certain posters thought that the amount of turnovers conceded by other full back options was not seen as a good enough reason not to pick that option.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:43 pm 
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ZappaMan wrote:
Why weren't the French lads allowed out for a few beers after the Scotland match :?


The were, just not allowed to fight the Scottish fans at the same time.
PC gone mad eh.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:44 pm 
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SASP wrote:
ZappaMan wrote:
Why weren't the French lads allowed out for a few beers after the Scotland match :?


The were, just not allowed to fight the Scottish fans at the same time.
PC gone mad eh.

I forgive them :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
tiddle wrote:
Diego wrote:
SASP wrote:
The old man can still catch

Image

Should have marked it tbf. #percentages


turned out to be a good counterattacking opportunity for Ireland tbf


Thought both the catch and kick were excellent. If he'd marked it it probably would have resulted in an Argie lineout somewhere between our 22 and 10m line. The kick turned desperate defence into attack in an instant. I'd far prefer to see him do this tbh, especially now we have real pace in our backline.


And from the same game.

Quote:
The thing is that if he played like that more often than once in a blue moon then none of us would ever say nasty things about him. His performance wasn’t flawless - running away from Stockdale after making an excellent break, poor kick that was blocked down - but he looked far better in attack, and was far more involved further up the pitch. He also made his tackles, and overall looked like he was responding very positively to the pressure coming from Conway, Carbery et al.


As you can see, I have no problem giving credit when he plays well, but I don't think he does it often enough to warrant the untouchable status he has with some on here. At this point I'm not sure what he does on a consistent basis in attack or defence, other than catching and talking apparently, that is of international full back standard.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:49 pm 
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He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:51 pm 
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SASP wrote:
He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.

Exactly now lets finish the Kearney Bashing otherwise the Usual suspects wont have enough time to waste 20 pages slagging off Toner.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:56 pm 
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ruckinhell wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Kearney has already stated that he's been directed to run straight up field and create a target for the pack.

It'd have been interesting to see what would have happened with Payne fit.

The issue with Kearney is that those who don't like him only focus on what he does poorly. There's literally no way for him to offset any errors in their eyes. He could score a hat-trick, beating 10 defenders per try and it'd make no difference.



When we had Henshaw and Payne in the centres and Rob at fullback we became very direct and offered fairly little variation, he was a target for a lot of the abuse about poor play which was down to a system/philosophy rather than his limitations. I still think we have options that offer more but have long stopped getting annoyed about it, Joe has delivered plenty and we'll just have to accept the game played as he sees fit. It's interesting to note how many former/recent pros praise him compared to the vitriol against him on social media, what a guy brings to the table is valued differently by those who've played with him on the pitch compared to the armchair pundits.


If only CJ was judged by the same standard, 2 tries in the first half came from lovely hands from Conan. Murray would not have scored that try if CJ had got the ball. Also the Earls try comes from a quick pass from Conan after Leavy turned it over. CJ did his usual bosh stuff second half, imagine we had a ball playing number 8.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:00 pm 
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SASP wrote:
He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.


Why is he the only option? Is Larmour now persona non grata because of his defensive error against Italy, and was it any worse than Kearney's fcuk up against France the week before, or the two horrible attempts against the ABs in Chicago that cost us two tries? The difference between the two of them is that Larmour will probably learn from his mistake at this stage, and is light years ahead of Kearney in all aspects of attack. Conway, who was excellent in the Autumn, wasn't going to be selected if fit against France, so its not lack of options that's keeping Kearney in the side


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:03 pm 
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SASP wrote:
He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.


Top 3 teams in the NH don't exactly have creative fullbacks, Mike brown doesn't offer much in attack these days yet still gets picked. I reckon if Leigh halfpenny had started for wales they would have won- both England tries came from players not being able to catch high balls. Wouldn't mind seeing Conway get a run at Fullback when he gets fit again but he also misses tackles.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:05 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Kearney has already stated that he's been directed to run straight up field and create a target for the pack


I think Joe needs to tell Rob that he didn't mean the oppo pack....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
SASP wrote:
He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.


Why is he the only option? Is Larmour now persona non grata because of his defensive error against Italy, and was it any worse than Kearney's fcuk up against France the week before, or the two horrible attempts against the ABs in Chicago that cost us two tries? The difference between the two of them is that Larmour will probably learn from his mistake at this stage, and is light years ahead of Kearney in all aspects of attack. Conway, who was excellent in the Autumn, wasn't going to be selected if fit against France, so its not lack of options that's keeping Kearney in the side


Murray missed him first but seems to get no blame. Conway missed a few tackles against the Argies as well which Kearney swept up. Would like to see Larmour give a start at fullback in the summer tour.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
SASP wrote:
He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.


Why is he the only option? Is Larmour now persona non grata because of his defensive error against Italy, and was it any worse than Kearney's fcuk up against France the week before, or the two horrible attempts against the ABs in Chicago that cost us two tries? The difference between the two of them is that Larmour will probably learn from his mistake at this stage, and is light years ahead of Kearney in all aspects of attack. Conway, who was excellent in the Autumn, wasn't going to be selected if fit against France, so its not lack of options that's keeping Kearney in the side


I guess it comes down to how much weighting you place on the various aspects of play.
Do you consider one fudge up to outweigh several competent plays? Hard to directly compare as a fuckup is obvious, whereas doing things well isn't always as clear. Just being in the correct place in the backfield might stop the opposition kicking, that's good play that is very hard to notice as a spectator. In that same scenario, being in the wrong place could allow the opposition 10 to see the space and dribble the ball into the corner and pin the team back.

I'm only really playing devil's advocate, I'm not trying to defend Kearney to the hilt. Like I said, it all depends on what you consider to be most important and how the pros and cons might balance each other.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
SASP wrote:
He doesn't have untouchable status. He is the only option. The other options are either raw or injured or fúcking off to France.


Why is he the only option? Is Larmour now persona non grata because of his defensive error against Italy, and was it any worse than Kearney's fcuk up against France the week before, or the two horrible attempts against the ABs in Chicago that cost us two tries? The difference between the two of them is that Larmour will probably learn from his mistake at this stage, and is light years ahead of Kearney in all aspects of attack. Conway, who was excellent in the Autumn, wasn't going to be selected if fit against France, so its not lack of options that's keeping Kearney in the side


Larmour - RAW
Conway - Injured
You only look at incidents instead of the bigger picture.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
nardol wrote:
Captain Scarlet wrote:
I think Ireland will probably beat Wales and Scotland and it'll come down to the final game in Twickers.

I see Schmidt's loyalty to Rob Kearney as a potential achilles heel though. He offers little in attack, and just can't/won't tackle.


If kearney plays he needs to stop running the ball.

He never bounces another player and the number of turnovers he concedes running from the back.

He has a big boot. USE IT.
I like Kearney for the solid reception of the high ball he offers.


Which he then turns over too often by running into the biggest opposition players he can find, as you mentioned above. I cannot imagine any other player's glaringly obvious limitations being tolerated to this extent. If he doesn't completely shit the bed, and then smear the shite across Joe's face, all his mistakes are ignored, and he's eulogised for catching an occasional ball. Its fcuking insanity. :shock:

What did I tell you about gilding the lily?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:17 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Lenny wrote:
nardol wrote:
Captain Scarlet wrote:
I think Ireland will probably beat Wales and Scotland and it'll come down to the final game in Twickers.

I see Schmidt's loyalty to Rob Kearney as a potential achilles heel though. He offers little in attack, and just can't/won't tackle.


If kearney plays he needs to stop running the ball.

He never bounces another player and the number of turnovers he concedes running from the back.

He has a big boot. USE IT.
I like Kearney for the solid reception of the high ball he offers.


Which he then turns over too often by running into the biggest opposition players he can find, as you mentioned above. I cannot imagine any other player's glaringly obvious limitations being tolerated to this extent. If he doesn't completely shit the bed, and then smear the shite across Joe's face, all his mistakes are ignored, and he's eulogised for catching an occasional ball. Its fcuking insanity. :shock:

What did I tell you about gilding the lily?


Why do you think I pay any attention to what you post?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


I wouldn't touch him.

Not that it'd matter given his propensity for seeking contact. I reckon I'd be doing well to keep him away from me for more than a few seconds in a broken field situation .

I'd only manage that if I were wearing a refs jersey too I reckon.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:20 pm 
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redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


I wouldn't touch him.

Not that it'd matter given his propensity for seeking contact. I reckon I'd be doing well to keep him away from me for more than a few seconds in a broken field situation .

I'd only manage that if I were wearing a refs jersey too I reckon.


Another top contribution on your favourite topic which really ads to the debate. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


I wouldn't touch him.

Not that it'd matter given his propensity for seeking contact. I reckon I'd be doing well to keep him away from me for more than a few seconds in a broken field situation .

I'd only manage that if I were wearing a refs jersey too I reckon.


Another top contribution on your favourite topic which really ads to the debate. :thumbup:


I pride myself on my measured contributions. I have a reminder stitched into the waistband of my jocks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:48 pm 
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redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


I wouldn't touch him.

Not that it'd matter given his propensity for seeking contact. I reckon I'd be doing well to keep him away from me for more than a few seconds in a broken field situation .

I'd only manage that if I were wearing a refs jersey too I reckon.


Another top contribution on your favourite topic which really ads to the debate. :thumbup:


I pride myself on my measured contributions. I have a reminder stitched into the waistband of my jocks.


Is it beside the note saying "wear with pride and honesty"?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:50 pm 
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I think Kearney is untouchable while we are bedding in Stockdale. Its the trade off for having a winger with the potential strike-rate of an AB wing. Whether Stockdale needs to be looked after until after the RWC or he's a quick study and we can bring through a new 15 with Earls and Stockdale remains to be seen. I suspect the former and we will retain Kearney until the RWC


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:09 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
Lenny wrote:
nardol wrote:
Captain Scarlet wrote:
I think Ireland will probably beat Wales and Scotland and it'll come down to the final game in Twickers.

I see Schmidt's loyalty to Rob Kearney as a potential achilles heel though. He offers little in attack, and just can't/won't tackle.


If kearney plays he needs to stop running the ball.

He never bounces another player and the number of turnovers he concedes running from the back.

He has a big boot. USE IT.
I like Kearney for the solid reception of the high ball he offers.


Which he then turns over too often by running into the biggest opposition players he can find, as you mentioned above. I cannot imagine any other player's glaringly obvious limitations being tolerated to this extent. If he doesn't completely shit the bed, and then smear the shite across Joe's face, all his mistakes are ignored, and he's eulogised for catching an occasional ball. Its fcuking insanity. :shock:


Stop making stuff up. He barely ever gets turned over after taking contact. That's complete nonsense.


38 seconds in. It was only 2 weeks ago and cost 3 points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlgwxecnOx8


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


I wouldn't touch him.

Not that it'd matter given his propensity for seeking contact. I reckon I'd be doing well to keep him away from me for more than a few seconds in a broken field situation .

I'd only manage that if I were wearing a refs jersey too I reckon.


Another top contribution on your favourite topic which really ads to the debate. :thumbup:


I pride myself on my measured contributions. I have a reminder stitched into the waistband of my jocks.


Is it beside the note saying "wear with pride and honesty"?


I thought it was quite good myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 pm 
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“Adding to the debate”......I must’ve wondered onto the wrong thread. I thought this was the Irish thread Where one-sided ranting was more the order of the day.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Rumham wrote:
38 seconds in. It was only 2 weeks ago and cost 3 points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlgwxecnOx8

1


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Rumham wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Lenny wrote:
nardol wrote:
Captain Scarlet wrote:
I think Ireland will probably beat Wales and Scotland and it'll come down to the final game in Twickers.

I see Schmidt's loyalty to Rob Kearney as a potential achilles heel though. He offers little in attack, and just can't/won't tackle.


If kearney plays he needs to stop running the ball.

He never bounces another player and the number of turnovers he concedes running from the back.

He has a big boot. USE IT.
I like Kearney for the solid reception of the high ball he offers.


Which he then turns over too often by running into the biggest opposition players he can find, as you mentioned above. I cannot imagine any other player's glaringly obvious limitations being tolerated to this extent. If he doesn't completely shit the bed, and then smear the shite across Joe's face, all his mistakes are ignored, and he's eulogised for catching an occasional ball. Its fcuking insanity. :shock:


Stop making stuff up. He barely ever gets turned over after taking contact. That's complete nonsense.


38 seconds in. It was only 2 weeks ago and cost 3 points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlgwxecnOx8


Yes, I know. That's the exception not the rule.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Rugby player concedes kickable penalty. Never select him again. :|


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:25 pm 
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DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
I think Kearney is untouchable while we are bedding in Stockdale. Its the trade off for having a winger with the potential strike-rate of an AB wing. Whether Stockdale needs to be looked after until after the RWC or he's a quick study and we can bring through a new 15 with Earls and Stockdale remains to be seen. I suspect the former and we will retain Kearney until the RWC


Defensively I think Stockdale is still a bit off the standard Schmidt and Farrell would like so Kearney will be staying put for now, not that he is a great defender. If Payne was fit I suspect he would be the full back, but that is irrelevant anyway


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Rugby player concedes kickable penalty. Never select him again. :|

Lenny and co must hate Conway and Zebo.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Rugby player concedes kickable penalty. Never select him again. :|


Just pointing out an example of Kearney taking the ball poorly into contact in our most recent competitive game. It's pretty relevant to the argument.

Whether you drop him or not a separate discussion. I think he's set in stone until the RWC next year and then he'll be pushed aside for a new guy to take over the mantle.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:56 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Rugby player concedes kickable penalty. Never select him again. :|

Lenny and co must hate Conway and Zebo.


The last winger I liked was Ian Dowling.

Even though he was a bit flash to be entirely my cup of tea.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
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Location: We'll Never Forget You Geordan D'Arcy
Nolanator wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Who says he's untouchable?

There are many very valid reasons to criticise him, but you don't need to claim that he's frequently turned over as one of them. This is how nonsense becomes accepted wisdom.


I wouldn't touch him.

Not that it'd matter given his propensity for seeking contact. I reckon I'd be doing well to keep him away from me for more than a few seconds in a broken field situation .

I'd only manage that if I were wearing a refs jersey too I reckon.


Another top contribution on your favourite topic which really ads to the debate. :thumbup:


I pride myself on my measured contributions. I have a reminder stitched into the waistband of my jocks.


Is it beside the note saying "wear with pride and honesty"?


You got me. You done got me good.


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