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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:25 am 
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matta25 wrote:
How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.


JJ was tough. I'd be tempted to see how a half with |Ford at 10 and a half with Farrell at 10 will go. The big problem is the backrow though. A lock at 6 and a 6 at 7 is not a successful backrow. Eddie himself knows Robshaw is not a 7. He's said it, so where is this evidence come form he should play at 7? It's bonkers.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:28 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
matta25 wrote:
How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.


JJ was tough. I'd be tempted to see how a half with |Ford at 10 and a half with Farrell at 10 will go. The big problem is the backrow though. A lock at 6 and a 6 at 7 is not a successful backrow. Eddie himself knows Robshaw is not a 7. He's said it, so where is this evidence come form he should play at 7? It's bonkers.





Jones has backed himself into a corner unnecessarily. He's not been picking players in form, or, more infuriatingly, he's ignoring experience gained from the Argentina tour like Wilson and Armand completely and wasted 3 or 4 England sessions looking at Gary Graham.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:33 am 
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LCD's been training with the squad all 6N right? It's not another scrum half thing where Eddie thinks he only needs two hookers?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:34 am 
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matta25 wrote:
LCD's been training with the squad all 6N right? It's not another scrum half thing where Eddie thinks he only needs two hookers?


Brought him in this week I believe.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:35 am 
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Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
matta25 wrote:
How many tackles will Farrell miss on Bastareaud :(( ? Tough call to drop Joseph, as ever.


JJ was tough. I'd be tempted to see how a half with |Ford at 10 and a half with Farrell at 10 will go. The big problem is the backrow though. A lock at 6 and a 6 at 7 is not a successful backrow. Eddie himself knows Robshaw is not a 7. He's said it, so where is this evidence come form he should play at 7? It's bonkers.





Jones has backed himself into a corner unnecessarily. He's not been picking players in form, or, more infuriatingly, he's ignoring experience gained from the Argentina tour like Wilson and Armand completely and wasd 3 or 4 England sessions looking at Gary Graham.


Gary Graham is actually a good 7 though, a bit if a beast at the breakdown. Worth a look.

The issue is Eddie Jones this past half year is he has turned into a voyeur. He likes to look at new England players but he doesn't like adding them into the team.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:38 am 
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JJ rightfully dropped, he's been worse than shit, but whay the fuck have we picked that fucking back row again? It's the most obvious area of weakness and he's picked it time and again :x


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:07 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.


Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:26 pm 
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With the backrow, and aside from issues around loyalty, I can only think he is expecting a different challenge at the breakdown than Scotland so believes this backrow can manage.

Hughes might also be better this week having had the extra match fitness boost.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Real possibility we could lose three games on the bounce I fear. Side just doesn't feel right. Too many players that don't quite fit.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:34 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:



Or did the post game analysis show that much of the problem was Owens being an utter plum?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:41 pm 
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mr flaps wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:



Or did the post game analysis show that much of the problem was Owens being an utter plum?


Owens being, or not being, a plum (didn't think he was awful by any means), didn't stop our players from arriving late to the breakdowns, or failing to clear out the scots.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
mr flaps wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:



Or did the post game analysis show that much of the problem was Owens being an utter plum?


Owens being, or not being, a plum (didn't think he was awful by any means), didn't stop our players from arriving late to the breakdowns, or failing to clear out the scots.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Does anyone feel like we're at the "joe Worsley at 7" point in this era. From a English Fan hysteria point of view?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:56 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
Eddie has officially crossed over into the bizarro selection world of being a proper England coach

Team gets smashed at the breakdown and loses? Make changes... at wing and fullback :?

"Oh the breakdown isn't a one-man job, everybody in the team is responsible" :yawn:

Perhaps England should just abolish back row players altogether and pick whoever they want there - get Sinckler and Cowan-Dickie on the flanks and Joseph at Number 8

After all the breakdown isn't a one-man show :roll:


Sinkler and Cowan dickie would inject some pace into the back row.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:56 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Teo OK, not convinced but I can see the benefit. Watson OK, need someone to get time in the shirt, Daly - just hope he's match ready - he's our best back.

But Fck knows what's with Eddie and the back row - it's just madness - they were awful v the Scots and aren't going to, suddenly, become an international quality unit - even if they manage to do enough against France.

At least he's had to give George a start, so there'll be a little more pace in the pack.


I remain, utterly unconvinced about Eddie. We've made zero progress in the last 18 months and there's precious few signs that he is acknowledging/tackling the real problems in the team.

Another loss would be no bad thing.



24 wins from 26. Wow you’re a tough on to please.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:56 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.


Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.


You hear that, I hear otherwise- maybe he’s in between.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:59 pm 
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After Eddie's bizarre rant to the press about how outstanding Mike Brown has been for 24 games, he gets dropped.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Don't get all this "we got turned over at the breakdown, so need a proper 7" nonsense.

A good 7 can't defend your own ball. That's about changing your pod system and playing narrower.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:04 pm 
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I’ve still got faith in Edward though, for the record. I may think his back row is batshit but overall he’s still going well.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:05 pm 
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matta25 wrote:
After Eddie's bizarre rant to the press about how outstanding Mike Brown has been for 24 games, he gets dropped.





"You can only polish a turd for so long before you get shit on your hands"

- Dalai Lama


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Scrummie wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Teo OK, not convinced but I can see the benefit. Watson OK, need someone to get time in the shirt, Daly - just hope he's match ready - he's our best back.

But Fck knows what's with Eddie and the back row - it's just madness - they were awful v the Scots and aren't going to, suddenly, become an international quality unit - even if they manage to do enough against France.

At least he's had to give George a start, so there'll be a little more pace in the pack.


I remain, utterly unconvinced about Eddie. We've made zero progress in the last 18 months and there's precious few signs that he is acknowledging/tackling the real problems in the team.

Another loss would be no bad thing.


24 wins from 26. Wow you’re a tough on to please.



Do you think we're a better team now than we were 18 months ago ??????

Do you think we're on track to win the RWC ?????


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:08 pm 
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The hilarious thing is that Robshaw is a 6, Lawes is officially a 6 (as of this season) and Hughes was initially picked by Eddie as a long-term 6 (prior to the Billy injury)

Not since Croft-Robshaw-Wood have we seen so many blindsides in one back row


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:09 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
I’ve still got faith in Edward though, for the record. I may think his back row is batshit but overall he’s still going well.



Personally think the reactions from some are a bit bizarre - we are nowhere near the bad days of Robinson, Johnson, Ashton ETC in terms of overall performances and results.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:15 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Don't get all this "we got turned over at the breakdown, so need a proper 7" nonsense.

A good 7 can't defend your own ball. That's about changing your pod system and playing narrower.


That's just wrong really.

Check out around 29.48 in the Scotland game. Scrum, ball goes to Ford who sees space and attacks. Barclay (who was playing openside a the time), gets off the scrum, tackles Ford, get's back to his feet, clear release and latches on, then Robshaw get's there and fails to move him. A proper 7 preferably just gets to Ford first, preventing any hands in the ruck, or at worst, actually clears Barclay out whilst he's getting back to his feet, Scotland win an easy pen. Similar from set piece at around 36.27, though not sure if that was a pen in the end. Robshaw just isn't quick enough. Put him at 6 where it's far less of an issue, and his strengths are supported far more.

A good 7 should not only be doing this for set piece, but for breaks as well, reading the play and getting into position. Hask had a good example of this for the lions, when the Lions broke, made 60m, and the opposition 7 got over the ball, but Hask basically cleared out the 7 and the tackled player in one huge hit. Hask is far from rounded, and we should be looking to move on, but he's an absolutely fabulous example of how a 7 can be influential in winning your own ball consistently at key times.

Should the rest of the pack be working well? Of course, but Lawes is not good at the breakdown, and putting him in the loose forwards just makes that even more noticeable, since it denies England of what would normally be a more accomplished breakdown worker there.

Can the system be adapted to make up for our lack of ability and poor selection? To a degree yes, but not for those set pieces or scrums!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:16 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.


Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.


You hear that, I hear otherwise- maybe he’s in between.


Yeah, but I hear it both from the public stuff people say and what someone who played a lot of matches with him says.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Don't get all this "we got turned over at the breakdown, so need a proper 7" nonsense.

A good 7 can't defend your own ball. That's about changing your pod system and playing narrower.


That's just wrong really.

Check out around 29.48 in the Scotland game. Scrum, ball goes to Ford who sees space and attacks. Barclay (who was playing openside a the time), gets off the scrum, tackles Ford, get's back to his feet, clear release and latches on, then Robshaw get's there and fails to move him. A proper 7 preferably just gets to Ford first, preventing any hands in the ruck, or at worst, actually clears Barclay out whilst he's getting back to his feet, Scotland win an easy pen. Similar from set piece at around 36.27, though not sure if that was a pen in the end. Robshaw just isn't quick enough. Put him at 6 where it's far less of an issue, and his strengths are supported far more.

A good 7 should not only be doing this for set piece, but for breaks as well, reading the play and getting into position. Hask had a good example of this for the lions, when the Lions broke, made 60m, and the opposition 7 got over the ball, but Hask basically cleared out the 7 and the tackled player in one huge hit. Hask is far from rounded, and we should be looking to move on, but he's an absolutely fabulous example of how a 7 can be influential in winning your own ball consistently at key times.

Should the rest of the pack be working well? Of course, but Lawes is not good at the breakdown, and putting him in the loose forwards just makes that even more noticeable, since it denies England of what would normally be a more accomplished breakdown worker there.

Can the system be adapted to make up for our lack of ability and poor selection? To a degree yes, but not for those set pieces or scrums!




Actually, a proper 7 would have cheated and ran across, pulled back Barclay, done whatever required to regain the advantage lost from being slow off the scrum.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Raggs you clearly haven't been handed the England rugby supporter guidebook on how to deal with getting beat at the breakdown - the order of blame is as follows

1. The ref on the day
2. The reffing in the Premiership
3. Anyone in the tight five who had a bad game
4. Anyone in the backline who had a bad game
5. The Premiership for picking too many foreign 7s
6. The Premiership for not picking any 7s at all
7. Our age-grade sides for not producing any 7s
8. Tom Rees for retiring so early


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:55 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Scrummie wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Teo OK, not convinced but I can see the benefit. Watson OK, need someone to get time in the shirt, Daly - just hope he's match ready - he's our best back.

But Fck knows what's with Eddie and the back row - it's just madness - they were awful v the Scots and aren't going to, suddenly, become an international quality unit - even if they manage to do enough against France.

At least he's had to give George a start, so there'll be a little more pace in the pack.


I remain, utterly unconvinced about Eddie. We've made zero progress in the last 18 months and there's precious few signs that he is acknowledging/tackling the real problems in the team.

Another loss would be no bad thing.


24 wins from 26. Wow you’re a tough on to please.



Do you think we're a better team now than we were 18 months ago ??????

Do you think we're on track to win the RWC ?????


Yes and getting there.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:57 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.


Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.


You hear that, I hear otherwise- maybe he’s in between.


Yeah, but I hear it both from the public stuff people say and what someone who played a lot of matches with him says.

Yeah but I hear it from players that aren’t quins.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Don't get all this "we got turned over at the breakdown, so need a proper 7" nonsense.

A good 7 can't defend your own ball. That's about changing your pod system and playing narrower.


That's just wrong really.

Check out around 29.48 in the Scotland game. Scrum, ball goes to Ford who sees space and attacks. Barclay (who was playing openside a the time), gets off the scrum, tackles Ford, get's back to his feet, clear release and latches on, then Robshaw get's there and fails to move him. A proper 7 preferably just gets to Ford first, preventing any hands in the ruck, or at worst, actually clears Barclay out whilst he's getting back to his feet, Scotland win an easy pen. Similar from set piece at around 36.27, though not sure if that was a pen in the end. Robshaw just isn't quick enough. Put him at 6 where it's far less of an issue, and his strengths are supported far more.

A good 7 should not only be doing this for set piece, but for breaks as well, reading the play and getting into position. Hask had a good example of this for the lions, when the Lions broke, made 60m, and the opposition 7 got over the ball, but Hask basically cleared out the 7 and the tackled player in one huge hit. Hask is far from rounded, and we should be looking to move on, but he's an absolutely fabulous example of how a 7 can be influential in winning your own ball consistently at key times.

Should the rest of the pack be working well? Of course, but Lawes is not good at the breakdown, and putting him in the loose forwards just makes that even more noticeable, since it denies England of what would normally be a more accomplished breakdown worker there.

Can the system be adapted to make up for our lack of ability and poor selection? To a degree yes, but not for those set pieces or scrums!

As we keep saying, you can’t do much about lack of pace. Doesn’t matter how effective you are if you don’t get there.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:02 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
If he’s trained at 15 this week he may be more settled? Wonder how brown will cope as a dirtracker, he’s reputed to be a bit of an arsehole.


Is he? His reputation appears to be that he's a lovely and chilled out guy when he's not playing a game of rugby.


You hear that, I hear otherwise- maybe he’s in between.


Yeah, but I hear it both from the public stuff people say and what someone who played a lot of matches with him says.

Yeah but I hear it from players that aren’t quins.


England players?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Scrummie wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Scrummie wrote:
ovalball wrote:
Teo OK, not convinced but I can see the benefit. Watson OK, need someone to get time in the shirt, Daly - just hope he's match ready - he's our best back.

But Fck knows what's with Eddie and the back row - it's just madness - they were awful v the Scots and aren't going to, suddenly, become an international quality unit - even if they manage to do enough against France.

At least he's had to give George a start, so there'll be a little more pace in the pack.


I remain, utterly unconvinced about Eddie. We've made zero progress in the last 18 months and there's precious few signs that he is acknowledging/tackling the real problems in the team.

Another loss would be no bad thing.


24 wins from 26. Wow you’re a tough on to please.



Do you think we're a better team now than we were 18 months ago ??????

Do you think we're on track to win the RWC ?????


Yes and getting there.


You must be watching a different England side than I am.

This side is not as good as the side that won the GS. And it has significant weaknesses that don't appear to have been addressed.

We can't just rely on BV to come back and make a huge difference.

I'm not saying we're rubbish, we're still a good side, I just don't see how the side has really developed since the GS.


Last edited by ovalball on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:10 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:

England players?


What is this- top trumps?

You hear he’s a great guy, I hear he’s a bit of an arsehole.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:16 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:

England players?


What is this- top trumps?

You hear he’s a great guy, I hear he’s a bit of an arsehole.


Just trying to establish if they're people who would actually know. You seem to want to dismiss the opinions of people who spend the most time with him but your anonymous and undefined mates seem to be all knowing.

Like the idea that he's a good bloke off the field is pretty much the default opinion so if you're going against the grain I guess you need a little bit to back it up. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, just curious as it runs directly opposite to what I've heard publicly and privately from those who know him.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:23 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Like the idea that he's a good bloke off the field is pretty much the default opinion so if you're going against the grain I guess you need a little bit to back it up. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, just curious as it runs directly opposite to what I've heard publicly and privately from those who know him.



Why do you think the default opinion is that off the pitch we all think he's a good bloke? On the pitch, he's a chippy dickhead.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:24 pm 
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From people in the game, not random morons on forums and social media.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:25 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
From people in the game, not random morons on forums and social media.




How do you get time to speak with people in the game as well as to random morons?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Chips wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
From people in the game, not random morons on forums and social media.




How do you get time to speak with people in the game as well as to random morons?


It's weird that people in the game never say anything that finds its way to the public. Total radio silence.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Anyway, back to the selection over everyone's favourite Aunt Sally.

Bit surprised Mako starts, he hasn't been tearing up trees and his scrummaging against some whacking great French props raises concerns.

George, here's your big chance, show us your skillz.

Backrow clusterfuck. Robshaw at blindside, Hughes plus whoever is fittest out of Hask and Simmons looks a lot better balanced.

JJ has been way off his best but I worry about Te'o's rush with left monster doglegs against Italy. I suppose Jones is looking to fight fire with fire against White Nonu.

I think he is easing Brown out but I also don't think he entirely trusts Watson at full back. However, if Daly has any kind of match fitness that gives a balance with his smarts, Watson's pace (which I still think is better used on the wing) and May's tombola of pace and brain injury.

Bench looks good.

France by 20.


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