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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:36 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
Oh Christ, I really should rephrase that


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I prefer 4-4-2 or 1-4-4-1


I always like the Christmas tree formation. They should bring that back.

Good old terry venables.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Schonert was out for a long time with a broken ankle i believe.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:01 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
My club uses 2-4-2 with the locks and props making up the 4.



When did you start using it? The first I heard of this stuff was from a Murray Kinsella article comparing ABs / Connacht's use of it vs the Aussies' preference for the other thing.

I'm not a fan of any of it, but will spare you my ranting. :) Just wondering how long it's been in operation with club teams?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Just came in this season with our new coaches (from Blackheath so assume they did it there).

To be clear we are a level 5 club.

Why do you dislike it?..as a prop I like the structure.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:00 pm 
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mr flaps wrote:
ovalball wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Watson is a better winger than Daly, who is a fine player in his own right but doesn't have Watson's ability in the air and Watson has the edge for tight finishing. Happy to have them both ahead of May, though.

Watson has played fullback for England before, hence my caution. He's been a bit of a no show.


Given the choice, I'd take Daly. Just as good in attack, better defender/tackler, harder to bring down, passes better. He'd also, most likely, be a better FB than Watson. Just a better, all round, player.



Daly is one of the best players in the world.


I don't know why he doesn't get a shot at 13. Neither Te'o nor jj are pulling up trees.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:05 pm 
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But yes, I think it would have made more sense to put him at 23 for this game given his lack of game time and the weather forecast. He's the perfect 23. Covers entire back 4.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:01 am 
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Eddie has officially lost the plot. Last game we get stiffed at the breakdown, Watson and the FF axis were a defensive shambles and added nothing offensively. So we pick the same back row, move Watson to FB and stick with the dire FF axis. Fan fookin tastic. Thanks Eddie you complete moron.

I would have dropped Ford, moved Farrell to 10 with Te’o and Daly at centre. Solomona and Watson on the wing and Brown at FB (would really prefer Woodward but the Jones radar doesn’t work very well outside London). Simmonds in the back row.

Expecting to see the same breakdown shambles, and the big Basteraud going straight through Owen ‘missed tackle’ Farrell who will kick 3 points to justify his selection at centre. Ford will mince around doing zilch again. Watson will be jittery in defence and under the high ball, and will be stripped in contact or run down a blind alley and be turned over. Johnny May will flap around as usual. Oh and of course we lost yet another for the season in a buckin training incident. How many is that now ? How many needed before training sessions change ? Most of them look shattered before they get on the pitch FFS.

Get a fuckin grip Eddie or get out.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:10 am 
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So, in the past I've definitely been one calling to see Farrell at 10. And I suppose that things shouldn't change too quickly on that front. But what exactly are people watching that they believe that Ford has been worse than Farrell and should be dropped instead of him?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:13 am 
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Raggs wrote:
So, in the past I've definitely been one calling to see Farrell at 10. And I suppose that things shouldn't change too quickly on that front. But what exactly are people watching that they believe that Ford has been worse than Farrell and should be dropped instead of him?


It's beyond me.

Besides which, it's nonsense to complain abut the FF axis, offensively, when they are getting such poor ball and the attacks break down so quickly because we lose it at the Breakdown.

Our problems do not lie with FF - sort the pack (especially the back row) out to get some clean ball and then maintain some continuity in attack. Retain the ball through more than a few phases and start putting defences under continued pressure - stop coughing it up, or giving away penalties, as soon as we get in the oppo 22.

I'd also like to see us challenge for the ball more, at line outs. If we must play 3 Locks, we should, at least, nick a few more from the oppo's throw.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:42 am 
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tc27 wrote:
Just came in this season with our new coaches (from Blackheath so assume they did it there).

To be clear we are a level 5 club.

Why do you dislike it?..as a prop I like the structure.


You’re in Shelford’s league? :thumbup:

The 2/4/2 type structures have been around a while- Tom Croft played as /1 like Kieron read does.

Makes it really easy for players, saves loads of energy as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:18 am 
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Just spoke to the missus- completely enraged brown has been dropped...something about best player etc


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:19 am 
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Raggs wrote:
So, in the past I've definitely been one calling to see Farrell at 10. And I suppose that things shouldn't change too quickly on that front. But what exactly are people watching that they believe that Ford has been worse than Farrell and should be dropped instead of him?



I always find this perplexing. Any observation will show Farrell limitations as a test 10. Ford has better vision, a much better, faster and more accurate pass and unlike Farrell can pass left to right.Ford also kicks better form hand and makes his tackles and creates more tries. Farrell is a better place kicker and more aggressive. I might take him in a wet weather game but he's weirdly always be heralded as the 2nd coming since he was a teenager and didn't even had a place.

But what needs to be sorted is the pack, the breakdown and scrum half. The pack need to give go forward ball, ideally by running onto passes at speed and making yards and pushing defenses back. The backrow needs to sort it's breakdown shit out and we need a scrum half who uses quick ball and can pass onto running players accurately.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:21 am 
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Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:25 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:29 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


What’s his percentage this tournament? I reckon he’s fluffed a few.

Classic man in the pub talk- ‘need a huge pack and a kicker’ :P


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:31 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


Not unique, see debates on the Oirish fred about Sexton


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:48 am 
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TopNacker wrote:
Eddie has officially lost the plot. Last game we get stiffed at the breakdown, Watson and the FF axis were a defensive shambles and added nothing offensively. So we pick the same back row, move Watson to FB and stick with the dire FF axis. Fan fookin tastic. Thanks Eddie you complete moron.

I would have dropped Ford, moved Farrell to 10 with Te’o and Daly at centre. Solomona and Watson on the wing and Brown at FB (would really prefer Woodward but the Jones radar doesn’t work very well outside London). Simmonds in the back row.

Expecting to see the same breakdown shambles, and the big Basteraud going straight through Owen ‘missed tackle’ Farrell who will kick 3 points to justify his selection at centre. Ford will mince around doing zilch again. Watson will be jittery in defence and under the high ball, and will be stripped in contact or run down a blind alley and be turned over. Johnny May will flap around as usual. Oh and of course we lost yet another for the season in a buckin training incident. How many is that now ? How many needed before training sessions change ? Most of them look shattered before they get on the pitch FFS.

Get a fuckin grip Eddie or get out.




That's filled me with optimistic joy.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:56 am 
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Thought Faz was pretty ponderous at 10 when he moved there against Scotland. The subs gave us some momentum but he was mostly just jogging and passing miles in front of the defensive line.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:00 am 
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I would have made fewer changes if I had been in charge.

Hartley obviously replaced as an injury and George needs a chance to impress as a starter. Personally I'd prefer LCD to have a go but that would be slightly unfair on George

I'd have had Launch and Lawes as second row, Robshaw across to 6 with Haskell in to 7.

I would have started with the same backline as the Scottish game but If Daly was to come straight in I'd have bought him in for May.

I'd also have been tempted to go Ford, Teo, Joseph across 10, 12, 13 as if Farrell starts missing hits on the French centres England are in trouble.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:04 am 
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I’ve not seen the French back row- hopefully not a mobile selection.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:07 am 
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blindcider wrote:
I would have made fewer changes if I had been in charge.

Hartley obviously replaced as an injury and George needs a chance to impress as a starter. Personally I'd prefer LCD to have a go but that would be slightly unfair on George

I'd have had Launch and Lawes as second row, Robshaw across to 6 with Haskell in to 7.

I would have started with the same backline as the Scottish game but If Daly was to come straight in I'd have bought him in for May.

I'd also have been tempted to go Ford, Teo, Joseph across 10, 12, 13 as if Farrell starts missing hits on the French centres England are in trouble.


Pretty much dead-on my opinion on the issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:10 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
blindcider wrote:
I would have made fewer changes if I had been in charge.

Hartley obviously replaced as an injury and George needs a chance to impress as a starter. Personally I'd prefer LCD to have a go but that would be slightly unfair on George

I'd have had Launch and Lawes as second row, Robshaw across to 6 with Haskell in to 7.

I would have started with the same backline as the Scottish game but If Daly was to come straight in I'd have bought him in for May.

I'd also have been tempted to go Ford, Teo, Joseph across 10, 12, 13 as if Farrell starts missing hits on the French centres England are in trouble.


Pretty much dead-on my opinion on the issue.


Same here I think.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:12 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:16 am 
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Fordy's kicking has been excellent since Argentina. Farrell's kicking hasn't even been that good.

Agree with everything TopNacker said.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:16 am 
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Dropping Farrell is the single dumbest suggestion of what needs to happen to the England team.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:18 am 
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tc27 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.


It's an attitude that stretched all the way to Mike Catt and then Charlie Hodgson. Can't kick, can't play 10. Ironically Wilko while taking kicking to another level flourished in England's flowing attacking style when Brian Ashton was attack coach. However for some reaosn despite you needing 3 penalties to outscore a converted try, there is some belief that World cups always come down to penalties kickers.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:21 am 
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tc27 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.



Chips wrote:
Dropping Farrell is the single dumbest suggestion of what needs to happen to the England team.


As if by magic, the very attitude problem turn's up.

Why? Because he misses easy to make tackles? His placing kicking is not at it's best recently? He is slow to pass and see space? He can't always pass left to right? And even when he does, it's slooooooow. Farrell's best contribution is he is vocal and a leader, his skills and attributes right now are not something any top team will miss.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:22 am 
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Chips wrote:
Dropping Farrell is the single dumbest suggestion of what needs to happen to the England team.


I like Farrell, don't get me wrong (I only said it as a consideration rather than an absolute too).

The issue is that the recent backrow has not been quick enough to cope with the wolfpack/speedbump tactic. Bring Hask in as 7 and retain Farrell fine. Keep the backrow as it was against Scotland and Farrell needs to make his tackles stick as Robshaw isn't quite quick enough as a 7 to cover him IMO. I personally prefer Ford as the 10 option.

Its not getting rid of Farrell per sé as much as balancing the strengths and weaknesses to the talent available


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:25 am 
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No point dropping or changing the Ford Farrell axis now.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
Why? Because he misses easy to make tackles? His placing kicking is not at it's best recently? He is slow to pass and see space? He can't always pass left to right? And even when he does, it's slooooooow. Farrell's best contribution is he is vocal and a leader, his skills and attributes right now are not something any top team will miss.




Everything you have written is wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:26 am 
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tc27 wrote:
No point dropping or changing the Ford Farrell axis now.


Everyone's position should be under threat always


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:31 am 
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Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Why? Because he misses easy to make tackles? His placing kicking is not at it's best recently? He is slow to pass and see space? He can't always pass left to right? And even when he does, it's slooooooow. Farrell's best contribution is he is vocal and a leader, his skills and attributes right now are not something any top team will miss.




Everything you have written is wrong.

So you're saying his place kicking is going well at the moment?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:32 am 
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Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Why? Because he misses easy to make tackles? His placing kicking is not at it's best recently? He is slow to pass and see space? He can't always pass left to right? And even when he does, it's slooooooow. Farrell's best contribution is he is vocal and a leader, his skills and attributes right now are not something any top team will miss.




Everything you have written is wrong.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:35 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
Chips wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
Why? Because he misses easy to make tackles? His placing kicking is not at it's best recently? He is slow to pass and see space? He can't always pass left to right? And even when he does, it's slooooooow. Farrell's best contribution is he is vocal and a leader, his skills and attributes right now are not something any top team will miss.




Everything you have written is wrong.

So you're saying his place kicking is going well at the moment?



It's not as good as it's been but certainly no cause for alarm.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:50 am 
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This bodes well for our last two games...

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:02 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
This bodes well for our last two games...

Image



Something is definitely wrong there ... look at the England and Ireland stats.

Edit - England stats look correct, BBC haven't bothered actually getting the Ireland stats


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:07 am 
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eldanielfire wrote:
tc27 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Farrell is bigger with an angry face. That means he tries harder etc.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Also he is a great place kicker, the uniquely English obsession as the defining requirement in a Fly Half.


I honestly think the whole 'drop Ford and bugger up one of the working combinations to achieve it' is based largely on the impression that Ford is not manly enough and doesn't kick goals.

Its f**king bizarre.



Chips wrote:
Dropping Farrell is the single dumbest suggestion of what needs to happen to the England team.


As if by magic, the very attitude problem turn's up.

Why? Because he misses easy to make tackles? His placing kicking is not at it's best recently? He is slow to pass and see space? He can't always pass left to right? And even when he does, it's slooooooow. Farrell's best contribution is he is vocal and a leader, his skills and attributes right now are not something any top team will miss.


Must be some mistake, I've been told repeatedly that he's our only world class player.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:07 am 
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Please- can somebody find the goal kicking stats?


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