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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
We picked potentially the most dynamic backrow available in Simmonds, but when it came to playing international rugby it looked like some more bosh could have been a better idea...


But was it with the correct game plan - you can't use Simmonds as a bosher - and did we have the right balance in personnel - simply putting Simmonds in at 8, and not changing anything else, is poor management.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:14 pm 
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RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
Likely to be revised, but ESPN have Simmonds at 24/0 on the tackle count, with the 3 tries and 95 metres made


Haven't watched, but does he play in the wide channels for Exeter like Read does for the ABs? Eddie doesn't employ BRs like that, does he?

Yes he plays wider. We saw in the 6N that he's sod all use against bigger men.


Not when you're tasked with running at them- would Read be any good? Billy V is, but it breaks him constantly.

There be truth in that. What makes Simmonds so effective is when he's allowed to play his natural game - but the same can be said for all the runners and riders in an and around England selection. It's being able to fit into Eddie's game plan that is the most important aspect.


Which is a problem when you have rigid coach whose gameplan comes before picking the best team rather then placing in the most effective gameplan for the bets players.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:20 pm 
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ovalball wrote:
Colour me Unconvinced. Especially while he is still picking Hartley and Cole in the squad - and while he is also ignoring more dynamic back row options. I'd be more convinced if the touring party is a bit less conservative than he's proven to be so far.


There is something ironic that the RFU managed to pick the one Australian coach who is committed to crash ball early 90's England style and has ignored how professionalism has reduced the effectiveness of that massively.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


You sure about that?

LCD is nearly 25 anyway - that's a bit old to throw like a twat.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:31 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


You sure about that?

LCD is nearly 25 anyway - that's a bit old to throw like a twat.


Yeah. He was rated for his scrummaging rather than his line-outs in the Johnson years.

EDIT: Even in 2012 people were complaining Hartley's lineouts were an issue:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1777&p=53942&hilit=hartley+lineouts#p53942


Last edited by eldanielfire on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
ovalball wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
I think the problem is that when you have a fit billy mowing teams down it really is formidable, it's just completely unsustainable and without him (no offence to hughes) the gameplan collapses.


You'd have hoped that an experienced international coach would have been able to work that out fairly quickly and adapt the game plan accordingly.


I've still got a lot of faith in edward, he's earned that- but he's got some painful decisions to make selection wise...and maybe coaching too,


We kept winning when Hughes was playing 60+...

If Eddie has been beasting them, with a focus on conditioning rather than peaking for games, they'll have lacked explosive power. Yes, we could do with some more carriers, but it's not unrealistic to think that Genge, LCD and Sink could be easily introduced. Even picking Haskell over Lawes gives a better tight carrier, and massively improves our ruck security, which is really where we were beaten for most the games. Add in a Hughes or BV at 8, rather than Simmonds, and I think we tip back quite easily onto the winning games side of things.


I agree, but I don't want to tip back to winning games narrowly. I'd rather aim much higher.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:49 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
fatcat wrote:
eldanielfire wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
As long as lcd throws the ball in reasonably he’s head and shoulders above the competition.


Yep. Big if though. He always looks great until the pressure is on. It's a problem.


Remember Hartley was a very inconsistent thrower in his early years. Now that is a hugely dependable aspect of his game.


You sure about that?

LCD is nearly 25 anyway - that's a bit old to throw like a twat.


Yeah. He was rated for his scrummaging rather than his line-outs in the Johnson years.

EDIT: Even in 2012 people were complaining Hartley's lineouts were an issue:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1777&p=53942&hilit=hartley+lineouts#p53942


Ahh, LTVG syndrome from 6 years ago.


I found this gem on that thread -

Quote:
Go ahead and take Robshaw out of your team for a match, see how well that works out. I'm willing to bet that the loss of a player who is an immense tackler, a great ball-carrier, one of the most important leaders and is an absolute machine for the full 80 would have some sort of an effect on the team.


Well I wonder which poster wrote that!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:36 pm 
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fatcat wrote:

Ahh, LTVG syndrome from 6 years ago.


I found this gem on that thread -

Quote:
Go ahead and take Robshaw out of your team for a match, see how well that works out. I'm willing to bet that the loss of a player who is an immense tackler, a great ball-carrier, one of the most important leaders and is an absolute machine for the full 80 would have some sort of an effect on the team.


Well I wonder which poster wrote that!



You are mean! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:00 am 
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I know this will get shot down in flames, but I will put it out there. Does Simmonds have the gas to play at inside centre ? Or Joe Coka for that matter. I can't see Manu staying fit for long enough. Simmonds isn't an international 8 but could see him in a back row with say Billy and Rhodes or Willis.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:12 am 
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TopNacker wrote:
I know this will get shot down in flames, but I will put it out there. Does Simmonds have the gas to play at inside centre ? Or Joe Coka for that matter. I can't see Manu staying fit for long enough. Simmonds isn't an international 8 but could see him in a back row with say Billy and Rhodes or Willis.


If you want someone get get over the gainline and not be relied upon to play like a footballing centre, why not just go with someone who actually plays inside centre, like Barritt or Sam Hill? Would even go Burrell or Banahan before trying to convert a flanker at this stage in his career.

Mallinder has the size...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 am 
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matta25 wrote:
Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


That's going to make your usual holiday googling tougher, no?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:17 am 
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Nieghorn wrote:
TopNacker wrote:
I know this will get shot down in flames, but I will put it out there. Does Simmonds have the gas to play at inside centre ? Or Joe Coka for that matter. I can't see Manu staying fit for long enough. Simmonds isn't an international 8 but could see him in a back row with say Billy and Rhodes or Willis.


If you want someone get get over the gainline and not be relied upon to play like a footballing centre, why not just go with someone who actually plays inside centre, like Barritt or Sam Hill? Would even go Burrell or Banahan before trying to convert a flanker at this stage in his career.

Mallinder has the size...


Devoto and Mills are big guys, too. Plenty of much better options than taking an outstanding back rower and moving him to a completely unfamiliar position in the hope that having learned the role over a couple of seasons he might turn out to be a marginally better option than the number of other guys who already play there. For the few years he'd have left in his career (he turns 24 this year).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:20 am 
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4071 wrote:
Nieghorn wrote:
TopNacker wrote:
I know this will get shot down in flames, but I will put it out there. Does Simmonds have the gas to play at inside centre ? Or Joe Coka for that matter. I can't see Manu staying fit for long enough. Simmonds isn't an international 8 but could see him in a back row with say Billy and Rhodes or Willis.


If you want someone get get over the gainline and not be relied upon to play like a footballing centre, why not just go with someone who actually plays inside centre, like Barritt or Sam Hill? Would even go Burrell or Banahan before trying to convert a flanker at this stage in his career.

Mallinder has the size...


Devoto and Mills are big guys, too. Plenty of much better options than taking an outstanding back rower and moving him to a completely unfamiliar position in the hope that having learned the role over a couple of seasons he might turn out to be a marginally better option than the number of other guys who already play there. For the few years he'd have left in his career (he turns 24 this year).


/Burgess.

Simmonds would be just fine in a balanced back row.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:50 am 
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Simmonds was playing against a very limited team but he's quick & works hard. Test rugby 7 for me. Over to Yoda to sort out his selectorial turd-fest & develop game-smart players who can adapt to play as a unit.

As for whichever plum listed pea heart Mallinder :evil: for 12 please may you burn in the fires of hell..........


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:00 am 
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Portcullis Irish wrote:
Simmonds was playing against a very limited team but he's quick & works hard. Test rugby 7 for me. Over to Yoda to sort out his selectorial turd-fest & develop game-smart players who can adapt to play as a unit.

As for whichever plum listed pea heart Mallinder :evil: for 12 please may you burn in the fires of hell..........


I don't get these calls for Simmonds at 7 for England. England's problems are that they don't have a specialist openside or breakdown expert. Why move a player to 7 who provides neither quality?

A good summary of how Eddie Jones' England have broken down due to the absence of quality breakdown work is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guOQ9jkvdho


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:11 am 
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Simmonds needs to develop those skills to go with his current set to be considered for test rugby 7 as we don't have a 7 & Yoda wants one & we've just been bummed big time for not having one then he needs to develop one.
Agree its not the only issue he's got hence selectorial turd-fest...............


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:02 am 
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JM2K6 wrote:
matta25 wrote:
Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


That's going to make your usual holiday googling tougher, no?


:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:05 am 
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If Simmonds was to go to 7, with Billy at 8, someone like Jack Willis could balance out the backrow at 6. Then you have tight and wide carriers, link options, ability at the breakdown both in attack and defence, mobility in defence etc.

Willis used much at the lineout for Wasps? You could just have the lifters throw Simmonds into the air and wait for him to come back down with the ball...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:28 am 
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geordie_6 wrote:
If Simmonds was to go to 7, with Billy at 8, someone like Jack Willis could balance out the backrow at 6. Then you have tight and wide carriers, link options, ability at the breakdown both in attack and defence, mobility in defence etc.

Willis used much at the lineout for Wasps? You could just have the lifters throw Simmonds into the air and wait for him to come back down with the ball...


Has Simmonds actually shown that much ability at the ruck though? Not just turnover ball, but securing ball.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:38 am 
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Raggs wrote:
geordie_6 wrote:
If Simmonds was to go to 7, with Billy at 8, someone like Jack Willis could balance out the backrow at 6. Then you have tight and wide carriers, link options, ability at the breakdown both in attack and defence, mobility in defence etc.

Willis used much at the lineout for Wasps? You could just have the lifters throw Simmonds into the air and wait for him to come back down with the ball...


Has Simmonds actually shown that much ability at the ruck though? Not just turnover ball, but securing ball.


There's only on way to find out. You got several hours to spare?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:41 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
Raggs wrote:
geordie_6 wrote:
If Simmonds was to go to 7, with Billy at 8, someone like Jack Willis could balance out the backrow at 6. Then you have tight and wide carriers, link options, ability at the breakdown both in attack and defence, mobility in defence etc.

Willis used much at the lineout for Wasps? You could just have the lifters throw Simmonds into the air and wait for him to come back down with the ball...


Has Simmonds actually shown that much ability at the ruck though? Not just turnover ball, but securing ball.


There's only on way to find out. You got several hours to spare?


I actually thought we might want to wait for Exeter vs Wasps in the playoffs (hopefully).

I've got some numbers on him from the last 3 internationals though.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:43 am 
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Play off game would probably make sense. Certainly higher pressure rugby than the weekend


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:51 am 
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On our attacking ball Simmonds could comfortably support play and secure ball- which is what the hask does, more the securing ball obvs. Nowhere near robshaws quality over their ball, but robshaw is too slow to get there so that’s a mute point.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:58 am 
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Portcullis Irish wrote:
Simmonds was playing against a very limited team but he's quick & works hard. Test rugby 7 for me. Over to Yoda to sort out his selectorial turd-fest & develop game-smart players who can adapt to play as a unit.

As for whichever plum listed pea heart Mallinder :evil: for 12 please may you burn in the fires of hell..........


:lol: ... notice I put his name separate and only indicated that he has the size. He's obviously no 36, and that's saying something.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:59 am 
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The mutes normally hail from Leicester not Quins


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:34 pm 
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matta25 wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
matta25 wrote:
Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


That's going to make your usual holiday googling tougher, no?


:lol:


Major announcement due at 1pm ... :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:43 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
matta25 wrote:
Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


That's going to make your usual holiday googling tougher, no?


:lol: You twat!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Exeter Athletic.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:57 pm 
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fatcat wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
matta25 wrote:
Bristol to be rebranded Bristol Bears apparently.

Suggestions Gloucester could do likewise but as the Gloucester Lions

source: that RugbyInsideLine plum on twitter


That's going to make your usual holiday googling tougher, no?


:lol: You twat!


:lol:

Though, interesting that was the first thing that came to mind for JM...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Bristol Bears :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Saracens have decided they don't want to play in front of supporters apparently. Lots of people going from 660 for a season ticket to 1030!

Wray doesn't want to support the club that much apparently!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Nigel Wray to call for salary cap moderation in 2019.

Here, first.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Bristol should have rebranded themselves as the Bristol Brabazons. Over expensive project using outdated methods doomed to failure.

Bristol Bears :lol: Winding up the Briz fans in my office has been great


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Jack "glass cannon" Clifford goooooone again. Ripped his hamstring off the bone.

x( :(


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:19 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
Bristol should have rebranded themselves as the Bristol Brabazons. Over expensive project using outdated methods doomed to failure.

Bristol Bears :lol: Winding up the Briz fans in my office has been great

http://www.bristolbears.co.uk/


:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:22 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
Jack "glass cannon" Clifford goooooone again. Ripped his hamstring off the bone.

x( :(


He’s giving Manu a decent run for his money.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Plastic Sarrie wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Bristol should have rebranded themselves as the Bristol Brabazons. Over expensive project using outdated methods doomed to failure.

Bristol Bears :lol: Winding up the Briz fans in my office has been great

http://www.bristolbears.co.uk/


:lol:


:o :lol: no f**king way!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Jayzus. Clifford and Tuilagi could form a support group, moderated by veterans Jonny W and James Simpson-Daniel.


I know most people don't know there's an actual main page with articles, but anyone see this Olding to Exeter rumour that's been denied? If there's any iota of truth to it, how many bloody centres do they need? 6-7 very capable ones at the moment.


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