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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Maybe what I am about to say will be a bit controversial, but this place is all about open debate, so let me try?

When I grew up, the "Swart Gevaar" was the boogie man that was used to keep you in line. Better study, better perform, better conform, better focus, better be disciplined, or "Die Swart Gevaar" will overtake you. And it really worked! In the process a lot of us whites developed a work ethic that automatically gives you an advantage.

Yes, it's grounded in fear and racism, but no less effective. I see that same focus and discipline in my black colleagues that become really successful. They have similar stories to tell of parents that groomed them for big things, forcing them into a good work ethic despite adversary, forfeiting themselves to make this happen.

Maybe that is the real privilege? Being forced to do your best, having parents that engage in your life? And therein I think Apartheid's biggest sin lies, it separated parents from children in a big way, damaging families in the process.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Bloutoria wrote:
Maybe what I am about to say will be a bit controversial, but this place is all about open debate, so let me try?

When I grew up, the "Swart Gevaar" was the boogie man that was used to keep you in line. Better study, better perform, better conform, better focus, better be disciplined, or "Die Swart Gevaar" will overtake you. And it really worked! In the process a lot of us whites developed a work ethic that automatically gives you an advantage.

Yes, it's grounded in fear and racism, but no less effective. I see that same focus and discipline in my black colleagues that become really successful. They have similar stories to tell of parents that groomed them for big things, forcing them into a good work ethic despite adversary, forfeiting themselves to make this happen.

Maybe that is the real privilege? Being forced to do your best, having parents that engage in your life? And therein I think Apartheid's biggest sin lies, it separated parents from children in a big way, damaging families in the process.


Agree with every word.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:44 am 
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I've been having a few thoughts about Assfly's comments that the attitude of whites to the black majority of this country is unimportant and makes very little impact. And also that race relations are bad and getting worse.

Last Friday I travelled by bus from Johannesburg to Estcourt. I was the only white on the bus (it wasn't a 'coach'), but I was treated with great curtsey, with some of the other passengers going to great lengths to make sure I was comfortable.

I think, when you mix with other races at that level, you realise how important mutual respect is.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:54 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
I've been having a few thoughts about Assfly's comments that the attitude of whites to the black majority of this country is unimportant and makes very little impact.


I said no such thing :lol:

My argument is that the debate around so-called white privilege is a debate that will achieve little without some sort of action behind it. Even is white do publicly recognise the privileged position that they have in society, what does that actually do to change the situation of the less-privileged? That questions remains unanswered.

Rinkals wrote:
And also that race relations are bad and getting worse.

Last Friday I travelled by bus from Johannesburg to Estcourt. I was the only white on the bus (it wasn't a 'coach'), but I was treated with great curtsey, with some of the other passengers going to great lengths to make sure I was comfortable.

I think, when you mix with other races at that level, you realise how important mutual respect is.


It's nice that you can do that on a bus, and sometimes I wonder if race relations are better outside of the main urban areas.

My opinion on race relations comes from living in Kenya at the moment, after spending a year in Cape Town last year. The hostility between races in South Africa is another level, on both sides of the fence.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:01 am 
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I don't support Assfly's assertion. There are polarising ends but by far and large people laugh, chat and discuss. Generally South Africans get on pretty well.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:04 am 
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Fair enough. I'm glad your experience is more positive than mine.

Perhaps my time away from SA made me more sensitive to the racial undertones I experienced. Coming back to SA on holiday, I remember being shocked by the the "braai talk" with my fiends.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:08 am 
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assfly wrote:
Fair enough. I'm glad your experience is more positive than mine.

Perhaps my time away from SA made me more sensitive to the racial undertones I experienced. Coming back to SA on holiday, I remember being shocked by the the "braai talk" with my fiends.


Occasionally I hear that sort of thing but mostly in anger at the latest statements from politicians or some other complete stupidity. Rugby is far more discussed.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:09 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
Rugby is far more discussed.


Eish. Then the REAL hostility begins!


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:18 am 
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You just need to do what you can for yourself. Forget trying to save the country as it is in the hands of people who only care about themselves and voted in by people who only want a free piece of land. I don't get the racist thing. I don't believe that any parent with young children can feel racist . Most of the children are integrated and don't experience racism unless it's from their parents. My kid had his 5th birthday party on the weekend and the majority of his friends that attended are of colour. As were the parents. We kuier'ed lekker. The wine and beer was flowing and not a single political or racist incident happened or was discussed. It's only the ANC and EFF pushing racist agendas for votes


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:18 am 
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assfly wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I've been having a few thoughts about Assfly's comments that the attitude of whites to the black majority of this country is unimportant and makes very little impact.


I said no such thing :lol:

My argument is that the debate around so-called white privilege is a debate that will achieve little without some sort of action behind it. Even is white do publicly recognise the privileged position that they have in society, what does that actually do to change the situation of the less-privileged? That questions remains unanswered.

I'm basing my assertion on this:
assfly wrote:
My question is a practical one (not just to you, to anyone). What does this "measure of understanding" achieve? Does it make "us" or "them" feel better? It sure as hell doesn't put food on the table, or build a school.


I does seem to me that that says that the attitude of whites is unimportant because it doesn't put bread on the table or build a school, but perhaps I am misinterpreting.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:26 am 
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You're confusing the debate on white privilege with the attitude of whites. White privilege is a debate that involves both blacks and whites. You say that it's important that whites recognize white privilege to display a measure of understanding, my question is what does this achieve?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:26 am 
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assfly wrote:
My opinion on race relations comes from living in Kenya at the moment, after spending a year in Cape Town last year. The hostility between races in South Africa is another level, on both sides of the fence.

I have been to Nigeria a few times and will go there again on sunday week. I really enjoy going there, while most of my colleagues dont want to.

They dont have apartheid in Nigeria and they dont care about skin colour , they just want to survive in life. Nigeria keep me humble and I use their labour and way of life situations as an example how really fortunate we are in SA.

Once you experience a big city like Lagos where the office workers lunch is a carrot out of their garden and their roads are nearly non excisting it give you real perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:51 pm 
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I personally observe race relations here being worse than before and unlikely to improve. Look in the sa media and there is a obsessive focus on race, and in so much of m our politics. This is being consciously done by many groups (media, politicians, advertisers etc) for various short term benefits. I am amazed at what is being tolerated - this will have terrible consequences for all South Africans. I find it infuriating to witness and I can’t continue to be a member of such a broken society that does not want to be fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:53 pm 
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BokStorm wrote:
I personally observe race relations here being worse than before and unlikely to improve. Look in the sa media and there is a obsessive focus on race, and in so much of m our politics. This is being consciously done by many groups (media, politicians, advertisers etc) for various short term benefits. I am amazed at what is being tolerated - this will have terrible consequences for all South Africans. I find it infuriating to witness and I can’t continue to be a member of such a broken society that does not want to be fixed.


well said....


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Quote:
EFF leader Julius Malema has warned of an "unled revolution" in South Africa, as black people "are worse off in democracy than they were under apartheid"

"If things are going the way they are, there will be a revolution in this country. There will be an unled revolution, and an unled revolution is the highest form of anarchy," Malema told the Turkish Radio and Television Broadcasting Corporation.

The interview has made waves because of Malema's quotes that white people would not be slaughtered under his leadership, but that he could not "guarantee the future".



https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/malema-says-white-people-are-safe-under-his-leadership-warns-of-an-unled-revolution-20180613

:?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Juliaaas adding some spice ....


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:58 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Juliaaas adding some spice ....



Welcome back oomWT!!!

Onse komandeer-in-tjief. ;)

Al ons vêr-regse, rassistiese, chauvinistiese nasionaliste het oom rerig gemis.




(Met vêr-regs, rassisties, chauvinisties en nasionaliste bedoel ek almal regs van ANC-gatkruipers)


Sieg heil!


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:51 pm 
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I guess this comes under politics.

At gym yesterday a Russian was going on about how much he hates Russia. In his rant he spoke about the stupidity of South African farmers who had gone to Russia to farm, and how the Russian system would destroy all their efforts. His English was poor so I couldn't understand everything he was saying, but what do you guys know about this?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Thinly veiled "I go to gym" post


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:55 pm 
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assfly wrote:
Thinly veiled "I go to gym" post

I bloody can't run anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:13 pm 
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I did read something about it. Apparently the Russian government is allegedly offering help to South African farmers to set themselves up to help the Russian agricultural sector grow. Met with the standard response.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:20 pm 
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troglodiet wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Juliaaas adding some spice ....



Welcome back oomWT!!!

Onse komandeer-in-tjief. ;)

Al ons vêr-regse, rassistiese, chauvinistiese nasionaliste het oom rerig gemis.




(Met vêr-regs, rassisties, chauvinisties en nasionaliste bedoel ek almal regs van ANC-gatkruipers)


Sieg heil!



:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Fangle wrote:
I guess this comes under politics.

At gym yesterday a Russian was going on about how much he hates Russia. In his rant he spoke about the stupidity of South African farmers who had gone to Russia to farm, and how the Russian system would destroy all their efforts. His English was poor so I couldn't understand everything he was saying, but what do you guys know about this?


Heard / read / saw on television about South African farmers getting tracts of land in Zambia and the DRC to set up shop there, but first I've heard of Russia.

Interesting. Will be investigating for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:49 pm 
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https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa ... e-farmers/

Quality journalism :uhoh:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:03 pm 
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How do they braai in Russia ?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Thanks. This Russian says that they will lose it all. At least that is what I think he said.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:14 pm 
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He may well be right.

Another 15000 white farmers who decided to move in 1836 lost a lot. Then gained a lot. Their descendants are on the verge of losing all_, today.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
He may well be right.

Another 15000 white farmers who decided to move in 1836 lost a lot. Then gained a lot. Their descendants are on the verge of losing all_, today.


I don't think that's based on them being White, it's just another country that's going down the toilet.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 pm 
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We have 15000 farmers hanging around? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:21 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
We have 15000 farmers hanging around? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Probably counted each woman, child and dog.

Money making scheme, to my and.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:39 pm 
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assfly wrote:
https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1974673/russia-is-considering-taking-in-15-000-white-farmers/

Quality journalism :uhoh:


Yeah; not a lot of details. Same basic story repeated over multiple news sites.

I wish those that do go well. It's not going to be easy for them. I think Russia will be quite a culture shock.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Blake wrote:
assfly wrote:
https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1974673/russia-is-considering-taking-in-15-000-white-farmers/

Quality journalism :uhoh:


Yeah; not a lot of details. Same basic story repeated over multiple news sites.

I wish those that do go well. It's not going to be easy for them. I think Russia will be quite a culture shock.

Who the fvck would want to farm in Russia?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Chilli wrote:
Blake wrote:
assfly wrote:
https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1974673/russia-is-considering-taking-in-15-000-white-farmers/

Quality journalism :uhoh:


Yeah; not a lot of details. Same basic story repeated over multiple news sites.

I wish those that do go well. It's not going to be easy for them. I think Russia will be quite a culture shock.

Who the fvck would want to farm in Russia?



Somebody who cannot farm in South Africa ?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Chilli wrote:
Blake wrote:
assfly wrote:
https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1974673/russia-is-considering-taking-in-15-000-white-farmers/

Quality journalism :uhoh:


Yeah; not a lot of details. Same basic story repeated over multiple news sites.

I wish those that do go well. It's not going to be easy for them. I think Russia will be quite a culture shock.

Who the fvck would want to farm in Russia?



Somebody who cannot farm in South Africa ?

Or somebody who just wants to get out of the Free State, and who can blame them
.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:49 pm 
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:lol:

Johann Goosen ?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Not Michael?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:10 pm 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:30 am 
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ttps://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... s-20180805

Quote:
Three former National Party ministers, including strongman Magnus Malan and one who is still alive, have been named as central figures in a paedophilia ring that operated during apartheid.

Investigations into Malan, former apartheid minister of defence, as well as John Wiley, minister of environmental affairs and another minister, who was considered a possible successor to then president PW Botha and who is still alive, were halted by the police and the investigating officer hounded from service in the 1980s.

These and other explosive allegations are contained in The Lost Boys of Bird Island, a book by former policeman Mark Minnie and ex-journalist Chris Steyn, which hits the shelves on Sunday.

The three were involved, along with disgraced Port Elizabeth businessman John Allen, in ferrying coloured minors to Bird Island in Algoa Bay near Port Elizabeth where the children were molested and forced to satisfy the older men’s sexual fantasies. Malan died in 2011, while Wiley and Allen both officially committed suicide in 1987. The third minister is believed to have had a holiday home in the Eastern Cape, was a senior member of Cabinet and considered a front-runner to take over the reins from Botha. His identity was withheld by the publishers based on legal advice.

One child was maimed when a gun was thrust up his anus and the trigger pulled. He was transported by helicopter to a local hospital and treated under guard.

The book's commissioning editor Maryna Lamprecht, from Tafelberg Publishers, says the story is important because it further exposes the depravity of the apartheid system. "It dehumanised people in every possible way, even to the point of exploiting vulnerable children sexually to satisfy the needs of powerful politicians."

Read an extract from the book: We called him 'Ore'

The book claims that Malan, who was called "Ore" (Afrikaans for ears), commandeered air force helicopters to take him, his friends and the children to the island, sometimes for days. It also places Malan lying in a bathtub in a rented flat in the city where a young boy was also sexually assaulted.

Minnie was a detective at the police’s narcotics bureau in Port Elizabeth in the 1980s when he came across allegations that children were recruited by Allen, a local environmentalist, diver and businessman, to perform sex acts on him and the politicians. Steyn was a journalist at the Cape Times who investigated the apparent suicide of Wiley, the only English-speaking member of Botha’s cabinet and a colourful socialite in Cape Town. Allen was found with a single gunshot to the head on a beach outside Port Elizabeth after he missed a court appearance in connection with the possession of pornography. Wiley was found dead in his home in Noordhoek, near Cape Town, shortly after.

Both Minnie and Steyn were not convinced that Allen and Wiley committed suicide and believed that there was a conspiracy from the highest levels of government to prevent information linking National Party luminaries to paedophilia from leaking out. Minnie was intimidated and forced to resign from the police while Steyn’s full investigations were never published by the Cape Times.

Steyn confronted Malan in later years at his home, but the former head of the army and defence force who helped devise Botha’s "total strategy" against the liberation movements would merely respond with: "What is a paedophile?"

Read the book editor's notes: Nothing more that can shock us... or so we thought

* The Lost Boys of Bird Island, by Mark Minnie and Chris Steyn, is published by Tafelberg Publishers and retails for R280. It is available from today.


Fvcking Hell! x(


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:12 pm 
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There were rumours, those days. But nobody took too much risk with the then State Security Police...

Filthy buggers.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Chicken runners got beaten by UK gangsters
S24
Quote:
SA cricket duo beaten by thugs in brutal UK attack

Cape Town - Two South African cricketers were seriously injured after being attacked by a gang of thugs in England late last month.

According to The Oldham Times, amateur player Justin Watson (20) and professional Marques Ackerman (22) were attacked on a street in Oldham after leaving a nightclub in the early hours of Friday, July 27.

Captain and acting chairperson of the Shaw Cricket Club, Steve Whiston, told the English publication that the pair were on their way home when they were "jumped" by seven men and badly beaten.

Watson was reportedly punched repeatedly in the face and head by three of the gang, leaving him with two fractures to his jaw. He was taken to hospital where he was due to have surgery to have a plate inserted in his jaw.

The report added that Ackermann was hit from behind and was knocked unconscious as he hit the ground. He has since left hospital, but suffered severe concussion.

Watson, who represented Gauteng as a junior player, has been ruled out for the rest of the English season. He had an eye on playing professionally in England and was on trial at several counties.

Ackermann, a former South African under-19 player, has played 21 first class matches and represented local teams like the Lions, North West and KwaZulu-Natal.

A spokesperson for Greater Manchester Police said a 27-year-old man was arrested following the incident on suspicion of section 47 assault and has been released under investigation.


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