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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:45 am 
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Given the wide scale food fraud that eminated from Ireland not so long ago with horse meet being found in lasagnes and burgers this is the perfect time for far more stringent checks for the stuff coming out of there. Rest of EU probably fancy doing the same tbh


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:46 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Todays speech by Barnier. Despite what Army said above, it will be this way, or a hard brexit.

Quote:
Ladies and gentlemen,

On 29 March 2019, in less than 6 months, the UK will leave the European Union.

We have always respected the UK's sovereign decision to leave the European Union, even if we profoundly regret this vote We respect its decision to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union.

And we are doing our best to reach a deal on the UK's orderly withdrawal.

Since the beginning of this negotiation, we have made good progress.

In fact, as you can see in this copy of the draft Treaty, a lot of the Withdrawal Agreement – 80%-85% – has now been agreed with the UK.

However, some difficult issues have been left until the end.

We must agree on the governance of the Withdrawal Agreement and on geographical indications that are currently protected in the 28 EU Member States.

Above all, we need to agree on how to avoid a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland for political, human, and economic reasons.

Ladies and gentlemen,

The UK wants to and will leave the Single Market and the Customs Union.

This means that there must be checks on goods travelling between the EU and the UK – checks that do not exist today:

customs and VAT checks;
and compliance checks with our standards to protect our consumers, our economic traders and your businesses.
We have agreed with the UK that these checks cannot be performed at the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

A crucial question is, therefore, where they will take place.

The EU is committed to respecting the territorial integrity and constitutional order of the UK, just like the UK has committed to respecting the integrity of our Single Market, including Ireland, obviously.

Therefore, the EU proposes to carry out these checks in the least intrusive way possible.

For customs and VAT checks, we propose using the existing customs transit procedures to avoid doing checks at a physical border point. To be more specific:

o Companies in the rest of the UK would fill in their customs declarations online and in advance when shipping goods to Northern Ireland.

o The only visible systematic checks between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK would involve scanning the bar codes of the lorries or containers, which could be done on ferries or in transit ports.

o These arrangements already exist within EU Member States, in particular those with islands, for example between mainland Spain and the Canary Islands.

For regulatory checks, on industrial goods for instance, these could be carried out by market surveillance authorities.

Again, this would not need to happen at a border but directly in the market or at the premises of companies in Northern Ireland.

This leaves the health and phytosanitary checks for live animals and products of animal origin. EU rules are clear: such checks must happen at the border because of food safety and animal health reasons. And obviously, in the future the island of Ireland will and must remain a single epidemiologic area.

o Such checks already exist in the ports of Larne and Belfast.

o However they would have to cover 100 % rather than 10 % of live animals and animal-derived products, which would involve a significant change in terms of scale.

Ladies and gentlemen,

Both the EU and the UK exclude having a physical border on the island of Ireland. Therefore what will arrive into Northern Ireland will also be arriving into the Single Market.

There will be administrative procedures that do not exist today for goods travelling to Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK. Our challenge is to make sure those procedures are as easy as possible and not too burdensome, in particular for smaller businesses.

I understand why such procedures are politically sensitive, but let me make three remarks.

First, Brexit was not our choice. It is the choice of the UK. Our proposal tries to help the UK in managing the negative fall-out of Brexit in Northern Ireland, in a way that respects the territorial integrity of the UK.

Second, our proposal limits itself to what is absolutely necessary to avoid a hard border: customs procedures and the respect of EU standards for products.

It does not include measures on free movement of people, services, healthcare or social and environmental policy. But the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland will continue as today.

And yet, our proposal gives Northern Ireland benefits that no part of a third country enjoys. In particular continued access to the Single Market for goods and continued benefits from the EU free trade agreements.

Our proposal also includes the continuation of the island's Single Electricity Market, as requested by the UK.

Over the past week, we have met the leaders of all Northern Irish political parties – many of whom I have met before, and many of whom I will meet again. My door is always open. And my team met on Monday a group of Northern Irish business leaders and a group representing local government.

Naturally, there were questions, doubts and worries about our proposal – and Brexit in general.

But most conversations focused on the added value for Northern Ireland so long as we can mitigate the burden of doing checks.

Third, our proposal is just a safety net, a "backstop".

It is needed because the details of the future relationship will only be negotiated after the UK's withdrawal.

But the future relation in itself might mitigate the necessary checks, or even make some unnecessary:

o For instance, a veterinary agreement would mean less frequent inspections of live animals.

o And we are still open to the idea of having a customs union with the UK. Such a customs union would eliminate an important part of custom checks.

Ladies and gentlemen,

Apart from the issue of Ireland and Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement will include other important issues, on which we already agreed with the UK.

These issues are important for your businesses, your employees and your regions.

In particular, we already agreed that:

European citizens who arrived in the UK before the end of 2020 and British citizens who moved to other EU countries before that date can continue to live their lives as before. We remain in close contact with the organisations representing the citizens concerned, most notably to discuss the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement.

All financial commitments undertaken by the 28 EU Member States will be honoured by the 28, for instance on the European Social Fund and the regional policy. All current programmes will continue, with the UKs participation.

The UK will retain all the rights and obligations of a Member State for a transition period, until the end of 2020, at its request.

This will leave time for businesses to prepare.

And this will leave time to finalise the future relationship.

To be clear, all these points will enter into force on the condition that we agree on the whole Withdrawal Agreement, which must then be ratified, I hope in the beginning of next year by the UK and by the European Parliament.


http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SP ... 089_en.htm

Quote:
The UK wants to and will leave the Single Market and the Customs Union.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:50 am 
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I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

We used to have some... like 27 of them as I remember. Then the UK started with the nazi and Soviet gags, because Doris couldn't have his cake and eat it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:51 am 
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I am not sure why they are still considering an extension till the end of 2020. It seems a bit pointless.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:51 am 
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sewa wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/


There is not a chance in hell you are getting EU subsidies after the transition period. You should have thought about that before you ticked the box

I doubt they'll get anything from Westminster too, being as the coffers will be dry. Still, they could have access to the single market, if they chose to be sensible.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:58 am 
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Lorthern Nights wrote:
Given the wide scale food fraud that eminated from Ireland not so long ago with horse meet being found in lasagnes and burgers this is the perfect time for far more stringent checks for the stuff coming out of there. Rest of EU probably fancy doing the same tbh


You mean the food fraud that was discovered by the FSAI? It was a problem across Europe but we were the only ones who bothered checking properly. Anyhow as usual you double down on the stupidity by claiming there will be more checks on goods from Ireland.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:59 am 
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I doubt they'll get anything from Westminster too, being as the coffers will be dry.


I have to say the cost of Brexit so far + ending austerity + slowing down of economic growth all sounds as if this will be the case.

Hopefully the "Brexit dividend" will help... :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 am 
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clementinfrance wrote:
Quote:
I doubt they'll get anything from Westminster too, being as the coffers will be dry.


I have to say the cost of Brexit so far + ending austerity + slowing down of economic growth all sounds as if this will be the case.

Hopefully the "Brexit dividend" will help... :roll:

Fcek off the £350m a week is earmarked for the NHS.
Thats what Brexit was about.

Well that and xenophobia, blue passports and taking back control iirc


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:13 am 
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c69 wrote:
clementinfrance wrote:
Quote:
I doubt they'll get anything from Westminster too, being as the coffers will be dry.


I have to say the cost of Brexit so far + ending austerity + slowing down of economic growth all sounds as if this will be the case.

Hopefully the "Brexit dividend" will help... :roll:

Fcek off the £350m a week is earmarked for the NHS.
Thats what Brexit was about.

Well that and xenophobia, blue passports and taking back control iirc


No need. That will be outsourced to the US soon :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:16 am 
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This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am 
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EU considering dual certification of goods produced in NI.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/

The other interesting little snippet is that 60% of goods moving to and from NI from GB use Dublin port, and not a NI port.

So that checking will be done in Dublin for goods coming from, or going to NI.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:25 am 
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sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...

I think that would be a good thing.

There would be a sort of ironical Karma to the decades the UK subsequently had to endure under Junker's Jackboot and the vassal state inter-regnum that ensued. Would Arlene become the new Wilberforce?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:26 am 
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.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:34 am 
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sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 am 
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shereblue wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...

I think that would be a good thing.

There would be a sort of ironical Karma to the decades the UK subsequently had to endure under Junker's Jackboot and the vassal state inter-regnum that ensued. Would Arlene become the new Wilberforce?


Lol you Iroids. Is there no end to your victimhood?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:48 am 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/

Talk about having your cake!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:52 am 
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c69 wrote:
clementinfrance wrote:
Quote:
I doubt they'll get anything from Westminster too, being as the coffers will be dry.


I have to say the cost of Brexit so far + ending austerity + slowing down of economic growth all sounds as if this will be the case.

Hopefully the "Brexit dividend" will help... :roll:

Fcek off the £350m a week is earmarked for the NHS.
Thats what Brexit was about.

Well that and xenophobia, blue passports and taking back control iirc

In fairness the Blue passports were not mentioned during the campaigns and are more of a Brucey Bonus.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:52 am 
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Brazil wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...

Without knowledge, there can be no proper analysis though...........


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:52 am 
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sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


British and Irish Empire, thank you very much. I think you do your great country a disservice by overlooking the crucial role you proudly played, shoulder to shoulder with the British in creating and maintaining imperial rule around the world.


Last edited by S Club on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:53 am 
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Leffe wrote:
c69 wrote:
clementinfrance wrote:
Quote:
I doubt they'll get anything from Westminster too, being as the coffers will be dry.


I have to say the cost of Brexit so far + ending austerity + slowing down of economic growth all sounds as if this will be the case.

Hopefully the "Brexit dividend" will help... :roll:

Fcek off the £350m a week is earmarked for the NHS.
Thats what Brexit was about.

Well that and xenophobia, blue passports and taking back control iirc

In fairness the Blue passports were not mentioned during the campaigns and are more of a Brucey Bonus.


Indeed, and we are grateful for it 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:53 am 
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feckwanker wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/

Talk about having your cake!


The dosey bollix forgot that all those lovely European cheques would stop when he ticked the box, talk about shooting yourself in the foot


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:54 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Brazil wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...

Without knowledge, there can be no proper analysis though...........


It doesn't need to be a beat-up of national history to suit a political agenda, which is what the Dear Leader is proposing. It's also a myth that all we ever learn in history is a jingoistic palimpsest of the Empire. We've got the Mail, Express and Sun for that.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:55 am 
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sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...

That would be a terrible move by the British ruling classes as it might lead the working classes to understand the grave injustices towards them today. And we simply wouldn't want to stop the posh lads eating not only their own, but other people's cake.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:57 am 
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Brazil wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Brazil wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...

Without knowledge, there can be no proper analysis though...........


It doesn't need to be a beat-up of national history to suit a political agenda, which is what the Dear Leader is proposing. It's also a myth that all we ever learn in history is a jingoistic palimpsest of the Empire. We've got the Mail, Express and Sun for that.

Actually, have you read the mail in the last while? It's changed quite dramatically.

(My sparky gets it before you start)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:57 am 
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feckwanker wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/

Talk about having your cake!

Just so long as it's not a Bert and Ernie ghay cake... ironically the type the EU would support and the DUP not.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:58 am 
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happyhooker wrote:
Brazil wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Brazil wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...

Without knowledge, there can be no proper analysis though...........


It doesn't need to be a beat-up of national history to suit a political agenda, which is what the Dear Leader is proposing. It's also a myth that all we ever learn in history is a jingoistic palimpsest of the Empire. We've got the Mail, Express and Sun for that.

Actually, have you read the mail in the last while? It's changed quite dramatically.

(My sparky gets it before you start)


Good save. I avoid it like the plague, but apocryphal indications via Private Eye would suggest that the new Editor is a bit more progressive than Dacre. Not that that's difficult.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:04 am 
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Brazil wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Brazil wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...

Without knowledge, there can be no proper analysis though...........


It doesn't need to be a beat-up of national history to suit a political agenda, which is what the Dear Leader is proposing. It's also a myth that all we ever learn in history is a jingoistic palimpsest of the Empire. We've got the Mail, Express and Sun for that.

I was looking at a programme on BBC 4 last night on the Duke of Wellington whose premise seemed to be that he wasn't a real Irishman at all,at all, base on the famous "born in a stable" remarks which they attributed to him.

In reality they were made by O'Connell as a way of insulting Wellington, which would indicate the opposite of that BBC premise, ie that Wellington very much considered himself Irish, otherwise why the insult ?

Incidentally they had Richard Grant voicing Wellington in some sort of plummy English public school accent, whilst the actress voicing his wife, a Pakenham from Longford, did so with a not so delightful 'Oirish' lilt in her accent.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:18 am 
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sewa wrote:
feckwanker wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/

Talk about having your cake!


The dosey bollix forgot that all those lovely European cheques would stop when he ticked the box, talk about shooting yourself in the foot



I actually voted remain, 'you dosey bollix'.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 am 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
sewa wrote:

The dosey bollix forgot that all those lovely European cheques would stop when he ticked the box, talk about shooting yourself in the foot



I actually voted remain, 'you dosey bollix'.


I am pretty sure you said the opposite here previously. Schrodingers brexiteer perhaps. I can't be arsed going through thousands of posts to find out, anyhow moving on

https://twitter.com/KarimPalant/status/1050130621689937924

@KarimPalant
Follow Follow @KarimPalant
More
This is not a joke or an exasperated exhalation, just a statement of fact. We will be debating our trading relationship with the EU for the rest of our working lives. No matter how old you are reading this, that is our fate now


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/


Apart from the different laws that the DUP want of course, right?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:28 pm 
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So we're heading for Schrödinger's Brexit. I suggest we all go and do something more productive and perhaps reconvene in two years time to rehash these old arguments. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:32 pm 
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MrJonno wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/


Apart from the different laws that the DUP want of course, right?

Oh they only ever want to be close to the rest of the UK when it's convenient to them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:33 pm 
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MrJonno wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
I like haggis wrote:
Arlene Foster has knifed Theresa May in the back now. That money to Northern Ireland is looking exceptional value for the Tories.

"Friends and allies" indeed.

They haven't done anything yet.

It's a warning shot, it's how NI parties negotiate, the most stubborn bastards in the world. It's why there is no Stormont at the minute.

I wouldn't mind if they agreed to something close to those outlined in the RTE news thing, as long as travelling through the Larne/Cairnryan, Belfast/Cairnryan ports doesn't require about upteen amounts of paperwork and checks on top of what there is currently. I think it can be very beneficial to those within NI and we could really flourish afterwards, manufacturing businesses in GB (for example) could begin to relocate some of their factories over here to gain direct access to both markets.

There should be some guarantees, if NI farmers have direct access to the EU and have to abide by their strict (and morally correct) farming practices, then NI farmers MUST be subsidised by the EU, & also with regards to NI that we don't have a complete different set of laws to the rest of the UK.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/101 ... it-border/


Apart from the different laws that the DUP want of course, right?



:lol: lovely


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:38 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Brazil wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Brazil wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


History should definitely be a means of inculcating the young with a sense of politically slanted historical shame, rather than helping develop analytical skills that will serve them well when, say, faced by a bearded career politician who thinks everyone should think the way him and his mates do...

Without knowledge, there can be no proper analysis though...........


It doesn't need to be a beat-up of national history to suit a political agenda, which is what the Dear Leader is proposing. It's also a myth that all we ever learn in history is a jingoistic palimpsest of the Empire. We've got the Mail, Express and Sun for that.

I was looking at a programme on BBC 4 last night on the Duke of Wellington whose premise seemed to be that he wasn't a real Irishman at all,at all, base on the famous "born in a stable" remarks which they attributed to him.

In reality they were made by O'Connell as a way of insulting Wellington, which would indicate the opposite of that BBC premise, ie that Wellington very much considered himself Irish, otherwise why the insult ?

Incidentally they had Richard Grant voicing Wellington in some sort of plummy English public school accent, whilst the actress voicing his wife, a Pakenham from Longford, did so with a not so delightful 'Oirish' lilt in her accent.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just as an aside, Richard E. Grant was educated alongside my cousin in Swaziland as Richard Grant Esterhuysen; I think you could say that his plummy accent is less than authentic.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:49 pm 
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S Club wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


British and Irish Empire, thank you very much. I think you do your great country a disservice by overlooking the crucial role you proudly played, shoulder to shoulder with the British in creating and maintaining imperial rule around the world.


Plenty of shit committed by the British Empire involved participation of Irish subjects. It's definitely something that's glossed over and should be more widely taught. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:57 pm 
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This is an interesting summary of how things could play out over the next few months:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/10 ... -of-brexit


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Brazil wrote:
(My sparky gets it before you start)


Good save. I avoid it like the plague, but apocryphal indications via Private Eye would suggest that the new Editor is a bit more progressive than Dacre. Not that that's difficult.[/quote]

Come on Braz, I bet you have a sneaky look at it when waiting for your haircut. It's usually a choice between The Mail, Sun or Loaded/FHM


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:02 pm 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-public-finances-worse-than-gambia-uganda-kenya-imf-report-a8577671.html

Britain's public finances worse than Gambia, Uganda and Kenya, because of privatisation, IMF finds
Bank bailouts, rising pension liabilities and sell-off of public assets have wiped £1 trillion off UK’s net wealth, study suggests


Britain’s underlying public finances are among the worst in the world, behind the Gambia, Uganda and Kenya, a new study has concluded.

International Monetary Fund (IMF) economists found that £1 trillion had been wiped off UK public sector net wealth since the 2008 financial crisis, largely thanks to bank bailouts and increasing pension liabilities.

The IMF looked at the assets and liabilities of 31 countries and found the UK was in a worse position than every other country apart from Portugal.

This surprising conclusion came from using a different approach to the public finances to the one favoured by the government.

Rather than looking at each country’s debt and the deficit – a government’s income minus its expenditure – the IMF’s approach takes into account the benefit of assets such as publicly owned corporations and natural resources. These figures more closely resemble a company’s balance sheet.

The IMF said the cost of bailing out banks had been a significant factor dragging the UK down the rankings. The UK also has one of the largest pension liabilities of any nation in the study but is towards the bottom of the pile when it comes to public assets.

Using the public sector balance sheet method, countries such as Gambia, Uganda and Kenya rank above the UK because, while they have smaller assets and liabilities than Britain, they have a higher net wealth relative to GDP.

The IMF’s report takes particular aim at the privatisation of public assets, the benefits of which it says are often merely an “illusion”.

The UK has undergone one of the most drastic privatisations of any economy since the early 1980s.

Under the Conservative government since 2015, policy has gone a stage further, incentivising departments and local authorities to sell off assets to fund day-to-day spending under the premise that such an approach is necessary to cut the deficit.

But the IMF economists said the tendency of governments to focus on debt “misses large swaths of government activity and can fall victim to illusory fiscal practices”.

When public assets are taken into account, selling a public utility, for example, may do nothing to improve the public finances, the IMF said.

“For instance, privatisations increase revenue and lower deficits but also reduce the government’s asset holdings,” the report stated.

“Similarly, cutting back maintenance expenditure reduces the deficit and lowers debt, but also reduces the value of infrastructure assets, which could cost more in the long term.”

In this view, Labour’s proposal to renationalise railway franchises and water companies would not, as the Conservatives have claimed, cost hundreds of billions of pounds.

The government would merely create debt on the liability side of the balance sheet while gaining an asset of the corresponding value, resulting in a net cost of zero.

The asset in turn has the potential to generate future income. For example, privatised water companies paid £6.5bn in dividends and interest to shareholders over the last five years, according to data compiled by the GMB union.

The IMF also warned on Tuesday that Brexit is among the primary risks to global economic stability.

The Washington-based organisation urged financial institutions to “step up their preparations for a post-Brexit landscape”, including for a no-deal scenario.

It warned that concerns about a no-deal Brexit appear to have increased, driving volatility in the pound and suppressing company valuations.

The IMF pointed to “growing anxiety” that Brexit negotiations could break down, increasing uncertainty in the UK and beyond, potentially triggering a “sharp tightening of global financial conditions”.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
S Club wrote:
sewa wrote:
This looks a good read, my free articles are used up so if anyone cares to paste in the rest :thumbup:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/10/jeremy-corbyn-says-schools-should-teach-children-grave-injustices/

School children should be taught about the “grave injustices” of the British Empire, Jeremy Corbyn will say on Thursday, prompting a furious response from Tory politicians.

The Labour leader will announce plans to improve the teaching of black British history and the history of the British Empire, colonialism and slavery “to help ensure their legacy is more widely understood across the country”.

Mr Corbyn will outline Labour’s plans to support a new Emancipation Educational Trust, aimed at educating future generations about slavery and the struggle for emancipation.

The trust will tell the story of "how slavery interrupted a rich African and black history", delivering school programmes for young...


British and Irish Empire, thank you very much. I think you do your great country a disservice by overlooking the crucial role you proudly played, shoulder to shoulder with the British in creating and maintaining imperial rule around the world.


Plenty of shit committed by the British Empire involved participation of Irish subjects. It's definitely something that's glossed over and should be more widely taught. :thumbup:


I wonder if the Portugal, Spain, Benin and Nigeria and modern day Arab states tie themselves in knots over their historical involvement in the slave trade?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:09 pm 
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do Uganda, Kenya etc even have pensions ?
interesting that the article only shows the pension as a liability - what about the asset side such as the pension provider (at least some of whom would be british owned companies, predominatly invested in Uk assets including UK gilts) or the asset that retired UK pensioners receive an income and can spend it on Blue Rinse, denture cream and Bingo ?

pension deficits will naturally be worse for a country where life expectancy is higher, as well as peoples sense of entitlement that the state should provide. the sooner a Uk govt sets about properly funding peoples old age, such as Australians enforced superannuation scheme, the better. Alternatively, just stop providing a state pension at all & the hideous cost.

I do agree that the selling off of state assets has gone on way too long, and at too much long term costs - not so much the privitisation of utilities things, but schools selling their playing fields type.


Last edited by backrow on Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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