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 Post subject: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:25 am 
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pretty much copied the OP from the BF1 thread, doubt there will be many newcomers to the game.
if you want your gaming ID added, please add a post and I will update the OP.




all below are PS4 unless shown

PSN ID = Lekker_Pom

Feckwanker = somedose


Nolanator: Oscilulu (GOT BEATEN BY TAE !!!!!!!! Uber-lolz)

ulsters Red Proddy Hand - timg897



Normilet = Normilet89

Pole = Kgbrookie

Stevus55 = Dermot_Trellis

Maxbox Cobus = drcerebalpalsy

some old guy who isn't very good and gets his own ID wrong = swissguy_75

Tae = taeland (made nols ragequit even though he can’t go through doors or hit barn doors)

Houtkabouter : Duli

XBOX ONE :lol:
Sissyfuss

crash 12 (Xbox lolz so dunno who he is going to play with) - shadowfax8575

Houtkabouter - : Piehammer


Last edited by backrow on Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:29 am 
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my first thoughts on this game:

very pretty
far less recoil than in previous games, so feels much more like Unreal tournament
confusing progression tree for the characters & weapons
new spotting system takes LOTS of getting used to, so be prepared to be killed by some bugger you just never even saw because he didn't have a red highlight
nice wide doorways (this may benefit certain players..)
animation seems more jerky and floaty than BF1, and added to the fact there are a lot of spelling errors and certain bits saying 'coming in Dec' means the game does feel rushed. no glaring bugs that I found immediately however.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:30 am 
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I just posted in the BF1 thread. C$P'd here...


Saw you were on last night, Norm.

What do people think? I enjoyed my couple of hours last night. The French maps look absolutely gorgeous. I'll probably whizz through the War Stories over the weekend just to get them done.

Didn't realise what I was doing when I was selecting the six BF veteran skin sets and managed to chose a couple of shit ones. I also changed all my characters to men, FW should approve!


I'd forgotten what it's like playing on a map for the first time. First round I played was defending Hamada on Ops and go so completely disoriented that I didn't know what direction the enemies were coming from at the start.
Yeeb had trouble figuring out what we were supposed to be doing a couple of times. The way that Ops changes between modes was too much for him. :nod:


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:31 am 
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Location: Spiritual Guardianland
Still Downloading...

:((


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:35 am 
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Gonna get the standard edition when it comes out.

Pretty annoyed that people will have already had the game for a week and will have a pretty big advantage when playing multiplayer.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:45 am 
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Newsome wrote:
Gonna get the standard edition when it comes out.

Pretty annoyed that people will have already had the game for a week and will have a pretty big advantage when playing multiplayer.


What platform? If you're PS4, then us saddos who forked out extra will only have had an extra weekend of unlocking stuff.

There are people on PC/Xbox who have already hit max rank. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:54 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
I just posted in the BF1 thread. C$P'd here...


Saw you were on last night, Norm.

What do people think? I enjoyed my couple of hours last night. The French maps look absolutely gorgeous. I'll probably whizz through the War Stories over the weekend just to get them done.

Didn't realise what I was doing when I was selecting the six BF veteran skin sets and managed to chose a couple of shit ones. I also changed all my characters to men, FW should approve!


I'd forgotten what it's like playing on a map for the first time. First round I played was defending Hamada on Ops and go so completely disoriented that I didn't know what direction the enemies were coming from at the start.
Yeeb had trouble figuring out what we were supposed to be doing a couple of times. The way that Ops changes between modes was too much for him. :nod:


I was indeed, was trying to familiarize myself a little bit.

Sniping is as fun as I remember from the Beta. I also fell for the BF veteran thing, picked the wrong skins.

Progression tree is really quite confusing, as is the grand ops set up, so Yeeb isn't alone there ha.

I'm equally as shit at flying in this as I was in BF1, I'm beginning to think I might be the problem.

Oh and for the first round I forgot to change the aim sensitivity from the default 20% to what I'm more comfortable with. Felt like I was trying to move through treacle or something.


Last edited by normilet on Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:55 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Newsome wrote:
Gonna get the standard edition when it comes out.

Pretty annoyed that people will have already had the game for a week and will have a pretty big advantage when playing multiplayer.


What platform? If you're PS4, then us saddos who forked out extra will only have had an extra weekend of unlocking stuff.

There are people on PC/Xbox who have already hit max rank. :lol:


matey, there was a Ju88 crashed on that mountain level that we could get in and fire some shots - that is the top level axis aircraft currently avail !
I also saw Blenheims on the bridge level which are several ranks in.
how on earth did someone get there so fast on ps4 ??

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:58 am 
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normilet wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
I just posted in the BF1 thread. C$P'd here...


Saw you were on last night, Norm.

What do people think? I enjoyed my couple of hours last night. The French maps look absolutely gorgeous. I'll probably whizz through the War Stories over the weekend just to get them done.

Didn't realise what I was doing when I was selecting the six BF veteran skin sets and managed to chose a couple of shit ones. I also changed all my characters to men, FW should approve!


I'd forgotten what it's like playing on a map for the first time. First round I played was defending Hamada on Ops and go so completely disoriented that I didn't know what direction the enemies were coming from at the start.
Yeeb had trouble figuring out what we were supposed to be doing a couple of times. The way that Ops changes between modes was too much for him. :nod:


I was indeed, was trying to familiarize myself a little bit.

Sniping is as fun as I remember from the Beta. I also fell for the BF veteran thing, picked the wrong skins.

Progression tree is really quite confusing, as is the grand ops set up, so Yeeb isn't alone there ha.

I'm equally as shit at flying in this as I was in BF1, I'm beginning to think I might be the problem.


norm - turn your aircraft sensitivity right up so you can pull out of dives easier, and always fly in 3rd person, dont' even try to aim the bombs or the guns, just get a 'feel' for when to bomb to hit baddies.

you will pretty soon get to know when to skiptoss drop your bombs as you pull out of a strafing dive, without especially aiming. true, its easier at BF1 aircraft speeds than in a spitfire, bit I'm sure you will get the hang unless you truly are "Tae of the Skies"


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Newsome wrote:
Gonna get the standard edition when it comes out.

Pretty annoyed that people will have already had the game for a week and will have a pretty big advantage when playing multiplayer.


What platform? If you're PS4, then us saddos who forked out extra will only have had an extra weekend of unlocking stuff.

There are people on PC/Xbox who have already hit max rank. :lol:


PS4.

I have a mate who bought the delux version (PS4) and has been playing since Tuesday or Wednesday.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:17 pm 
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What is your PSN then ?


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:22 pm 
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I only used two of my six weathered veteran skins - so I can save messing around with my battleworn four skins later.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Gonna get this on Tuesday.

Looking forward to it. Had planned on buying RDR2 but don’t think I’ll have time for that at the minute.

Seems like the multiplayer is getting good reviews


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:56 pm 
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I'd better keep the Mrs sweet and finish RDR2 first. Looking forward to this though.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:41 am 
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backrow wrote:
What is your PSN then ?


Not sure. Will take a look and update. Thing is I'm in China so I'm usually playing with the japs or the arabs. We're all about that banzai broad front attack :nod:


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:59 am 
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Norm, sorry I missed ye - was giving kids bath, by the time I accepted your invite it seemed you had gone.

still not sure about this game, still feels too 'floaty' and the bigger Africa maps just become sniper-fests, trying to play another class is almost pointless.
Rotterdam maps also become like Fort Faux, just choke points of people spamming panzerfausts and LMG fire.
Like the more varied dutch and French and Norway maps, but again it seems snipers are ruling the roost here and the new spotting mechanic seems to encourage Camper-pussies.

did the first single player story, utter Politically-correct bullshit, am not surprised they didn't base it on Morrocan Tiraliers !


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate


finding all those letters is a pain, I got 1/6


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 pm 
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Played just under a couple of hours of multi player tonight.

Enjoying it so far, only played conquest so far and about 95% as support.

Don’t understand all the customisations and things but the game it’s self is fun.

All positive so far for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:21 am 
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Hoping to get a good few hours in this eve from about 18:00 GMT onwards. Enjoying it, but the TTK is still a little bit jarring.

Handy trick if you want to rank up Medic but think the guns are sh*t, you can just pick up any random gun lying around and still keep your medic gadgets, and it will still count towards ranking up that gun too. Noticeable divergence from the old way of picking up the entire kit of someone you've killed.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:36 am 
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Hate it. Looks and feels like call of duty. Movement too fast and unrealistic.

Hate the Lee Enfield. Hate the stupid support gun. Hate the maps.

Battlefield 1 rules ok!


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:02 am 
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Sissyfuss wrote:
Hate it. Looks and feels like call of duty. Movement too fast and unrealistic.

Hate the Lee Enfield. Hate the stupid support gun. Hate the maps.

Battlefield 1 rules ok!


If you had to name even one thing you like about the game, what would it be?


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:07 am 
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I'll hopefully get a few hours on tonight. :thumbup:

I've had a few Marmite games. Mostly enjoy it, but a couple of rounds I've been utter shit and really not had a good time.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:08 am 
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must admit, am a tad disappointed so far, Negative points are:

1. Gameplay just feels too 'floaty' whereas Bf1 you could feel your head bob when you run, slightly slower running speed if wielding a big gun etc. the 'getting knocked backwards' thing is way too smooth
2. time to kill just seems bonkers fast, at least in Bf1 it was only a close range shotgun or automatic, or long range sniper that would instantly wipe you out
3. Sniping - just too many +55 damage hits, I'm used to one-shotting muthafukas
4. Planes bombing runs, seem almost pointless, I was pretty lethal at it in bf1, and am now shite - I get lots of hits and damage, but bugger all kills.
5. the Africa maps are awful, trying to get to a flag where there is no cover is shite
6. I have almost zero idea whats going on with the progression stuff, apart from the vehicles one where the 'tree' is quite clear
7. the assignments can be a bit baffling - 'as an allied soldier, get 2000 damage whilst prone on a capture point on Breakthrough games' wtf ?
8. Melee & revive is annoying where you have to be in the right spot exactly to get the action you want.
9. ammo and health at bases is waaay too plentiful, no point in relying on squads to help you - there are lots of panzerfaust spamming occasions, especially on Rotterdam
10. tanks are ridiculously flimsy
11. building fortifications mostly seems to be shite and merely serves to waste your time and prevent you easily running back into battle
12. the in game indicators for kills, damage etc are bewildering - WHY did they change it from bf1 that was pretty intuitive ? WHY did they remove the KER_CHING of a kill headshot ?
13. the squad leader reinforcements / COD style killstreak bonus, are too shite and usually occur too near the end to be of any use or change the battle, completely UNLIKE the whole behemoth & sentry thing on Bf1 that actually balanced gameplay nicely especially if one team was shite and getting drilled.
14. the Trailleurs single player mission is shite, overly politically correct, you have to pick up random letters instead of war dairies, and the secret unlocks are onerous like 'don't get spotted until to get to the chateaux.' - I bought this game to shoot people, not stealthily crawl around ffs !

positive points
love the Norway maps & French / Belgian village with wheatfields maps
whole game is visually excellent
you start with decent enough guns
creating gay biker Freddie mercury circa 1982 lookilikes is quite funny
accents seem better - currently playing the 'cockney criminal turned SAS' single player mission, and thus far have not wanted to stab my ears out rather than listen to Dick Van Dyke level of awful accents.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:52 am 
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On point 3. I’m glad they went back to a more skill based sniping, I think the sweet spot mechanic in BF1 was a bit rubbish, at least now if you want to one shot someone you need to aim for the head and not just be the right distance from them.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:56 am 
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backrow wrote:
must admit, am a tad disappointed so far, Negative points are:

1. Gameplay just feels too 'floaty' whereas Bf1 you could feel your head bob when you run, slightly slower running speed if wielding a big gun etc. the 'getting knocked backwards' thing is way too smooth
2. time to kill just seems bonkers fast, at least in Bf1 it was only a close range shotgun or automatic, or long range sniper that would instantly wipe you out
3. Sniping - just too many +55 damage hits, I'm used to one-shotting muthafukas
4. Planes bombing runs, seem almost pointless, I was pretty lethal at it in bf1, and am now shite - I get lots of hits and damage, but bugger all kills.
5. the Africa maps are awful, trying to get to a flag where there is no cover is shite
6. I have almost zero idea whats going on with the progression stuff, apart from the vehicles one where the 'tree' is quite clear
7. the assignments can be a bit baffling - 'as an allied soldier, get 2000 damage whilst prone on a capture point on Breakthrough games' wtf ?
8. Melee & revive is annoying where you have to be in the right spot exactly to get the action you want.
9. ammo and health at bases is waaay too plentiful, no point in relying on squads to help you - there are lots of panzerfaust spamming occasions, especially on Rotterdam
10. tanks are ridiculously flimsy
11. building fortifications mostly seems to be shite and merely serves to waste your time and prevent you easily running back into battle
12. the in game indicators for kills, damage etc are bewildering - WHY did they change it from bf1 that was pretty intuitive ? WHY did they remove the KER_CHING of a kill headshot ?
13. the squad leader reinforcements / COD style killstreak bonus, are too shite and usually occur too near the end to be of any use or change the battle, completely UNLIKE the whole behemoth & sentry thing on Bf1 that actually balanced gameplay nicely especially if one team was shite and getting drilled.
14. the Trailleurs single player mission is shite, overly politically correct, you have to pick up random letters instead of war dairies, and the secret unlocks are onerous like 'don't get spotted until to get to the chateaux.' - I bought this game to shoot people, not stealthily crawl around ffs !

positive points
love the Norway maps & French / Belgian village with wheatfields maps
whole game is visually excellent
you start with decent enough guns
creating gay biker Freddie mercury circa 1982 lookilikes is quite funny
accents seem better - currently playing the 'cockney criminal turned SAS' single player mission, and thus far have not wanted to stab my ears out rather than listen to Dick Van Dyke level of awful accents.



Did you unlock the next sniper rifle? 70 something for a hit, getting a lot more kills now with the attrition system. Agree with newportblue below though, I'm preferring it, forces you to aim for the head.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:01 am 
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2: DICE knows that there's an issue with insta-deaths. Three bullets worth of damage arriving in a single frame, meaning you get no warning. Presumably they're working on it.

3: Aim for the head.

4: Lack of spotting means it's much harder to bomb enemies. Current meta is seemingly to hop in a bomber and bomb their gimme at the start of the round to get loads of kills.

6: Progression will take some getting used to. I think it's fundamentally good, in that you can choose how to tune your gun. More like the attachment system in BF4, rather than the preset variants of BF1.

7: DICE and pointless assignment tasks. Plus ca change....

9: Ammo and health is at a premium unless you stay around capture points. This forces players to PTFO. This is good, IMO.

12: What's the issue with indicators? Not like the little skull thing along the bottom? The colour coding is really helpful for headshots etc.

13: If we have a proper squad session and do well, we'll get the reinforcements earlier in the round. I like the changeup from the elites and behemoth system.


I'm not a fan of the airborne part of operations where you've to arm bombs.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:02 am 
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I have, haven't equipped it yet - am sorry but being forced to aim for the head just seems a bit daft, reasonably sure with ww2 era sniper rifles if you got hit in the chest, you were dead. At big distances ou just aim at the person as its pretty much a dot anyways.

my longest bf1 headshot was 365, not sure what bf longest one is as there doesn't seem to be a stats page.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:05 am 
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It's a game. In real life one bullet from an SMG incapacitates you and you don't run around on 75% health.

The whole point of this game is that there's more reward for becoming skillful with the weapons. Get good enough to nail headshots and you'll wreck people. The sweet spot rewarded mediocre shooting and didn't give any benefit to people who could consistently hit the head.

With 55 damage per bullet, it's still only a 2 hit kill.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:09 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
It's a game. In real life one bullet from an SMG incapacitates you and you don't run around on 75% health.

The whole point of this game is that there's more reward for becoming skillful with the weapons. Get good enough to nail headshots and you'll wreck people. The sweet spot rewarded mediocre shooting and didn't give any benefit to people who could consistently hit the head.

With 55 damage per bullet, it's still only a 2 hit kill.


doesn't make it fun though, like the MArtini Henry boomstick or tankgeweher one-shotting peeps

prefer the assault rifles or LMG's as a quick squirt from those at range with kill a camper sniper


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:16 am 
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Those were definitely satisfying to use.

Have you guys played around much with the guns you get after the first one? I've used the MG42 a bit. Ridiculous ROF, but you can only ADS when using the bipod. Impossible to control shooting from the hip, which is realistic TBF.

The Suomi is class for close quarters with the medic, but I think I still prefer the versatility of the sten. Haven't touched any other assault or sniper weapons.


The base weapons are already fully specced up, so moving to a new gun with very different handling and no buffs in terms of accuracy, ROF, etc is a challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:57 am 
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Definitely think the head shot mechinic is all about balancing. No one would use anything else if you could upper body one shot someone at any distance.

What are the medic semi auto rifles like? Seem to die a few times to the first one unlocked.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:49 pm 
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You seem to get killed way too quickly BFV.

I'm fair to middling enough on BF1, can usually get top 10 in Conquest with 16+ kills etc, I was just getting wiped out in a matter of seconds on the stupid Snowy / Mountain map last night. Couldnt even see the enemy. Couldnt figure out if the spitfires were killing me or not. It does not feel very polished.

I hated the Lee enfield.. the recoil was like a helium balloon, couldnt even tell if I hit the target or not, in BF1 it feels quite realistic. When you miss you can see by how much. On this thing its nothing short of a shite Call of Duty clone.

Even the maps are like something out of Scooby Doo. Compare Amiens to Rotterdam? It is not great is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Sissyfuss wrote:
You seem to get killed way too quickly BFV.

I'm fair to middling enough on BF1, can usually get top 10 in Conquest with 16+ kills etc, I was just getting wiped out in a matter of seconds on the stupid Snowy / Mountain map last night. Couldnt even see the enemy. Couldnt figure out if the spitfires were killing me or not. It does not feel very polished.

I hated the Lee enfield.. the recoil was like a helium balloon, couldnt even tell if I hit the target or not, in BF1 it feels quite realistic. When you miss you can see by how much. On this thing its nothing short of a shite Call of Duty clone.

Even the maps are like something out of Scooby Doo. Compare Amiens to Rotterdam? It is not great is it?



wrong login, Tae


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:08 pm 
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There are definitely some reused assets littered around the maps, particularly Rotterdam which has bits from Amiens.
That said, buildings in mainland Europe didn't really change much in style in the 20 years between the wars.

This game is nothing like COD, particularly the gun play.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
There are definitely some reused assets littered around the maps, particularly Rotterdam which has bits from Amiens.
That said, buildings in mainland Europe didn't really change much in style in the 20 years between the wars.

This game is nothing like COD, particularly the gun play.


disagree, the smooth moving & negligible recoil make run & gun feel very similar
same too with sniping, where bullet drop has reduced from bf1

add in the squad leader killstreaks thing & throwing knife, and overall its pretty COD-like tbf
(with a bit of Fortnight Fort-building thrown in)


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Zero recoil?


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:01 pm 
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The sten, first assault gun and the lmg all seem to have very low recoil compared to bf1


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Was discussing this with my brother the other day, it's not just TTK that's changed, its the engagement range. You can get killed very quickly from much further away, which takes some adjusting to. I've been putting a scope on my assault rifles just to have that extra few dozen meters advantage. And yes I suppose the recoil is very low, at least compared to BF1, still there to some extent though.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:44 pm 
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backrow wrote:
The sten, first assault gun and the lmg all seem to have very low recoil compared to bf1


They are fairly manageable, but you still have to counteract the recoil using the thumbstick. The first guns are also maxed out in terms of upgrades, so that's probably as good as it gets.

Have you used the Suomi or MG42 (2nd medic and supply guns). You gain lots in ROF, but it costs increased recoil as well as less ranged effectiveness and aiming down sight ability, respectively. I reckon the starting guns are chosen for their middle of the road-ness. Gets you into the game without a ridiculous learning curve.


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:52 pm 
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not tried them yet, no - only unlocked suomi last night and its stats seem blanket worse than sten, plus I didn't know what the full red bar on mg34 meant - I see it means you can only aim down the sight once bipod deployed, thanks Lt Commander Science Office Beouf de Pantalon :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Battlefield 5 thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
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Location: Pigdogistan
backrow wrote:
not tried them yet, no - only unlocked suomi last night and its stats seem blanket worse than sten, plus I didn't know what the full red bar on mg34 meant - I see it means you can only aim down the sight once bipod deployed, thanks Lt Commander Science Office Beouf de Pantalon :thumbup:


Except for ROF. All the coloured stats bars are worse than the Sten, but the rate of fire is a number just beneath that. I missed it the first time I compared the two.
Think the Sten is <600 rpm, but the Suomi is >800, ish. It's handy in tight spaces, but once you step outside, you're in trouble. Bit like the Autospaztico, now that I think about it.


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