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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:45 am 
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:49 am 
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brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government

PHIL Twyford is a total numpty


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:51 am 
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jono45 wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government

PHIL Twyford is a total numpty


and creepy, don't forget creepy.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:55 am 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
jono45 wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government

PHIL Twyford is a total numpty


and creepy, don't forget creepy.

:lol:

Spent a bit of time in Wanaka recently. Place is just crawling with baristas. Falling out of trees, they were.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:58 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
I know it’s ToR, it’s that I was alluding to really, in light of recent suggestions regarding the fleecing of the privileged.

Good name for a beer festival, that... Fleece the Privilege.


I'd go. Also a good name for a punk rock band. Fleece the Privilege could headline at the the festival and a local brewer could do a Fleece the Privilege IPA.

Re the ToR, it uses the word "fair" in several places. Which sounds great. Who wouldn't want that? Only problem is it's difficult to get agreement on what that actually looks like. Here's the common dictionary definition.

Quote:
Fair - 1. treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination.


Are we favoring those on lower incomes and discriminating against those who earn more? Or are we treating everyone equally because we will increase the tax percentage on anyone who moves from a low to high income or decrease it if the situation is reversed? I'm in the later camp but you can see how it could spark a lot of debate before you even look at what "fair" levels of taxation should be.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:15 am 
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Looks like Soimon is in the shit if the latest 3 news poll is to be believed.

They have Labour on 47.5%
National on 41.6%
Greens on 5.1%

No one else in parliament.

translates to 60 seats to labour and six to the Greens giving them a straight majority.

National get 53 + 1 more for ACT.

But it gets worse for Soimon:
He's also on 5.0% as preferred PM, less than Judith Collins who is on 6.2% :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:42 am 
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brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government



I think the keenness to get the programme going meant that things like selling the houses wasn't given a lot of thought.
The learning curve in this one is a bloody huge bluff


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:43 am 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Looks like Soimon is in the shit if the latest 3 news poll is to be believed.

They have Labour on 47.5%
National on 41.6%
Greens on 5.1%

No one else in parliament.

translates to 60 seats to labour and six to the Greens giving them a straight majority.

National get 53 + 1 more for ACT.

But it gets worse for Soimon:
He's also on 5.0% as preferred PM, less than Judith Collins who is on 6.2% :lol:


Bugger - We don't want this info out there sharpening National back-knives


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:51 am 
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Have the govt been a bit naughty by getting the IRD to do a bit of polling on their behalf, they say not but they’re politicians so...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110507792/revenue-minister-under-pressure-over-inland-revenues-political-polling


Last edited by jambanja on Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:01 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government



I think the keenness to get the programme going meant that things like selling the houses wasn't given a lot of thought.
The learning curve in this one is a bloody huge bluff



Step me through this if you don't mind...

it's February. These houses have been on the market since October, coincidentally the same month The Ministry of Housing and Urban development was actually formed. That was a year after the current government came to power, give or take a few weeks.

Did they manage to get houses, land, approvals etc all done and ready for market within a year without forming gthe Ministry they wanted to look after all of that?

That's f**king sensational :lol: :lol:

Hats off and pants down whingers, that is phenomenal performance...

unless the moves had been initiated by the previous government.

Well, that's awkward, isn't it? It's either a masterpiece of infrastructure initiation or the f**k up was your baby's fault :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:09 am 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Looks like Soimon is in the shit if the latest 3 news poll is to be believed.

They have Labour on 47.5%
National on 41.6%
Greens on 5.1%

No one else in parliament.

translates to 60 seats to labour and six to the Greens giving them a straight majority.

National get 53 + 1 more for ACT.

But it gets worse for Soimon:
He's also on 5.0% as preferred PM, less than Judith Collins who is on 6.2% :lol:


Notable because the Newshub polling has had National out in front even during the Jacindamania period of the election campaign (I think Labour only ever closed it to within a 2% from memory), and then into the first six months of the current govt.

Rule 1:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:12 am 
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but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:22 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


At 2.9 you don't think Winston is dead? NZF have an awful lot of work to do to stay alive, not pissing off their base would be a start...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
I know it’s ToR, it’s that I was alluding to really, in light of recent suggestions regarding the fleecing of the privileged.

Good name for a beer festival, that... Fleece the Privilege.

Talking of privilege.
Your wages in West Australian mining would put you in the top 5% of the worlds earners.
The present minimum wage places New Zealand as the third highest in the world after Australia and Luxemburg as far as I can gather.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... by_country

So what are we trying to achieve?

I'm not against CGT in principle but it is just another administrative nightmare.
Just another boil on the arse of the productive sector.

A solution looking for a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:34 am 
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Brabus wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


At 2.9 you don't think Winston is dead? NZF have an awful lot of work to do to stay alive, not pissing off their base would be a start...



Labour could do an Epsom or Ohariu


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:43 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


All this proves is that kiwis (like a lot of other countries) foolishly vote on personality rather than policy

If it was Andrew little pushing the same agenda. /policy -well labour wouldn’t be in government in the first place

Other point to note is that if national had even a half likeable leader they probably be ahead in the polls

In the meantime we have to put up with an inept government and leader who will probably announce her wedding plans (or another pregnancy) in a pre next election stunt whilst the numpties that voted for ‘let’s do this’ rubbish don’t realise that their lives aren’t improving as promised and are more interested in the exclusive woman’s day baby / wedding stories


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:46 am 
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:lol: :lol: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:48 am 
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Spoiler that please Auckman, that is definitely NSFW material


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:54 am 
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brat wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


All this proves is that kiwis (like a lot of other countries) foolishly vote on personality rather than policy

If it was Andrew little pushing the same agenda. /policy -well labour wouldn’t be in government in the first place

Other point to note is that if national had even a half likeable leader they probably be ahead in the polls

In the meantime we have to put up with an inept government and leader who will probably announce her wedding plans (or another pregnancy) in a pre next election stunt whilst the numpties that voted for ‘let’s do this’ rubbish don’t realise that their lives aren’t improving as promised and are more interested in the exclusive woman’s day baby / wedding stories

With a good dose of Tamatii coffeys surrgate baby countdown just to reinforce that they are diversity central man


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:01 am 
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Tamati would make an excellent PM tbf

Genuinely likeable bloke and would cover multiple demographics, tad bit naive tho


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:06 am 
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brat wrote:

In the meantime we have to put up with an inept government and leader who will probably announce her wedding plans (or another pregnancy) in a pre next election stunt whilst the numpties that voted for ‘let’s do this’ rubbish don’t realise that their lives aren’t improving as promised and are more interested in the exclusive woman’s day baby / wedding stories

Jesus, you're handling Labour being in power worse than Grouch when National was in power.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:08 am 
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maxbox wrote:
Tamati would make an excellent PM tbf

Genuinely likeable bloke and would cover multiple demographics, tad bit naive tho

yeah that TV personality/Politician cross-over thing is creepy


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:11 am 
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How is it creepy?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 am 
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Brabus wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


At 2.9 you don't think Winston is dead? NZF have an awful lot of work to do to stay alive, not pissing off their base would be a start...


If NZ first cant get back into parliament with a $3b slush fund...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:26 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Well, what a strange turn this thread has taken re a possible CGT. It seems if you question it you're a greedy rich prick, and if you don't you're a communist. In a strange kind of reverse parody of the Trump thread's "winding up the Libtards" it seems that the best reason for it so far is because it will wind up the greedy conservatives.

So, in an effort to bring it back on track, can I ask the following questions?

1, What would we like a CGT to actually achieve, beside sticking it to the "rich"?
- Encourage investment in more productive sectors of the economy?
- Help make the housing market more affordable?
- redistribute tax so that multiple property owners pay more (upon sale), and everyone pays less via their income tax


I've added a third answer to your question. But it's your second answer that's probably the most important though.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:28 am 
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maxbox wrote:
How is it creepy?

Hes like a spokes puppet for the left, have you never seen him on that moving out show, terrible dull mediocre drivel = creepy


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:29 am 
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Hate to burst peoples balloons, but the poll last February had Labour on 48%, Nats 43%

Till the next one

First one after the holidays. Every body happy etc


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 am 
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Dark wrote:
Hate to burst peoples balloons, but the poll last February had Labour on 48%, Nats 43%

Till the next one

First one after the holidays. Every body happy etc


Was that TV1? According to the Newshub story this is the first time the TV3 one has had Labour ahead.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:36 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Brabus wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
but but but...

we were told the polling..

Winston was dead,

Jacinda's coalition was dead.

It was written. This was said.


At 2.9 you don't think Winston is dead? NZF have an awful lot of work to do to stay alive, not pissing off their base would be a start...


If NZ first cant get back into parliament with a $3b slush fund...


EggZackory. NZF, in my opinion have lost their base. Winston has gone against his xenophobic base. They can (and are) trying to buy votes up north. As a strategy however it is pretty poor when you isolate a large portion of your voters. Hence 2.9%, talk about a "Hail Mary".


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:39 am 
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Maniototo Man wrote:
Dark wrote:
Hate to burst peoples balloons, but the poll last February had Labour on 48%, Nats 43%

Till the next one

First one after the holidays. Every body happy etc


Was that TV1? According to the Newshub story this is the first time the TV3 one has had Labour ahead.


Yeah

Exactly the same period.

Seems more time of year to me than something amazing. Given Labour have only been ahead in them 3 times before after the election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... dual_polls

And NZF and the Greens were pretty much the same


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:44 am 
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One thing is for sure

This will be the final blow to sour the Winston Ardern/Labour relationship more than ever.

Bye bye any chance of a CGT or labour reforms


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:48 am 
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Dark wrote:
Maniototo Man wrote:
Dark wrote:
Hate to burst peoples balloons, but the poll last February had Labour on 48%, Nats 43%

Till the next one

First one after the holidays. Every body happy etc


Was that TV1? According to the Newshub story this is the first time the TV3 one has had Labour ahead.


Yeah

Exactly the same period.

Seems more time of year to me than something amazing. Given Labour have only been ahead in them 3 times before after the election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... dual_polls

And NZF and the Greens were pretty much the same


Could be. But after all the shit the Guvmint's been attracting lately, with Kiwibuild and striking Drs etc, I really expected to see the polls go the other way.

There must be a TV1 poll due soon so it will be interesting to see how that compares.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:06 am 
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BillW wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I know it’s ToR, it’s that I was alluding to really, in light of recent suggestions regarding the fleecing of the privileged.

Good name for a beer festival, that... Fleece the Privilege.

Talking of privilege.
Your wages in West Australian mining would put you in the top 5% of the worlds earners.
The present minimum wage places New Zealand as the third highest in the world after Australia and Luxemburg as far as I can gather.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... by_country

So what are we trying to achieve?

I'm not against CGT in principle but it is just another administrative nightmare.
Just another boil on the arse of the productive sector.

A solution looking for a problem.


I tends to agree. If you're going to have it don't do it half arsed - include the family home. As soon as you make exceptions it gets complicated and you create a lucrative new opportunity for the tax accountants.

Of course a CGT on the family home would be political suicide.

It appears it may not be redistributive enough to make all the trouble worth it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109818642/capital-gains-tax--what-we-know-about-how-it-would-work


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:35 am 
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brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government


Because Central Otago has a dire shortage of non-tourism housing in the right places and more than enough top end housing.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:36 am 
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Ted. wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government


Because Central Otago has a dire shortage of non-tourism housing in the right places and more than enough top end housing.



Then why does no one want them?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:49 am 
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Maniototo Man wrote:
BillW wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I know it’s ToR, it’s that I was alluding to really, in light of recent suggestions regarding the fleecing of the privileged.

Good name for a beer festival, that... Fleece the Privilege.

Talking of privilege.
Your wages in West Australian mining would put you in the top 5% of the worlds earners.
The present minimum wage places New Zealand as the third highest in the world after Australia and Luxemburg as far as I can gather.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... by_country

So what are we trying to achieve?

I'm not against CGT in principle but it is just another administrative nightmare.
Just another boil on the arse of the productive sector.

A solution looking for a problem.


I tends to agree. If you're going to have it don't do it half arsed - include the family home. As soon as you make exceptions it gets complicated and you create a lucrative new opportunity for the tax accountants.

Of course a CGT on the family home would be political suicide.

It appears it may not be redistributive enough to make all the trouble worth it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109818642/capital-gains-tax--what-we-know-about-how-it-would-work


Imagine them taxing the family home though. Let's say you bought a family home in Auckland a few years ago for say $500k. Your kids are now growing up and you need more space for them. Your house is now worth say $1.1m but to upgrade to a bigger house for your growing family is going to cost say $1.6m. It will be a struggle but doable as you are 'moving in the same market'. But then the Govt wants to tax you at say 33% on the $600k capital gain on your family home. Suddenly you're $200k out of pocket. Your house may have increased in value through housing inflation but you're no better off because the cost of a new house has gone up too! And economists want to tax us on this purely inflationary gain? Do we get tax relief on the purchase of the new, similarly inflated home?


Last edited by booji boy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:50 am 
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Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government


Because Central Otago has a dire shortage of non-tourism housing in the right places and more than enough top end housing.



Then why does no one want them?


I have no idea. Perhaps they are ugly, perhaps all the baristas and hamburger flippers are being underpaid by the nasty capitalist running dog cafe owners.

Nevertheless, there is a serious shortage of non-tourist accommodation in Central Otago. This issue is pretty fundamental to Central Otago's housing policy and why, for example, QLDC are putting so much effort into finding solutions for the shortage.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:53 am 
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Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government


Because Central Otago has a dire shortage of non-tourism housing in the right places and more than enough top end housing.



Then why does no one want them?

Workers' houses at sav blanc socialist prices.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:56 am 
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BillW wrote:
Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
brat wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12202581

Why on earth would you build these ridiculous 'houses' in wanaka of all places

Completely idiotic government


Because Central Otago has a dire shortage of non-tourism housing in the right places and more than enough top end housing.



Then why does no one want them?

Workers' houses at sav blanc socialist prices.


Well, we wouldn't want workers getting paid a decent wage, would we.

That would really f**k things up.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:58 am 
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Maniototo Man wrote:
BillW wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I know it’s ToR, it’s that I was alluding to really, in light of recent suggestions regarding the fleecing of the privileged.

Good name for a beer festival, that... Fleece the Privilege.

Talking of privilege.
Your wages in West Australian mining would put you in the top 5% of the worlds earners.
The present minimum wage places New Zealand as the third highest in the world after Australia and Luxemburg as far as I can gather.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... by_country

So what are we trying to achieve?

I'm not against CGT in principle but it is just another administrative nightmare.
Just another boil on the arse of the productive sector.

A solution looking for a problem.


I tends to agree. If you're going to have it don't do it half arsed - include the family home. As soon as you make exceptions it gets complicated and you create a lucrative new opportunity for the tax accountants.

Of course a CGT on the family home would be political suicide.

It appears it may not be redistributive enough to make all the trouble worth it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109818642/capital-gains-tax--what-we-know-about-how-it-would-work


There's no basis for any of the two bolded statements you have made. An exemption would be a simple thing to implement and enforce, especially when compared to what is already exempt ofr can be claimed. There is no clear rational for including the family home when one of the sated aims is to increase housing affordability and shift investment from unproductive housing to productive endeavours.


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