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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Dennis Muilenburg
Chief Executive Officer of Boeing

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"Please board the plane now, Dennis. We are waiting for you"

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Petej wrote:

Considering the whistle blowing at Boeing this will be due to a management decision and pressure. Being pressured into decisions by unethical manager types (who you can bet won't be the signature on the technical sign off) at large engineering companies is the default and not folding can result in lost promotions/salary increases, being intentionally bypassed or cut out of key meetings and even having your technical work edited without you knowing then presented at the meeting they have cut you out of. Protection from this sort of behaviour is the only reason I eventually joined a union.


Not exactly the same thing, but Haddon-Cave was scathing about the culture in the Nimrod programme, where BAe pressured/hectored quite junior Qinetiq auditors to approve the design despite there being clear unresolved (at least untested) safety issues.

If I follow correctly, the Nimrod had two pairs of engines, and one of each pair could be shut down at cruise to improve efficiency. Restarting it meant diverting compressed (and therefore pretty bloody hot) air from one engine to the other. This air duct ran through a bay aft of parts of the fuel system, which was not seen as an issue as it hadn't caused problems before. It sounds quite a risk to me.

They (BAe, overseen at least in principle by Qinetiq) did quite a halfarsed job on the safety case, and in 2006 a Nimrod was lost after a leak after mid-air refueling soaked the insulation around the duct and reached self-ignition temperature, with all hands lost.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:32 am 
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Lovely article written by an old family friend of mine for the Daily Maverick

Quote:
Whenever I fly Ethiopian Airlines, I’m struck by the giant smiles of the flight attendants, clad in dark green and mustard yellow uniforms.

They are particularly friendly if I have my two-and-a-half-year-old son with me. Ethiopians, as a rule, adore children. They are cherished, spoiled and people are always excited to see them.

As soon as we board, the flight crew always give my boy a “gift pack” of puzzles, crayons and a tiny, stuffed lime green crocodile. He has a collection of crocodiles that he adores.

But now, strewn across a patch of rough ground outside Addis Ababa, is the same line green that adorns the planes they call the “Spirit of Africa”.

The day after Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 crashed, killing all 157 people aboard, diggers were working to extract pieces of the plane, sifting through, looking for the passengers and crew.

Ethiopian Airlines napkins fluttered across the field in the breeze along with flight maps, luggage tags and business cards. A woman’s purse. A man’s shorts. Pieces of the engine. A crossword puzzle. A life vest.

As I arrived, a local journalist put his hand over his heart and said he was so sorry. It became a common theme. Ethiopians were ashamed, they felt they had failed.

The country is immensely proud. They are part of an ancient civilisation dating back to the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon. They have their own language, their own deeply religious culture, food, calendar and even their time – their clock runs from dawn to dusk, not midnight to midnight and sits six hours behind what they call “Westerners” time.

Nine Ethiopians were killed on flight 302 en route to Nairobi, as well as people from at least 34 other nations. Locals stood around the site for days. They watched, cried and apologised.

Standing near the wreckage, a man came over with a tray and plastic cups of strong Ethiopian coffee. He too apologised, hand over his heart.

He says he works for Ethiopian Airlines and I asked if he knew the pilots or crew. He says yes, he was friends with one of them. He hands out the coffee. Hospitality through tragedy.

Ethiopia needs a break. Plagued by bad leadership for decades, they are finally one of the few good news stories. Prime minister Abiy Ahmed is affectionate, energetic, vivacious and young, but most of all he appears committed to democratic reforms and is putting his money where his mouth is.

Despite the new leadership, the country has tremendous hurdles to overcome. After decades of corrupt leadership and draconian laws that have bred suspicion, you can’t unscramble an egg overnight. Amidst the country’s stagnation, Ethiopian Airlines always stood out as their success story. The Emirates Airlines of Africa, their national pride.

The company sponsored everything in Ethiopia and its branding is a common sight. Its CEO, Tewolde Gebremariam, is known to be hands-on and incorruptible. 2

Now I’m writing as I sit on another Ethiopian Airlines flight, headed to Tanzania with my family. My son is kicking me as my mum tries to convince him to go to sleep.

Six minutes into the flight I thought of the terror those parents on flight 302 must have felt clutching their children as the plane plummeted.

Through my cloudy eyes, all I can do is hold mine tightly, as he holds his lime green crocodile.


https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinion ... -overcome/


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:32 am 
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Do they know it’s Christmas time at all ?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:25 am 
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backrow wrote:
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all ?

Jesus, Yeeb, you are totally insensitive.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:33 am 
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assfly wrote:
Lovely article written by an old family friend of mine for the Daily Maverick

Quote:
Whenever I fly Ethiopian Airlines, I’m struck by the giant smiles of the flight attendants, clad in dark green and mustard yellow uniforms.

They are particularly friendly if I have my two-and-a-half-year-old son with me. Ethiopians, as a rule, adore children. They are cherished, spoiled and people are always excited to see them.

As soon as we board, the flight crew always give my boy a “gift pack” of puzzles, crayons and a tiny, stuffed lime green crocodile. He has a collection of crocodiles that he adores.

But now, strewn across a patch of rough ground outside Addis Ababa, is the same line green that adorns the planes they call the “Spirit of Africa”.

The day after Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 crashed, killing all 157 people aboard, diggers were working to extract pieces of the plane, sifting through, looking for the passengers and crew.

Ethiopian Airlines napkins fluttered across the field in the breeze along with flight maps, luggage tags and business cards. A woman’s purse. A man’s shorts. Pieces of the engine. A crossword puzzle. A life vest.

As I arrived, a local journalist put his hand over his heart and said he was so sorry. It became a common theme. Ethiopians were ashamed, they felt they had failed.

The country is immensely proud. They are part of an ancient civilisation dating back to the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon. They have their own language, their own deeply religious culture, food, calendar and even their time – their clock runs from dawn to dusk, not midnight to midnight and sits six hours behind what they call “Westerners” time.

Nine Ethiopians were killed on flight 302 en route to Nairobi, as well as people from at least 34 other nations. Locals stood around the site for days. They watched, cried and apologised.

Standing near the wreckage, a man came over with a tray and plastic cups of strong Ethiopian coffee. He too apologised, hand over his heart.

He says he works for Ethiopian Airlines and I asked if he knew the pilots or crew. He says yes, he was friends with one of them. He hands out the coffee. Hospitality through tragedy.

Ethiopia needs a break. Plagued by bad leadership for decades, they are finally one of the few good news stories. Prime minister Abiy Ahmed is affectionate, energetic, vivacious and young, but most of all he appears committed to democratic reforms and is putting his money where his mouth is.

Despite the new leadership, the country has tremendous hurdles to overcome. After decades of corrupt leadership and draconian laws that have bred suspicion, you can’t unscramble an egg overnight. Amidst the country’s stagnation, Ethiopian Airlines always stood out as their success story. The Emirates Airlines of Africa, their national pride.

The company sponsored everything in Ethiopia and its branding is a common sight. Its CEO, Tewolde Gebremariam, is known to be hands-on and incorruptible. 2

Now I’m writing as I sit on another Ethiopian Airlines flight, headed to Tanzania with my family. My son is kicking me as my mum tries to convince him to go to sleep.

Six minutes into the flight I thought of the terror those parents on flight 302 must have felt clutching their children as the plane plummeted.

Through my cloudy eyes, all I can do is hold mine tightly, as he holds his lime green crocodile.


https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinion ... -overcome/


Patronising, saccharine shit.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:40 am 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Patronising, saccharine shit.


I'm sorry you see it that way. I feel that the debate about the crash has focused solely on the technical specifications of aircraft rather than the lives that have been lost, of which this article that was written by a CNN journalist living in Addis Ababa addresses.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:49 am 
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assfly wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Patronising, saccharine shit.


I'm sorry you see it that way. I feel that the debate about the crash has focused solely on the technical specifications of aircraft rather than the lives that have been lost, of which this article that was written by a CNN journalist living in Addis Ababa addresses.


Woah. Tough call from A5D5E5. It may not have said much in the way of what happened or why, but it gave me an insight into the local feeling in the aftermath. It was a worthwhile piece.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:40 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
backrow wrote:
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all ?

Jesus, Yeeb, you are totally insensitive.


I too apologise, hand over my heart. Hilarity through trajectory.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:08 pm 
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backrow wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
backrow wrote:
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all ?

Jesus, Yeeb, you are totally insensitive.


I too apologise, hand over my heart. Hilarity through trajectory.


You do realise that a lot of western professionals died in that crash too right? Assuming relative proximity might make you realise the gravity of this tragedy. Heaven forbid the mother of your children was on board.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:32 pm 
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jdogscoop wrote:
backrow wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
backrow wrote:
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all ?

Jesus, Yeeb, you are totally insensitive.


I too apologise, hand over my heart. Hilarity through trajectory.


You do realise that a lot of western professionals died in that crash too right? Assuming relative proximity might make you realise the gravity of this tragedy. Heaven forbid the mother of your children was on board.


don't worry, she's a saffa, no chance she'd ever fly on Ethiopian Air.

and I do realise the Gravity - unlike the Pilots or Boeing apparently.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:35 pm 
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backrow wrote:
jdogscoop wrote:
backrow wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
backrow wrote:
Do they know it’s Christmas time at all ?

Jesus, Yeeb, you are totally insensitive.


I too apologise, hand over my heart. Hilarity through trajectory.


You do realise that a lot of western professionals died in that crash too right? Assuming relative proximity might make you realise the gravity of this tragedy. Heaven forbid the mother of your children was on board.


don't worry, she's a saffa, no chance she'd ever fly on Ethiopian Air.

and I do realise the Gravity - unlike the Pilots or Boeing apparently.


Sick burn. :thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:47 pm 
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ET302 used the Cut-Out switches to stop MCAS


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:28 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:

Jesus Christ. :((


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:31 pm 
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Boeing's software "fix" now requires further revisions before being pushed out. At this stage I suspect that even if the FAA sign off on the type certification, the rest of the world won't. And if that's the case then the max is DOA. Every week that airframe isn't flying is another nail in the coffin


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:47 am 
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Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market. It may take time, but there will be a life for the MAX once this is fixed.

Where there will be heavy consequences will be on the regulatory bodies. I am sure the delegations currently in place both in Europe and the US will be heavily challenged, and the authorities will be asked to take back everything under their control. They will also be double careful, which is a good thing, but will lengthen the certification process of the aircraft.


Last edited by TheFrog on Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:49 am 
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Quote:
"Despite [the pilots'] hard work and full compliance with the emergency procedures, it was very unfortunate that they could not recover the airplane from the persistence (of) nose diving," Ethiopian Airlines wrote in a statement on Thursday.


When I think of those who tried to imply that this had to do with ETH pilots lack of training/skills or who questionned Ethiopian as an airline...

Link to ET statement here


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:14 am 
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TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market. It may take time, but there will be a life for the MAX once this is fixed.

Where there will be heavy consequences will be on the regulatory bodies. I am sure the delegations currently in place both in Europe and the US will be heavily challenged, and the authorities will be asked to take back everything under their control. They will also be double careful, which is a good thing, but will lengthen the certification process of the aircraft.


I mean that a 737 type certification won't cover a pilot for Max - it will take a whole new type certification for a pilot to be able to fly Max. If that's the case then the economics change significantly for the worse for Boeing in every sale.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:01 pm 
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assfly wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Patronising, saccharine shit.


I'm sorry you see it that way. I feel that the debate about the crash has focused solely on the technical specifications of aircraft rather than the lives that have been lost, of which this article that was written by a CNN journalist living in Addis Ababa addresses.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:07 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:16 pm 
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MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


IF the MAX does not come back then Boeing WILL sell more NGs than budgeted and the world's airlines will need to put up prices to passengers more than they had otherwise planned (or make other savings). There will be a leakage to other marques but it wont be game changing by itself.

If that DOES happen then the existential question for Boeing is how to get back into that particular market, as Airbus have a newer airframe which they will doubtless stretch and make more efficient, and other plane makers will seek to fill the gap in the years that it WILL take Boeing to get a new frame off the ground.

My money is still on the MAX coming back, but I believe it will take all of significant modifications, a massive effort of certification authorities worldwide and a very 'umble marketing campaign by Boeing


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm 
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MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


No need for that, TheFrog is very knowledgeable on this subject.

Except with the age of many fleets getting older if they cannot procure replacements (due to backlogs and limit of supply) then risk factors increase. A market with only one offering is bad for everyone


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:09 pm 
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MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


You angry?

Nice contribution to the debate by the way.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:23 pm 
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TheFrog wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


You angry?

Nice contribution to the debate by the way.


Mungo likes to take the piss. He's a good guy whose his typing fingers get bouts of Tourette's :D

But underneath it all there is a brain in there.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:52 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


IF the MAX does not come back then Boeing WILL sell more NGs than budgeted and the world's airlines will need to put up prices to passengers more than they had otherwise planned (or make other savings). There will be a leakage to other marques but it wont be game changing by itself.

If that DOES happen then the existential question for Boeing is how to get back into that particular market, as Airbus have a newer airframe which they will doubtless stretch and make more efficient, and other plane makers will seek to fill the gap in the years that it WILL take Boeing to get a new frame off the ground.

My money is still on the MAX coming back, but I believe it will take all of significant modifications, a massive effort of certification authorities worldwide and a very 'umble marketing campaign by Boeing


It's not quite as simple as "swap out Max orders for NG". There's a whole bunch of Max that were intended for transatlantic operations, just like the A321LRs. a 737NG, especially in winter, can't make that route. For Southwest, Ryanair, sure, it's a reasonable option (especially if they got sufficient additional discount on the airframe) but for other operators that's not going to work


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Saint wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


IF the MAX does not come back then Boeing WILL sell more NGs than budgeted and the world's airlines will need to put up prices to passengers more than they had otherwise planned (or make other savings). There will be a leakage to other marques but it wont be game changing by itself.

If that DOES happen then the existential question for Boeing is how to get back into that particular market, as Airbus have a newer airframe which they will doubtless stretch and make more efficient, and other plane makers will seek to fill the gap in the years that it WILL take Boeing to get a new frame off the ground.

My money is still on the MAX coming back, but I believe it will take all of significant modifications, a massive effort of certification authorities worldwide and a very 'umble marketing campaign by Boeing


It's not quite as simple as "swap out Max orders for NG". There's a whole bunch of Max that were intended for transatlantic operations, just like the A321LRs. a 737NG, especially in winter, can't make that route. For Southwest, Ryanair, sure, it's a reasonable option (especially if they got sufficient additional discount on the airframe) but for other operators that's not going to work


Then there will be other airframes that are currently operating these routes that will be either made to last longer, or re-purchased. There will be a price differential against that which was expected.

There is a shortage of seats against that which has been budgeted for by airlines, I do not think that there will be holes in schedules, however.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:02 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
Saint wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


IF the MAX does not come back then Boeing WILL sell more NGs than budgeted and the world's airlines will need to put up prices to passengers more than they had otherwise planned (or make other savings). There will be a leakage to other marques but it wont be game changing by itself.

If that DOES happen then the existential question for Boeing is how to get back into that particular market, as Airbus have a newer airframe which they will doubtless stretch and make more efficient, and other plane makers will seek to fill the gap in the years that it WILL take Boeing to get a new frame off the ground.

My money is still on the MAX coming back, but I believe it will take all of significant modifications, a massive effort of certification authorities worldwide and a very 'umble marketing campaign by Boeing


It's not quite as simple as "swap out Max orders for NG". There's a whole bunch of Max that were intended for transatlantic operations, just like the A321LRs. a 737NG, especially in winter, can't make that route. For Southwest, Ryanair, sure, it's a reasonable option (especially if they got sufficient additional discount on the airframe) but for other operators that's not going to work


Then there will be other airframes that are currently operating these routes that will be either made to last longer, or re-purchased. There will be a price differential against that which was expected.

There is a shortage of seats against that which has been budgeted for by airlines, I do not think that there will be holes in schedules, however.


A lot of these are new routes for airlines moving into that space, or extensions of existing services that would now have to be scrubbed. Not so easy to just swap in a widebody as commercially that won't stack up. Both the Max and neo were going to be shaking up a whole bunch of transatlantic operations, so if Max is off the table then that changes a lot of things for a lot of airlines.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Fair enough!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:28 pm 
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Preliminary Report is out here

http://www.ecaa.gov.et/documents/20435/0/Preliminary+Report+B737-800MAX+%2C%28ET-AVJ%29.pdf/4c65422d-5e4f-4689-9c58-d7af1ee17f3e


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:31 pm 
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Saint wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

Eat a fvck you tunnelvisioned tosser. The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


IF the MAX does not come back then Boeing WILL sell more NGs than budgeted and the world's airlines will need to put up prices to passengers more than they had otherwise planned (or make other savings). There will be a leakage to other marques but it wont be game changing by itself.

If that DOES happen then the existential question for Boeing is how to get back into that particular market, as Airbus have a newer airframe which they will doubtless stretch and make more efficient, and other plane makers will seek to fill the gap in the years that it WILL take Boeing to get a new frame off the ground.

My money is still on the MAX coming back, but I believe it will take all of significant modifications, a massive effort of certification authorities worldwide and a very 'umble marketing campaign by Boeing


It's not quite as simple as "swap out Max orders for NG". There's a whole bunch of Max that were intended for transatlantic operations, just like the A321LRs. a 737NG, especially in winter, can't make that route. For Southwest, Ryanair, sure, it's a reasonable option (especially if they got sufficient additional discount on the airframe) but for other operators that's not going to work


Not sure GE would be too happy about this either...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:54 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:


So, no evidence of damage, and pilots followed Boeing's guidance on how to resolve the issue. Plane still crashed.

Not good


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:40 pm 
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Saint wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:


So, no evidence of damage, and pilots followed Boeing's guidance on how to resolve the issue. Plane still crashed.

Not good

Makes for pretty grim reading. Every pilot's nightmare...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:20 pm 
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blindcider wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Again, I wouldn't be that extreme in my views. The world needs the MAX, and the world needs Boeing on this market.

The fate of this or that model of aircraft signifies three fifths of farcall in the greater scheme of things.


No need for that, TheFrog is very knowledgeable on this subject.

Except with the age of many fleets getting older if they cannot procure replacements (due to backlogs and limit of supply) then risk factors increase. A market with only one offering is bad for everyone

Clearly a market that is better than one with a plane that likes to nose dive into the ground


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:22 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
Saint wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:


So, no evidence of damage, and pilots followed Boeing's guidance on how to resolve the issue. Plane still crashed.

Not good

Makes for pretty grim reading. Every pilot's nightmare...

So all this stuff about more experienced pilots would have saved the day was just so much bollox


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:56 pm 
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I don't understand this statement;
Quote:
Boeing .... says the upgrades are not an admission that MCAS caused the crashes.

Why would they say that? Surely they'd want people to know that the planes will be safe after they've had the upgrade, rather than that something else might be making them fly into the ground?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:08 pm 
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message #2527204 wrote:
I don't understand this statement;
Quote:
Boeing .... says the upgrades are not an admission that MCAS caused the crashes.

Why would they say that? Surely they'd want people to know that the planes will be safe after they've had the upgrade, rather than that something else might be making them fly into the ground?


Insurance? Corporate manslaughter? Legal advice might be "don't admit anything until the final report is published".


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:15 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
I don't understand this statement;
Quote:
Boeing .... says the upgrades are not an admission that MCAS caused the crashes.

Why would they say that? Surely they'd want people to know that the planes will be safe after they've had the upgrade, rather than that something else might be making them fly into the ground?


Insurance? Corporate manslaughter? Legal advice might be "don't admit anything until the final report is published".

Yeah probably. Seems like a money pit either way, then.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:19 pm 
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message #2527204 wrote:
I don't understand this statement;
Quote:
Boeing .... says the upgrades are not an admission that MCAS caused the crashes.

Why would they say that? Surely they'd want people to know that the planes will be safe after they've had the upgrade, rather than that something else might be making them fly into the ground?


Because otherwise they're admitting fault. The court cases become very simple at that point


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Saint wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
I don't understand this statement;
Quote:
Boeing .... says the upgrades are not an admission that MCAS caused the crashes.

Why would they say that? Surely they'd want people to know that the planes will be safe after they've had the upgrade, rather than that something else might be making them fly into the ground?


Because otherwise they're admitting fault. The court cases become very simple at that point

I guess up to now they've been saying it's perfectly safe had the pilots followed procedure, and if the airline had bothered to upgrade the optional safety features.
I wouldn't want to fly in it if they're saying that fixing MCAS issues might not solve the problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:07 pm
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Saint wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
I don't understand this statement;
Quote:
Boeing .... says the upgrades are not an admission that MCAS caused the crashes.

Why would they say that? Surely they'd want people to know that the planes will be safe after they've had the upgrade, rather than that something else might be making them fly into the ground?


Because otherwise they're admitting fault. The court cases become very simple at that point


Just on the news now and Boeing are saying their systems played a part in the crash. The cat is out the bag - no point in denying it anymore.

Edit: and for the Lion Air crash too. What a clusterfuck.


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