Yeah, I think you are right. I answered a poster's question with some regional stuff and threw something out to see if it would stick, but this thread is as dead as Heaven on a Saturday night. There are still good players out there: some do not want to play rep rugby, some have more baggage than others, some are not yet qualified. As mentioned previously, the Ontario Blues lost to the Atlantic Rock last year, and the Rock ran the Blues close in the CRC final. The Arrows have added a couple of quality Kiwis, but the core of the team is still the old Blues. BC could put together a team rather quickly to match the Arrows. Alberta/Prairies could scrape together a team a step down from the Arrows and BC, but could still play in MLR.

McRorie decided years ago to stay and put down roots. Canada needs as many quality people as it can get. I see no problem with his DO position.

Growing the game starts at the lower ground, but the national union and the provincial ones need to still get at the teenage guys. I mentioned this previously, but contacts need to be made at Football Canada's annual Canada Cup - its national provincial championship for high school players. There is talent on display there. Some of those young men will go on to university, some to junior football, some will quit playing. I believe at last year's tourney no person from Rugby Canada was at the tournament and only a couple of persons from the provincial unions were in Calgary.

Good Cohen reference (maybe it predates him).

When I played, most of the national guys were in Victoria and Vancouver, with the top ones playing pro.

If a guy showed up and quickly showed he belonged, he was quite possibly on track for selection.

I’m not saying it was a better system, but even BC prem doesn’t offer that these days. It was just simpler. CCSD did a good job of plucking young players from other places. Of course, there were still politics and misses.

I’m just not sure what a young promising player would do these days. There seem to be more options and less clarity.

The death of every youth sport in Canada besides hockey and soccer is going to be early focus on rep/elite.

"More options and less clarity" is an interesting point. I like it. Have you considered being a Canadian rugby blogger? You have something worthwhile to say. I think more options are a good thing, but they can obfuscate an issue. To your point: a promising junior age player from out here is on the Island and already starting for JBAA premier. We are not sure what it means anymore. Twenty years ago we would say watch out for this kid. Good juniors from Alberta/prairies still need to face BC boys to see if they can compete with them.

You are spot on about 20 years ago. Some of those teams were stacked. He likely would have had to prove himself in 1st division o begin.

That kid now likely has to play for the Tide, and I’m not sure what that does.

If you haven’t made U21 or whatever you are likely in the outside looking in.

Good News

Oitomen and Sauder should both be playing for the Blues this weekend.

Bad News

Coe is back with the 7s. FFS.

Eh? I know a lot of posts on this thread (and many posters bar moosehead) show little or any interest in the club game past the top and who can or can't make it to the elite level (despite the work some of you do in the real world) or just laying in to the BCRU/prem clubs , but to those of us in BC still playing, coaching and actively growing the game in our community it's crunch time in the season with plenty still going on. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that dismissing what's going on now is something I'd expect from RC, not the vocal critics of same

I am not in B.C. to some extent I find that unfortunate, but I will not dismiss people who volunteer like you. Yeah my focus is at the 'top' of rugby here in Canada and not the grass roots. Canuckles always tells me that I should focus more there. I used to volunteer for rugby here in Alberta but sadly do not have any time for it.

At least you're honest Only pulling your leg, I know what you meant was nothing going on at the elite level until summer. But still, plenty going on elsewhere

They’re not even getting the best all the time, just those who can afford. Some of the kids I know who are in the West development program are probably not even the best athletes at their average schools. I bet the ‘graduation rate’ is just as poor or worse than in the multi year South African study.

Huge waste of money when they could do more to build a healthier club competition for youth and hold some regional all star games. You don’t need to bring these kids in centrally and give them slightly better (if that!) instruction than they’d get at home / s&c from school or a personal trainer. Encorage them to commit and do the work at home through coach development and some big regional showcase games that elevates the challenges, captures kids from all corners and doesn’t freeze out ‘have-nots’ with rego/travel costs.

Lots of people like to that way if they have the cash. Put together a team with an ambitious budget where each family is going to be out $5K in travel plus plus plus. That grant that pays for registration isn’t going to help a kid from a modest home. Creating a financial barrier to entry is the first and worst round of cuts.

You also lose families who don’t see the value, which is completely sane. That kid who gets 2 at bats at provincials is paying the same as the kid who got 15.

Barkwill announced his retirement from international rugby today, so who will be our WC hookers now? Howard and Piffero?

I griped about his usage, but can’t question his commitment or toughness.

I’m not sure RC has done the best job of development at the position.

Very nice guy, wish him the best. Was very gracious when I ran into him at the Women's Rugby World Cup in Ireland a couple of years ago (his girlfriend was on the team) and allowed us to take loads of pictures of him with my son. Sat with him at the pre-match dinner before the Scotland match in Toronto as well, he was great.

Finally some good Canadian rugby news!

Will Percillier has signed a 3 year deal with Stade Francais. They rate him too apparently and he should feature with the senior boys sooner than later.

Of course being a successful overseas Canadian rugby player will not endear him to the RC selectors. (Paris, Trainor)

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2019/0 ... JLIMzYkUdU

Apparently RC will announce the reformation of the Pacific Pride tomorrow.

Another dues levy on the way then?

Well hopefully they are a bit better in regards to planning the budget for the Pride than they were with their electrical budget.

BTW, it will be a U23 side.

New Pride Team

That is amazing news. The former Pride produced an a large number of SR CDN players.

This is amazing news.

Uni's just can not work with the same pool of talent due to academic entrance requirements

It all will depend on their set up. A U23 side playing in the CDI is a very good start. Ideally a U23 side will help bridge the gap between club rugby and MLR rugby (Toronto Arrows and a future Vancouver franchise). That will go a very long way to stop the bleeding in Canadian rugby.

Those persons who support the Pacific Pride program believe in Rugby Canada's hegemony over the sport in our country and the centralization of its operations on Vancouver Island.

In the eight years after the first program was discontinued, and the men's XVs team was the primary focus of Rugby Canada, our record against our main rival, USA, was 11 - 1. Our highest ranking was after the RWC '11 when there was no Pacific Pride program. In the last eight years of the Pacific Pride our record against our main rival, USA, was 9-5. There is no evidence to support the claim that the original Pacific Pride program assisted rugby in Canada.

When one mentions the above stats to the Canadian rugby community one is looked at with blank stares and open mouths.

fini.

I understand those stats you are saying. I am not thinking the Pride is a savior for Canadian Rugby. I view it as a good way to keep prospects in the system. Keeping it at a U23 side, or even U21, is a good way to keep people playing at a decent level and feeding them into MLR/tier 2 Europe or better sides. It alone will not turn our fortunes around, it is just a good way to keep people playing rugby and find late bloomers.

They will play in the BC Premier division

More importantly, it was good to see this in the press release: "With a view to improving Canada’s world rankings, and an understanding that success as a nation is tied to the number of players who are exposed to elite competition on a regular basis, Rugby Canada’s ambition is to increase the number of Canadian players playing in top professional environments such as Super Rugby, Top 14, Premiership and Pro 14, the newly established Major League Rugby and the World Rugby Sevens Series". Good to see some self awareness at last that they need their top players playing at the top levels abroad rather than thinking they can match that here.


No evidence? Looking at results during and after the program surely ignores the fact it's focus is on young players? I.E. the affects of the programme take years to be fully realised, and also have an impact long after it wraps up. For example, according to the release (I have no idea how accurate it is) the majority of players at the 99, 03, 07, 11 RWCs were part of the PP.

On a related note, where are you getting your 11-1, 9-5 results from? "The last eight years of PP" was 97-05. Canada's record in that time v the US was 11-5. From 05 to 13, the 8 years after, it was 11-1, yes. They are not drastically different given it's a "main rival". Though if you compare the 9 years PP was running v 9 after (rather than an arbitrary 8 ), it's 13-6 and 11-2. Again, comparable. If anything, in the aftermath of implementing the PP, things just got better?

More to the point, since then when the impact of the PP has worn off, it's 0-8 with one draw. That's of far more significance than a couple of games swing over an 18 year period. I can see why RC are keen to try and see what was working in the period 96-14 rather than keep doing what wasn't been working since...

You evidence doesn't seem to show what you think, IMO - open to correction but I don't see it.

Fini was supposed to mean it, but I will answer your post (even though this theme has been done numerous times over the years) and then that is it for me with Canadian rugby.

Of course PP players comprised a number of players on the 99, 03 and 07 RWC teams. Back then you had to play with the Pride to make the national team, unless you were an eligible like Major, Reid, Pritchard or Munro. Only a fool would believe Rugby Canada's claptrap. By 2011 a whole school of good players made the NSMT without being blessed by being a member of the Pacific Pride. I think the 2011 guys as a group were as good or better than the last years' players on the Pacific Pride teams. As I have mentioned on this thread previously, leading into the 2003 RWC, Clark recalled Lougheed and Ross, two players who had been retired for years. Their recall was an admission that the PP program could not produce the players necessary for the national team.

I used calendar years. I used 2013 as a cutting off point because by the fall of that year a fundamental change in direction was put in place by Rugby Canada regarding 'elite' men's rugby: a directional change which Canadian rugby is still trying to readjust. If you do not believe in the point, it is your decision. Essentially, I used the eight years from 2013 back to the end of the PP program and the final eight years of the original Pacific Pride squads. I thought I was being very fair with the years.

FFS, Westshore's backline is essentially an U20 squad. There are a number U23 guys playing first string in B. C. who are playing on merit. I read what Rugby Canada is doing/saying as a criticism of BC rugby clubs (and those east of the Rockies) and their inability to produce quality players. Returning to a Pacific Pride program is a warm and fuzzy answer to the problems of men's rugby in Canada.

http://www.bcrugbynews.com/show_news.cfm?ID=3160

LANGFORD, B.C. Wednesday, April 24 – Rugby Canada announced today the establishment of the Rugby Canada Performance Academy, who will compete as the “Pacific Pride”- a national high-performance men’s academy program targeting players across Canada between the ages of 18-24 years who have been identified as having the potential to be elite players who can eventually move into professional and international rugby.

Thanks for the response (though there's no need to be pissy - I'm no fool, they are honest questions).

That's fair enough re the 8 years. And of course I agree re the post 2013 fundamental change which has fcuked over Canadian rugby - for years to come IMO, but that's old ground.

A whole load of "other" players making the 2011 RWC squad is hardly an indictment of the programme - it's not intended to be the only path to the top. And I don't see recalling a couple of players in 03 as any kind of admission that the PP couldn't produce players. Couldn't produce all the players, sure. But anyone who though one acadaemy or team could would have to be off the rocker!

I'm not sure what point you are making re Westshore playing a load of U20s in their backline or the U23 already playing Prems. So?! How can it be a bad thing for there to be more players getting to play higher level rugby? Or to be in full time programmes? More opportunity for promising players from around the country, not just those with those clubs, to get proper training and experience and exposure?

Academies work brilliantly in rugby the world over, I can't see how this is a bad idea in principle. I mean, the fact it's a CR scheme with BCRU approval makes me skeptical! But in principle the idea is not intrinsically bad. The progression of young players to the top of the game in this country is fcuking terrible - a rugby academy is a step in the right direction.

I agree with, 100%, that this is partly an RC "criticism of BC rugby clubs (and those east of the Rockies) and their inability to produce quality players". And that it's a "warm and fuzzy answer to the problems of men's rugby in Canada". You are spot on. But on the former, it's fcuking justified criticism if you ask me, and on the latter, as I said, it's just a step.

Lastly, re "If you do not believe in the point, it is your decision". It's nothing to do with belief. I'm by no means saying the old programme was good (I have exactly zero opinion on it). The point is that the stats don't seem to back up the point you were making and it doesn't look like it's the "gotcha" moment you seemed to think. I mean, I totally understand the criticism and skepticism! I do. But to be left with "with blank stares and open mouths" I'd need to see something more than a good period of rugby, followed by a good period of rugby and a top ever ranking, followed by it going to shit when the affects of the thing you claim was ineffectual wear off. If anything, it suggests* the exact opposite of what you are saying to be honest (*in isolation and with no context, so I am NOT drawing that conclusion, but it certainly doesn't indicate the point you made either)

This is an over-used gif on the interweb, but ...

I'm playing this coming weekend in Windsor RFC's Rose City International Tournament.

Had fun. There were I think 4 Canadian teams there - Sarnia, Toronto Dragons, the hosts Windsor, and Stoney Creek I presume is a Canadian team. I whored on to Cleveland Rovers' B-side for one game and played the Dragons, who stomped us in a 1st round match. My club played Windsor in the consolation 2nd round and we shut them out. I liked Sarnia and how they played, looked really good. Their fly half had a great hockey player mullet. They made the Social final and played the Detroit Tradesmen.

They actually had prize money which I've never seen at a rugby tournament before. The Competitive Division was $2000 CAD and the Social Division was $1000 CAD. ($400 CAD entry fee.) They got hosed a bit by the massive amounts of rain pre-tournament. The field they said it was a lake and on Friday they had a sump out to try and suck up as much of the water as they could. But it was ran really well, even things like on Sunday morning they had a company come to suck out all the port-a-johns. They were very well sponsored, that's where the prize money came from, hearing some details Windsor RFC made bank on this, and I think they have a 5-year commitment from their chief sponsor to commit to the tourney and the prize money.

Nice! Welldone on getting some playing time! How are you feeling today, sore?


I've never heard of prize money either, but good on them. While $2k (and C$ at that) wouldn't go terribly far split amongst the squad, could do some good for a club.

And glad they were able to manage the wet / rain. It's been an absolutely sodden few weeks up this way.

Was a little sore yesterday on the drive back, but not too bad. I played probably 60 minutes spread over 3 matches.



Showing up Saturday morning you can tell they tried to mow. One end of the field was dry and grass clippings and the other end was a standing water mud pit.

Likely without the national players, given it's closeness to the RWC?

Spotted a familiar surname in this junior 7s roster ... is Marco old enough to have a son that old? Nephew? Not related?

Canada will host USA at B.C. Place this September. Heard it will be on Sept. 7.

Yes, and Leinster in August in Hamilton (aug. 24). So, by my admittedly shoddy reckoning, this means that as a run-in to the rilly big shewwww, they'll have the following matches:

Jul. 27 USA (Glendale)
Aug. 3 Fiji (Fiji)
Aug. 9 Tonga (Fiji - not sure if Rugby Canada has this correct)
Aug. 24 Leinster (Ham.)
Sep. 7 USA (Vanc.)

Given our current state, those are some stiff challenges! But it's a decent warm up imho.

Matt Beukeboom is moving to Mountauban in ProD2. Step up for his contract and should ensure playing time with the big boys. Pau was happy with him but looks like this is a depth/squad issue.

Oh right, he was in their academy. Nice that he'll get paid. Too bad he couldn't crack Pau's lineup but no shame in that. Still time to learn and grow.


DTH making an appearance against Ulster, he's back. Hopefully Hassler has kept in shape and dusts off the cobwebs, and all of a sudden our backline improves quite a bit imho. Still a lot of holes but those two do huge things for the attack, and shore up the wide defense a ton

Can we assume, at least, that Leinster will be mostly second string given how many Irish internationals are in their squad?