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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:29 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.



I don't know how many times this point needs to be made, but, once again...

Nobody is claiming the majority of Leave voters in 2016 wanted no deal or that the GE or the Ref gives the Tories a mandate to seek No Deal over a deal. It's a total strawman.

The point is:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and the preference for (and expectation of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


Have you read the manifesto?

This is what it says:

Quote:
“We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe.”


It then repeats the same commitment no fewer than eight times and in the final page states:

Quote:
“With Theresa May and her team we will secure the best possible deal with the European Union and chart a course to a new global future”


Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:29 pm 
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I am sure Alanis Morisette wrote a song about this

https://www.staffordshire-live.co.uk/news/local-news/jcb-jobs-agency-workers-3205112

"The digger giant has not commented on the new round of job losses but last month blamed "uncertainties in the global market"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:30 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
happyhooker wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

Let's see the figures in September and whether we're slipping into a recession before you start crowing.

Also, about a million of them are zero hours contract "jobs", which skews the figures somewhat.



It’s a “million” today folks.

No, "about a million" is what I wrote. And, yes, I'll take that back.

It's actually 896,000 according to yesterdays press release from the ONS. 115, 000 higher than a year ago. Or 2.7% of all people in employment.

And it's still shameful.

Quote:
There were an estimated 896,000 people (not seasonally adjusted) in employment on zero-hour contracts in their main job, 115,000 more than for a year earlier, but 8,000 fewer than the same period in 2016. This represents 2.7% of all people in employment for April to June 2019.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... august2019



Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Nobleman wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.



I don't know how many times this point needs to be made, but, once again...

Nobody is claiming the majority of Leave voters in 2016 wanted no deal or that the GE or the Ref gives the Tories a mandate to seek No Deal over a deal. It's a total strawman.

The point is:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and the preference for (and expectation of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


Have you read the manifesto?

This is what it says:

Quote:
“We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe.”


It then repeats the same commitment no fewer than eight times and in the final page states:

Quote:
“With Theresa May and her team we will secure the best possible deal with the European Union and chart a course to a new global future”


Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?



Those that read “no deal is better than a bad deal” in the same document.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Nobleman wrote:

Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?


There is your mistake


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


And don't let the door slap you in the arse on the way out.....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:31 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


Idiot.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
You see I think he's more of a liar than a loon.



Except he’s told no lies. You in the other hand have told dozens already today.

Do you want to address your 'Murdoch's a remainer' one? I've asked you a couple of times.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


And don't let the door slap you in the arse on the way out.....



:thumbup: ,

Our 12% corporation tax and large free trade zones will just be a start I hope.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

Who in their right mind would interpret that as a mandate for no deal Brexit?


There is your mistake


I set the trap and he walked straight in.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


The Tories could not get pure "No Deal" through parliament. Even with the DUP they only have a majority of 1, and there are a sizable number of Tories who would vote against it.. Which is why there is talk about suspending parliament, exiting during a general election etc.

If that happens a lot of people will see it as subversion of powers, and especially if things get tough will feel very angry, Angry people can fire off in any direction.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


You didn't


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


Idiot.



Sorry? You’re saying that everywhere else in the world there’s no flexible or casual employment? Indeed I’m an idiot.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
zzzz wrote:
I am inclined to think Boris is genuinely committed to No Deal IF he can't get a renegotiation. So Tory policy hasn't really changed, I just think he may actually mean it.

I remain sceptical he can pull it off. I disgaree with the current view that Parl have missed the boat. I think Bercow and the rebels will come up with something. A bit of me wonders if Bj is actually a bit ambivalent about this risk. I think he would quite fancy a GE where he could position himself standing against a duplicitous elite rather than as the destroyer of worlds etc.


There's no time for a GE before Halloween. So Boris would have to ask for another Extenstion which would tip his hand to everyone else that he wants another GE. Then Farage would destroy him in the press........

Basically I think Boris is fudged as is the Tory Party for the next 20 years. Bravo David Cameron.

It definitely makes the most sense trying to work out what happens next, by working backwards from an election. It's the element that looks most certain.

So the biggest thing is then the date of the election. Before October the 31st, or as zzzz says if the rebels replace Johnson and before a new date, and Johnson can say he's Mr.Brexit up against the elite. Afterwards and being Mr.Brexit counts for less and there's the potential "destroyer of worlds" thing.

There's time for an election before the 31st, SS. Most of the analysis doesn't include him choosing to go to an election. Either way it comes back to when it happens and the time he decides is best. His polling is in the high 20s and low 30s. The Libdems are polling where they last were in 2010. These are the obstacles he has to get around.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:35 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


Idiot.



Sorry? You’re saying that everywhere else in the world there’s no flexible or casual employment? Indeed I’m an idiot.


Twat. You deliberately trolled what Camroc posted. And you're trying it again. I see through your bullshit.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:38 pm 
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If you must be the other cheek to Bimbo's arse must you quote him?

The man is a sad cúnt posting from his holidays and you're all enabling him and make the rest of us live through it.

His pathetic style of debate is so transparent that only Camroc is still drawn in.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:40 pm 
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I see that those trying to reign in Mr Johnson's Brexit are now deemed to be collaborators.

f**king banana republic horseshit from the Poundshop Churchill.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
If you must be the other cheek to Bimbo's arse must you quote him?

The man is a sad cúnt posting from his holidays and you're all enabling him and make the rest of us live through it.

His pathetic style of debate is so transparent that only Camroc is still drawn in.


Are you still technically on holidays though if you don't have a job?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:43 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
If you must be the other cheek to Bimbo's arse must you quote him?

The man is a sad cúnt posting from his holidays and you're all enabling him and make the rest of us live through it.

His pathetic style of debate is so transparent that only Camroc is still drawn in.

Indeed, just put the paraphi... little Englander on ignore.
Posted from pool over looking the Black Sea.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:44 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
backrow wrote:
Has anyone spoken today about the economics news that there are 1m more people with jobs in the U.K. today than since the brexit vote ? Or that Germany announced a quarter of negative growth and one of the lowest business confidence index scores ever ?

Right now it’s hard to see all the doom and gloom on the economics side of things for the UK

...
Also, about a million of them are zero hours contract "jobs", which skews the figures somewhat.



It’s a “million” today folks.

No, "about a million" is what I wrote. And, yes, I'll take that back.

It's actually 896,000 according to yesterdays press release from the ONS. 115, 000 higher than a year ago. Or 2.7% of all people in employment.

And it's still shameful.

Quote:
There were an estimated 896,000 people (not seasonally adjusted) in employment on zero-hour contracts in their main job, 115,000 more than for a year earlier, but 8,000 fewer than the same period in 2016. This represents 2.7% of all people in employment for April to June 2019.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... august2019



Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.

Backrow lauds the UK's low unemployment rate.

So?

Hong Kong is presently basking in the glow of a 21 year low in unemployment.

Life has never been so good for HK or ooop North and the estuaries as we both pluckily stand firm against the harsh dictatorships of our brutal neighbours :yawn:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:46 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Nobleman wrote:

He's gone into full-on Brexit headbanger loon mode and ignores any evidence that proves he is wrong.

As Philip Hammond wrote in his column today (and he should know given he wrote large parts of the 2017 manifesto)

Quote:
To pretend now that 2016 Leave voters voted for a hard no-deal Brexit is a total travesty of the truth.



I don't know how many times this point needs to be made, but, once again...

Nobody is claiming the majority of Leave voters in 2016 wanted no deal or that the GE or the Ref gives the Tories a mandate to seek No Deal over a deal. It's a total strawman.

The point is:

- Ref votes were cast in the knowledge No Deal could result and preference for (and expectaion of) a deal doesn't mean the Ref mandate is conditional on there being a deal, and
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


One minor point, the Tories did not 'win' the election. Or at least they did not achieve a majority.

They are a minority government with a supply and demand agreement, as a result it is constitutionally dubious to say the least to claim they have a mandate for No Deal Brexit.

In addition I think it is pushing it to suggest that the statements around No Deal in their 2017 Manifesto actually amount to a Manifesto Commitment being closer to slogans than proper policy commitments.

Even if you regard the No Deal statements as a policy commitment as a minority government it may be their policy but they don't necessarily have a mandate as a result of their minority status.

Usually this question of a mandate is only relevant to the Salisbury Convention and the right of the House of Lords to vote down legislation unless it is a Manifesto commitment. However it assumes that the government party has a majority of MPs and can therefore vote through government business without support from other parties.

The dominance of the Conservative and Labour parties post-war meant that this was not a really a live issue until the 2010 and 2017 elections as the winning party had a majority of MPs if not of the popular vote and it would have stayed this was if not for the breakdown of the UK norm of majoritarian government.

To summarise the current Government has no mandate for No Deal Brexit (or anything other manifesto commitments).


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:51 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Casual or flexible employment isn’t “shameful”, it’s what occurs across the globe. Your representation of it is shameful of course.


Idiot.



Sorry? You’re saying that everywhere else in the world there’s no flexible or casual employment? Indeed I’m an idiot.


Twat. You deliberately trolled what Camroc posted. And you're trying it again. I see through your bullshit.



I didn’t troll it, his whole post was either a troll or a stroke, you can’t have it all your way. His point is bloody stupid .


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:57 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see that those trying to reign in Mr Johnson's Brexit are now deemed to be collaborators.

f**king banana republic horseshit from the Poundshop Churchill.



It’s the brexit they all voted on of course.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:04 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
I see that those trying to reign in Mr Johnson's Brexit are now deemed to be collaborators.

f**king banana republic horseshit from the Poundshop Churchill.


Utterly grim and scary.

Makes you wonder how far this can go on.

Nullify parliament, take full control, call anyone who disagrees a traitor.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:04 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Bimbo's making a lot of mistakes recently. The volume has caught up with him


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Strong stuff from Homer.

Will they try deflections, bluster or call him an idiot.

I'm going 2/1 on for deflection.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Insane_Homer wrote:
Image



Of course the budget has increased by more than the 350 mill a week now. :thumbup:


And of course a court judges it fine again today.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
Bimbo's making a lot of mistakes recently. The volume has caught up with him



I’ve been exemplary if compared to your whole country’s output.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Ah....but Insane Homer, you don't get the mind of a Brexiteer.

zzzz has already explained that those that voted leave weren't listening to those guys you quoted, the leave voters believed what the Remain campaign were saying.

Based on that, the point I think you were trying to make is a ridiculous one.

Leave voters knew they were voting for no deal because Osbourne and Cameron told them they were :smug:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:19 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Bimbo's making a lot of mistakes recently. The volume has caught up with him



I’ve been exemplary if compared to your whole country’s output.


I can't speak for the other few million but I am a particularly lazy example of Irish manhood


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:29 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
bimboman wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Bimbo's making a lot of mistakes recently. The volume has caught up with him



I’ve been exemplary if compared to your whole country’s output.


I can't speak for the other few million but I am a particularly lazy example of Irish manhood



We'll take no lessons from some English council estate chavs who has been unemployed for two years


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:29 pm 
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Can anyone point me to the first dated article/statement/quote/anything that mentions a no deal exit from the EU please?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Anybody else notice how links, sources and any kind of evidence has mysteriously started to dry up from the Brexit fluffers?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:34 pm 
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msp. wrote:
zzzz wrote:
- the Tories won the GE on a mandate to try and get a deal but which also provides a mandate for no deal if they can't get a good deal so they literally have a mandate for No Deal.


The Tories could not get pure "No Deal" through parliament. Even with the DUP they only have a majority of 1, and there are a sizable number of Tories who would vote against it.. Which is why there is talk about suspending parliament, exiting during a general election etc.

If that happens a lot of people will see it as subversion of powers, and especially if things get tough will feel very angry, Angry people can fire off in any direction.


Not disagreeing. The Parliamentary numbers make this tough. Just addressing the point that No deal would somehow be an illegitimate result.

One day some one will produce an interesting analysis of how we got here but it seems clear to me that Parl had many chances to avoid No Deal. It would be amusing if it turns out that Gina Miller's court case was the ultimate cause of No Deal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:36 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
bimboman wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We voted to leave however.


And don't let the door slap you in the arse on the way out.....



:thumbup: ,

Our 12% corporation tax and large free trade zones will just be a start I hope.


I'm looking forward to it now. :thumbup: The only thing that will be hurt in all of this is feelings. And Ireland.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Anybody else notice how links, sources and any kind of evidence has mysteriously started to dry up from the Brexit fluffers?



You’ve not posted one piece of evidence or a link on resource on this thread.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:39 pm 
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The Sun God wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The best deal is the one we already have. Everyone knows that.


It's the best deal that anyone has or are likely to ever have in the EU.



We don't have a deal. Or, at least, not anymore than I have a flying unicorn. There are not enough votes for TM's WA. It has ceased to be.

To be absolutely clear, it's not so much that the Govt have decided No Deal is better than a bad deal. It's actually parl that did that.


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