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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:16 pm 
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https://twitter.com/EmbassyofRussia/sta ... 9034819585

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:28 pm 
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Laughs.

It'll offend Polish sensibilities for sure, but I think the Nazis had overran Poland circa 1939.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Those noble Russians eh! :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:33 pm 
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I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:47 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Laughs.

It'll offend Polish sensibilities for sure, but I think the Nazis had overran Poland circa 1939.

Only half. They left the other bit to the Soviets.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:57 pm 
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spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Naw its the first time they invaded Poland (when they where allies with the Nazi's).


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:02 pm 
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spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:05 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


That'll be news to the Patriarch of Moscow


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Brazil wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


That'll be news to the Patriarch of Moscow


I don't think he had a lot of influence during the Communist era...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:13 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.



If it was Silesia, that wouldn't be huge surprise.

Not a lot of people realise the German and Russian armies actually conducted some intergrated operations in Poland.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:30 pm 
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Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:56 pm 
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AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



That’s why they signed up with the UK military en masses to help liberate Europe.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:02 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



That’s why they signed up with the UK military en masses to help liberate Europe.


Truth hurts Bimbo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:14 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


I don't know about Germans but for the Russian army mass Raping and Marauding was the norm which is why a lot of Eastern Europe absolutely despises them. Cities were worse off after Russian "Liberation" than after German blitzkrieg. - It was reversed if you were Jewish ofc.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:18 pm 
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AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



Why? If the UK had done something as stupid as also declaring war on the USSR in 1939 Poland would now be annexed permanently into a Nazi German state or still part of the Soviet Empire.



If anything they should be mad at FDR for being taken in by Stalin.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:44 pm 
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Dunno why the ruskis were so keen on rape - could have just gone to a Celtic country or NZ and get all the poon they wanted for a couple of pints of snakebite


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:53 pm 
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AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



Depends if you think Russia is a "European" power.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:56 pm 
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AlanBengio wrote:
bimboman wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



That’s why they signed up with the UK military en masses to help liberate Europe.


Truth hurts Bimbo



I wonder how many died fighting Italian fascists? If you think they hated us you’re in for a surprise .


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:57 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



Why? If the UK had done something as stupid as also declaring war on the USSR in 1939 Poland would now be annexed permanently into a Nazi German state or still part of the Soviet Empire.



If anything they should be mad at FDR for being taken in by Stalin.


I was referring to the pact signed in August 1939 between Great Britain and Poland - a pact highly despised by Churchill btw (who was not in power yet). Pact obliged Britain to defend Poland against “any European Power” invading it (of note: France did not wanted to be involved on it, as they already signed one in relation to defense of Poland in case of Germany attack only).
When Russia invaded Poland, Raczynski quickly called Britain (and not France) to declare war on Russia - a request that lord Halifax politely declined with no sound reason.

Later on it was reported there was a secret pact that said Britain was only obliged to go to war against Germany - but honestly I never saw it (whereas I did read the British Polish agreement).

You are right however; Britain was smart in not declaring war on Russia


Last edited by AlanBengio on Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:59 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
bimboman wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



That’s why they signed up with the UK military en masses to help liberate Europe.


Truth hurts Bimbo



I wonder how many died fighting Italian fascists? If you think they hated us you’re in for a surprise .


I did not say that to offend you anyway - it was just a base for discussions.
Errors are made by all sides after all - and that pact was an error (as pointed out by Churchill before the signature)


Last edited by AlanBengio on Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:00 pm 
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tc27 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



Why? If the UK had done something as stupid as also declaring war on the USSR in 1939 Poland would now be annexed permanently into a Nazi German state or still part of the Soviet Empire.



If anything they should be mad at FDR for being taken in by Stalin.


Actually, the complete written treaty (not available at the time, but available to AlanBengio today) specifically states aggression by Germany.

Regardless of that, the invasion of Poland was a joint pact between Germany and the USSR. The Poles at the time certainly recognised their best chance was throwing in with us, and if they feel betrayed it's because of the post war sell out - which has far more to do with FDR than anything else (minutes of the various big 3 meetings show that Chirchill very much wanted to reverse to pre WW2 borders in central Eurooe, where the Soviets wanted to keep their territorial gains and FDR was "ambivalent" to put it mildly


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Saint wrote:
tc27 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



Why? If the UK had done something as stupid as also declaring war on the USSR in 1939 Poland would now be annexed permanently into a Nazi German state or still part of the Soviet Empire.



If anything they should be mad at FDR for being taken in by Stalin.


Actually, the complete written treaty (not available at the time, but available to AlanBengio today) specifically states aggression by Germany.

Regardless of that, the invasion of Poland was a joint pact between Germany and the USSR. The Poles at the time certainly recognised their best chance was throwing in with us, and if they feel betrayed it's because of the post war sell out - which has far more to do with FDR than anything else (minutes of the various big 3 meetings show that Chirchill very much wanted to reverse to pre WW2 borders in central Eurooe, where the Soviets wanted to keep their territorial gains and FDR was "ambivalent" to put it mildly
.

You joking? The pact is public and copies are kept by few universities
Articles 1, 2 and 3 di no mention Germany at all (as all other part of the document)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:31 pm 
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I thought the Poles were f**ked off with Britain for the post war sell out?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:41 pm 
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FullbackAce wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


I don't know about Germans but for the Russian army mass Raping and Marauding was the norm which is why a lot of Eastern Europe absolutely despises them. Cities were worse off after Russian "Liberation" than after German blitzkrieg. - It was reversed if you were Jewish ofc.


Yeah abusing the locals is never a good idea, part of what brought Napoleon down in the peninsular war was having to devote huge numbers of men to protecting supply lines and messengers as well as general asymmetrical war having brutalised the Spanish and Portuguese populations encouraging them to somewhat en mass take up arms to wage the guerrilla. They were effective too, killed a lot of Frenchmen. Britain and her allies weren't perfect (Badajoz...), but, by and large Peninsular and even French civilians had positive experiences of them. Wellington was insistent on paying for food whereas Napoleon had long expected the army to supply itself by any means necessary.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:48 pm 
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Plastic Sarrie wrote:
I thought the Poles were f**ked off with Britain for the post war sell out?


Anyway my comments intended to be only a base for discussions - probably did start all with the wrong foot


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:20 pm 
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AlanBengio wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
I thought the Poles were f**ked off with Britain for the post war sell out?


Anyway my comments intended to be only a base for discussions - probably did start all with the wrong foot


Ffs don't apologise for a well founded base .

Thread has brought out a good deal of interesting views and knowledge


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:31 pm 
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AlanBengio wrote:
Plastic Sarrie wrote:
I thought the Poles were f**ked off with Britain for the post war sell out?


Anyway my comments intended to be only a base for discussions - probably did start all with the wrong foot

I was assuming by this point in the thread you would have blamed Mercedes


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:03 pm 
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Those kurwa Ruskis...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:19 pm 
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Katyn, & the Red Army stopping for a tea break during the Warsaw uprising; so the Nazis would kill all the troublemakers for them; are a couple of very good reasons why the Poles despise the Russians


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:22 pm 
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backrow wrote:
Dunno why the ruskis were so keen on rape - could have just gone to a Celtic country or NZ and get all the poon they wanted for a couple of pints of snakebite

The Yanks beat them to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:42 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.

Poles apart: the bitter conflict over a nation’s communist history

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/j ... _clipboard


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:36 am 
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tc27 wrote:
AlanBengio wrote:
Also not many people now that Britain was obliged to declare war also on USSR by pacts - and never did so.
If you talks to Poles nowadays about WWII they are still angry with UK for that



Why? If the UK had done something as stupid as also declaring war on the USSR in 1939 Poland would now be annexed permanently into a Nazi German state or still part of the Soviet Empire.



If anything they should be mad at FDR for being taken in by Stalin.



FDR was one of the chief reasons behind the whole thing kicking off - threatened sanctions against the Poles if they went ahead with siding with the Germans against the commies - would have required the Prussian territories to be returned (Danzig etc) but they'd have joined up against the greater threat. Much like Finland siding with them.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:56 pm 
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FullbackAce wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


I don't know about Germans but for the Russian army mass Raping and Marauding was the norm which is why a lot of Eastern Europe absolutely despises them. Cities were worse off after Russian "Liberation" than after German blitzkrieg. - It was reversed if you were Jewish ofc.


Don't let your anti Russian bias get in the way of course.

Yes there was the issue of rapes and murders by groups of Russian soldiers. But the way you make it out it would seem to be systematic and ordered from above. Many officers tried to stop such things and not all the soldiery were brutes either. History is not one broad brush. Many people in Eastern Europe welcomed the Soviets. Some because they were Jews in hiding or dying in camps, or other ideological enemies of the Nazis.

And let's not forget atrocities were being committed throughout the war and at it's end by people determined to have revenge. Ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland for example, Poles in Volhynia which is why many Poles formerly of that area were pleased when Russia seized the Crimea. the Serbs in Yugoslavia. Also what of the rapes committed by Allied soldiers ? French colonial troops and GI's out for a good time both before and after the wars end.

Let's not make this issue of rape and criminality from soldiers one that only applies to the nasty old Russians but the unfortunate fact that during war in any historical period allows standards of behaviour to slide and acts such as these to become commonplace.

By the way that puppet Saakashvili describing Russia as having no culture was one of the most laughable things I have ever heard from a so called head of a country. A nasty piece of work now running scared in the Ukraine.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:01 pm 
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PUMITA wrote:
FullbackAce wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
spookly wrote:
I guess for it to be considered liberation they'd need to f*ck off again afterwards, not linger and install a puppet government and insist they join your military/economic bloc.


Visited Poland a few years ago, and in one city came across a massive Russian war cemetery. You could see the Russians had spent a lot of time and effort making it a fitting memorial...statues, tanks and artillery pieces on plinths etc, but the place had obviously been totally neglected and ignored since they left... obviously the Poles didn't give a shit about them.

By contrast, at a friends farm at a small village in Southern Poland, there were 5 or 6 Germans buried down near their gate. What was wierd (I thought) was that someone 60 years later was placing fresh flowers on their grave every week, but no one knew who it was. It made no sense to me, but the only thing I could think of was that the Germans were christians, unlike the Russians.

The impression I got, was that although the Poles weren't that keen on the Germans, they absolutely hated the Russians.


I don't know about Germans but for the Russian army mass Raping and Marauding was the norm which is why a lot of Eastern Europe absolutely despises them. Cities were worse off after Russian "Liberation" than after German blitzkrieg. - It was reversed if you were Jewish ofc.


Don't let your anti Russian bias get in the way of course.

Yes there was the issue of rapes and murders by groups of Russian soldiers. But the way you make it out it would seem to be systematic and ordered from above. Many officers tried to stop such things and not all the soldiery were brutes either. History is not one broad brush. Many people in Eastern Europe welcomed the Soviets. Some because they were Jews in hiding or dying in camps, or other ideological enemies of the Nazis.

??? You don't need an order when they barely feed you, don't give you enough clothes and shoot you if on retreat. but I bet the girls understood poor desperate soldiers and didn't mind being raped.

Quote:
And let's not forget atrocities were being committed throughout the war and at it's end by people determined to have revenge. Ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland for example, Poles in Volhynia which is why many Poles formerly of that area were pleased when Russia seized the Crimea. the Serbs in Yugoslavia. Also what of the rapes committed by Allied soldiers ? French colonial troops and GI's out for a good time both before and after the wars end.

what does that have to do with anything? did I say allied soldiers were angels? Fact is even tho there were crimes committed on the western side, a whole lot of work was done later on to restore the region and bring it back on its feet. Whereas East was frozen in communist hell and Instead of apologizing Russians typically first deny the accusation, then deflect it because someone else did the same, then bring more excuses and at the end blame the victims. much like this post actually.

Quote:
Let's not make this issue of rape and criminality from soldiers one that only applies to the nasty old Russians but the unfortunate fact that during war in any historical period allows standards of behaviour to slide and acts such as these to become commonplace.
Again, no one said that. I said that marauding was the norm on the eastern front in WW2 and most of it from the Soviet side.
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By the way that puppet Saakashvili describing Russia as having no culture was one of the most laughable things I have ever heard from a so called head of a country. A nasty piece of work now running scared in the Ukraine.
Well, I never cared about anything else he said so I fail to see how that relates to this. Also have you ever heard of Trump or Erdogan or Boris?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:12 pm 
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If ever a thread was crying out for Brumbieman...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:48 pm 
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People of Ruislip: polish your own war memorial, stop expecting others to do your work for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Short Man Syndrome wrote:
People of Ruislip (Polish) STOP your own war memorial STOP expecting others to do your work for you QUESTION MARK.


FTFY


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:24 pm 
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FullbackAce wrote:

I don't know about Germans but for the Russian army mass Raping and Marauding was the norm .


The Germans in ww2 were pretty sound, a little bit of marauding but generally the locals loved them, especially in the East. Why else would they put fresh flowers on the German graves


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:24 pm 
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ManInTheBar wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:
People of Ruislip (Polish) STOP your own war memorial STOP expecting others to do your work for you QUESTION MARK.


FTFY


I don't get it. Is it funny?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:25 pm 
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Short Man Syndrome wrote:
ManInTheBar wrote:
Short Man Syndrome wrote:
People of Ruislip (Polish) STOP your own war memorial STOP expecting others to do your work for you QUESTION MARK.


FTFY


I don't get it. Is it funny?


No, it wasn't.


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