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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:44 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
My posts on this here thread, whilst in the minor sub-category of internet addiction, are also in the major category of WINNING. :D


In a race between a bag of cats and a dementia suffering donkey, you're cheering for the fact that your animal is still in the 'lead'. There is no winning going on here.


On the contrary, I have extremely satisfied with Trump's Presidency. I'm not some Richard Spencer type guy who expects political leaders to perform miracles, or to be a revolutionary. I believe in the merit of pointing the supertanker in a different direction. Eventually the slow but steady change in direction reaps genuine real results. And it's not just nudging, it's symbolism too. Trump has opened the Overton Window significantly. And as every day goes by, another globalist hits the eject button and retires or heads off to do something new, and another SJW type has a mental breakdown and heads off to the funny farm. The same pattern is happening in the UK and all across Europe too.

It has been a massive success.

Seneca, do you really agree with the dismantling of environmental protections? Would you want it in New Zealand?


I do not know anything about environmental protections.

EDIT: what I will say is that I have a theory about 'globalist Washington Consensus Neo-Liberal' politics in its late advanced stage. So many of its denizens or products gravitated into international roles over the past quarter century (generation) and preoccupied themselves constructing an every more elaborate system of rules, that they were essentially in effect trying to run an economy while standing with their foot on the hose. What began in the 70s and 80s as free-wheeling Hayekian Freidmanite liberalism had become stultifying polish shipyard stuff, only no one saw it that way as the people clogging up the system were billionaires flying in on corporate jets to Davos - how could these people possibly not know how to run the global economy? They're billionaires... Of course most of them knew nothing about money being either corporate shills (Sandberg) or accidental rich (Bono, Leo, etc) or actual crooks (any 3rd worlder).

Trump comes in, takes his foot off the pipe (YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO DO THAT!), system is unblocked. Amazing.


Last edited by Seneca of the Night on Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:46 pm 
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penguin wrote:
piquant wrote:
penguin wrote:
So we now have the whistleblower's version, backed up by the career bureaucrats, Sondland, Parnas, and the transcript. The accountability office say it was illegal to withhold aid, and the administration have yet to provide an alternative reason why they did it in the first place (have I missed that - I've heard they were trying to form a counter-narrative but not sure what that is).

The only addition to this would be someone like Bolton testifying, but you have to say at this point, even if he points the finger firmly at Trump, would that actually swing some/all of the republicans?

Are his supporters going to say that he's the president and they don't care about pressuring Ukraine by fair means or foul?


Nope, Mulvaney was in charge of OMB, and he's hiding behind Trump will not allow him to talk, and thus that because they can't talk to their illegal actions it's a witch hunt


That feels like a pretty flimsy shield to try and hide behind at this point.



Tbh if that was breached, and the Senate heard full and damning testimony from Bolton, Parnas, Mulvaney and Pence I doubt that would bring about Trump's removal, they've gone all in on the Trump dementia train (I realise he might just be thick and not suffering dementia)

Reality just isn't relevant to the GOP as of today


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:36 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
My posts on this here thread, whilst in the minor sub-category of internet addiction, are also in the major category of WINNING. :D


In a race between a bag of cats and a dementia suffering donkey, you're cheering for the fact that your animal is still in the 'lead'. There is no winning going on here.


On the contrary, I have extremely satisfied with Trump's Presidency. I'm not some Richard Spencer type guy who expects political leaders to perform miracles, or to be a revolutionary. I believe in the merit of pointing the supertanker in a different direction. Eventually the slow but steady change in direction reaps genuine real results. And it's not just nudging, it's symbolism too. Trump has opened the Overton Window significantly. And as every day goes by, another globalist hits the eject button and retires or heads off to do something new, and another SJW type has a mental breakdown and heads off to the funny farm. The same pattern is happening in the UK and all across Europe too.

It has been a massive success.

Seneca, do you really agree with the dismantling of environmental protections? Would you want it in New Zealand?


I do not know anything about environmental protections.

EDIT: what I will say is that I have a theory about 'globalist Washington Consensus Neo-Liberal' politics in its late advanced stage. So many of its denizens or products gravitated into international roles over the past quarter century (generation) and preoccupied themselves constructing an every more elaborate system of rules, that they were essentially in effect trying to run an economy while standing with their foot on the hose. What began in the 70s and 80s as free-wheeling Hayekian Freidmanite liberalism had become stultifying polish shipyard stuff, only no one saw it that way as the people clogging up the system were billionaires flying in on corporate jets to Davos - how could these people possibly not know how to run the global economy? They're billionaires... Of course most of them knew nothing about money being either corporate shills (Sandberg) or accidental rich (Bono, Leo, etc) or actual crooks (any 3rd worlder).

Trump comes in, takes his foot off the pipe (YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO DO THAT!), system is unblocked. Amazing.


You see, the thing is I agree with almost all of that. The billionaire class are mainly rentiers who won a lottery [although there are some exceptions who built real businesses.]

The question is whether you can just throw a spanner in the works and it goes better. I know we've discussed this. You know I think Trump is a cunning media operator but not much else. Can you just take the foot off the pipe and everything works? It depends if economics is more like a bath or a space shuttle.

Like a motor taken apart by someone who doesn't know about details, a lot of the parts Trump is throwing away are there for a reason. Environmental protections gave the world clean skies and water to drink. There's more to progress than money. Otherwise why progress at all?

And in the meantime, he could involve us all in a war, by idiocy. I hope that gives you pause to wonder if Trump is as good as you want him to be. I hope he is too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:04 pm 
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Are his supporters going to say that he's the president and they don't care about pressuring Ukraine by fair means or foul?[/quote]

Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:09 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:
You see, the thing is I agree with almost all of that. The billionaire class are mainly rentiers who won a lottery [although there are some exceptions who built real businesses.]

The question is whether you can just throw a spanner in the works and it goes better. I know we've discussed this. You know I think Trump is a cunning media operator but not much else. Can you just take the foot off the pipe and everything works? It depends if economics is more like a bath or a space shuttle.

Like a motor taken apart by someone who doesn't know about details, a lot of the parts Trump is throwing away are there for a reason. Environmental protections gave the world clean skies and water to drink. There's more to progress than money. Otherwise why progress at all?

And in the meantime, he could involve us all in a war, by idiocy. I hope that gives you pause to wonder if Trump is as good as you want him to be. I hope he is too.


Yes, to self serving billionaires jamming up the system in their own interests...I don't think you'd get much argument from the vast majority on that. I certainly disagree on the solution from Seneca. I feel economics is more like a rickety old space shuttle.

It's had lots of upgrades over time and now no one knows exactly how everything works, so we're desperate to find ways to fix one part without destroying the life support systems. There is no expert who has all the answers so instead we've apparently decided to throw a chimp into the mix to see whether he can debug it. The fact that the chimp was wearing a hat saying 'World class electrical engineer' seems to be enough to convince some people that he's up to the task, and the sound of hammering seems to be keeping them happy. So far the shuttle is still flying but I think we'd be better off jettisoning the chimp out the air lock before he chews through an important cable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:10 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:

Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Last edited by BokJock on Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:10 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


That's...one way of looking at things. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:43 pm 
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Woody is the Donald Trump of Planet Rugby.Would you like ranch or thousand island with that word salad?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:36 pm 
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penguin wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
You see, the thing is I agree with almost all of that. The billionaire class are mainly rentiers who won a lottery [although there are some exceptions who built real businesses.]

The question is whether you can just throw a spanner in the works and it goes better. I know we've discussed this. You know I think Trump is a cunning media operator but not much else. Can you just take the foot off the pipe and everything works? It depends if economics is more like a bath or a space shuttle.

Like a motor taken apart by someone who doesn't know about details, a lot of the parts Trump is throwing away are there for a reason. Environmental protections gave the world clean skies and water to drink. There's more to progress than money. Otherwise why progress at all?

And in the meantime, he could involve us all in a war, by idiocy. I hope that gives you pause to wonder if Trump is as good as you want him to be. I hope he is too.


Yes, to self serving billionaires jamming up the system in their own interests...I don't think you'd get much argument from the vast majority on that. I certainly disagree on the solution from Seneca. I feel economics is more like a rickety old space shuttle.

It's had lots of upgrades over time and now no one knows exactly how everything works, so we're desperate to find ways to fix one part without destroying the life support systems. There is no expert who has all the answers so instead we've apparently decided to throw a chimp into the mix to see whether he can debug it. The fact that the chimp was wearing a hat saying 'World class electrical engineer' seems to be enough to convince some people that he's up to the task, and the sound of hammering seems to be keeping them happy. So far the shuttle is still flying but I think we'd be better off jettisoning the chimp out the air lock before he chews through an important cable.


No one is meant to know how it all works. That's the point. But there's another old myth that is not really accurate, and that is that economists all disagree with each other: “According to legend, economists are supposed never to agree among themselves. If Parliament were to ask six economists for an opinion, seven answers would come back — two, no doubt, from the volatile Mr. Keynes!” (Paul Samuelson).

Economists, at least proper central bank ones, agree on an enormous amount, and that's why we have a prosperous global economic system. All this modern Davos stuff was just Boomer rent seeking - the Billionaire class were looking to lock themselves in for a 500 year stretch. Trump's instinct to hack away at all that is the right one. That's proper capitalism.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:03 pm 
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[quote="Seneca of the Night"]
I find that I agree with some of what you say around the problems, and then you diverge off into 'and that's what Trump is doing well' territory and I can't agree. Time after time people close to him talk about his inability to handle complex subjects, short attention span, their concerns over his mental state - none of it tallies with a man who is pursuing an economic goal. I suppose it is possible that, in his attempts to get cheers from his supporters with tariffs and the like, some of it could work out well, but it will be by sheer luck. The way the farmers are being hit in the midwest I think that that sort of negative result is far more likely.

Trump has never been a 'proper' capitalist either, as far as I'm concerned. Proper capitalism is 'I have something of value to you, we agree a price, both parties are happy with the trade'. Trump's view is 'I pretend to have something of value, I sell it to you, you complain as the product is defective, I call my lawyer'. He is capitalism done wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:14 pm 
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penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I find that I agree with some of what you say around the problems, and then you diverge off into 'and that's what Trump is doing well' territory and I can't agree. Time after time people close to him talk about his inability to handle complex subjects, short attention span, their concerns over his mental state - none of it tallies with a man who is pursuing an economic goal. I suppose it is possible that, in his attempts to get cheers from his supporters with tariffs and the like, some of it could work out well, but it will be by sheer luck. The way the farmers are being hit in the midwest I think that that sort of negative result is far more likely.

Trump has never been a 'proper' capitalist either, as far as I'm concerned. Proper capitalism is 'I have something of value to you, we agree a price, both parties are happy with the trade'. Trump's view is 'I pretend to have something of value, I sell it to you, you complain as the product is defective, I call my lawyer'. He is capitalism done wrong.


That's a very irritating post.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:32 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I find that I agree with some of what you say around the problems, and then you diverge off into 'and that's what Trump is doing well' territory and I can't agree. Time after time people close to him talk about his inability to handle complex subjects, short attention span, their concerns over his mental state - none of it tallies with a man who is pursuing an economic goal. I suppose it is possible that, in his attempts to get cheers from his supporters with tariffs and the like, some of it could work out well, but it will be by sheer luck. The way the farmers are being hit in the midwest I think that that sort of negative result is far more likely.

Trump has never been a 'proper' capitalist either, as far as I'm concerned. Proper capitalism is 'I have something of value to you, we agree a price, both parties are happy with the trade'. Trump's view is 'I pretend to have something of value, I sell it to you, you complain as the product is defective, I call my lawyer'. He is capitalism done wrong.


That's a very irritating post.


I'm sure you'll cope.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:18 pm 
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penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I find that I agree with some of what you say around the problems, and then you diverge off into 'and that's what Trump is doing well' territory and I can't agree. Time after time people close to him talk about his inability to handle complex subjects, short attention span, their concerns over his mental state - none of it tallies with a man who is pursuing an economic goal. I suppose it is possible that, in his attempts to get cheers from his supporters with tariffs and the like, some of it could work out well, but it will be by sheer luck. The way the farmers are being hit in the midwest I think that that sort of negative result is far more likely.

Trump has never been a 'proper' capitalist either, as far as I'm concerned. Proper capitalism is 'I have something of value to you, we agree a price, both parties are happy with the trade'. Trump's view is 'I pretend to have something of value, I sell it to you, you complain as the product is defective, I call my lawyer'. He is capitalism done wrong.


That's a very irritating post.



I'm sure you'll cope.


paddyor is sending me close to the edge. I'm not sure how much more exasperation I can take.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:03 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I find that I agree with some of what you say around the problems, and then you diverge off into 'and that's what Trump is doing well' territory and I can't agree. Time after time people close to him talk about his inability to handle complex subjects, short attention span, their concerns over his mental state - none of it tallies with a man who is pursuing an economic goal. I suppose it is possible that, in his attempts to get cheers from his supporters with tariffs and the like, some of it could work out well, but it will be by sheer luck. The way the farmers are being hit in the midwest I think that that sort of negative result is far more likely.

Trump has never been a 'proper' capitalist either, as far as I'm concerned. Proper capitalism is 'I have something of value to you, we agree a price, both parties are happy with the trade'. Trump's view is 'I pretend to have something of value, I sell it to you, you complain as the product is defective, I call my lawyer'. He is capitalism done wrong.


That's a very irritating post.



I'm sure you'll cope.


paddyor is sending me close to the edge. I'm not sure how much more exasperation I can take.


We've all made it this far. I'm sure we can see out the election before we lose our collective minds.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:33 am 
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penguin wrote:
piquant wrote:
penguin wrote:
So we now have the whistleblower's version, backed up by the career bureaucrats, Sondland, Parnas, and the transcript. The accountability office say it was illegal to withhold aid, and the administration have yet to provide an alternative reason why they did it in the first place (have I missed that - I've heard they were trying to form a counter-narrative but not sure what that is).

The only addition to this would be someone like Bolton testifying, but you have to say at this point, even if he points the finger firmly at Trump, would that actually swing some/all of the republicans?

Are his supporters going to say that he's the president and they don't care about pressuring Ukraine by fair means or foul?


Nope, Mulvaney was in charge of OMB, and he's hiding behind Trump will not allow him to talk, and thus that because they can't talk to their illegal actions it's a witch hunt


That feels like a pretty flimsy shield to try and hide behind at this point.


The jurors, in this case the Senate, can select what evidence they hear. They are not compelled to call Bolton, Parnas, et al, to testify, in fact they won't if it doesn't suit their version of justice. It's an inherently corruptible system of justice due to the jurors also being the judges and, to some extent, the investigators, purely by weight of numbers at any one time. It's a system that doesn't even attempt to remove conflict of interest. So, Parnas or Bolton, or anyone else who has pertinent evidence, will only get to testify if their evidence is perceived to be helpful to the outcome the majority of Senators desire, i.e. the Republicans in this instance.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:44 am 
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penguin wrote:
We've all made it this far. I'm sure we can see out the election before we lose our collective minds.
We all have our own coping mechanisms.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:50 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
penguin wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
You see, the thing is I agree with almost all of that. The billionaire class are mainly rentiers who won a lottery [although there are some exceptions who built real businesses.]

The question is whether you can just throw a spanner in the works and it goes better. I know we've discussed this. You know I think Trump is a cunning media operator but not much else. Can you just take the foot off the pipe and everything works? It depends if economics is more like a bath or a space shuttle.

Like a motor taken apart by someone who doesn't know about details, a lot of the parts Trump is throwing away are there for a reason. Environmental protections gave the world clean skies and water to drink. There's more to progress than money. Otherwise why progress at all?

And in the meantime, he could involve us all in a war, by idiocy. I hope that gives you pause to wonder if Trump is as good as you want him to be. I hope he is too.


Yes, to self serving billionaires jamming up the system in their own interests...I don't think you'd get much argument from the vast majority on that. I certainly disagree on the solution from Seneca. I feel economics is more like a rickety old space shuttle.

It's had lots of upgrades over time and now no one knows exactly how everything works, so we're desperate to find ways to fix one part without destroying the life support systems. There is no expert who has all the answers so instead we've apparently decided to throw a chimp into the mix to see whether he can debug it. The fact that the chimp was wearing a hat saying 'World class electrical engineer' seems to be enough to convince some people that he's up to the task, and the sound of hammering seems to be keeping them happy. So far the shuttle is still flying but I think we'd be better off jettisoning the chimp out the air lock before he chews through an important cable.


No one is meant to know how it all works. That's the point. But there's another old myth that is not really accurate, and that is that economists all disagree with each other: “According to legend, economists are supposed never to agree among themselves. If Parliament were to ask six economists for an opinion, seven answers would come back — two, no doubt, from the volatile Mr. Keynes!” (Paul Samuelson).

Economists, at least proper central bank ones, agree on an enormous amount, and that's why we have a prosperous global economic system. All this modern Davos stuff was just Boomer rent seeking - the Billionaire class were looking to lock themselves in for a 500 year stretch. Trump's instinct to hack away at all that is the right one. That's proper capitalism.

One thing proper economists agree on is supply side economics is snake oil. There's no evidence that tax cuts to the rich increases growth. It increases savings.

Back to the foot off the pipe, the one thing Trump has done to encourage that, and only within the United States, is deregulation.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:01 am 
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Strikes me that fascination or admiration for a catalyst regardless of outcome is at best innocent or naive, at worst deluded in the way religious devoton can be deluded.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:42 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Strikes me that fascination or admiration for a catalyst regardless of outcome is at best innocent or naive, at worst deluded in the way religious devoton can be deluded.



Hallelujah and an amen to that, brother!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:19 am 
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penguin wrote:
The story doesn't seem to have broken through to the MSM viewership but you have to wonder how long they can hold back the tide on this. With Nixon, it took a long time for there to be a change in opinion, but when it happened, it happened fast. I'm wondering whether we see a similar shift in the next week or two, or does Schifty manage to force through a decision and keep the train careering down the track?

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:38 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Strikes me that fascination or admiration for a catalyst regardless of outcome is at best innocent or naive, at worst deluded in the way religious devoton can be deluded.

Entropy suggests that when you break a teapot you don't get a better teapot.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:49 am 
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6.Jones wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Strikes me that fascination or admiration for a catalyst regardless of outcome is at best innocent or naive, at worst deluded in the way religious devoton can be deluded.

Entropy suggests that when you break a teapot you don't get a better teapot.


Yes... but evolution suggests you may not need one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:51 am 
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penguin wrote:
We've all made it this far. I'm sure we can see out the election before we lose our collective minds.


*watches horse bolt off into the distance*


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:25 am 
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In the story that keeps on giving, the long awaited Ukraine investigation is going to happen. Rudy will be feeling vindicated, except Ukraine isn't investigating the Bidens, but... Rudy.

Quote:
Ukraine Is Investigating Whether Marie Yovanovitch Was Under Surveillance By Rudy Giuliani's Associates

“Ukraine cannot ignore such illegal activities on its territory,” an official from the country's interior ministry said.

KYIV — Ukrainian authorities said Thursday they had opened a criminal investigation into whether former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch was under surveillance by associates of Rudy Giuliani while in Kyiv last spring.

Officials from Ukraine’s interior ministry announced the investigation in a televised briefing, citing a trove of documents released by House Democrats on Tuesday that included several cryptic WhatsApp messages between Lev Parnas and Robert Hyde that discussed monitoring Yovanovitch’s physical movements and electronic devices.

“Ukraine’s position is to not interfere in the domestic affairs of the United States,” an interior ministry official said. “However, the published records contain the fact of a possible violation of the legislation of Ukraine and the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which protects the rights of a diplomat on the territory of another country.

“Ukraine cannot ignore such illegal activities on its territory."


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/ukraine-impeachment-lev-parnas-marie-yovanovitch

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:46 am 
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penguin wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


That's...one way of looking at things. :lol:


There might actually be a reason to look into the Bidens, but that doesn't make what Trump did legal or valid. It is also possible Trump does have an actual defence, I've no idea what that might be but we haven't heard from Pompeo and Mulvaney so it's possible


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:16 am 
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piquant wrote:
penguin wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


That's...one way of looking at things. :lol:


There might actually be a reason to look into the Bidens, but that doesn't make what Trump did legal or valid. It is also possible Trump does have an actual defence, I've no idea what that might be but we haven't heard from Pompeo and Mulvaney so it's possible

If the Bidens broke the law they should be investigate by law enforcement, not the executive branch. There's a good reason why we don't give police powers to politicians.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:02 am 
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6.Jones wrote:
piquant wrote:
penguin wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


That's...one way of looking at things. :lol:


There might actually be a reason to look into the Bidens, but that doesn't make what Trump did legal or valid. It is also possible Trump does have an actual defence, I've no idea what that might be but we haven't heard from Pompeo and Mulvaney so it's possible

If the Bidens broke the law they should be investigate by law enforcement, not the executive branch. There's a good reason why we don't give police powers to politicians.


That's right. You should use the police to investigate your political opponents. Like Obama.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:08 am 
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The Redneck Rebuttal.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:25 am 
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Strange how Obama never so much as leaked a suggestion that Trump was under investigation prior to the election. It's almost as if.....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:42 am 
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They had an interview with Alan Dershowitz on Radio 4 this morning, part of the Trump legal team, and he stated point blank Trump is guilty of the charges put before him, but they do not rise to the level of impeachable and removal from office. And then he went on to misunderstand high crimes.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:13 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Strange how Obama never so much as leaked a suggestion that Trump was under investigation prior to the election. It's almost as if.....


I think part of Seneca's problem is that he finds it impossible to believe that Trump is untruthful.

Thus, if Trump states that Obama was using the Intelligence infrastructure to undermine Trump's campaign, then it is an indisputable fact.

Most of us are not that gullible, though, and we would like to see evidence before we blindly buy into the veracity of Trump's version.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:24 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Strange how Obama never so much as leaked a suggestion that Trump was under investigation prior to the election. It's almost as if.....


I think part of Seneca's problem is that he finds it impossible to believe that Trump is untruthful.

Thus, if Trump states that Obama was using the Intelligence infrastructure to undermine Trump's campaign, then it is an indisputable fact.

Most of us are not that gullible, though, and we would like to see evidence before we blindly buy into the veracity of Trump's version.


Surely he knows he lies but sees it as showmanship or media savviness, a tactic where the lies mask a truthful cutting to the core in his actions.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:48 am 
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penguin wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Strange how Obama never so much as leaked a suggestion that Trump was under investigation prior to the election. It's almost as if.....


I think part of Seneca's problem is that he finds it impossible to believe that Trump is untruthful.

Thus, if Trump states that Obama was using the Intelligence infrastructure to undermine Trump's campaign, then it is an indisputable fact.

Most of us are not that gullible, though, and we would like to see evidence before we blindly buy into the veracity of Trump's version.


Surely he knows he lies but sees it as showmanship or media savviness, a tactic where the lies mask a truthful cutting to the core in his actions.

Then why does he refer to Obama's illegal surveillance as if it actually happened?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:26 am 
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In more Obama related obsession news, Trump is looking to roll back healthy eating guidelines for schools as championed by Michelle Obama.

Meanwhile, the environment takes another kicking as the regulations relating to impact assessment look set to be eviscerated.

But I'm sure the backers, donors and dead eyed sociopath brigade will be delighted.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:27 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
piquant wrote:
penguin wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
Well fortunately we have sites like the excellent Conservative Treehouse to deconstruct what the Dems and their deep state cronies are trying to do to save their skins.
It wont work of course , Ukraine has issued a warrant for the arrest of the former head of Bursima , who is currently on the run.

'' It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.''


That's...one way of looking at things. :lol:


There might actually be a reason to look into the Bidens, but that doesn't make what Trump did legal or valid. It is also possible Trump does have an actual defence, I've no idea what that might be but we haven't heard from Pompeo and Mulvaney so it's possible

If the Bidens broke the law they should be investigate by law enforcement, not the executive branch. There's a good reason why we don't give police powers to politicians.


That's right. You should use the police to investigate your political opponents. Like Obama.

Today's broadcast comes to you from the town of Whataboutery.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
penguin wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Strange how Obama never so much as leaked a suggestion that Trump was under investigation prior to the election. It's almost as if.....


I think part of Seneca's problem is that he finds it impossible to believe that Trump is untruthful.

Thus, if Trump states that Obama was using the Intelligence infrastructure to undermine Trump's campaign, then it is an indisputable fact.

Most of us are not that gullible, though, and we would like to see evidence before we blindly buy into the veracity of Trump's version.


Surely he knows he lies but sees it as showmanship or media savviness, a tactic where the lies mask a truthful cutting to the core in his actions.

Then why does he refer to Obama's illegal surveillance as if it actually happened?

Because that's how he lies.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:04 pm 
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Quote:

That's right. You should use the police to investigate your political opponents. Like Obama.

Today's broadcast comes to you from the town of Whataboutery.[/quote]

I don't think that's technically whataboutery. It would be whataboutery if I said 'but Obama used his personal lawyer to investigate trump.'

But for those watching closely the entire trump presidency, including his election, has been about whether or not there is a hidden permanent bureaucracy in Washington allied to the Democrats running rampant.

Almost no one I've seen suggests Obama had to know about this, but given who will rid me of this troublesome priest phenoms and buck stops here principles it matters not : it was on his watch.

The show goes on. The problem for the Republic now is that if no one goes to prison over this for half the country that will be proof the deep state exists. Watch and learn grasshoppers.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:06 pm 
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You're right. It's not really whataboutery. Justifying your man's actions based on behaviors you deplored in his opponent is hypocrisy.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:07 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
penguin wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Strange how Obama never so much as leaked a suggestion that Trump was under investigation prior to the election. It's almost as if.....


I think part of Seneca's problem is that he finds it impossible to believe that Trump is untruthful.

Thus, if Trump states that Obama was using the Intelligence infrastructure to undermine Trump's campaign, then it is an indisputable fact.

Most of us are not that gullible, though, and we would like to see evidence before we blindly buy into the veracity of Trump's version.


Surely he knows he lies but sees it as showmanship or media savviness, a tactic where the lies mask a truthful cutting to the core in his actions.

Then why does he refer to Obama's illegal surveillance as if it actually happened?

Because that's how he lies.

Trump or Seneca?

If it's the latter, you risk being reported to the Mods and a string of shrill hysterical posts demanding your banning.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Trump or Seneca?

If it's the latter, you risk being reported to the Mods and a string of shrill hysterical posts demanding your banning.

Trump. I'm having a bad comprehension day.


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