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by ovalball
Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:20 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Is it completely unexpected that the French and possibly English unions would prefer for their to be union influence in how European rugby is run? I'd have thought they would work to keep this inside the ERC, where they have a seat at the table. Quite so. But they may have a better chance of workin...
by ovalball
Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:18 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Is it completely unexpected that the French and possibly English unions would prefer for their to be union influence in how European rugby is run? I'd have thought they would work to keep this inside the ERC, where they have a seat at the table. They have more than a seat, they fund ERC so they win...
by ovalball
Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:16 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Off you go ! Go play with yourselves for a season or two. That could well be the outcome. And it would be a great shame - both for the spectators and the sides that rely on the money. I would think it would harm somes sides much more than joining a new tournament and negotiating the best deal they ...
by ovalball
Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:10 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

fatcat wrote:
ovalball wrote:French Club President coming out more firmly about the Clubs' plans. In English.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25 ... 59,00.html
That article's 10 days old.
Thought it was strange for PR to be so up to date - I assumed it was the same as Quin put up :blush:
by ovalball
Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:08 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

camroc1 wrote:I think some of the clubs fluffers should take a serious look at how the law treats sports.
Knock yourself out.

http://www.lawinsport.com/

Unfortunately it doesn't address the current issue but their are several articles emphasising the primacy of European Law in Sport.
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:53 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

French Club President coming out more firmly about the Clubs' plans. In English.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25 ... 59,00.html
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:48 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Ouin Ouin wrote:http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/ ... xtor=RSS-1

For the non french speakers LNR president denies clubs need FFR or IRB approval to create a competition
Can you add any more detail for us monolingual Brits
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:39 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

You wouldn't be 'preventing' them playing international games, you'd just be picking 'better' players. They could even pick the odd one from the clubs to show they weren't biased. Never going to happen but Packer works both ways, it's a good case files for the Unions. Maybe in some Fantasy land, bu...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:34 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

To be fair, I have made some assumptions. Simply put - Assuming the clubs are acting legally and not in breach of contract (they appear to have followed the correct procedure re the ERC). Then preventing private businesses from going about their legitimate business interests; would fall foul of Eur...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:24 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I think it was posted earlier on this thread ( by Torquemada I think) but the FFR have virtually no power in this process. The oirishers are desperately hoping that the HEC will be saved by some committee of blazers. The truth is that 26 out of the 38 teams do not want to play in the competition. I...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:19 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

To be fair, I have made some assumptions. Simply put - Assuming the clubs are acting legally and not in breach of contract (they appear to have followed the correct procedure re the ERC). Then preventing private businesses from going about their legitimate business interests; would fall foul of Eur...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:06 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I think it was posted earlier on this thread ( by Torquemada I think) but the FFR have virtually no power in this process. The oirishers are desperately hoping that the HEC will be saved by some committee of blazers. The truth is that 26 out of the 38 teams do not want to play in the competition. I...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:02 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I think it was posted earlier on this thread ( by Torquemada I think) but the FFR have virtually no power in this process. The oirishers are desperately hoping that the HEC will be saved by some committee of blazers. The truth is that 26 out of the 38 teams do not want to play in the competition. I...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:57 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

To be fair, I have made some assumptions. Simply put - Assuming the clubs are acting legally and not in breach of contract (they appear to have followed the correct procedure re the ERC). Then preventing private businesses from going about their legitimate business interests; would fall foul of Eur...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:52 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I think it was posted earlier on this thread ( by Torquemada I think) but the FFR have virtually no power in this process. The oirishers are desperately hoping that the HEC will be saved by some committee of blazers. The truth is that 26 out of the 38 teams do not want to play in the competition. I...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:41 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I agree with ovalball here. I don't think the FFR can stop this. If there is legal action, the legal process could take a very long time with no European competition at all going on during it. It might take a while - unless the clubs could get an injunction against the Unions taking any action agai...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:31 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I agree with ovalball here. I don't think the FFR can stop this. If there is legal action, the legal process could take a very long time with no European competition at all going on during it. It might take a while - unless the clubs could get an injunction against the Unions taking any action agai...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:13 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

I agree with ovalball here. I don't think the FFR can stop this. If there is legal action, the legal process could take a very long time with no European competition at all going on during it. It might take a while - unless the clubs could get an injunction against the Unions taking any action agai...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:04 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Even if the ERC said that there would be top 8 Pro12, Aviva, Top14 plus winner Amlin and HEC winner for next year, the English and French clubs will still try to go it alone as they main issue here is not qualification criteria but who gets percentage share of the money. They want the bulk of the c...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:49 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Even if the ERC said that there would be top 8 Pro12, Aviva, Top14 plus winner Amlin and HEC winner for next year, the English and French clubs will still try to go it alone as they main issue here is not qualification criteria but who gets percentage share of the money. They want the bulk of the c...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:45 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Heineken Cup French rugby chiefs set to veto new euro tournament ESPN Staff September 22, 2013 The French Rugby Federation is set to block clubs such as Toulon from playing in any European competition that isn't organised by ERC The French Rugby Federation (FFR) looks set to block any move by the P...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:41 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Heineken Cup French rugby chiefs set to veto new euro tournament ESPN Staff September 22, 2013 The French Rugby Federation is set to block clubs such as Toulon from playing in any European competition that isn't organised by ERC The French Rugby Federation (FFR) looks set to block any move by the P...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:30 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

iarmhiman wrote:
tallback wrote:RTE reporting that the FFR have released a statement backing the ERC and HCup. Criticised their clubs too. That'll stir it up a bit.
Won't make the slightest bit of difference.
Amonst all the hysteria, something we can all agree on.
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

How can this be good fr the English or French game? the increased costs for both leagues will be to the detriment of English clubs -how many are actually making a profit? The number of overseas players currently propping up the French T14 is killing the French team. I .could see a lot more SH playe...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:27 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

How can this be good fr the English or French game? the increased costs for both leagues will be to the detriment of English clubs -how many are actually making a profit? The number of overseas players currently propping up the French T14 is killing the French team. I .could see a lot more SH playe...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:09 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Earlier on today I pointed out Hypocrisy No. 1 from English rugby - revenue should be split according to size of TV market (but we'll pay NZ half the proceeds when we play them at Twickenham despite the NZ TV market being about 4.5m - and often that market would have to be awake at 3am). Hypocrisy ...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:21 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Earlier on today I pointed out Hypocrisy No. 1 from English rugby - revenue should be split according to size of TV market (but we'll pay NZ half the proceeds when we play them at Twickenham despite the NZ TV market being about 4.5m - and often that market would have to be awake at 3am). Hypocrisy ...
by ovalball
Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:04 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Earlier on today I pointed out Hypocrisy No. 1 from English rugby - revenue should be split according to size of TV market (but we'll pay NZ half the proceeds when we play them at Twickenham despite the NZ TV market being about 4.5m - and often that market would have to be awake at 3am). Hypocrisy ...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:11 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Bod wrote:
+1

Far too up themselves
Got your quotes all wrong there Bod.
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:16 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

malky wrote:How do Argentina cope?
If Argentina were regularly beating the top nations when it mattered you might have a point.[/quote]

Their record against the 6N sides is quite healthy over the last decade or so. I seem to remember them dumping Ireland out of a world Cup not so long ago.
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:05 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

fatcat wrote:
On the other hand the English and French clubs will be getting a significant extra amount that will enable them to sign all the best players from the Pro12.
Oh give over!
For most of PRL clubs it will just mean they can get into the black.
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:01 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

If TV market share is the deciding factor can you tell me why the RFU hand over such a large percentage of the proceeds when they play a certain SH country with a population of 4.5m? I'm just curious You could always do a marketing degree. Boiling everything down to black and white strawman riddled...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:55 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

If TV market share is the deciding factor can you tell me why the RFU hand over such a large percentage of the proceeds when they play a certain SH country with a population of 4.5m? I'm just curious You could always do a marketing degree. Boiling everything down to black and white strawman riddled...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:45 pm
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

There is no doubt that the clubs from Ireland, in particular, and the other Rabo Countries, do add value to the product and increase the demand in the countries (clubs) with larger TV audiences, that they are playing against. But that is only a fraction of the games. For the French and English clubs...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:59 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

A good mediator will plant the basis of solution and make it appear it came from the parties. Sadly they are not dealing with waring 3 year olds. They may act like it but I think they might spot that shit It doesn't bloody work with 3year olds. Much easier with Adults because they want to be believ...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:35 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

A good mediator will plant the basis of solution and make it appear it came from the parties. I know what you mean. But the gist of a mediation is finding out what both sides want. I just don't see how that's compatible right now. Also, I don't know about your experience in the area, but as my old ...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:17 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

A good mediator will plant the basis of solution and make it appear it came from the parties. Sadly they are not dealing with waring 3 year olds. They may act like it but I think they might spot that shit It doesn't bloody work with 3year olds. Much easier with Adults because they want to be believ...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:44 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

He'd have more chance brokering a Palestines/Israeli settlement But he wouldnt be there to judge or suggest a solution, just confirm there was a dispute, whilst using some legal speak. I had high hopes for this mediator. Another f**king joke in this long like of farcical situations. To be fair, the...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:52 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

He'd have more chance brokering a Palestines/Israeli settlement But he wouldnt be there to judge or suggest a solution, just confirm there was a dispute, whilst using some legal speak. I had high hopes for this mediator. Another f**king joke in this long like of farcical situations. To be fair, the...
by ovalball
Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:40 am
Forum: Rugby Forum
Topic: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray
Replies: 22435
Views: 769185

Re: English teams should opt out of HEC says Wray

Mew's role is not that of arbitrator. He will not be assessing the various arguments and forming an opinion that would be binding or otherwise. Mew showed his independent mind during the summer when he heard an appeal brought by the International Rugby Board after the Australia captain, James Horwi...