Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:43 pm
eldanielfire wrote:There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.
Jesus wept. :lol:

If there was anyone who could benefit for a week in the port of Rotterdam to get a slight grasp on the scale of the world it’s eldan.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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bimboman wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:25 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:13 pm I don’t want to sound like an arse, but the country is opening up. People will die and some will have to stay home but it really is the greater good at stake. We’ve done our best, fcuked the economy, stayed home for a year. But it’s done now.


Now that I completely agree with. And no you don’t sound like an arse. While I’ve got you, do you know a builder who’d contract in the Bury area to install an oil tank, boiler and paint the outside of a bungalow. ?
https://www.oiltankchange.co.uk/
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

bimboman wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:11 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:19 pm
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:43 pm
As an aside what do you think Boris should have done with the ten thousand truckers arriving in the UK every day from the continent? Quarantine them?
Yup. Alternatively insist they don't leave their trucks and UK companies arrange to offload their produce themselves ands end the trucks back, which isn't fare from what happens now.

It's also an example once again of why the UK needs to be more self sustaining, hence why I've touted the Preston/Detroit model of town/city regeneration and community wealth building on here before. An issue with the west's entire economic systems is the complete dependence on and reliance and intellectual obsession with overseas trade being increased and big corporations being supported. Despite the obvious lack of actual trickle down and wealth spread and the decline of the middle classes and the rich getting richer.
Stop being ridiculous. The UK could not have quarantined 10,000 truckers every day - and neither could we have policed every delivery. It was not possible to hermetically seal the borders given our reliance on goods from the continent and their method of transit. Comparisons with Australasia are complete bunkum.
There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.


You think it’s practical to separate a truck from its driver and therefore hold the goods in the truck for 10 days ?

Has it even crossed your synapse that many of those 730,000 rooms are quite some distance from Kent? Or as an alternative you think that 250,000 tonnes of goods (much of which would require specialised load and store equipment) could be trans shipped in the car park at Dover ?

I can’t even explain how ludicrous that thought actually is. For an idea of scale the “yard” where I work loads and unloads 40 trucks a day (80% palletised ) and that yard is 500 by 75 metres squared and employs 35 staff.
I believe the driver can either stay in the truck or quarantine if they need to leave it. You do realise that I've pointed out the goods can be unpacked without the driver's involvement?

As I said only a fraction of the Seven hundred thousand rooms be needed and a fraction is certainly in or around the kent area. After all Dover alone doesn't get 10,000 trucks. Just 2000. I see Kent has around 33,000 rooms for accomodation.
ovalball
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:07 am
bimboman wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:11 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:19 pm

Yup. Alternatively insist they don't leave their trucks and UK companies arrange to offload their produce themselves ands end the trucks back, which isn't fare from what happens now.

It's also an example once again of why the UK needs to be more self sustaining, hence why I've touted the Preston/Detroit model of town/city regeneration and community wealth building on here before. An issue with the west's entire economic systems is the complete dependence on and reliance and intellectual obsession with overseas trade being increased and big corporations being supported. Despite the obvious lack of actual trickle down and wealth spread and the decline of the middle classes and the rich getting richer.
Stop being ridiculous. The UK could not have quarantined 10,000 truckers every day - and neither could we have policed every delivery. It was not possible to hermetically seal the borders given our reliance on goods from the continent and their method of transit. Comparisons with Australasia are complete bunkum.
There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.


You think it’s practical to separate a truck from its driver and therefore hold the goods in the truck for 10 days ?

Has it even crossed your synapse that many of those 730,000 rooms are quite some distance from Kent? Or as an alternative you think that 250,000 tonnes of goods (much of which would require specialised load and store equipment) could be trans shipped in the car park at Dover ?

I can’t even explain how ludicrous that thought actually is. For an idea of scale the “yard” where I work loads and unloads 40 trucks a day (80% palletised ) and that yard is 500 by 75 metres squared and employs 35 staff.
I believe the driver can either stay in the truck or quarantine if they need to leave it. You do realise that I've pointed out the goods can be unpacked without the driver's involvement?

As I said only a fraction of the Seven hundred thousand rooms be needed and a fraction is certainly in or around the kent area. After all Dover alone doesn't get 10,000 trucks. Just 2000. I see Kent has around 33,000 rooms for accomodation.
In all honesty, it isn't really pracical for Truckers to quarantine in Hotel rooms - logistically it just doesn't work. The current Government rules sound quite sensible - there really isn't much, if any, need for Truck Drivers to use hotel rooms in any case. They are, effectively, just required to stay in their cabs as much as is feasible, and to take precautions if they have to leave the cab for essential reaons.
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guy smiley
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by guy smiley »

Can’t believe an apparently advanced country hasn’t moved to rail freight between transport hubs.
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:43 pm
eldanielfire wrote:There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.
Jesus wept. :lol:
It’s mental the places Zero Coviders go when faced with reality
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:21 am Can’t believe an apparently advanced country hasn’t moved to rail freight between transport hubs.
Let's not get on our high horse here, Sydney here..... :blush:
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JamesJames
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by JamesJames »

This thread has become a hilarious joust between Bimbo desperately trying to get the pubs re-opened and Eldan and others prissily trying to zero covid at all costs.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

ovalball wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:16 am
In all honesty, it isn't really pracical for Truckers to quarantine in Hotel rooms - logistically it just doesn't work. The current Government rules sound quite sensible - there really isn't much, if any, need for Truck Drivers to use hotel rooms in any case. They are, effectively, just required to stay in their cabs as much as is feasible, and to take precautions if they have to leave the cab for essential reaons.
I did say the alternative is they can stay in their trucks and others unload. A point those in a hissy fit claiming it can't be done missed as a part of my argument. But in reality some will need to stay over for longer potentially so quarantine must be in the possibility of actions.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:49 pm
bimboman wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:25 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:13 pm I don’t want to sound like an arse, but the country is opening up. People will die and some will have to stay home but it really is the greater good at stake. We’ve done our best, fcuked the economy, stayed home for a year. But it’s done now.


Now that I completely agree with. And no you don’t sound like an arse. While I’ve got you, do you know a builder who’d contract in the Bury area to install an oil tank, boiler and paint the outside of a bungalow. ?
https://www.oiltankchange.co.uk/


Thank you.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:14 am
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:43 pm
eldanielfire wrote:There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.
Jesus wept. :lol:
It’s mental the places Zero Coviders go when faced with reality
The reality is we have far more hotel rooms than people who need to enter the country in a pandemic. Even in Kent.

Also I don't believe zero coviders is possible. Just there are actions the government could have taken that would greatly reduce the spread which is one of the worst in the entire world and didn't need to be. Especially when we have seen countries do an excellent job and could have at least learorm them for the Winter peak.
bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:07 am
bimboman wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:11 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:19 pm

Yup. Alternatively insist they don't leave their trucks and UK companies arrange to offload their produce themselves ands end the trucks back, which isn't fare from what happens now.

It's also an example once again of why the UK needs to be more self sustaining, hence why I've touted the Preston/Detroit model of town/city regeneration and community wealth building on here before. An issue with the west's entire economic systems is the complete dependence on and reliance and intellectual obsession with overseas trade being increased and big corporations being supported. Despite the obvious lack of actual trickle down and wealth spread and the decline of the middle classes and the rich getting richer.
Stop being ridiculous. The UK could not have quarantined 10,000 truckers every day - and neither could we have policed every delivery. It was not possible to hermetically seal the borders given our reliance on goods from the continent and their method of transit. Comparisons with Australasia are complete bunkum.
There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.


You think it’s practical to separate a truck from its driver and therefore hold the goods in the truck for 10 days ?

Has it even crossed your synapse that many of those 730,000 rooms are quite some distance from Kent? Or as an alternative you think that 250,000 tonnes of goods (much of which would require specialised load and store equipment) could be trans shipped in the car park at Dover ?

I can’t even explain how ludicrous that thought actually is. For an idea of scale the “yard” where I work loads and unloads 40 trucks a day (80% palletised ) and that yard is 500 by 75 metres squared and employs 35 staff.
I believe the driver can either stay in the truck or quarantine if they need to leave it. You do realise that I've pointed out the goods can be unpacked without the driver's involvement?

As I said only a fraction of the Seven hundred thousand rooms be needed and a fraction is certainly in or around the kent area. After all Dover alone doesn't get 10,000 trucks. Just 2000. I see Kent has around 33,000 rooms for accomodation.


If they “stay in there trucks” how are they to deal with their waste !

Ok, Dover and the Eurotunnel .....

As I’ve pointed out 35 staff, 500 metres by 75 area for 40 lorries a day.

Do the maths for even 2,000 but more like 8,000.

You’re so far wrong on scale and practical issues (where do the extra drivers and rigs come from for example). As to demand hover trucks or sum such.


Seriously stop it you look very silly.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:11 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:07 am
bimboman wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:11 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm
Stop being ridiculous. The UK could not have quarantined 10,000 truckers every day - and neither could we have policed every delivery. It was not possible to hermetically seal the borders given our reliance on goods from the continent and their method of transit. Comparisons with Australasia are complete bunkum.
There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.


You think it’s practical to separate a truck from its driver and therefore hold the goods in the truck for 10 days ?

Has it even crossed your synapse that many of those 730,000 rooms are quite some distance from Kent? Or as an alternative you think that 250,000 tonnes of goods (much of which would require specialised load and store equipment) could be trans shipped in the car park at Dover ?

I can’t even explain how ludicrous that thought actually is. For an idea of scale the “yard” where I work loads and unloads 40 trucks a day (80% palletised ) and that yard is 500 by 75 metres squared and employs 35 staff.
I believe the driver can either stay in the truck or quarantine if they need to leave it. You do realise that I've pointed out the goods can be unpacked without the driver's involvement?

As I said only a fraction of the Seven hundred thousand rooms be needed and a fraction is certainly in or around the kent area. After all Dover alone doesn't get 10,000 trucks. Just 2000. I see Kent has around 33,000 rooms for accomodation.


If they “stay in there trucks” how are they to deal with their waste !

Ok, Dover and the Eurotunnel .....

As I’ve pointed out 35 staff, 500 metres by 75 area for 40 lorries a day.

Do the maths for even 2,000 but more like 8,000.

You’re so far wrong on scale and practical issues (where do the extra drivers and rigs come from for example). As to demand hover trucks or sum such.


Seriously stop it you look very silly.
The maths says Dover gets 2000 people a day a the start of the year with reduced trade, which is what will happen in a pandemic. Domestic staff unpacking do not need to isolate. They can shit on the boat before and after, or in quarantine if warranted. Yes there are more logistics and a big effort needed, but saying "But the trucks" in your usual hysterical hard right voice doesn't mean it can't be done.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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Given how much you’re posting on here and NPR I suspect that yard might get away with only 34 people.
bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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ScarfaceClaw wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:17 am Given how much you’re posting on here and NPR I suspect that yard might get away with only 34 people.

As, that’s a very sweet plebeian post.


Good for you.
bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

The maths says Dover gets 2000 people a day a the start of the year with reduced trade, which is what will happen in a pandemic. Domestic staff unpacking do not need to isolate. They can shit on the boat before and after, or in quarantine if warranted. Yes there are more logistics and a big effort needed, but saying "But the trucks" in your usual hysterical hard right voice doesn't mean it can't be done.

By more logistics, you think having an area of 100 by 15 kilometres of hard stand and 7,000 spare qualified staff all close enough to the ports is somehow practical....

I’m not being hysterical I’m literally pointing out the ludicrously childish and ill thought out impossibility you’re presenting as if it’s doable. I realise that posting against my views is fine for props, but please notice no one has rowed in to support your idiocy.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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ScarfaceClaw wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:17 am Given how much you’re posting on here and NPR I suspect that yard might get away with only 34 people.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:07 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:14 am
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:43 pm
eldanielfire wrote:There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.
Jesus wept. :lol:
It’s mental the places Zero Coviders go when faced with reality
The reality is we have far more hotel rooms than people who need to enter the country in a pandemic. Even in Kent.

Also I don't believe zero coviders is possible. Just there are actions the government could have taken that would greatly reduce the spread which is one of the worst in the entire world and didn't need to be. Especially when we have seen countries do an excellent job and could have at least learorm them for the Winter peak.
This is a nonsense. It wouldn't have reduced spread.

There is a logic to what Australia and New Zealand do as they tried to isolate any border breaches quickly and test like lunatics on people who came into contact with them. If the spread appears bad and the people infected have been off meeting all and sundry, they might try a localised lockdown. Or they might have a short sharp lockdown of the wider geographic region. But if that doesn't work you have two scenarios. One was Auckland in August where when the cluster grew beyond the contact tracers that you had a 3 week lockdown. The other was Melbourne in July where the virus simply went out of control again and they had a several month lockdown.

Once the thing seeds, it will grow again without significant steps to mitigate it. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make given you say that you do not advocate for Zero. Border quarantine is a huge step that will cause huge damage to many people's lives, if you aren't even striving for Zero Covid, what in the name of God are you going for? All you are doing is creating a hardship for a pointless outcome with absolutely no get out without a vaccine.

Hotel quarantine is just Western people liking the look of New Zealand defense forces patrolling them, the outcomes are important. It is a lazy and disproportionate policy suggestion in the context of European countries.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:55 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:07 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:14 am
Gospel wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:43 pm
eldanielfire wrote:There are 730,258 hotel rooms in the UK. Given the massive drop in travel during COVID I'm sure 1 in 70 hotel rooms were free at the least. It is entirely possible to quarantine them if they need to stay. The alternative also is they don't leave their trucks at port if they can unpack there.
Jesus wept. :lol:
It’s mental the places Zero Coviders go when faced with reality
The reality is we have far more hotel rooms than people who need to enter the country in a pandemic. Even in Kent.

Also I don't believe zero coviders is possible. Just there are actions the government could have taken that would greatly reduce the spread which is one of the worst in the entire world and didn't need to be. Especially when we have seen countries do an excellent job and could have at least learorm them for the Winter peak.
This is a nonsense. It wouldn't have reduced spread.

There is a logic to what Australia and New Zealand do as they tried to isolate any border breaches quickly and test like lunatics on people who came into contact with them. If the spread appears bad and the people infected have been off meeting all and sundry, they might try a localised lockdown. Or they might have a short sharp lockdown of the wider geographic region. But if that doesn't work you have two scenarios. One was Auckland in August where when the cluster grew beyond the contact tracers that you had a 3 week lockdown. The other was Melbourne in July where the virus simply went out of control again and they had a several month lockdown.

Once the thing seeds, it will grow again without significant steps to mitigate it. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make given you say that you do not advocate for Zero. Border quarantine is a huge step that will cause huge damage to many people's lives, if you aren't even striving for Zero Covid, what in the name of God are you going for? All you are doing is creating a hardship for a pointless outcome with absolutely no get out without a vaccine.

Hotel quarantine is just Western people liking the look of New Zealand defense forces patrolling them, the outcomes are important. It is a lazy and disproportionate policy suggestion in the context of European countries.
It's not lazy given the European countries have all had border closures at some point. So stop droning on about zero covid, a term and idea I have never expressed, talk about lazy arguments.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

I'm not liking this particular demand:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... strictions

EU tells six countries to lift Covid border restrictions
Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary and Sweden put on notice over curbs to free movement

Coronavirus – latest updates
See all our coronavirus coverage
Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Tue 23 Feb 2021 16.40 GMTLast modified on Tue 23 Feb 2021 17.33 GMT
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Brussels has put six EU member states on notice that their tight Covid border restrictions, including exit and entry bans, should be lifted over fears of a wider breakdown in the bloc’s free movement of people and goods.

Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary and Sweden have been given 10 days to respond to the European commission’s concerns that they have breached commonly agreed coronavirus guidelines.

Restrictions imposed by Germany at its border with the Austrian Tirol region have been a particular cause of tension in recent weeks, with the German ambassador in Vienna summoned to justify the “unnecessary measures that do more harm than good”.

There are concerns in Germany, however, that the country could be heading into a third wave of infection, with the number of cases per 100,000 residents in the last seven days at 60.5 – up from 55-57 the previous week.

The commission published its guidelines in January recommending EU member states keep open their borders and only “strongly discourage” non-essential travel, with the option of imposing testing and quarantine requirements on travellers from areas with high levels of infection.

The commission’s president, Ursula von der Leyen, a former German minister, has said she is determined to avoid a repeat of the early months of the pandemic when a series of unilateral decisions caused chaos at the borders and threatened supply chains.

But in recent weeks, stricter controls have been applied by the six countries targeted by the EU’s executive branch, in what a commission spokesman said presented a clear risk to the functioning of the single market in goods and people.


“We underline the need for free movement restrictions to be non-discriminatory and proportionate, and we urge member states to align their provisions, more closely with the commission recommendations that we have jointly agreed, and review [their] rules on free movement,” a commission spokesman said.

The contentious new border controls include a broad ban on non-essential travel imposed by the governments of Belgium and Sweden and the selective entry restrictions enforced by the German government on traffic from Austria’s Tirol region, the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Currently only German citizens, foreign residents and essential workers are allowed to cross the border.

On Tuesday, Austria’s chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, tweeted a call for “common standards for travel and the transport of goods within the EU to ensure the functioning of the single market”.

“It is a necessity to go back to a coordinated approach to all the measures taken in relations with the free movement of people and goods in the European Union,” the EU commissioner for justice, Didier Reynders, a former Belgian minister, said.

Germany’s Europe minister, Michael Roth, insisted his government needed to act due to its exposure as “a transit country in the middle of the European Union”.

He said: “I reject the accusation that we have not complied with EU law … These measures obviously put a massive strain on border regions, commuters and the transport of goods and the single market, but the protection of our citizens is paramount.”

The restrictions on the German-Austrian border were enforced earlier this month over concern at the high incidence in the Czech Republic and Tirol of the newer more infectious coronavirus variant first identified in the UK.

A commission spokesman said: “We trust that we will find solutions with member states concerns without having to revert to legal steps, which can be lengthy. So, member states have now 10 days to reply and we will then take it from there.”

As 2021 unfolds ...
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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The Czech Republic will need to tighten measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus to prevent a “catastrophe” in hospitals in the coming weeks, Prime Minister Andrej Babis said on Wednesday.

“Hellish days await us,” Babis said at a news conference.
The government is due to hold talks throughout the day on possible further measures.

The Czech Republic has the worst per capita rate of infection in the EU. The death rate is also among the worst in the bloc. Nearly 1.2 cases have been confirmed so far in the country of under 11m, with 15,672 new cases recorded on Tuesday. 19,682 people have died.

Babis has faced opposition criticism for his management of the crisis. “We don’t want [the COVID-19 effort] to be run chaotically as it has been, where the prime minister receives an SMS and then says we have to do this or that,” Ivan Bartoš, chairman of the opposition Czech Pirates, told Politico this week. “It is really chaotic. We want a strategy based on scientific analysis and data.”
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:30 am [
It's not lazy given the European countries have all had border closures at some point. So stop droning on about zero covid, a term and idea I have never expressed, talk about lazy arguments.
At some point

You mean most of them had time limited closures where residents could get in and out.

What you proposed was a mandatory hotel quarantine system that you have no idea of what the outcomes you wanted from it ("I'm not advocating Zero Covid) and with no time limit or way out, which was critical with no vaccines. The stuff on truck drivers was laughable for instance, in terms of infection control you'd be better off just letting them at it themselves. You were proposing a haphazard system of Holiday Inn like quarantine where people could get Covid off them quite easily. What is actually the point when you yourself say that you aren't advocating Zero Covid?

The Aussie and NZ system works because it is tightly controlled. They know that one seeding event can lead to a Melbourne so they are routinely imposing various forms of shot term lockdowns.

If you want hotel quarantine with dressed up soldiers with guns cos it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, do what South Korea have done. They have hotel quarantine for short term visitors, this basically discourages tourism. They do not impose such a ridiculous open ended hardship on their residents though, they can quarantine at home within strict limits including PCR tests.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:30 am [
It's not lazy given the European countries have all had border closures at some point. So stop droning on about zero covid, a term and idea I have never expressed, talk about lazy arguments.
At some point

You mean most of them had time limited closures where residents could get in and out.

What you proposed was a mandatory hotel quarantine system that you have no idea of what the outcomes you wanted from it ("I'm not advocating Zero Covid) and with no time limit or way out, which was critical with no vaccines. The stuff on truck drivers was laughable for instance, in terms of infection control you'd be better off just letting them at it themselves. You were proposing a haphazard system of Holiday Inn like quarantine where people could get Covid off them quite easily. What is actually the point when you yourself say that you aren't advocating Zero Covid?

The Aussie and NZ system works because it is tightly controlled. They know that one seeding event can lead to a Melbourne so they are routinely imposing various forms of shot term lockdowns.

If you want hotel quarantine with dressed up soldiers with guns cos it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, do what South Korea have done. They have hotel quarantine for short term visitors, this basically discourages tourism. They do not impose such a ridiculous open ended hardship on their residents though, they can quarantine at home within strict limits including PCR tests.
We largely can't do what South Korea did last year due to the lack of test and trace. Also tourism was badly hit by extended lockdowns. Taking actions that have shown to reduce lockdown times, deaths and economic damage is what's best for residents and of course always desirable in a pandemic.

The rest of your post is mostly lazy assumptions of my motivations, inventing arguments not actually made and creating strawman positions.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:50 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:30 am [
It's not lazy given the European countries have all had border closures at some point. So stop droning on about zero covid, a term and idea I have never expressed, talk about lazy arguments.
At some point

You mean most of them had time limited closures where residents could get in and out.

What you proposed was a mandatory hotel quarantine system that you have no idea of what the outcomes you wanted from it ("I'm not advocating Zero Covid) and with no time limit or way out, which was critical with no vaccines. The stuff on truck drivers was laughable for instance, in terms of infection control you'd be better off just letting them at it themselves. You were proposing a haphazard system of Holiday Inn like quarantine where people could get Covid off them quite easily. What is actually the point when you yourself say that you aren't advocating Zero Covid?

The Aussie and NZ system works because it is tightly controlled. They know that one seeding event can lead to a Melbourne so they are routinely imposing various forms of shot term lockdowns.

If you want hotel quarantine with dressed up soldiers with guns cos it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, do what South Korea have done. They have hotel quarantine for short term visitors, this basically discourages tourism. They do not impose such a ridiculous open ended hardship on their residents though, they can quarantine at home within strict limits including PCR tests.
We largely can't do what South Korea did last year due to the lack of test and trace. Also tourism was badly hit by extended lockdowns. Taking actions that have shown to reduce lockdown times, deaths and economic damage is what's best for residents and of course always desirable in a pandemic.

The rest of your post is mostly lazy assumptions of my motivations, inventing arguments not actually made and creating strawman positions.
More gibberish.

You are a proposing a policy that is more draconian than what they have. The threat of a policeman knocking at the door is more proportionate than hotel quarantines.

I understand now that people have pointed out the practicalities that you don't want to commit to being Zero Covid. The same has happened here - go for Zero Covid tactics but don't commit to the strategy as you will be called out if and when it fails.

You are failing over and over to come up with a succinct strategy backed up with workable tactics, just an obsession with hotel quarantines. The facts are that the virus will break out to the community beyond 100 cases and beyond enhanced contact tracers, if you are not advocating for Zero Covid then you are not advocating for anything worthwhile with regards to them for a country like the UK.

Open ended hotel quarantine will lead to higher prices for travel and harsh challenges for British residents if they need to go home for family reasons. It will also impact on the supply chain of the UK due to reduced travel as the number of flights and boats reduces due to demand. The prize of that society wise has to be big - and the Kiwis and Aussies argue that it is worth it, but you are not arguing for anything at all as you are claiming to distance yourself from their strategy.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by eldanielfire »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:11 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:50 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:30 am [
It's not lazy given the European countries have all had border closures at some point. So stop droning on about zero covid, a term and idea I have never expressed, talk about lazy arguments.
At some point

You mean most of them had time limited closures where residents could get in and out.

What you proposed was a mandatory hotel quarantine system that you have no idea of what the outcomes you wanted from it ("I'm not advocating Zero Covid) and with no time limit or way out, which was critical with no vaccines. The stuff on truck drivers was laughable for instance, in terms of infection control you'd be better off just letting them at it themselves. You were proposing a haphazard system of Holiday Inn like quarantine where people could get Covid off them quite easily. What is actually the point when you yourself say that you aren't advocating Zero Covid?

The Aussie and NZ system works because it is tightly controlled. They know that one seeding event can lead to a Melbourne so they are routinely imposing various forms of shot term lockdowns.

If you want hotel quarantine with dressed up soldiers with guns cos it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, do what South Korea have done. They have hotel quarantine for short term visitors, this basically discourages tourism. They do not impose such a ridiculous open ended hardship on their residents though, they can quarantine at home within strict limits including PCR tests.
We largely can't do what South Korea did last year due to the lack of test and trace. Also tourism was badly hit by extended lockdowns. Taking actions that have shown to reduce lockdown times, deaths and economic damage is what's best for residents and of course always desirable in a pandemic.

The rest of your post is mostly lazy assumptions of my motivations, inventing arguments not actually made and creating strawman positions.
More gibberish.

You are a proposing a policy that is more draconian than what they have. The threat of a policeman knocking at the door is more proportionate than hotel quarantines.
The gibberish is you throwing out Zero COVID terms not previous referenced or argued for or against in this conversation and then claiming to know my feelings and motivations on the matter. You've brought in how border controls are bad for residents while completely ignoring they shorten down lockdown times which is obviously bad for all references. The going on about all this travel with hotels prices during a lockdown where they mostly aren't used :lol:
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Blackrock Bullet
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:25 pm
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:11 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:50 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am
eldanielfire wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:30 am [
It's not lazy given the European countries have all had border closures at some point. So stop droning on about zero covid, a term and idea I have never expressed, talk about lazy arguments.
At some point

You mean most of them had time limited closures where residents could get in and out.

What you proposed was a mandatory hotel quarantine system that you have no idea of what the outcomes you wanted from it ("I'm not advocating Zero Covid) and with no time limit or way out, which was critical with no vaccines. The stuff on truck drivers was laughable for instance, in terms of infection control you'd be better off just letting them at it themselves. You were proposing a haphazard system of Holiday Inn like quarantine where people could get Covid off them quite easily. What is actually the point when you yourself say that you aren't advocating Zero Covid?

The Aussie and NZ system works because it is tightly controlled. They know that one seeding event can lead to a Melbourne so they are routinely imposing various forms of shot term lockdowns.

If you want hotel quarantine with dressed up soldiers with guns cos it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, do what South Korea have done. They have hotel quarantine for short term visitors, this basically discourages tourism. They do not impose such a ridiculous open ended hardship on their residents though, they can quarantine at home within strict limits including PCR tests.
We largely can't do what South Korea did last year due to the lack of test and trace. Also tourism was badly hit by extended lockdowns. Taking actions that have shown to reduce lockdown times, deaths and economic damage is what's best for residents and of course always desirable in a pandemic.

The rest of your post is mostly lazy assumptions of my motivations, inventing arguments not actually made and creating strawman positions.
More gibberish.

You are a proposing a policy that is more draconian than what they have. The threat of a policeman knocking at the door is more proportionate than hotel quarantines.
The gibberish is you throwing out Zero COVID terms not previous referenced or argued for or against in this conversation and then claiming to know my feelings and motivations on the matter. You've brought in how border controls are bad for residents while completely ignoring they shorten down lockdown times which is obviously bad for all references. The going on about all this travel with hotels prices during a lockdown where they mostly aren't used :lol:
But what is your strategy?

You are saying that it will lead to reduced lockdowns, that is the very basis of Zero Covid and their strategy. You have literally cited Australia above so please do not distance yourself from it.

But the point we are all making is that it won't because of the sheer number of people crossing the supply chain in this densely populated part of the world. The Aussies and Kiwis are not letting thousands truck drivers roam the length of the country after coming in, electing where and when they will go for a night's sleep. Your statement on "thousands of hotel rooms" in itself was laughable. Australia and New Zealand carefully manage their hotels. That's because they've had outbreaks where they have either been pointed to, for example;

i) cleaning linen
ii) cold stores
iii) mingling between hotel staff members and the prison...sorry "guests"
iv) air conditioning spreading it around the hotel

Indeed, Australia are even concerned about their locations, talking about moving them to more rural areas.
The Queensland government says the risk of a potential quarantine breach, especially in light of the more contagious UK strain, means hotel quarantine in congested areas is rapidly becoming unfeasible.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 56w8m.html

So again, given the fact that the UK simply has far more people coming in and out daily, it would simply not work with your Holiday Inn type self management.

And we have discussed what happens when they have breaches, they go for blanket testing and lockdowns. So what you would have is these happening all over the UK, all of the time. With no end in sight.

It's just a disproportionate and poorly thought out idea given the costs to it for residents of your country, both economically and socially.
bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 05124.html


:lol:


More seriously of course is we now will have restrictions every winter.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:59 pm https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 05124.html


:lol:


More seriously of course is we now will have restrictions every winter.
I don’t know if it’s the social distancing or the mask wearing that’s done it
I could take a guess.... and also maybe the fact that everyone over 50 was offered a flu jab this year.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:53 pm
bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:59 pm https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 05124.html


:lol:


More seriously of course is we now will have restrictions every winter.
I don’t know if it’s the social distancing or the mask wearing that’s done it
I could take a guess.... and also maybe the fact that everyone over 50 was offered a flu jab this year.


You’re a shill for the dreadful Hancock I’d take medical advice from Dr Shipman before listening to you.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Frodder »

bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:58 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:53 pm
bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:59 pm https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 05124.html


:lol:


More seriously of course is we now will have restrictions every winter.
I don’t know if it’s the social distancing or the mask wearing that’s done it
I could take a guess.... and also maybe the fact that everyone over 50 was offered a flu jab this year.

You’re a shill for the dreadful Hancock I’d take medical advice from Dr Shipman before listening to you.
What happened to the days when Message and Bimbo were a dynamic duo, like Burke and Hare?
bimboman
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

Frodder wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:13 pm
bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:58 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:53 pm
bimboman wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:59 pm https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 05124.html


:lol:


More seriously of course is we now will have restrictions every winter.
I don’t know if it’s the social distancing or the mask wearing that’s done it
I could take a guess.... and also maybe the fact that everyone over 50 was offered a flu jab this year.

You’re a shill for the dreadful Hancock I’d take medical advice from Dr Shipman before listening to you.
What happened to the days when Message and Bimbo were a dynamic duo, like Burke and Hare?

I stuck to my principals ...... for all the stupid accusations regarding “Tory regardless” I’ve not liked much of the domestic policy for years.

I did warn / explain that Boris wasn’t anything more than a centralist who wanted to be liked rather than an actual Tory or libertarian (as we have now all witnessed ) .
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