The Official Irish Rugby Thread

All things Rugby
User avatar
redderneck
Posts: 15927
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: We'll Never Forget You Geordan D'Arcy

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by redderneck »

Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:35 pm
Floppykid wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:35 pm Some people are saying it's a crazy squad but I don't agree.
Think it's pretty good overall.
I don’t think it’s crazy but I don’t think it’s good either.
It's a pretty fair reflection of where we're at in NH-France. Meh.

9-10-12-13 is paint by numbers creativity.
Jumper
Posts: 7089
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:24 pm

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Jumper »

sewa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:38 pm James Ryan Lions captain :lol:
The poster-boys for "The Conveyor Belt"™, Ringrose and Ryan, don't even make the Lions squad. Puts a lot of the nonsense hype from Dublin in perspective.
User avatar
Willie Falloon
Posts: 9868
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:02 pm Think I had Curry penciled in for 7 when I said that alright.
I think he’s nailed on starter. An exceptional player and always puts in a quality performance.
User avatar
RWC2015
Posts: 4618
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:19 pm

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by RWC2015 »

Winnie wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:57 pm
Salanya wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 12:46 pm Conan over Stander - Jumper's tiny braincell is going to explode
:lol:
He's just a far better player.
eweeg
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by eweeg »

Seems to be broad consensus that Ringrose wasnt worthy of a spot but I am still just gutted for him . I am convinced he has one of the highest ceilings of any current Irish player. The timing of his injury and dip in form is pretty cruel. Massive lost opportunity for him to turn it all around.
User avatar
sewa
Posts: 22107
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by sewa »

Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:54 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:52 pm
Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:49 pm
earl the beaver wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:40 pm Seeing a few people online suggest that Hill offers more power than Ryan and that's what Gatland has gone for, probably true that Ryan isn't as powerful as most (if not all) of the secondrows selected, is this something he'll need to work on with bulking up because he does have a rangy frame?
Yes. He’s only a boy. A tall one who will fill out.
He's 25 in a couple of months.

His injury won't have helped though.
25. Exactly. Still a wee lad. He needs to start eating.
Bollocks he is 25, not 18. He is too small and will be too small
User avatar
earl the beaver
Posts: 52951
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

Gavin Duffy wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:27 pm
earl the beaver wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:58 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm Saw a good stat, Bundee’s only game against the Saffers was a 35-3 win in 2017. Alongside Henshaw in the centre
Here's another one, he is the most red carded player in the history of the Ireland rugby team.

Mad selection.
2, both bullshit tbf.
Nah, not bullshit, shoulder to the head.
User avatar
Flametop
Posts: 19321
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Flametop »

sewa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:35 pm
Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:54 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:52 pm
Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:49 pm
earl the beaver wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:40 pm Seeing a few people online suggest that Hill offers more power than Ryan and that's what Gatland has gone for, probably true that Ryan isn't as powerful as most (if not all) of the secondrows selected, is this something he'll need to work on with bulking up because he does have a rangy frame?
Yes. He’s only a boy. A tall one who will fill out.
He's 25 in a couple of months.

His injury won't have helped though.
25. Exactly. Still a wee lad. He needs to start eating.
Bollocks he is 25, not 18. He is too small and will be too small
So I guess you won’t be introducing him to your parents then?
User avatar
Willie Falloon
Posts: 9868
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

sewa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:35 pm
Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:54 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:52 pm
Flametop wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:49 pm
earl the beaver wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:40 pm Seeing a few people online suggest that Hill offers more power than Ryan and that's what Gatland has gone for, probably true that Ryan isn't as powerful as most (if not all) of the secondrows selected, is this something he'll need to work on with bulking up because he does have a rangy frame?
Yes. He’s only a boy. A tall one who will fill out.
He's 25 in a couple of months.

His injury won't have helped though.
25. Exactly. Still a wee lad. He needs to start eating.
Bollocks he is 25, not 18. He is too small and will be too small
He is not too small, he has a decent frame but he is certainly too light.

Kelleher is the unluckiest Irish player, he is as good as any of the hookers, but his line out reliability let’s him down.

Ryan and Ringrose don’t deserve to start for Ireland, never mind the Lions

R
Last edited by Willie Falloon on Thu May 06, 2021 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
sewa
Posts: 22107
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by sewa »

Second rows are supposed to be the big beasts roaming the field. He is a fine player but his physical attributes limit his ceiling.
User avatar
DOB
Posts: 20201
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

eweeg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 pm Seems to be broad consensus that Ringrose wasnt worthy of a spot but I am still just gutted for him . I am convinced he has one of the highest ceilings of any current Irish player. The timing of his injury and dip in form is pretty cruel. Massive lost opportunity for him to turn it all around.
His form just wasn't there. I think he could be one of those guys that gets called up for an injury and has an amazing tour, but based on how he's been playing lately, I really wouldn't pick him.


Unless the next best option is Bundee, tbh. That's the head scratcher of it, unless the thinking is that they need another midfielder to tackle the Boks at head height if Faz is off the pitch.
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 63376
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
User avatar
Willie Falloon
Posts: 9868
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
112kg.

He isn't small, but he is too light for his frame.
User avatar
sewa
Posts: 22107
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by sewa »

CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
Poc was a different type of animal. He was a beast.
User avatar
Minnosu
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Minnosu »

Genuinely thrilled sexton isn’t going, and I say that as one of his biggest fans. South African - lions series are wars of attrition. Gatland ball versus the springboks will be a bloodbath and sexton would not have made it out of their without a head injury.
Has nothing left to prove for the lions. Started at out half on two tours - very small list of players who’ve done that.
Started all three tests in the win over Australia and after nz hammered the lions in the first test came back in to secure a drawn series. Most successful lions outhalf in what, 50 years???

Still hold out hope he retires over the summer. Nothing left to prove for Leinster, Ireland or the lions.
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 63376
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Willie Falloon wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
112kg.

He isn't small, but he is too light for his frame.
https://www.irishrugby.ie/player/james-ryan/
User avatar
hermie
Posts: 10682
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

sewa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:30 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
Poc was a different type of animal. He was a beast.
They're identical players ffs. Will Ryan go on to have the same career as POC? Obviously that's a tall order and shouldn't really be expected of anyone. But I don't see what's so different about them.

On the topic, some performance by Skelton. I still contest you don't get that kind of 80 min display out of a guy that size without a ref who likes the sound of his own whistle, plus lads regularly taking a knee etc.
User avatar
Willie Falloon
Posts: 9868
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:37 am
Willie Falloon wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
112kg.

He isn't small, but he is too light for his frame.
https://www.irishrugby.ie/player/james-ryan/
doesn't change the fact he is too light and lacking in power. Toner is both taller and heavier but there isn't a chance he has the required power to match to play at this level. Flopping on rucks won't cut it.
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 63376
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

I must have imagined all those excellent games Ryan had when he clearly showed he was physical enough.

He's been injured and then concussed. He looks hesitant, not weak.
Jumper
Posts: 7089
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:24 pm

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Jumper »

James Ryan was ragdolled by Conor Murray two weeks ago. A lock that gets thrown about by a 9 isn't in a place to play SA on a Lions tour.
User avatar
Mr. Very Popular
Posts: 21732
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:58 pm

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:51 am I must have imagined all those excellent games Ryan had when he clearly showed he was physical enough.

He's been injured and then concussed. He looks hesitant, not weak.
Take it up with Gatland.
Hopefully, the fact he's been called out openly on it will make him work to get it back.
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 63376
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Mr. Very Popular wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:19 am
CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:51 am I must have imagined all those excellent games Ryan had when he clearly showed he was physical enough.

He's been injured and then concussed. He looks hesitant, not weak.
Take it up with Gatland.
I'm replying to Willie.

Gatland would not be saying the same if the Lions was being picked in 2019 rather than now and you know it. There is nothing wrong with Ryan not going, we all expected as much, but it's because he's in poor form not because his best isn't good enough.
User avatar
redderneck
Posts: 15927
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: We'll Never Forget You Geordan D'Arcy

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by redderneck »

CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:51 am I must have imagined all those excellent games Ryan had when he clearly showed he was physical enough.

He's been injured and then concussed. He looks hesitant, not weak.
Yup. Shades of Wally when he came back from his injury. Took him the guts of a year, maybe even ayear and a half before he had his edge back. Physically there, but not backing himself 100% - and frankly, who the hell could blame him/them? Fine, fine margins.
User avatar
anonymous_joe
Posts: 15731
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

Tbh, the players who didn't make it will get a proper rest and pre-season. Could be hugely beneficial for Leinster and Ireland next season to have a fresher Ryan, Ringrose and Larmour. (Although Larmour was never going to make it.)
User avatar
Gavin Duffy
Posts: 17059
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Gavin Duffy »

Could someone throw up franno's article for the craic?
Monk Zombie
Posts: 4764
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

Ryan simply lacks the ticker

how many games have we seen him fade away when the going gets tough?

Henderson on the other hand ...
User avatar
camroc1
Posts: 43518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

anonymous_joe wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:14 am Tbh, the players who didn't make it will get a proper rest and pre-season. Could be hugely beneficial for Leinster and Ireland next season to have a fresher Ryan, Ringrose and Larmour. (Although Larmour was never going to make it.)
Leinster looked underdone after the 6Ns. I think it's just the way the season went with so many Ireland camps meaning that the strongest Leinster 15 didn't play together in the Pro 14 all that often, and then not being able to get into their rhythm so easily.
User avatar
Luckycharmer
Posts: 9283
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

DOB wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:05 pm
eweeg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 pm Seems to be broad consensus that Ringrose wasnt worthy of a spot but I am still just gutted for him . I am convinced he has one of the highest ceilings of any current Irish player. The timing of his injury and dip in form is pretty cruel. Massive lost opportunity for him to turn it all around.
His form just wasn't there. I think he could be one of those guys that gets called up for an injury and has an amazing tour, but based on how he's been playing lately, I really wouldn't pick him.


Unless the next best option is Bundee, tbh. That's the head scratcher of it, unless the thinking is that they need another midfielder to tackle the Boks at head height if Faz is off the pitch.
I think Slade was unluckier, I think he is a class player and better distributor/kicker
User avatar
anonymous_joe
Posts: 15731
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

camroc1 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:01 am
anonymous_joe wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:14 am Tbh, the players who didn't make it will get a proper rest and pre-season. Could be hugely beneficial for Leinster and Ireland next season to have a fresher Ryan, Ringrose and Larmour. (Although Larmour was never going to make it.)
Leinster looked underdone after the 6Ns. I think it's just the way the season went with so many Ireland camps meaning that the strongest Leinster 15 didn't play together in the Pro 14 all that often, and then not being able to get into their rhythm so easily.
I think the Pro 14 and the heavy take up of players by Ireland are dulling Leinster's edge tbh.
User avatar
fishooks15
Posts: 3571
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:22 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by fishooks15 »

Ryan not going on the Lions is a good thing for him imo. Time to have a less hectic summer and get himself right physically.

He was the best lock in Europe two seasons ago and he's still only 24.

As I say that you'd imagine at least one lock will get injured early and he's surely on standby
User avatar
hermie
Posts: 10682
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

Monk Zombie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:57 am Ryan simply lacks the ticker

how many games have we seen him fade away when the going gets tough?

Henderson on the other hand ...
Well that is patently untrue. Henderson has made a career of coming in and out of games, albeit showing a lot more consistency lately. Where as Ryan frequently has bonkers numbers in terms of tackles and carries. He's off form no doubt but no need to make stuff up.

He'll be heartbroken but as others have said it could be great for Leinster and Ireland (Leinster in particular) to have some of these guys fresh and with a point to prove next season.
User avatar
fishooks15
Posts: 3571
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:22 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by fishooks15 »

Also had no idea that the players only find out through the actual squad announcement. Assumed they would have been contacted prior.

Conor Murray's live reaction to being called out on his IG is pretty good. Imagine having to sit through all the bollocks before the announcement if you've actual skin in the game
Monk Zombie
Posts: 4764
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

hermie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:08 am
Monk Zombie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:57 am Ryan simply lacks the ticker

how many games have we seen him fade away when the going gets tough?

Henderson on the other hand ...
Well that is patently untrue. Henderson has made a career of coming in and out of games, albeit showing a lot more consistency lately. Where as Ryan frequently has bonkers numbers in terms of tackles and carries. He's off form no doubt but no need to make stuff up.

He'll be heartbroken but as others have said it could be great for Leinster and Ireland (Leinster in particular) to have some of these guys fresh and with a point to prove next season.
i have long been critical of Ryan on here.

i express my view on what i see, watching a lot of rugby

Kelleher is another player you Irish swoon over but who looks very average to me
User avatar
CM11
Posts: 63376
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Monk Zombie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:57 am Ryan simply lacks the ticker

how many games have we seen him fade away when the going gets tough?

Henderson on the other hand ...
Eh practically none. He's an 80 min player.

Henderson used to be subbed after 55+ mins up until recently.

Are you sure you have the right player?
User avatar
Luckycharmer
Posts: 9283
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

hermie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:45 am
sewa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:30 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
Poc was a different type of animal. He was a beast.
They're identical players ffs. Will Ryan go on to have the same career as POC? Obviously that's a tall order and shouldn't really be expected of anyone. But I don't see what's so different about them.

On the topic, some performance by Skelton. I still contest you don't get that kind of 80 min display out of a guy that size without a ref who likes the sound of his own whistle, plus lads regularly taking a knee etc.
Ryan just seems to be too nice and little introvert. Second rows after 9 tend to be the most niggly annoying f*ckers on the pitch. Itoje, Hines, AWJ all are/were niggling away at the opposition players, holding them down, constantly in their face. Basically border line and good at the dark arts.
Either that are they are the enforcers Bakkies/Eben etc. Sometimes you would like to see Ryan get that more physical with the opposition, smash players back in the tackle. Only time I have really seen him stand up and fight (to use the cliche) was a couple of years ago against England. Hopefully he regains his form as he was out from injury.
User avatar
earl the beaver
Posts: 52951
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

hermie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:08 am
Monk Zombie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:57 am Ryan simply lacks the ticker

how many games have we seen him fade away when the going gets tough?

Henderson on the other hand ...
Well that is patently untrue. Henderson has made a career of coming in and out of games, albeit showing a lot more consistency lately. Where as Ryan frequently has bonkers numbers in terms of tackles and carries. He's off form no doubt but no need to make stuff up.

He'll be heartbroken but as others have said it could be great for Leinster and Ireland (Leinster in particular) to have some of these guys fresh and with a point to prove next season.
While I disagree on MZ's comments on Ryan largely (I do think he's a bit underpowered tbf), that's a myth on Hendy.

When Henderson has played he's regularly been high up on carries, tackles,rucks hit etc. he's consistently been injured every time he got a run in the team or was coming into an international window in form.
User avatar
grimoald
Posts: 4869
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by grimoald »

hermie wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:45 am
sewa wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:30 pm
CM11 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:27 pm Interesting to note that a 203cm, 116kg lock is now 'too small' for international rugby.

Poor POC would have been a journeyman these days.
Poc was a different type of animal. He was a beast.
They're identical players ffs. Will Ryan go on to have the same career as POC? Obviously that's a tall order and shouldn't really be expected of anyone. But I don't see what's so different about them.

On the topic, some performance by Skelton. I still contest you don't get that kind of 80 min display out of a guy that size without a ref who likes the sound of his own whistle, plus lads regularly taking a knee etc.
That either a WUM or you have no actual memory of watching POC play.

POC was much more physical in defence, was virtually peerless in his era at the ruck (only Alabacete effected as many turnovers than him) and the joint best lineout lock in world rugby with Matfield.

Ryan has a bigger engine (his work rate is off the chart) and when he first burst through seemed more dynamic with the ball in a way POC only showed glimpses of at the beginning of his career before settling into become someone who only carried to recycle ball - but that is where Ryan has really fallen down in the last year or so, when he carries now against better sides it is a major risk of slow messy ball or worse.
User avatar
camroc1
Posts: 43518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

Paul O'Connell was 24 in 2003. By the end of the 2003 6N he had 5 caps to his name.

2003 was a RWC year, and also the year that POC cemented his place in the Irish team. By the end of the year, between summer tour, RWC warmups, and the RWC he gained another 10 caps, giving 15 in total.

James Ryan aged 24 has gained 34 caps to date.

To make comparisons useful, the comparisons between players should be made for similar stages of their career. FWIW, I can remember lots of comments during POCS first 3 or 4 years with Ireland, that he would have to "fill out" and "bulk up", especially as he was coming from a swimming and basketball background.
Monk Zombie
Posts: 4764
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

I assume the Ryan injury at issue is the knock he picked up against Scotland in March this year

3 games immediately spring to mind where he was simply crap:

- Ireland v Italy from October last year

- Leinster v Saracens from September last year

- and then his spectacular disappearing act during the Japan game at WC 19


there have been others
iarmhiman
Posts: 44662
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by iarmhiman »

He was great in his 1st season.
Post Reply