OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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eldanielfire
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

shereblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:29 pm
Sorry mate. If you could but see your Anglocentric lack of objectivity.
Most of my arguments haven't used much in the way of anglocentric perspectives. But deflect way.

If only those views had been laid before the Nobel Peace Prize judges in 2012. :smug:
It lost credibility I think with Obama nomination for, well, being politically popular and not much else, and certainly not born out by his foreign policy record.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by danny_fitz »

eldanielfire wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:14 am
shereblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:29 pm
Sorry mate. If you could but see your Anglocentric lack of objectivity.
Most of my arguments haven't used much in the way of anglocentric perspectives. But deflect way.

If only those views had been laid before the Nobel Peace Prize judges in 2012. :smug:
It lost credibility I think with Obama nomination for, well, being politically popular and not much else, and certainly not born out by his foreign policy record.
And Henry Kissinger
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eldanielfire
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

danny_fitz wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:58 am
eldanielfire wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:14 am
shereblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:29 pm
Sorry mate. If you could but see your Anglocentric lack of objectivity.
Most of my arguments haven't used much in the way of anglocentric perspectives. But deflect way.

If only those views had been laid before the Nobel Peace Prize judges in 2012. :smug:
It lost credibility I think with Obama nomination for, well, being politically popular and not much else, and certainly not born out by his foreign policy record.
And Henry Kissinger
True. But that one was more of a mess than anything at the the time. Of course we are talking about an award from the Dynamite King who was desperate to spin his own life as something worthy.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Sawtooth the Beaver »

bimboman wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:28 am
Sawtooth the Beaver wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:08 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56932551

Cod wars a distant memory.

So distant we’ve forgotten the participants.
Speak for yourself.
La soule
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by La soule »

eldanielfire wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:11 am
La soule wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:39 pm

21 years between the end of WW1 & 2. The one before WW1 about 44 years. And then all the ones before, again & again. The 13 years you mention is not a really good point. France & the UK messing around around the globe has indeed nothing to do with Europe affairs.
That's a bit weird then. It is well documented the seeds and conditions for WWII were planted and made directly after WWI. Clearly after WWII they took a very different approach across the board after WWII to avoid that and learn from history. Part of that was corporation period as well as no western countries having the desire or justification for empire building. Likewise many eventual EU countries joined decades later, but didn't go to war. EEC or no it was a reversal of empire desire, Nato and the soviet threat were undoubtable the biggest reasons for western Europe to not war with each other.

NATO, EEC etc... created the platform for cooperation. Getting ruined never stopped European countries going at each others for the best part of 20 centuries.
It's a bit silly to present a case where we compare feudal times to modern post war western civilization as justification for the EU.
Yes of course it well documented and correct but not the point discussed.

This is a waste of time.

just to conclude on this this, just search on Robert Schuman's declaration.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

La soule wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:09 am
eldanielfire wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:11 am
La soule wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:39 pm

21 years between the end of WW1 & 2. The one before WW1 about 44 years. And then all the ones before, again & again. The 13 years you mention is not a really good point. France & the UK messing around around the globe has indeed nothing to do with Europe affairs.
That's a bit weird then. It is well documented the seeds and conditions for WWII were planted and made directly after WWI. Clearly after WWII they took a very different approach across the board after WWII to avoid that and learn from history. Part of that was corporation period as well as no western countries having the desire or justification for empire building. Likewise many eventual EU countries joined decades later, but didn't go to war. EEC or no it was a reversal of empire desire, Nato and the soviet threat were undoubtable the biggest reasons for western Europe to not war with each other.

NATO, EEC etc... created the platform for cooperation. Getting ruined never stopped European countries going at each others for the best part of 20 centuries.
It's a bit silly to present a case where we compare feudal times to modern post war western civilization as justification for the EU.
Yes of course it well documented and correct but not the point discussed.

This is a waste of time.

just to conclude on this this, just search on Robert Schuman's declaration.
You think this all started with Schuman?
La soule
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by La soule »

Mick Mannock wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:42 am
La soule wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:09 am
eldanielfire wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:11 am
La soule wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:39 pm

21 years between the end of WW1 & 2. The one before WW1 about 44 years. And then all the ones before, again & again. The 13 years you mention is not a really good point. France & the UK messing around around the globe has indeed nothing to do with Europe affairs.
That's a bit weird then. It is well documented the seeds and conditions for WWII were planted and made directly after WWI. Clearly after WWII they took a very different approach across the board after WWII to avoid that and learn from history. Part of that was corporation period as well as no western countries having the desire or justification for empire building. Likewise many eventual EU countries joined decades later, but didn't go to war. EEC or no it was a reversal of empire desire, Nato and the soviet threat were undoubtable the biggest reasons for western Europe to not war with each other.

NATO, EEC etc... created the platform for cooperation. Getting ruined never stopped European countries going at each others for the best part of 20 centuries.
It's a bit silly to present a case where we compare feudal times to modern post war western civilization as justification for the EU.
Yes of course it well documented and correct but not the point discussed.

This is a waste of time.

just to conclude on this this, just search on Robert Schuman's declaration.
You think this all started with Schuman?
Covfefe
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by shereblue »

eldanielfire wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:14 am
shereblue wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:29 pm
Sorry mate. If you could but see your Anglocentric lack of objectivity.
Most of my arguments haven't used much in the way of anglocentric perspectives. But deflect way.
I genuinely don't know whether you are being political in your refusal to acknowledge the contribution of the EU and its predecessors in achieving a stated aim or whether, like a number of Brits, you simply lack any sensitivity in understanding continental Europe.

Nato, the Marshall Plan, the rather disrespected ECHR have all played a part alongside the EU in establishing peace in Europe. For Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium to become such good allies in the aftermath of WW2 given the history of occupation and worse was actually a big ask that took political will and time. Peace was always a stated objective. The UK joined the EU partly because it was providing an economic model that was aspirational. Think how powerfully that aspiration might have resonated in the populations of the Soviet-controlled nations and other dictatorships. And of the accession conditions for democratic governance imposed by the EU on new members. You even linked western democracy to peace, I believe?


You can trade quite effectively with dictatorships but the EU is more ambitious than that which is partly why it is called "the Project". Part of that ambition has involved levelling up those poorer countries to help spread prosperity and economic inter-dependency. As ever to the distaste of the cake and eat it Brits who hate contributing themselves but perversely credit the US taxpayers' Marshall Plan's contribution to peace.

" shereblue wrote If only those views had been laid before the Nobel Peace Prize judges in 2012. :smug:


" eldanielfire wroteIt lost credibility I think with Obama nomination for, well, being politically popular and not much else, and certainly not born out by his foreign policy record.

You were raising deflection...and now we get "but Obama". Still happy to take it if you are suggesting that, mid-Eurozone crisis, the EU was politically "popular".... Why don't you get Mick and Bimbo to propose you for membership of the ailing Nobel Committee?
Last edited by shereblue on Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 6 times in total.
backrow
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by backrow »

So UK and Australia are almost there on a trade agreement I read ? And it’s a brand new agreement , not a rollover , precisely the type of thing remainers claimed would be impossible ?

G’day Bruce :thumbup: :smug:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by shereblue »

backrow wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:58 am So UK and Australia are almost there on a trade agreement I read ? And it’s a brand new agreement , not a rollover , precisely the type of thing remainers claimed would be impossible ?

G’day Bruce :thumbup: :smug:
Remarkable, in the idiom of Bimbo
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Sawtooth the Beaver »

shereblue wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:01 am
backrow wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:58 am So UK and Australia are almost there on a trade agreement I read ? And it’s a brand new agreement , not a rollover , precisely the type of thing remainers claimed would be impossible ?

G’day Bruce :thumbup: :smug:
Remarkable, in the idiom of Bimbo
Revisionism
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Sawtooth the Beaver »

Image
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by RodneyRegis »

Hartlepool, parliamentary by-election result:

Con: 51.9% (+23.0)
Lab: 28.7% (-9.0)
Ind: 9.7% (+7.5)
RefUK: 1.2% (-24.6)
Grn: 1.2% (+1.2)
LDem: 1.2% (-3.0)
Oth: 6.1% (+4.9)

So Tories take back Brexit party voters. Labour lose out to independents. Boris will be over the moon.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

LDs now as relevant as Greens :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Sawtooth the Beaver »

Looking forward to Hartlepool being a model for the world.

High aspirations indeed.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Labour getting thumped in council after council. They’re gone as a political force. No idea who they represent (student activists or blue collar workers?), what they stand for or what policies they advocate. Starmer is also far too dull to cut through.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Ali would suggest “Prison style”.

Sans lube etc.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Mick Mannock wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:06 am https://twitter.com/addicted2newz/statu ... 7460807681

Even SKY NEWS :lol:

That is spot on! :lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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My concern is that both leadership on the two shores of the channel are now indulging into stirring uggly nationalism as a way to distract the people from the real issues and give them someone else to hate abroad.

As I pointed out, the first time I noticed how efficient these tactics are was when I lived in China and I saw how the Chinese Communist Party used Taiwan or other nationalist subject to stir the crowds and concentrate their anger onto the outside enemy.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by mdaclarke »

terryfinch wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:48 am Labour getting thumped in council after council. They’re gone as a political force. No idea who they represent (student activists or blue collar workers?), what they stand for or what policies they advocate. Starmer is also far too dull to cut through.
I wonder if it is a coincidence that Labour have not won an election since the rise of Twitter

https://twitter.com/helenlewis/status/1 ... 9009915906

"The existence of Twitter is terrible for Labour. It means MPs litigate factional beefs right in front of journalists. And the most pious, unbearable activists get the most engagement, both from fans and people being angry about them in turn."
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Gospel »

TheFrog wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:26 pm My concern is that both leadership on the two shores of the channel are now indulging into stirring uggly nationalism as a way to distract the people from the real issues and give them someone else to hate abroad.

As I pointed out, the first time I noticed how efficient these tactics are was when I lived in China and I saw how the Chinese Communist Party used Taiwan or other nationalist subject to stir the crowds and concentrate their anger onto the outside enemy.
Our Government doesn't need to stir anything. They have a huge majority which has four more years to run and are enjoying a further boost in popularity due in part to the successful vaccine roll-out. It is Macron who is fighting for his political life and being seen to stick it to the English has long been an easy vote winner in France.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by La soule »

Gospel wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:08 pm
TheFrog wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:26 pm My concern is that both leadership on the two shores of the channel are now indulging into stirring uggly nationalism as a way to distract the people from the real issues and give them someone else to hate abroad.

As I pointed out, the first time I noticed how efficient these tactics are was when I lived in China and I saw how the Chinese Communist Party used Taiwan or other nationalist subject to stir the crowds and concentrate their anger onto the outside enemy.
Our Government doesn't need to stir anything. They have a huge majority which has four more years to run and are enjoying a further boost in popularity due in part to the successful vaccine roll-out. It is Macron who is fighting for his political life and being seen to stick it to the English has long been an easy vote winner in France.
:lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Gospel »

La soule wrote::lol:
:lol:
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by clementinfrance »

Gospel wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:08 pm
TheFrog wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:26 pm My concern is that both leadership on the two shores of the channel are now indulging into stirring uggly nationalism as a way to distract the people from the real issues and give them someone else to hate abroad.

As I pointed out, the first time I noticed how efficient these tactics are was when I lived in China and I saw how the Chinese Communist Party used Taiwan or other nationalist subject to stir the crowds and concentrate their anger onto the outside enemy.
Our Government doesn't need to stir anything. They have a huge majority which has four more years to run and are enjoying a further boost in popularity due in part to the successful vaccine roll-out. It is Macron who is fighting for his political life and being seen to stick it to the English has long been an easy vote winner in France.
What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?

Oh...
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Gospel »

clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by clementinfrance »

Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
... and that will in no way whatsoever influence French citizens vote in either regional or presidential elections.

Go back to reading your bullsh*t newspapers you ignorant twat.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Gospel »

clementinfrance wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:04 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
... and that will in no way whatsoever influence French citizens vote in either regional or presidential elections.

Go back to reading your bullsh*t newspapers you ignorant twat.
There's a constant political diatribe from Macron's cronies. I don't read the gutter press I listen to what is being said by Governments and the actions they take and your lot have made an utter mess of things and will happily rail against the UK in an attempt to deflect criticism. Just look at the debacle over vaccines. You're a clown, get off the stage.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by clementinfrance »

Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:13 pm
clementinfrance wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:04 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
... and that will in no way whatsoever influence French citizens vote in either regional or presidential elections.

Go back to reading your bullsh*t newspapers you ignorant twat.
There's a constant political diatribe from Macron's cronies. I don't read the gutter press I listen to what is being said by Governments and the actions they take and your lot have made an utter mess of things and will happily rail against the UK in an attempt to deflect criticism. Just look at the debacle over vaccines. You're a clown, get off the stage.
Macron has not let the UK get away with too much it is true.

but there is a gulf between this and "being seen to stick it to the English has long been an easy vote winner in France".

I assume you have loads of examples of Hollande, Sarkozy, Chirac etc "railing against the UK"....
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

Was chatting to someone at Defra this morning, and they're having great fun trying to set out reality and the interconnectedness of all things, namely the thinking we can justify the actions in Jersey because we need to protect our fish stocks, and we need to protect our sea beds, both from a husbandry point of view and also with a view to keeping carbon isolated. Both those ideas are fine, possibly even good, but there's little in our fishing plans that's really about protecting stocks, and with possible restrictions on selling into EU markets the notion we can instead simply ship food around the world more than undermines the supposed environmental stance.

The view in Whitehall on the back of the recent elections is verging on why on earth should they take account of reality when the voters are not holding them to such standard. And anyway, everything is for the best in the best of all possible brexits
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

clementinfrance wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:18 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:13 pm
clementinfrance wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:04 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
... and that will in no way whatsoever influence French citizens vote in either regional or presidential elections.

Go back to reading your bullsh*t newspapers you ignorant twat.
There's a constant political diatribe from Macron's cronies. I don't read the gutter press I listen to what is being said by Governments and the actions they take and your lot have made an utter mess of things and will happily rail against the UK in an attempt to deflect criticism. Just look at the debacle over vaccines. You're a clown, get off the stage.
Macron has not let the UK get away with too much it is true.

but there is a gulf between this and "being seen to stick it to the English has long been an easy vote winner in France".

I assume you have loads of examples of Hollande, Sarkozy, Chirac etc "railing against the UK"....

Macron has come across as an absolute tit. The U.K. got the leave agreement it wanted, and now it’s becoming clear that Canary Wharf isn’t relocating to La defence all he has left is to appeal to fake EU nationalism.

And for f uck sake Chirac was openly hostile to Britain at all times.


Let see if the coalition holds next year.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by TheFrog »

Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57001584

Good sensible piece of reporting by this outstanding media outlet called BBC.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Gospel »

TheFrog wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57001584

Good sensible piece of reporting by this outstanding media outlet called BBC.
No mention in the "sensible piece" that Jersey gave a four month grace period followed by a further two month extension for smaller boats to get their paperwork in.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

Are you surprised?

BBC is dreadful.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:52 pm
TheFrog wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57001584

Good sensible piece of reporting by this outstanding media outlet called BBC.
No mention in the "sensible piece" that Jersey gave a four month grace period followed by a further two month extension for smaller boats to get their paperwork in.
if you think Jersey have handled this well you're just not familiar with what's expected of them. they've either been incompetent or complicit in setting up the gun boat photo op for Boris.

and they could have gotten to the same end point for less grief.

which doesn't mean all the messaging coming back has been handled well either.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by TheFrog »

Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:52 pm
TheFrog wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57001584

Good sensible piece of reporting by this outstanding media outlet called BBC.
No mention in the "sensible piece" that Jersey gave a four month grace period followed by a further two month extension for smaller boats to get their paperwork in.
Look I make an effort to look into British media to avoid French bias, but if you tell me even the BBC is corrupt, I don't know what to do...
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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piquant wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:19 pm Was chatting to someone at Defra this morning, and they're having great fun trying to set out reality and the interconnectedness of all things, namely the thinking we can justify the actions in Jersey because we need to protect our fish stocks, and we need to protect our sea beds, both from a husbandry point of view and also with a view to keeping carbon isolated. Both those ideas are fine, possibly even good, but there's little in our fishing plans that's really about protecting stocks, and with possible restrictions on selling into EU markets the notion we can instead simply ship food around the world more than undermines the supposed environmental stance.

The view in Whitehall on the back of the recent elections is verging on why on earth should they take account of reality when the voters are not holding them to such standard. And anyway, everything is for the best in the best of all possible brexits
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:10 am
piquant wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:19 pm Was chatting to someone at Defra this morning, and they're having great fun trying to set out reality and the interconnectedness of all things, namely the thinking we can justify the actions in Jersey because we need to protect our fish stocks, and we need to protect our sea beds, both from a husbandry point of view and also with a view to keeping carbon isolated. Both those ideas are fine, possibly even good, but there's little in our fishing plans that's really about protecting stocks, and with possible restrictions on selling into EU markets the notion we can instead simply ship food around the world more than undermines the supposed environmental stance.

The view in Whitehall on the back of the recent elections is verging on why on earth should they take account of reality when the voters are not holding them to such standard. And anyway, everything is for the best in the best of all possible brexits
On a Sunday morning. What do you do ?
Make things up.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

piquant wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:51 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:52 pm
TheFrog wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:03 pm
Gospel wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:01 pm
clementinfrance wrote:What a load of tripe... Honestly where do you get your intl news from?
Your Government minister threatening to turn off the power in Jersey. You fucking moron.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57001584

Good sensible piece of reporting by this outstanding media outlet called BBC.
No mention in the "sensible piece" that Jersey gave a four month grace period followed by a further two month extension for smaller boats to get their paperwork in.
if you think Jersey have handled this well you're just not familiar with what's expected of them. they've either been incompetent or complicit in setting up the gun boat photo op for Boris.

and they could have gotten to the same end point for less grief.

which doesn't mean all the messaging coming back has been handled well either.
You’re basically Dozy, in a beret with a string of onions.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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Brexit xenophobia 1 common sense 0
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