Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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message #2527204
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:53 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:45 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:21 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:18 pm

Yes, but a) it's important to get the facts correct. b) there's still over 35 million people that haven't had both doses.
The only facts that are important is that the vaccines prevent serious illness, and as a result protect the public health system from being over run.

Those who obsess about daily cases are the same people who obsess about restrictions and are usually the very people who have no skin in the game.
That's certainly a key issue - but like I said over 35M still not fully vaxxed. And the risk of variants increases with the number of cases. All the facts are important and being 'glib' about them is in no one's interest.

We don't have all the science/data and analysis - so, atm, I'm OK with the Government following the scientic advice it is receiving and acting a bit on the cautious side. I doubt they took the decision lightly - especially as they were responsible for not putting India on the red list earlier.
Dont forget they were responsible for allowing Chinese people into the country in 2019 too. If they'd have taken the decision to stop them earlier, we wouldn't have had any of this.
Whilst they have repeatedly been slow and indecisive with their actions, I have a bit more sympathy with regard to that particular issue. I don't think anyone was aware of the full scale of the problem in 2019.
And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

not_english wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:53 pm
not_english wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:49 pm I never understood why they couldn't divert more vaccine doses to the likes of Bolton and Blackburn where they were having a big uptick rather than rigidly sticking to the "first all the over-35s in the country must be vaccinated", then all the over 30s, etc.
Sure it takes 3 weeks to have an effect, but if you do it quickly, you should notice the difference.

Erm, they did divert vaccine.
No I mean give it to everyone in all age groups though, not just follow the existing guidance


They sent open buses with no questions asked and even had “male only” vaccination events, they did break guidance.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:59 pm He was counting the people not allowed the vaccine folks ..... genuinely not well,
They can still catch and transmit the virus, dude.

They’re a f ucking irrelevance to the conversation being had, they’re never getting vaccinated.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:53 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:45 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:21 pm

The only facts that are important is that the vaccines prevent serious illness, and as a result protect the public health system from being over run.

Those who obsess about daily cases are the same people who obsess about restrictions and are usually the very people who have no skin in the game.
That's certainly a key issue - but like I said over 35M still not fully vaxxed. And the risk of variants increases with the number of cases. All the facts are important and being 'glib' about them is in no one's interest.

We don't have all the science/data and analysis - so, atm, I'm OK with the Government following the scientic advice it is receiving and acting a bit on the cautious side. I doubt they took the decision lightly - especially as they were responsible for not putting India on the red list earlier.
Dont forget they were responsible for allowing Chinese people into the country in 2019 too. If they'd have taken the decision to stop them earlier, we wouldn't have had any of this.
Whilst they have repeatedly been slow and indecisive with their actions, I have a bit more sympathy with regard to that particular issue. I don't think anyone was aware of the full scale of the problem in 2019.
And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

Would Oval consider 20% of the country unvaccinated too big a risk I wonder,
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:15 pm Would Oval consider 20% of the country unvaccinated too big a risk I wonder,
I'll be happy to be guided by the experts. If they conclude that 80% coverage is good enough, that'd do for me. I don't pretend to know better than them.

Given that 21% of the UK population is under 18, we'll be doing well to get 80% of the UK fully vaxxed.

What about you Bimbo - will you go with the experts or come up with your own number ?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:27 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:15 pm Would Oval consider 20% of the country unvaccinated too big a risk I wonder,
I'll be happy to be guided by the experts. If they conclude that 80% coverage is good enough, that'd do for me. I don't pretend to know better than them.

Given that 21% of the UK population is under 18, we'll be doing well to get 80% of the UK fully vaxxed.


But you think under 1/2 is a reasonable statistic to use if you include that 21% ....

Proper joker.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

What about you Bimbo - will you go with the experts or come up with your own number ?

Experts from where , America, U.K. , Germany ? They’re all very different in their opinions ..

Tell you what, I’ll go with Sunetra Gupta and Carl Hennighans views. Proper experts.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:53 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:45 pm

That's certainly a key issue - but like I said over 35M still not fully vaxxed. And the risk of variants increases with the number of cases. All the facts are important and being 'glib' about them is in no one's interest.

We don't have all the science/data and analysis - so, atm, I'm OK with the Government following the scientic advice it is receiving and acting a bit on the cautious side. I doubt they took the decision lightly - especially as they were responsible for not putting India on the red list earlier.
Dont forget they were responsible for allowing Chinese people into the country in 2019 too. If they'd have taken the decision to stop them earlier, we wouldn't have had any of this.
Whilst they have repeatedly been slow and indecisive with their actions, I have a bit more sympathy with regard to that particular issue. I don't think anyone was aware of the full scale of the problem in 2019.
And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:53 pm

Dont forget they were responsible for allowing Chinese people into the country in 2019 too. If they'd have taken the decision to stop them earlier, we wouldn't have had any of this.
Whilst they have repeatedly been slow and indecisive with their actions, I have a bit more sympathy with regard to that particular issue. I don't think anyone was aware of the full scale of the problem in 2019.
And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm

Whilst they have repeatedly been slow and indecisive with their actions, I have a bit more sympathy with regard to that particular issue. I don't think anyone was aware of the full scale of the problem in 2019.
And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm

And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?


They’re all making it up as they go along. As we’ve seen now with Perspex screens they’re often totally wrong.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:01 pm

And they weren't aware of the scale of the problem in India, but dont allow that to alter your views.
Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?
'Everyone' was aware of the dangers of covid at that time. In 2019 they weren't.

I think it's fair to question why they kept India off the red list at that time. Concerns had been raised beforehand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ant-cases/
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

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bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:55 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm

Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?


They’re all making it up as they go along. As we’ve seen now with Perspex screens they’re often totally wrong.
Perspex spit screens and masks... because it's "obvious" they work.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:01 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm

Sorry, I don't understand your point there. In 2019 not much was known about the virus - When it came to the issue in India, everyone was aware - so not acting then seems more culpable to me.
Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?
'Everyone' was aware of the dangers of covid at that time. In 2019 they weren't.

I think it's fair to question why they kept India off the red list at that time. Concerns had been raised beforehand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ant-cases/
Because the data told them it wasn't necessary, apparently. The next set of data - the data being thrown about by the Labour party in 'proof' that Hancock killed millions - didn't arrive until later, and when it did, India was added to the red list.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:01 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm

Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?
'Everyone' was aware of the dangers of covid at that time. In 2019 they weren't.

I think it's fair to question why they kept India off the red list at that time. Concerns had been raised beforehand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ant-cases/
Because the data told them it wasn't necessary, apparently. The next set of data - the data being thrown about by the Labour party in 'proof' that Hancock killed millions - didn't arrive until later, and when it did, India was added to the red list.
Mmmmmm.............

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... weaknesses

and

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... il-15.html
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:03 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:55 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:36 pm

Everyone? Or everyone who thought that all passengers from all countries should quarantine?
Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?


They’re all making it up as they go along. As we’ve seen now with Perspex screens they’re often totally wrong.
Perspex spit screens and masks... because it's "obvious" they work.


So the recent expert reports including from government that they actually caused more problems due to air flow and increased transmission aren’t real then.?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:11 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:01 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:39 pm

Sorry, I really don't understand what your getting at. :?
Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?
'Everyone' was aware of the dangers of covid at that time. In 2019 they weren't.

I think it's fair to question why they kept India off the red list at that time. Concerns had been raised beforehand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ant-cases/
Because the data told them it wasn't necessary, apparently. The next set of data - the data being thrown about by the Labour party in 'proof' that Hancock killed millions - didn't arrive until later, and when it did, India was added to the red list.
Mmmmmm.............

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... weaknesses

and

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... il-15.html
One official involved said ministers had to rely on the data that was available, and that was incomplete
It wasn;t even a variant of concern. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:24 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:11 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:01 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:52 pm

Whichever part of the government that assesses the risk and gives its advice - foreign office? - didnt think it was necessary - so who is this 'everyone'?
'Everyone' was aware of the dangers of covid at that time. In 2019 they weren't.

I think it's fair to question why they kept India off the red list at that time. Concerns had been raised beforehand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ant-cases/
Because the data told them it wasn't necessary, apparently. The next set of data - the data being thrown about by the Labour party in 'proof' that Hancock killed millions - didn't arrive until later, and when it did, India was added to the red list.
Mmmmmm.............

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... weaknesses

and

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... il-15.html
One official involved said ministers had to rely on the data that was available, and that was incomplete
It wasn;t even a variant of concern. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
It clearly should have been of concern........
By late March, the variant was spreading quickly across India, with the country's health officials warning it was highly infectious and may undermine the newly-developed vaccines.

Reports suggested the imposition of border restrictions on travellers from India may have been delayed to maintain good relations with India before key post-Brexit trade talks take place.

There was also said to be concern that India might prevent vaccine supplies being sent from its factories to the UK if the Government placed the country on the red list.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by message #2527204 »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:32 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:24 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:11 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:01 pm

'Everyone' was aware of the dangers of covid at that time. In 2019 they weren't.

I think it's fair to question why they kept India off the red list at that time. Concerns had been raised beforehand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ant-cases/
Because the data told them it wasn't necessary, apparently. The next set of data - the data being thrown about by the Labour party in 'proof' that Hancock killed millions - didn't arrive until later, and when it did, India was added to the red list.
Mmmmmm.............

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... weaknesses

and

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... il-15.html
One official involved said ministers had to rely on the data that was available, and that was incomplete
It wasn;t even a variant of concern. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
It clearly should have been of concern........
By late March, the variant was spreading quickly across India, with the country's health officials warning it was highly infectious and may undermine the newly-developed vaccines.

Reports suggested the imposition of border restrictions on travellers from India may have been delayed to maintain good relations with India before key post-Brexit trade talks take place.

There was also said to be concern that India might prevent vaccine supplies being sent from its factories to the UK if the Government placed the country on the red list.
That is newspaper speculation. The quote above was an official source.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Frodder »

Message v's Bimbo

Bimbo v's Ovals

Ovals v's Message

3 way fight to the death
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by iarmhiman »

Frodder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:40 pm Message v's Bimbo

Bimbo v's Ovals

Ovals v's Message

3 way fight to the death
Oval wants to be safe
Bimbo wants to be free
Message just wants Boris to win
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RodneyRegis
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by RodneyRegis »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:11 am
RodneyRegis wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:30 am
ovalball wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:46 pm
RodneyRegis wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:34 pm
ovalball wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:06 pm

Err - no. the 18-54 group now make up 50-60% + of the most recent hospitalisations - they Back in Jan they were made 20-25%%. Over 54s were around 70% and are now more like 25%. It really isn't a contentious, or surpising, and has been in the news for some time now. It's also what you'd expect with a successful vaccine dished out by age.
Agreed. So it's no longer a concern given the tiny hospitalisation numbers and there's no reason to extend restrictions. The proportion of ages is both unsurprising and thoroughly unimportant.
So, why be so contrarian about the Data and make up stuff to try and show something that clearly wasn't true ?

The Data is still important when you are looking at trends resulting from a dominant new variant. Not necessarily of great concern at this stage but worthy of monitoring as the case load is/was increasing quite rapidly.

Hopefully, the fact that cases and hospitalisations, are a much smaller proportion amongst the older groups, will prove to put a much lower ceiling on the 3rd wave - that would certainly seem logical.
Are you touched? I set up a hypothetical set of statistics to show how meaningless the "hospitalisations in 18-54 are rising" statement is without context. I thought I made it pretty clear with the capitalisation.

In fact, I could have used the actual statistics and the point would have been no less valid :thumbup:
Wriggle, wriggle.
Not really.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by RodneyRegis »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:39 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:23 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:08 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:03 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:01 pm

No. R was above one (in certain areas of the country) even given those factors.
It doesn't matter as it only infects those who are unvaccinated which are a minority of the population and NHS is not under threat.

You need to move away from this cult of restrictions. It's not all about the boomers.
That, of course, is not true. The vaccines aren't 100% effective. And less than hlf the UK population has been fully vaxxed.
Fantastic.
Yes, but a) it's important to get the facts correct. b) there's still over 35 million people that haven't had both doses.

57.8% is less than 1/2.
So 42.2 haven't been fully vaccinated? i.e. less than half?
If you choose to include the babies.
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RodneyRegis
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by RodneyRegis »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:00 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:59 pm He was counting the people not allowed the vaccine folks ..... genuinely not well,
They can still catch and transmit the virus, dude.
:blush:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by RodneyRegis »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:27 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:15 pm Would Oval consider 20% of the country unvaccinated too big a risk I wonder,
I'll be happy to be guided by the experts. If they conclude that 80% coverage is good enough, that'd do for me. I don't pretend to know better than them.

Given that 21% of the UK population is under 18, we'll be doing well to get 80% of the UK fully vaxxed.

What about you Bimbo - will you go with the experts or come up with your own number ?
What if the experts gave a reason for doing something and then changed that reason every few weeks? Would you start to think the experts were making it up as they went along?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:42 pm
Frodder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:40 pm Message v's Bimbo

Bimbo v's Ovals

Ovals v's Message

3 way fight to the death
Oval wants to be safe
Bimbo wants to be free
Message just wants Boris to win


:lol:
ovalball
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

RodneyRegis wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:53 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:27 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:15 pm Would Oval consider 20% of the country unvaccinated too big a risk I wonder,
I'll be happy to be guided by the experts. If they conclude that 80% coverage is good enough, that'd do for me. I don't pretend to know better than them.

Given that 21% of the UK population is under 18, we'll be doing well to get 80% of the UK fully vaxxed.

What about you Bimbo - will you go with the experts or come up with your own number ?
What if the experts gave a reason for doing something and then changed that reason every few weeks? Would you start to think the experts were making it up as they went along?
What is the alternative? Making up your own, uniformed, reasons - maybe listening to some random bloke on the internet. Or are you one of these people that are 'fed up with experts' :lol:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:42 pm
Frodder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:40 pm Message v's Bimbo

Bimbo v's Ovals

Ovals v's Message

3 way fight to the death
Oval wants to be safe
Bimbo wants to be free
Message just wants Boris to win
Is there anyone that doesn't want to be safe.

TBH, from a very personal standpoint, I'd be comfortable and happy with ending the restrictions right now. I'm fully vaxxed and feel the risk to me is now very low. However, not every one is in such a fortunate position.
ovalball
Posts: 13348
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:34 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:32 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:24 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:11 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm

Because the data told them it wasn't necessary, apparently. The next set of data - the data being thrown about by the Labour party in 'proof' that Hancock killed millions - didn't arrive until later, and when it did, India was added to the red list.
Mmmmmm.............

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... weaknesses

and

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... il-15.html
One official involved said ministers had to rely on the data that was available, and that was incomplete
It wasn;t even a variant of concern. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
It clearly should have been of concern........
By late March, the variant was spreading quickly across India, with the country's health officials warning it was highly infectious and may undermine the newly-developed vaccines.

Reports suggested the imposition of border restrictions on travellers from India may have been delayed to maintain good relations with India before key post-Brexit trade talks take place.

There was also said to be concern that India might prevent vaccine supplies being sent from its factories to the UK if the Government placed the country on the red list.
That is newspaper speculation. The quote above was an official source.
:lol: :lol:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 48040.html
bimboman
Posts: 72676
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:20 pm
iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:42 pm
Frodder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:40 pm Message v's Bimbo

Bimbo v's Ovals

Ovals v's Message

3 way fight to the death
Oval wants to be safe
Bimbo wants to be free
Message just wants Boris to win
Is there anyone that doesn't want to be safe.

TBH, from a very personal standpoint, I'd be comfortable and happy with ending the restrictions right now. I'm fully vaxxed and feel the risk to me is now very low. However, not every one is in such a fortunate position.


Everyone is as safe as you now or has refused a clear choice to be. Literally everyone.

And yes people ride motor bikes and horses, climb mountains, sail oceans, go out to the pub in Leeds.
bimboman
Posts: 72676
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by bimboman »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:16 pm
RodneyRegis wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:53 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:27 pm
bimboman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:15 pm Would Oval consider 20% of the country unvaccinated too big a risk I wonder,
I'll be happy to be guided by the experts. If they conclude that 80% coverage is good enough, that'd do for me. I don't pretend to know better than them.

Given that 21% of the UK population is under 18, we'll be doing well to get 80% of the UK fully vaxxed.

What about you Bimbo - will you go with the experts or come up with your own number ?
What if the experts gave a reason for doing something and then changed that reason every few weeks? Would you start to think the experts were making it up as they went along?
What is the alternative? Making up your own, uniformed, reasons - maybe listening to some random bloke on the internet. Or are you one of these people that are 'fed up with experts' :lol:


Professors from Oxford aren’t randoms.
User avatar
Enzedder
Posts: 21449
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: End of the road, turn right and first house on the left

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Enzedder »

Too many opinions and untested theories. It's a case of which one you think you like and run with it.

The dis-information age has kicked off for sure
Mick Mannock
Posts: 26732
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:59 pm Too many opinions and untested theories. It's a case of which one you think you like and run with it.

The dis-information age has kicked off for sure
Certainly in respect of long-term safety data

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent
COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19

HAS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE BEEN USED BEFORE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine. In clinical trials,
approximately 23,000 individuals 12 years of age and older have received at least
1 dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
In an ongoing clinical trial, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has been shown to
prevent COVID-19 following 2 doses given 3 weeks apart. The duration of protection
against COVID-19 is currently unknown.

These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials.

Americans are being given more information than we in the UK
ovalball
Posts: 13348
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:20 pm
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:59 pm Too many opinions and untested theories. It's a case of which one you think you like and run with it.

The dis-information age has kicked off for sure
Certainly in respect of long-term safety data

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent
COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19

HAS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE BEEN USED BEFORE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine. In clinical trials,
approximately 23,000 individuals 12 years of age and older have received at least
1 dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
In an ongoing clinical trial, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has been shown to
prevent COVID-19 following 2 doses given 3 weeks apart. The duration of protection
against COVID-19 is currently unknown.

These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials.

Americans are being given more information than we in the UK
The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is the national public health agency of the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta.

They say
You should get the first COVID-19 vaccine that is available to you. Do not wait for a specific brand. All currently authorized and recommended COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective, and CDC does not recommend one vaccine over another.
and
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is recommended for people aged 12 years and older.
iarmhiman
Posts: 45306
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by iarmhiman »

Whitty now saying UK faces another wave of cases in Winter once this wave fades.
Mick Mannock
Posts: 26732
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:21 pm Whitty now saying UK faces another wave of cases in Winter once this wave fades.
They are getting desperate now.
Mick Mannock
Posts: 26732
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by Mick Mannock »

ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:07 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:20 pm
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:59 pm Too many opinions and untested theories. It's a case of which one you think you like and run with it.

The dis-information age has kicked off for sure
Certainly in respect of long-term safety data

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent
COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19

HAS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE BEEN USED BEFORE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine. In clinical trials,
approximately 23,000 individuals 12 years of age and older have received at least
1 dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
In an ongoing clinical trial, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has been shown to
prevent COVID-19 following 2 doses given 3 weeks apart. The duration of protection
against COVID-19 is currently unknown.

These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials.

Americans are being given more information than we in the UK
The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is the national public health agency of the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta.

They say
You should get the first COVID-19 vaccine that is available to you. Do not wait for a specific brand. All currently authorized and recommended COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective, and CDC does not recommend one vaccine over another.
and
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is recommended for people aged 12 years and older.
So what?
ovalball
Posts: 13348
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

iarmhiman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:21 pm Whitty now saying UK faces another wave of cases in Winter once this wave fades.
If we are going to learn to live with it, as we do with flu, then Winter surges shouln't be a surprise.
ovalball
Posts: 13348
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Coronavirus Thread. Virus v humans

Post by ovalball »

Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:36 pm
ovalball wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:07 pm
Mick Mannock wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:20 pm
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:59 pm Too many opinions and untested theories. It's a case of which one you think you like and run with it.

The dis-information age has kicked off for sure
Certainly in respect of long-term safety data

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent
COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19

HAS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE BEEN USED BEFORE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine. In clinical trials,
approximately 23,000 individuals 12 years of age and older have received at least
1 dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.

WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
In an ongoing clinical trial, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has been shown to
prevent COVID-19 following 2 doses given 3 weeks apart. The duration of protection
against COVID-19 is currently unknown.

These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials.

Americans are being given more information than we in the UK
The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is the national public health agency of the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta.

They say
You should get the first COVID-19 vaccine that is available to you. Do not wait for a specific brand. All currently authorized and recommended COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective, and CDC does not recommend one vaccine over another.
and
The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is recommended for people aged 12 years and older.
So what?
Seems they recommend vaccines as much, if not more, then the UK. Even to the extent of including 12-18 Year olds. And they also say they are safe and effective. It just adds a bit of balance to your quotes.
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