Sydney.... fvcked

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JPNZ
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by JPNZ »

Grim reading, with another record day, and infectious in the community figures still stay high.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

I'd be very way of opening up anything at all presently
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Clogs
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Clogs »

Properly lock the fvck down. FFS!
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UncleFB
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by UncleFB »

Clogs wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:08 am Properly lock the fvck down. FFS!
I'm already planning Saturday brunch for after our lockdown ends on Friday.
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Farva »

Clogs wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:08 am Properly lock the fvck down. FFS!
Its bizarre, do it properly or not at all. Half-arsed is making it worse!
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Define ‘properly’

Measures? Or enforcement?
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Farva wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:17 am
Clogs wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:08 am Properly lock the fvck down. FFS!
Its bizarre, do it properly or not at all. Half-arsed is making it worse!
Gladys has admitted to delaying a full-Metropolitan Lockdown after consulting big-business groups

It's not looking good at this end :frown:
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Sure, Mat

But moving away from sitting in judgement on every decision, what do you think we should do now?
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UncleFB
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by UncleFB »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:26 am Sure, Mat

But moving away from sitting in judgement on every decision, what do you think we should do now?
You're asking Mat to fix Gladys mistakes now that everything has melted down? That's a bit rough.
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:28 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:26 am Sure, Mat

But moving away from sitting in judgement on every decision, what do you think we should do now?
You're asking Mat to fix Gladys mistakes now that everything has melted down? That's a bit rough.
I’m asking him what he thinks we should do now.

Is asking questions a bit rough on people?

If so, how do you manage in your media studies lectures?
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UncleFB
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by UncleFB »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:29 am
UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:28 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:26 am Sure, Mat

But moving away from sitting in judgement on every decision, what do you think we should do now?
You're asking Mat to fix Gladys mistakes now that everything has melted down? That's a bit rough.
I’m asking him what he thinks we should do now.

Is asking questions a bit rough on people?

If so, how do you manage in your media studies lectures?
What do you think we should do now?
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Nice pivot.

I think we are at the limits of what the measures themselves can achieve and the answer now is enforcement

This is going to be very unpopular but I think that we can help the process by explaining which and why behaviours are going to be enforced.

For example, food shops are a problem, so let’s enforce the numbers going into shops.
There are other enforcements too, that don’t involve police horses and general embargoes
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Muttonbirds
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Muttonbirds »

Gladys has lost the dressing room.

Sydneysiders see her 'suggestions' as a challenge, something to actively rebel against.

This is what very, very poor leadership looks like.
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UncleFB
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by UncleFB »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 am Nice pivot.

I think we are at the limits of what the measures themselves can achieve and the answer now is enforcement

This is going to be very unpopular but I think that we can help the process by explaining which and why behaviours are going to be enforced.

For example, food shops are a problem, so let’s enforce the numbers going into shops.
There are other enforcements too, that don’t involve police horses and general embargoes
It's what I teach the future Glady's and Scottys in my mythical media studies lectures.

Enforcement would be nice, some of us have been calling for it for a while now. Glad to have you onboard, choo choo.

What are the other enforcements too you mention?
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:40 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 am Nice pivot.

I think we are at the limits of what the measures themselves can achieve and the answer now is enforcement

This is going to be very unpopular but I think that we can help the process by explaining which and why behaviours are going to be enforced.

For example, food shops are a problem, so let’s enforce the numbers going into shops.
There are other enforcements too, that don’t involve police horses and general embargoes
It's what I teach the future Glady's and Scottys in my mythical media studies lectures.

Enforcement would be nice, some of us have been calling for it for a while now. Glad to have you onboard, choo choo.

What are the other enforcements too you mention?
LOL

Calling for ‘enforcement’ without stipulating what you mean by that is coffee-house debate standard

You lecturers are pretty good as posing the questions while avoiding suggesting the answers

Let’s use a real example. What do you think of the Blacktown lockdown. In favour?
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UncleFB
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by UncleFB »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:44 am
UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:40 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 am Nice pivot.

I think we are at the limits of what the measures themselves can achieve and the answer now is enforcement

This is going to be very unpopular but I think that we can help the process by explaining which and why behaviours are going to be enforced.

For example, food shops are a problem, so let’s enforce the numbers going into shops.
There are other enforcements too, that don’t involve police horses and general embargoes
It's what I teach the future Glady's and Scottys in my mythical media studies lectures.

Enforcement would be nice, some of us have been calling for it for a while now. Glad to have you onboard, choo choo.

What are the other enforcements too you mention?
LOL

Calling for ‘enforcement’ without stipulating what you mean by that is coffee-house debate standard

You lecturers are pretty good as posing the questions while avoiding suggesting the answers

Let’s use a real example. What do you think of the Blacktown lockdown. In favour?
I've been calling for a tighter enforced lockdown since the lockdown began with specific examples (one example from week one - actually enforcing the exercise rule rather than letting it become the picnic/drinks rule).

I just asked you for some examples of other enforcements you've mentioned and you've ignored it. There's stones and glass everywhere at the moment.

I didn't watch the presser today so have no idea about a specific Blacktown lock down.
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by guy smiley »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 am Nice pivot.

I think we are at the limits of what the measures themselves can achieve and the answer now is enforcement

This is going to be very unpopular but I think that we can help the process by explaining which and why behaviours are going to be enforced.

For example, food shops are a problem, so let’s enforce the numbers going into shops.
There are other enforcements too, that don’t involve police horses and general embargoes
I reckon as much as the interstate rivalry thing rankles, Victoria did it right and NSW could just apply the template. Stage 4… a 5km radius from home, 2 hrs out for exercise and only genuinely essential movement allowed. Food shopping one per household, pharmacy, doctor… that sort of thing, coupled with serious fines for infringing.
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Sure you have

I didn’t provide any more examples because I wanted to see if you would. Not that I was expecting any

I can provide plenty of thoughts on it. That’s because I’m not paralysed by the fear of being on the wrong side of history.

It’s easy to be the wokest guy in the room. You just have to avoid any grey areas - like being unable to comment on hard lockdowns for poor immigrants in housing commission blocks
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:54 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:37 am Nice pivot.

I think we are at the limits of what the measures themselves can achieve and the answer now is enforcement

This is going to be very unpopular but I think that we can help the process by explaining which and why behaviours are going to be enforced.

For example, food shops are a problem, so let’s enforce the numbers going into shops.
There are other enforcements too, that don’t involve police horses and general embargoes
I reckon as much as the interstate rivalry thing rankles, Victoria did it right and NSW could just apply the template. Stage 4… a 5km radius from home, 2 hrs out for exercise and only genuinely essential movement allowed. Food shopping one per household, pharmacy, doctor… that sort of thing, coupled with serious fines for infringing.
They have data. They know specifically where the problem lies

They’re not really telling us though (other than lists).

If it is now down to shops and chemists, then go hard on them.
There’s a limited amount of resources for enforcement, might as well apply it targetted.
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guy smiley
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by guy smiley »

I get what you’re saying Shanky, but I think we need a little bit of re-education through force applied to combat complacency, XingXiang style.
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Ali's Choice »

Shanky,

If you're genuinely interested in finding out what Victoria's restrictions have been more effective that those in Sydney, perhaps you should inform yourself about the differences? There are some fundamental differences that could explain the variance in effectiveness.
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

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guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:00 am I get what you’re saying Shanky, but I think we need a little bit of re-education through force applied to combat complacency, XingXiang style.
There’s a problem though, with that

The areas of Sydney worst affected, are also home to people who have immigrants etc.
If you’re going to pick on them, you’ve got an obvious PR problem

I’d prefer to pick on the behaviours, not the geographies
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 am Shanky,

If you're genuinely interested in finding out what Victoria's restrictions have been more effective that those in Sydney, perhaps you should inform yourself about the differences? There are some fundamental differences that could explain the variance in effectiveness.
Happy for you to elaborate, of course
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

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shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:55 am Sure you have

I didn’t provide any more examples because I wanted to see if you would. Not that I was expecting any

I can provide plenty of thoughts on it. That’s because I’m not paralysed by the fear of being on the wrong side of history.

It’s easy to be the wokest guy in the room. You just have to avoid any grey areas - like being unable to comment on hard lockdowns for poor immigrants in housing commission blocks
What the actual fvck are you on about now?

I'm not going to back through all the threads and recount every comment I've made about lockdowns, I gave you one specific one I could remember off the top of my head.

Why are you avoiding providing the other enforcements you mentioned?
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Ali's Choice »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 am Shanky,

If you're genuinely interested in finding out what Victoria's restrictions have been more effective that those in Sydney, perhaps you should inform yourself about the differences? There are some fundamental differences that could explain the variance in effectiveness.
Happy for you to elaborate, of course
Curfews
Masks outdoors
5km travel bubble
Closing all non-essential retail (too late now for NSW)
Limits placed on 25,000 people protesting on George St.
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guy smiley
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by guy smiley »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 am
guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:00 am I get what you’re saying Shanky, but I think we need a little bit of re-education through force applied to combat complacency, XingXiang style.
There’s a problem though, with that

The areas of Sydney worst affected, are also home to people who have immigrants etc.
If you’re going to pick on them, you’ve got an obvious PR problem

I’d prefer to pick on the behaviours, not the geographies
Jokes aside, what I had in mind was city wide, not targeted areas. I just read about the locked down apartment blocks and hadn’t realised that was a thing.

My perception is that there’s a degree of complacency in a lot of the general population and that is hard to counter without going hard and enforcing a blanket restriction.

I do believe that’s necessary to slow or halt the spread of the virus.
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:06 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 am Shanky,

If you're genuinely interested in finding out what Victoria's restrictions have been more effective that those in Sydney, perhaps you should inform yourself about the differences? There are some fundamental differences that could explain the variance in effectiveness.
Happy for you to elaborate, of course
Curfews
Masks outdoors
5km travel bubble
Closing all non-essential retail (too late now for NSW)
Limits placed on 25,000 people protesting on George St.
Of those, only masks outdoors is supported by the data. The 5Km rule is partly supported (if you stretch it to say 7km) and the curfew is not.
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Clearly they are running out of things to do - which probably just means that we have to do them (constraints at higher level) for longer.

So what can we do:
- look through any loop holes that might exist around what can be open / travel and movement
- focus on hotspots - eg the apartment block in its own lockdown and go hard for small number of days
- analysis of transmission points and how to over come - e.g. if chemists are a problem work with them to move services to the front door service only (no one into a shop) and pay them to support the impact here.
- revisit things like job keeper etc - to stop people feeling the need to move
- and we - the public - need to harden up a bit and do our bit
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Slim 293
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Slim 293 »

The other main point of difference between many of Victoria and NSW's restrictions, is that NSW have not made them clear, enforceable directives, but rather suggestions... please, if you can't, whatever, etc.
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:07 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 am
guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:00 am I get what you’re saying Shanky, but I think we need a little bit of re-education through force applied to combat complacency, XingXiang style.
There’s a problem though, with that

The areas of Sydney worst affected, are also home to people who have immigrants etc.
If you’re going to pick on them, you’ve got an obvious PR problem

I’d prefer to pick on the behaviours, not the geographies
Jokes aside, what I had in mind was city wide, not targeted areas. I just read about the locked down apartment blocks and hadn’t realised that was a thing.

My perception is that there’s a degree of complacency in a lot of the general population and that is hard to counter without going hard and enforcing a blanket restriction.

I do believe that’s necessary to slow or halt the spread of the virus.
You, yourself posted a story on the Melbourne fiasco.

I don’t think we have the luxury of alienating a group of people and maintaining our common decency.
I have the view we should be more sophisticated in our approach.

That’s not to say I’m right, but I can say that watching people bunched up outside a coffee shop when other people can’t go out the house, is problematic.
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:08 am Clearly they are running out of things to do - which probably just means that we have to do them (constraints at higher level) for longer.

So what can we do:
- look through any loop holes that might exist around what can be open / travel and movement
- focus on hotspots - eg the apartment block in its own lockdown and go hard for small number of days
- analysis of transmission points and how to over come - e.g. if chemists are a problem work with them to move services to the front door service only (no one into a shop) and pay them to support the impact here.
- revisit things like job keeper etc - to stop people feeling the need to move
- and we - the public - need to harden up a bit and do our bit
You’re a smart bloke, Greg

:thumbup:
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Oh, and as WCR said

Where’s the fvcking rapid testing kits!
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Ali's Choice »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:08 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:06 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 am Shanky,

If you're genuinely interested in finding out what Victoria's restrictions have been more effective that those in Sydney, perhaps you should inform yourself about the differences? There are some fundamental differences that could explain the variance in effectiveness.
Happy for you to elaborate, of course
Curfews
Masks outdoors
5km travel bubble
Closing all non-essential retail (too late now for NSW)
Limits placed on 25,000 people protesting on George St.
Of those, only masks outdoors is supported by the data. The 5Km rule is partly supported (if you stretch it to say 7km) and the curfew is not.
The curfew was very effective in Melbourne. You're still getting parties happening Sydney every night that are becoming super-spreader events and a curfew would make these easier to police.

Thank you for admitting that the other two measures would have an impact. And of course we all agree that closing non-essential retail in Sydney should have happened weeks ago.

I'm not blaming NSW altogether. Job Keeper and Job Seeker should have been reintroduced week ago, at 2020 levels. I thought ScoMo was the Prime Minister for NSW?
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Don’t you ever get tired of posting the same old prosletizing shite every day?

It’s like you should be religious or something. You’re wasted in politics.
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Ellafan
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Ellafan »

UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:04 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:55 am Sure you have

I didn’t provide any more examples because I wanted to see if you would. Not that I was expecting any

I can provide plenty of thoughts on it. That’s because I’m not paralysed by the fear of being on the wrong side of history.

It’s easy to be the wokest guy in the room. You just have to avoid any grey areas - like being unable to comment on hard lockdowns for poor immigrants in housing commission blocks
What the actual fvck are you on about now?

I'm not going to back through all the threads and recount every comment I've made about lockdowns, I gave you one specific one I could remember off the top of my head.

Why are you avoiding providing the other enforcements you mentioned?
Uncle, when I proposed a structured analysis of various societal groups' attitude to acceptable casualty rates/lockdowns a few days ago, you dismissed and rejected it - and you refused to yourself attempt to answer the question Shanky had posed using some objectively defined structure.

This morning, Shanky has posed another question for discussion (a socratic enquiry of sorts), and your reaction, again, is to criticise, but without any positive suggestions of your own.
Last edited by Ellafan on Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Yeah!

Wot he said


:lol:
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by Clogs »

UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:09 am
Clogs wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:08 am Properly lock the fvck down. FFS!
I'm already planning Saturday brunch for after our lockdown ends on Friday.

Please tell me you are inviting over 20 guests from all over the state and that you are all going to cram into you tv room to loudly cheer for your football team for 2 hours.
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Clogs wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:34 am
UncleFB wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:09 am
Clogs wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:08 am Properly lock the fvck down. FFS!
I'm already planning Saturday brunch for after our lockdown ends on Friday.

Please tell me you are inviting over 20 guests from all over the state and that you are all going to cram into you tv room to loudly cheer for your football team for 2 hours.
I’m no internet-friend to UncleFB, but wishing death on him is a bit strong, bro

Withdraw at once.
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guy smiley
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by guy smiley »

shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:12 am
guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:07 am
shanky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 am
guy smiley wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:00 am I get what you’re saying Shanky, but I think we need a little bit of re-education through force applied to combat complacency, XingXiang style.
There’s a problem though, with that

The areas of Sydney worst affected, are also home to people who have immigrants etc.
If you’re going to pick on them, you’ve got an obvious PR problem

I’d prefer to pick on the behaviours, not the geographies
Jokes aside, what I had in mind was city wide, not targeted areas. I just read about the locked down apartment blocks and hadn’t realised that was a thing.

My perception is that there’s a degree of complacency in a lot of the general population and that is hard to counter without going hard and enforcing a blanket restriction.

I do believe that’s necessary to slow or halt the spread of the virus.
You, yourself posted a story on the Melbourne fiasco.

I don’t think we have the luxury of alienating a group of people and maintaining our common decency.
I have the view we should be more sophisticated in our approach.

That’s not to say I’m right, but I can say that watching people bunched up outside a coffee shop when other people can’t go out the house, is problematic.
I'm advocating a city wide lockdown, not a specific area model...?
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shanky
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Re: Sydney.... fvcked

Post by shanky »

Yeah.

And I’m disagreeing.

The NB can be released.
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