The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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lorcanoworms
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by lorcanoworms »

Greenwood loves the sound of his voice, his blog is very boring.
Ulsters Red Hand
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:53 pm
lorcanoworms wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:49 pm
Ulsters Red Hand wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:39 am Rassie has officially lost it

Munster fans, how do you like this guy?
Any Munster types I know soon got fed up with him.
He was very good when he was here, especially after a bad season the year before and Foley dying etc. Will always have credit in the bank for all that. But either taking too many or not enough of his meds
Was he like this at Munster? As in a bit off his rocker, more so than the average Munster native?
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Ulsters Red Hand wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:34 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:53 pm
lorcanoworms wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:49 pm
Ulsters Red Hand wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:39 am Rassie has officially lost it

Munster fans, how do you like this guy?
Any Munster types I know soon got fed up with him.
He was very good when he was here, especially after a bad season the year before and Foley dying etc. Will always have credit in the bank for all that. But either taking too many or not enough of his meds
Was he like this at Munster? As in a bit off his rocker, more so than the average Munster native?
Not at all...well regarded. Very clued in etc
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Sam Illo not going into the Connacht Academy, two year contract off the bat for him
Last edited by Banana Man on Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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IBWT
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by IBWT »

Connacht Rugby are pleased to announce the signing of Irish U20 international prop Sam Illo.

Illo represents Old Wesley RFC and has played at underage level at Leinster Rugby, before going on to feature at tighthead in all five of Ireland’s U20 Six Nations games this summer.

The 20-year-old has signed a two-year deal and will link up with the Connacht squad next week as they continue their pre-season preparations.

Commenting on the newest signing, Head Coach Andy Friend says:

“Sam’s arrival to Connacht is another boost for us ahead of the new season. He was one of Ireland’s standout performers in the U20 Six Nations and has a very bright future ahead of him. I’m confident that at Connacht he will be able to take his game to the next level and give us further options in the front row.”

Sam Illo says he can’t wait to join up with the squad:

“I’m over the moon to be joining Connacht Rugby and I’d like to thank Andy and all the coaches for giving me this opportunity. I’m especially looking forward to linking up with Colm Tucker after working closely with him while with the Ireland U20s. To sign my first pro contract is a dream come true and I can’t wait to get started with the rest of the squad.”
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Porterbelly1 »

Is he a loosehead or tighthead? Great potential undoubtedly but if he’s Buckley’s replacement then we’re in trouble.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:09 pm Is he a loosehead or tighthead? Great potential undoubtedly but if he’s Buckley’s replacement then we’re in trouble.
tight generally
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:05 pm Sam Illo not going into the Connacht Academy, two year contract off the bat for him
Senior control or development?
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Porterbelly1
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 pm He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
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Conspicuous
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:16 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 pm He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:21 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:16 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 pm He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
9k.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Bwen »

Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:21 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:16 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 pm He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
Do they get looked after in other ways i.e. accomodation, free supplements/gear/grub on site at training etc.?
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Porterbelly1
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Porterbelly1 »

In Connacht accommodation is usually paid for my the clubs. Or used to be anyway
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Bwen wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm
Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:21 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:16 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 pm He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
Do they get looked after in other ways i.e. accomodation, free supplements/gear/grub on site at training etc.?
Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

9k is laughable.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

irishrugbyua wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:34 pm 9k is laughable.
Its ridiculous - Im told, it was at one point as low as 5k

But it is 9k - is it any wonder we are seeing lads moving on, and have heard Ronan Loughnanne is more than likely going to go to the Ospreys.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 pm
Bwen wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm
Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:21 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:16 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 pm He had no offer from Leinster apparently. Development contract
He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
Do they get looked after in other ways i.e. accomodation, free supplements/gear/grub on site at training etc.?
Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 pm
Bwen wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm
Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:21 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:16 pm

He had an academy contract offer from Leinster

Will Reilly and Josh O Connor were offered sub academy and have taken full academy deals with Connacht. But my god the money for an academy contract is insanely poor. Had no idea until today
Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
Do they get looked after in other ways i.e. accomodation, free supplements/gear/grub on site at training etc.?
Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 pm
Bwen wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm
Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:21 pm

Probably talking less than €10k for first year academy players ?
Do they get looked after in other ways i.e. accomodation, free supplements/gear/grub on site at training etc.?
Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

That makes more sense about Illo, that he was offered but 'outbid' by a better contract. Still disappointed to lose him. Temi Lasisi might have been a better bet for Connacht as a LH though, no?

9k is a disgrace.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 pm
Bwen wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm

Do they get looked after in other ways i.e. accomodation, free supplements/gear/grub on site at training etc.?
Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 pm

Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
Add up all the benefits and then judge.

And aren't you the person who keeps on saying how much shit the IRFU are in? This isn't an organisation making huge profits exploiting young players, it's an organisation at risk of going under trying to survive.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

CM11 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:49 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm

Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
Add up all the benefits and then judge.

And aren't you the person who keeps on saying how much shit the IRFU are in? This isn't an organisation making huge profits exploiting young players, it's an organisation at risk of going under trying to survive.
I litterally spent two separate evenings last week talking with a player and his family entering the Connacht Academy about weighing this up, when he had an offer from Biarritz too earlier on in the year.

What a bizzare hill to die - yeah the IRFU is in dire, but throwing Year 1 Academy players a couple of grand more, not all of them come from affluent families like, do you think shorting the academy lads is the saving of the IRFU. Really?

We've lost Will Hickey (Ospreys), Karl Martin (Montpellier), Eoghan Barrett (Pau), dont know on the other two but Martin's was defo finance related.

If the FAI has not gone under, how in the name of God would the IRFU.
Last edited by Banana Man on Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Floppykid »

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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:27 pm

Subsidised accomodation

Connacht have a few spots for the acadmey lads and they share and rent is "reasonable"

Of course will get their gear, grub when in training etc - nutrition etc - sure thats the very least - you're not gonna have academy lads with sandwiches in tinfoil made at home while main lads get looed after.
But thats not really looked after - thats just part of the gig

It's feck all money - gone down from 16k - but they know lads will chase their dream. Maybe less of an issue if you're from big city, family can afford to send to expensive school but defo a challenge.
Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
How much should they get paid than €100k - complete nonsense. €15/16k would be about right but you do realise the Provinces are a bit short of cash at the moment. Do you think the Leinster lads pay full college fees for UCD?
You are right soccer is a global sport with alot more money, rugby is still niche. Your economic model is to match the sugardaddy clubs in France :lol: Sure we will lose some players if they want to persue short term gain which probally rules them out of representing their country in future if stay away.
Good on Illo he will get alot more gametime at Connacht and who knows he might return to Leinster in a few years, at least he is staying in the system.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:57 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:38 pm

Most of them also get a degree so do have something to fall back on if they don't make it.
But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
How much should they get paid than €100k - complete nonsense. €15/16k would be about right but you do realise the Provinces are a bit short of cash at the moment. Do you think the Leinster lads pay full college fees for UCD?
You are right soccer is a global sport with alot more money, rugby is still niche. Your economic model is to match the sugardaddy clubs in France :lol: Sure we will lose some players if they want to persue short term gain which probally rules them out of representing their country in future if stay away.
Good on Illo he will get alot more gametime at Connacht and who knows he might return to Leinster in a few years, at least he is staying in the system.
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

I'm not dying on any hill. I'm just saying it's not some rich organisation exploiting young players. I'm sure they've factored in losing players abroad and that's just a decision they have to live with while trying to be financially prudent.

It's not 6k extra, it's 6k*however many academy players there are in the country.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

Everyone take a breather :thumbup:
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

CM11 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:07 pm I'm not dying on any hill. I'm just saying it's not some rich organisation exploiting young players. I'm sure they've factored in losing players abroad and that's just a decision they have to live with while trying to be financially prudent.

It's not 6k extra, it's 6k*however many academy players there are in the country.
Ah you are bootlicking - big time. Munster have taken three players in, Connacht are doing the same, don't know about the other two, but lets just saw its 12 overall, and say they should get 15k. Thats 72K all in, a medium level player. I don't believe for a second they are that stuck, that the financial prudence needed can't lift it

I've more skin in the game here than anyone, I get it, but seeing the stress on a family who want to support their son make it in Ireland and commit fully as a pro to get €173 per week, has annoyed me greatly.

It is what it is? But do you think 9k is an laughable amount?
JoeyFantastic
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by JoeyFantastic »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
Do they get extra match bonuses or what? Munster leaned pretty heavily on Academy lads like Ben Healy last season, which is rough enough on him if he's on a 9k deal, no wonder he couldn't afford a haircut...

Also, any word on the Butler lad from Ennis? Thought he might get an academy spot if just to keep him away from the hurling...
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

JoeyFantastic wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:11 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
Do they get extra match bonuses or what? Munster leaned pretty heavily on Academy lads like Ben Healy last season, which is rough enough on him if he's on a 9k deal, no wonder he couldn't afford a haircut...

Also, any word on the Butler lad from Ennis? Thought he might get an academy spot if just to keep him away from the hurling...
Academy lads get win bounues - same value as the senior squad.

Butler has barely played rugby in two years, hasn't featured in underage sides etc - isn't within a country mile of an academy spot. Will stick with the hurling.
JoeyFantastic
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by JoeyFantastic »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:13 pm
JoeyFantastic wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:11 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
Do they get extra match bonuses or what? Munster leaned pretty heavily on Academy lads like Ben Healy last season, which is rough enough on him if he's on a 9k deal, no wonder he couldn't afford a haircut...

Also, any word on the Butler lad from Ennis? Thought he might get an academy spot if just to keep him away from the hurling...
Academy lads get win bounues - same value as the senior squad.

Butler has barely played rugby in two years, hasn't featured in underage sides etc - isn't within a country mile of an academy spot. Will stick with the hurling.
top man, cheers. No wonder Healy was nailing last minute kicks for the win bonuses etc. (Amazed they don't get match bonuses tbh)

The covid break has really f**ked over fringe lads alright.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:57 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:39 pm

But not all, and some will have started courses in one place and then move, but sure getting a degree is common enough, 3rd level education is a right, it's not like it is a selling point, nearly every young lad playing AIL will get a degree. These lads live and train as pros but dont get near pro money.

Needs addressing or will see more and more lads leave.
AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
How much should they get paid than €100k - complete nonsense. €15/16k would be about right but you do realise the Provinces are a bit short of cash at the moment. Do you think the Leinster lads pay full college fees for UCD?
You are right soccer is a global sport with alot more money, rugby is still niche. Your economic model is to match the sugardaddy clubs in France :lol: Sure we will lose some players if they want to persue short term gain which probally rules them out of representing their country in future if stay away.
Good on Illo he will get alot more gametime at Connacht and who knows he might return to Leinster in a few years, at least he is staying in the system.
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
€15/16k is about right for a lad who has not proven himself, we all know plenty of schoolboy superstars who weren't good enough at Senior Level or got injured early. Who knows if Conor Nash would have been good enough but if you break the bank for one player you will have to do it for all.
If they are good enough they will also get promoted to a Senior and much better paid contract quicker like Larmour, Doak at Ulster. They also make alot more money on appearances and other commercial deals if they are doing well. They have more chance of getting gametime at the provinces than most clubs abroad.
I know quite a few players in their mid 20's who joined Leinster on deals not much better than €10/12k some made it some didn't. They also had a load of other incentives in contracts re win bonuses, appearances etc. Tadhg Beirne joined Scarlets on Pittance as he had desire to still try to make it as Pro rugby player, it is not great but that is the economic reality of rugby.
If an 18/19 year old doesn't want to join probally one the best academies in the world but for a couple of grand fair enough. It is called investing in your future as a rugby player. We are not going to get everyone and that is just the way of the world. Provinces are cash strapped at the moment so hopefully when we get back crowds they will be able to pay more.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

JoeyFantastic wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:16 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:13 pm
JoeyFantastic wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:11 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
Do they get extra match bonuses or what? Munster leaned pretty heavily on Academy lads like Ben Healy last season, which is rough enough on him if he's on a 9k deal, no wonder he couldn't afford a haircut...

Also, any word on the Butler lad from Ennis? Thought he might get an academy spot if just to keep him away from the hurling...
Academy lads get win bounues - same value as the senior squad.

Butler has barely played rugby in two years, hasn't featured in underage sides etc - isn't within a country mile of an academy spot. Will stick with the hurling.
top man, cheers. No wonder Healy was nailing last minute kicks for the win bonuses etc. (Amazed they don't get match bonuses tbh)

The covid break has really f**ked over fringe lads alright.
Sorry I can't say for sure if the Academy lads get match fees, but I don't think so. There is defo a win bonus.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:19 pm
JoeyFantastic wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:16 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:13 pm
JoeyFantastic wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:11 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
Do they get extra match bonuses or what? Munster leaned pretty heavily on Academy lads like Ben Healy last season, which is rough enough on him if he's on a 9k deal, no wonder he couldn't afford a haircut...

Also, any word on the Butler lad from Ennis? Thought he might get an academy spot if just to keep him away from the hurling...
Academy lads get win bounues - same value as the senior squad.

Butler has barely played rugby in two years, hasn't featured in underage sides etc - isn't within a country mile of an academy spot. Will stick with the hurling.
top man, cheers. No wonder Healy was nailing last minute kicks for the win bonuses etc. (Amazed they don't get match bonuses tbh)

The covid break has really f**ked over fringe lads alright.
Sorry I can't say for sure if the Academy lads get match fees, but I don't think so. There is defo a win bonus.
Anyone in the 23 gets a win bonus and it is more for European matches.
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:17 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:00 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:57 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:47 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:43 pm

AIL lads don't get paid if do very little, most are basically paid students. We don't want it to get like soccer where lads are leaving school at 16 with no education and then thrown on the scrap heap.
It is like being an apprentice they don't get paid big bucks until qualifed i.e. Full contract, also shows if they have a desire to make it.
Would you stop.. .what apprentice makes 9k per year - thats €173 per week.

Soccer is a global sport with hundreds of clubs, we have four, a proper education system, you would swear the provinces are putting these lads through college, as opposed to a right they have

The desire to make it, spare me the 1970s macho man... they commit endless hours and take a shitty contract to follow their dream. I know exactly how the AIL works, lads can go to college, play AIL, have a part time job and earn more than an academy player. You need to incentivise it, or we will keep losing players to France and the UK
How much should they get paid than €100k - complete nonsense. €15/16k would be about right but you do realise the Provinces are a bit short of cash at the moment. Do you think the Leinster lads pay full college fees for UCD?
You are right soccer is a global sport with alot more money, rugby is still niche. Your economic model is to match the sugardaddy clubs in France :lol: Sure we will lose some players if they want to persue short term gain which probally rules them out of representing their country in future if stay away.
Good on Illo he will get alot more gametime at Connacht and who knows he might return to Leinster in a few years, at least he is staying in the system.
Where on Earth did I say they should get €100k? Where did you read that?

Are you intentionally obtuse or thick? How did I say match the French model? Thats madness- they get about €35k. There is a break off point, lads want to stay at home, but not for 25% of what they can get elsewhere, for some it has to be career choice, to maximise earnings due to circumstances.

Correct 15k is about right, 9k is ridiculous. There are easier ways of saving small money than potentially driving off young talent, its incredibly short sighted.

Not every Leinster player goes to UCD, most get bursaries or scholarships connected to that Uni, which makes up some the shortfall, but it is fairly small considering the level of training etc unless pulling the Ad Astra one in UCD etc. But you've Leinster lads all over the city

Baird/Dunne/Sheehan in Trinity
Hawkshaw in DCU

They know they can short the young lads, who will do anything to be a player, or families can support them, thats the model they go down. Fine, but it is small money at the end of the day and all contracts have to match up.

I would be surprised if this didn't contribute to Leinster losing out on Conor Nash.
€15/16k is about right for a lad who has not proven himself, we all know plenty of schoolboy superstars who weren't good enough at Senior Level or got injured early. Who knows if Conor Nash would have been good enough but if you break the bank for one player you will have to do it for all.
If they are good enough they will also get promoted to a Senior and much better paid contract quicker like Larmour, Doak at Ulster. They also make alot more money on appearances and other commercial deals if they are doing well. They have more chance of getting gametime at the provinces than most clubs abroad.
I know quite a few players in their mid 20's who joined Leinster on deals not much better than €10/12k some made it some didn't. They also had a load of other incentives in contracts re win bonuses, appearances etc. Tadhg Beirne joined Scarlets on Pittance as he had desire to still try to make it as Pro rugby player, it is not great but that is the economic reality of rugby.
If an 18/19 year old doesn't want to join probally one the best academies in the world but for a couple of grand fair enough. It is called investing in your future as a rugby player. We are not going to get everyone and that is just the way of the world. Provinces are cash strapped at the moment so hopefully when we get back crowds they will be able to pay more.
I take some of those points, but do you know many Academy players able to command commercial deals?

That is the reason they stay and take less cash, why there has been so few going abroad, but for some they can't afford that, 3 years at an academy level somewhere else might be the equal of 5 years of deals up here.

Shorting young players so much isn't sitting well with me, and as if I said, if I wasn't involved in this process, would I care as much, probably not.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:10 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:07 pm I'm not dying on any hill. I'm just saying it's not some rich organisation exploiting young players. I'm sure they've factored in losing players abroad and that's just a decision they have to live with while trying to be financially prudent.

It's not 6k extra, it's 6k*however many academy players there are in the country.
Ah you are bootlicking - big time. Munster have taken three players in, Connacht are doing the same, don't know about the other two, but lets just saw its 12 overall, and say they should get 15k. Thats 72K all in, a medium level player. I don't believe for a second they are that stuck, that the financial prudence needed can't lift it

I've more skin in the game here than anyone, I get it, but seeing the stress on a family who want to support their son make it in Ireland and commit fully as a pro to get €173 per week, has annoyed me greatly.

It is what it is? But do you think 9k is an laughable amount?
I've no idea until you add up all the other benefits.
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Conspicuous
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:10 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:07 pm I'm not dying on any hill. I'm just saying it's not some rich organisation exploiting young players. I'm sure they've factored in losing players abroad and that's just a decision they have to live with while trying to be financially prudent.

It's not 6k extra, it's 6k*however many academy players there are in the country.
Ah you are bootlicking - big time. Munster have taken three players in, Connacht are doing the same, don't know about the other two, but lets just saw its 12 overall, and say they should get 15k. Thats 72K all in, a medium level player. I don't believe for a second they are that stuck, that the financial prudence needed can't lift it

I've more skin in the game here than anyone, I get it, but seeing the stress on a family who want to support their son make it in Ireland and commit fully as a pro to get €173 per week, has annoyed me greatly.

It is what it is? But do you think 9k is an laughable amount?
Let’s not overegg the pudding , their families would be under a lot more pressure if they had to send these lads to college. 9k a year is pretty shit but for the most part academy players aren’t putting bums on seats or contributing to revenue remember. With subsided accommodation, other benefits and a bit of part time work I’m sure they’ll survive
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Banana Man
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Conspicuous wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 pm
Banana Man wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:10 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:07 pm I'm not dying on any hill. I'm just saying it's not some rich organisation exploiting young players. I'm sure they've factored in losing players abroad and that's just a decision they have to live with while trying to be financially prudent.

It's not 6k extra, it's 6k*however many academy players there are in the country.
Ah you are bootlicking - big time. Munster have taken three players in, Connacht are doing the same, don't know about the other two, but lets just saw its 12 overall, and say they should get 15k. Thats 72K all in, a medium level player. I don't believe for a second they are that stuck, that the financial prudence needed can't lift it

I've more skin in the game here than anyone, I get it, but seeing the stress on a family who want to support their son make it in Ireland and commit fully as a pro to get €173 per week, has annoyed me greatly.

It is what it is? But do you think 9k is an laughable amount?
Let’s not overegg the pudding , their families would be under a lot more pressure if they had to send these lads to college. 9k a year is pretty shit but for the most part academy players aren’t putting bums on seats or contributing to revenue remember. With subsided accommodation, other benefits and a bit of part time work I’m sure they’ll survive
But the college costs are still there, my lad is having to move course, there will be some fees, books etc all that jazz. The accomdation is subsidised but not significantly.

No part time work - part of the deal basically as you use evening 2 days a week for specific gym stuff, 2 days training with a local club, 1 day college.

Then at weekend, go off and play AIL.

So the family still pays for college stuff for sure. They will survive, it isn't breadline stuff, but they will probably take out a bridge loan. Now look, they are from a rural club etc, it isn't the same for everyone granted

You can make the argument that lots of players don't put bums on seats, its part of the overall collective, and investing in the future, so they can.
Last edited by Banana Man on Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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