NZ Politics Thread

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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:55 am
brat wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:02 amEveryone can see that this gives incompetent.
Covid-19 deaths/million:

UK - 1900
USA - 1889
Australia - 36
NZ, under a Labour government - 5

:nod:

And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Except they're not, they're well up in the rankings now.
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
brat
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by brat »

Muttonbirds wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:55 am
brat wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:02 amEveryone can see that this gives incompetent.
Covid-19 deaths/million:

UK - 1900
USA - 1889
Australia - 36
NZ, under a Labour government - 5

:nod:
Yawn

Funnily enough there's more to governing than just covid response..which of course we had numerous advantages over other countries anyway and therefore not always comparable

That said it's no wonder you bought this up ..as theres bugger all else positive that has come from this incompetent government
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
Do you not know how to read dates, that graph is damn near 3 weeks old.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:46 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
Do you not know how to read dates, that graph is damn near 3 weeks old.

And?

We are doing f all a day.
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
OK fair point

Official up to date

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/dis ... ata#total-

Second dose administered yesterday 4647 - Overall both doses 747912

NZ Pop - 4.917 million

15%
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JB1981
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JB1981 »

This looks like current data and has some interesting representations.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coro ... nd-access/

Edit: perhaps not as current as the one above based on our percentage.
Last edited by JB1981 on Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
A start?

They have had more than a fvken year and a half
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

JB1981 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:04 am This looks like current data and has some interesting representations.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coro ... nd-access/

Edit: perhaps not as current as the one above based on our percentage.
Cheers mate.

Really good link
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RuggaBugga
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
How many countries do you think there are in the world dumb arse? Ball park figure will do.

Hint: It's more than 18
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

RuggaBugga wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:18 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
How many countries do you think there are in the world dumb arse? Ball park figure will do.

Hint: It's more than 18
I didn't write the link my slow minded friend, but guessing they are talking OECD.

Would you like me to explain what that means?
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
A start?

They have had more than a fvken year and a half
Shit, they've had the vaccine for a year & a half, didn't realise that!
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:26 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
A start?

They have had more than a fvken year and a half
Shit, they've had the vaccine for a year & a half, didn't realise that!
Fair point a whole year roughly
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Muttonbirds
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
:? I got my numbers from the Worldometers Coronavirus stats page.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Muttonbirds wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:35 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
:? I got my numbers from the Worldometers Coronavirus stats page.
Side topic Muttons.

What do you think of Arden caving to the Nats and opening up to the Island workers after her popularity ditched a bit teensiest in the poll.

Panicky?

Fear?

Can't handle the jandle?
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:26 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
A start?

They have had more than a fvken year and a half
Shit, they've had the vaccine for a year & a half, didn't realise that!
Fair point a whole year roughly
Only available since January so not even close to a year, with no guarantees set from Pfizer in February so even less time.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:26 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:54 am https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/448 ... n-auckland

Not perfect but a start, not that you'd care if it was 20,000 as it wouldn't suit your narrative.
A start?

They have had more than a fvken year and a half
Shit, they've had the vaccine for a year & a half, didn't realise that!
Fair point a whole year roughly
Only available since January so not even close to a year, with no guarantees set from Pfizer in February so even less time.
The govt chose to go only Pfizer ad said we were fron of the queue.

Explain the stats
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

My medicaL CENTER actually rang me on Friday to book one.

I am probably in the most pointless groupe to get it after teenagers and only 20% of group 3 vulnerable people have been sorted with their first.

It is a tad stupid.
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:15 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 am
Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:26 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:05 am

A start?

They have had more than a fvken year and a half
Shit, they've had the vaccine for a year & a half, didn't realise that!
Fair point a whole year roughly
Only available since January so not even close to a year, with no guarantees set from Pfizer in February so even less time.
The govt chose to go only Pfizer ad said we were fron of the queue.

Explain the stats
Explain what stats, don't have to explain anything to the likes of you. I will hold my verdict of the whole roll out towards the end of the year when we'll have a better idea of how it all went.

Given this government would have trouble organising a pissup in a brewery with the beer already poured I have my doubts but we'll see.
Eugenius
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Eugenius »

The EY report says New Zealand is – for now – in the No 1 position in the global fight against the negative economic and health impacts associated with the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic.


https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.news ... on%3famp=1

Not too shabby .
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Eugenius »

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RuggaBugga
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:24 am
RuggaBugga wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:18 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
How many countries do you think there are in the world dumb arse? Ball park figure will do.

Hint: It's more than 18
I didn't write the link my slow minded friend, but guessing they are talking OECD.

Would you like me to explain what that means?
Yes, please do.

While you are at it maybe you could clarify how many countries are members and stop referring to it as "the whole world" in an attempt to make a stupid partisan point.

Dumb arse.
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

sigh
Last edited by Gordon Bennett on Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

There are many things this government can be criticized for, but the covid response, even with the flaws that have been identified, is not really one of them.

You could even pick a few discussion points out of one of the links above.
GDP per capita is 25% lower than
OECD best performers.
Productivity is 35% lower than
OECD best performers.
Inequality is higher than in most advanced economies.
Not that those issues are new or specific to this government alone, but they're likely to be more interesting discussion points than trying to bag the current Government on it's Covid response.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Housing crisis... what crisis?

(apologies to Supertramp fans)

In the wake of the Human Rights Commission's announcement of an investigation into NZ's housing crisis, citing the right to a home and successive government failure to address that over decades, the response appears to be 'we're doing all we can'.

Yeah nah. That's not enough... and today's announcement from Grant Robertson that they'll tighten further the LVR's and debt to income ratios won't go anywhere towards providing homes for those who need it, instead aimed at 'cooling the market'. Too late, that's cooked.

I found this from Bernard Hickey outlining some steps the govt aren't taking to fix the housing market problem and I reckon it bears a looking at and a chatting about.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by merlin the happy pig »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:06 pm Housing crisis... what crisis?

(apologies to Supertramp fans)

In the wake of the Human Rights Commission's announcement of an investigation into NZ's housing crisis, citing the right to a home and successive government failure to address that over decades, the response appears to be 'we're doing all we can'.

Yeah nah. That's not enough... and today's announcement from Grant Robertson that they'll tighten further the LVR's and debt to income ratios won't go anywhere towards providing homes for those who need it, instead aimed at 'cooling the market'. Too late, that's cooked.

I found this from Bernard Hickey outlining some steps the govt aren't taking to fix the housing market problem and I reckon it bears a looking at and a chatting about.
Just a specific comment about the affordability index used. Ratio of average price to average wage isn't a true measure of affordability.
The true measure is the number of years it would take to service the mortgage which is a function of both purchase price and interest rates.
We have historically high values, but historically low interest rates. Probably affordability is still poor, but perhaps not as bad as indicated here.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

The problem with that is, interest rates aren't fixed. Who's to say we won't see a successive rise over coming years?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Yes, low interest rates are a relatively modern thing. It wasn't all that long ago that rates were horrendous. 20% or so at one stage iirc?

Most of the changes that are supposed to make it easier for first home buyers actually seem to make it harder. They end up needing much larger deposits, and still often end up with a lending limit that leaves them unable to complete in the market. Especially as their savings often can't keep up with the increases in property prices. Problems that those who already have money or capital don't have to face, be they existing home owners or investors.

The larger players don't have any real interest in solving the problem. Banks for example are quite happy to lend out more and more money, but won't want to see the properties those loans are secured against lose value. And those building new properties are probably happy to keep the market in catch up and values high as well.
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

merlin the happy pig wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:17 pm
guy smiley wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:06 pm Housing crisis... what crisis?

(apologies to Supertramp fans)

In the wake of the Human Rights Commission's announcement of an investigation into NZ's housing crisis, citing the right to a home and successive government failure to address that over decades, the response appears to be 'we're doing all we can'.

Yeah nah. That's not enough... and today's announcement from Grant Robertson that they'll tighten further the LVR's and debt to income ratios won't go anywhere towards providing homes for those who need it, instead aimed at 'cooling the market'. Too late, that's cooked.

I found this from Bernard Hickey outlining some steps the govt aren't taking to fix the housing market problem and I reckon it bears a looking at and a chatting about.
Just a specific comment about the affordability index used. Ratio of average price to average wage isn't a true measure of affordability.
The true measure is the number of years it would take to service the mortgage which is a function of both purchase price and interest rates.
We have historically high values, but historically low interest rates. Probably affordability is still poor, but perhaps not as bad as indicated here.
Not quite true, just brought a house today (first one) - the problem is two-fold being able to get together a decent enough deposit and then being able to borrow enough to actually buy the house and price factors into both of those. The mortgage I can get I can easily service in 15 years however without having a large enough deposit (around 65% of the house price) would not have been able to get even near ... and this wasn't a flash house.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by merlin the happy pig »

guy smiley wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:21 pm The problem with that is, interest rates aren't fixed. Who's to say we won't see a successive rise over coming years?
I agree, I actually expect we will see a rise from these historic lows.
But the last 25 years has seen a steady decline from around 10% to virtually zero.
The effect can't be dismissed, even if it also can't be accurately predicted.

Of course the high house prices are at least partly a result of the low interest rates.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by merlin the happy pig »

Fat Old Git wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:09 am Yes, low interest rates are a relatively modern thing. It wasn't all that long ago that rates were horrendous. 20% or so at one stage iirc?

Most of the changes that are supposed to make it easier for first home buyers actually seem to make it harder. They end up needing much larger deposits, and still often end up with a lending limit that leaves them unable to complete in the market. Especially as their savings often can't keep up with the increases in property prices. Problems that those who already have money or capital don't have to face, be they existing home owners or investors.

The larger players don't have any real interest in solving the problem. Banks for example are quite happy to lend out more and more money, but won't want to see the properties those loans are secured against lose value. And those building new properties are probably happy to keep the market in catch up and values high as well.
In the end the only thing that will really bring house prices down is to build more of them. More easily said than done obviously.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

merlin the happy pig wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:07 am
guy smiley wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:21 pm The problem with that is, interest rates aren't fixed. Who's to say we won't see a successive rise over coming years?
I agree, I actually expect we will see a rise from these historic lows.
But the last 25 years has seen a steady decline from around 10% to virtually zero.
The effect can't be dismissed, even if it also can't be accurately predicted.

Of course the high house prices are at least partly a result of the low interest rates.
yeah, for sure.
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

1. NZ should seriously invest in land for building houses on......buy the land (NZ Govt Asset).......develop the land (Govt paid)......rent the land as sections to build on at a manageable cost to families that wish to build their own house......use rent raised monies to purchase more land for housing.....

2. Control the release of sections to family home purchasers ......not investors......they only raise capital to build.

3. On end point usefamily who own the building, Govt purchase house and use it a state house rental....
Brabus
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Brabus »

The one decent idea Labour had to bring prices under control they bottled. As in abolishing the urban limit, unfortunately that didn't last a single election cycle.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Wignu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:46 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:28 am
Enzedder wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:17 am
Dark wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:10 am
And second worst country in the world for vaccine roll out.

Any comment on that Mutton.

Think they are more worried about the billion dollar cycle bridge you support so much which no one else wants.
Lord knows what numbers Mutton is quoting

Lord knows where you are getting your stats from

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html

Dumb and Dumber debating is so fun to watch
Apologies. Didn't realise you have no ability to read info'

-https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 689c39c467


Image
Do you not know how to read dates, that graph is damn near 3 weeks old.
And I can see about 80 countries missing.
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

terangi48 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:17 am 1. NZ should seriously invest in land for building houses on......buy the land (NZ Govt Asset).......develop the land (Govt paid)......rent the land as sections to build on at a manageable cost to families that wish to build their own house......use rent raised monies to purchase more land for housing.....

2. Control the release of sections to family home purchasers ......not investors......they only raise capital to build.

3. On end point usefamily who own the building, Govt purchase house and use it a state house rental....
Again ... find houses that have remained empty for 6 months

Tax them 10% of value per annum

60,000+ houses become available to live in
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Couple of things

Collins is an idiot.

And Ardern was off sick today. You know what means.

She is WEAK and and continues to show publicly she is WEAK.
Judith Collins suggests referendum on name of New Zealand, despite using 'Aotearoa' while in Government

National leader Judith Collins has backed calls for a referendum on the name of New Zealand, saying Kiwis are getting “tetchy” about the word Aotearoa being used without consultation.

But press releases from National’s time in Government show the word being used frequently to mean New Zealand, including in the 2014 speech from the throne and by Collins herself when she was Ethnic Affairs Minister.

“Aotearoa” means “land of the long white cloud” in te reo and has a contested history as the widely used te reo name for New Zealand.

Collins was speaking to media after her MP Stuart Smith wrote a column saying that while he did not have a personal view on the use of Aotearoa, Kiwis should be consulted on the use of it by Government.

“It is presumptuous and disrespectful to make a decision of such cultural importance for the country without engaging all who live there,” Smith wrote.

Collins said she agreed with Smith and that people deserved to have a say on a matter of such importance.

Do you think we need a referendum on the name of New Zealand? Share your opinion in the comments below.

“People are starting to get, I think, quite tetchy about that, they’re feeling like they’re not being included in that debate.”

“The public has a right to vote on that.”

She pointed to large corporations and government departments using the term Aotearoa as evidence of its spread without consultation “by stealth”.

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Muttonbirds
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

Darth Ju wants to 'bottle' the Minister of Police. When challenged she tried to claim she meant put the genie back in the bottle which is such a dumb excuse not even Dark would buy it.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... liams.html
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