The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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irishrugbyua
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Munster Development XV: Patrick Campbell (PBC); George Coomber (CBC), Alan Flannery (Shannon RFC), Darragh French (UCC), Jamie Shanahan (Garryowen FC); Tony Butler (C) (Garryowen FC), Ethan Coughlan (Shannon RFC); Mark Donnelly (Garryowen FC), Scott Buckley (UCC), James French (UCC); Eoin O’Connor (Young Munster RFC), Paddy Kelly (Garryowen FC); John Forde (Cork Constitution FC), Fearghail O’Donoghue (Cashel RFC), Jack O’Sullivan (Cobh Pirates RFC).

Replacements: Ronan Loughnane (UCD), Kieran Ryan (Shannon RFC), James Kendrick (Garryowen FC), Edwin Edogbo (UCC), Sam O’Sullivan (UCC), Aaron Hehir (Shannon RFC), Jack Delaney (Garryowen FC), Sam Tarleton (Rockwell College), Luke Doyle (Shannon RFC).

Bold = u20
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

DOB wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:44 pm
hermie wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:00 pm Farrell has parted ways with the Schmidt regime in several different ways but one of the main things he needed to take care of is to lessen the reliance on Murray and Sexton. If anything they are more embedded now than when he started as he's selected players who aren't up to it behind them.

Byrne Jr and Casey will eventually move up but let's be honest they aren't fully trusted as yet and they probably won't have the requisite game time come the next world cup.

For me Ross Byrne is better than Billy Burns and Carty, on form, is better than both. There's a huge onus on Carbery who I feel won't live up to expectations as a 10. JGP isn't even first choice for Leinster and Cooney has been shafted. Blade is preferred to him even though he's injured but he only has 1 cap. Is a major balls up.
The fact we’re talking and Ross, Burns and Carty as the alternatives, is the reason Sexton hasn’t yet been replaced. Farrell will probably, sooner or later, have to back one of them (or Joey, or Harry) over the others, but until he does, and probably for a while after too, there’s going to be a Sexton-shape shadow over the 10 shirt.
It's just plain lazy to say there's nobody else when it comes to halfbacks. They've omitted talented options (Carty and Cooney), failed to get the most out the limited players they have selected and refused to back youth as an alternative. Blade and Harry Byrne have 1 cap apiece. They deserve some credit for Casey but 3rd choice 3 years out from an u20 GS where he was the best player on the team is hardly something to shout from the rafters.

It's not a slight on Sexton but he'll be 38 come the RWC and isn't even contracted until then. To be where we're at with the options we have is a travesty in such key positions. Murray while not as old is in a downward spiral. Yes he went with the Lions but isn't really coming back with any more credit in the bank. If anything all the opposite.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by iarmhiman »

Get the feeling the Saffas think they're going to walk this league.

I actually know very little about them. Is their confidence merited?
Deco2
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Deco2 »

iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:35 pm Get the feeling the Saffas think they're going to walk this league.

I actually know very little about them. Is their confidence merited?
They'll walk through the dross, only the top two or three teams will trouble them - Leinster, Ulster, maybe Munster on a good day.
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lorcanoworms
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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Oz brilliant at times yet infuriating at other times.
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diarm
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by diarm »

Deco2 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:00 am
iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:35 pm Get the feeling the Saffas think they're going to walk this league.

I actually know very little about them. Is their confidence merited?
They'll walk through the dross, only the top two or three teams will trouble them - Leinster, Ulster, maybe Munster on a good day.
Ulster :lol:
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

lorcanoworms wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:10 am Oz brilliant at times yet infuriating at other times.
Yeah pretty classy in their best moments. All the islanders starting to make a difference, Hooper at the top of his game. Stick Skelton back in and that would be some side!
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Porterbelly1
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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Connacht won the development game 66-7
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HighKingLeinster
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by HighKingLeinster »

Porterbelly1 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:34 pm Connacht won the development game 66-7
The high point of your season and it hasnt even started properly yet :thumbup:
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Porterbelly1
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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HighKingLeinster wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:43 pm
Porterbelly1 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:34 pm Connacht won the development game 66-7
The high point of your season and it hasnt even started properly yet :thumbup:
Indeed. Open top bus down the M50
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lemonhead
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by lemonhead »

Ladies back on form away to Italy :thumbup:

Organisation's still a total mess but can't have been an easy week for them.
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Mr. Very Popular
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

7's in the SF against Kenya at 9:20

Conor Philips looks like he could be a very good 15 for Munster
quarter2four
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by quarter2four »

Mr. Very Popular wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:41 pm 7's in the SF against Kenya at 9:20

Conor Philips looks like he could be a very good 15 for Munster
Bit of a manshaming so far. Kenyans looking impressive.
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lemonhead
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by lemonhead »

Not a huge surprise watching the QFs, Kenya sped away from a very handy USA team while our lads were running in treacle.

Is this more of a development leg of the circuit? Don't recognise anyone out there.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Zico »

I'm watching a replay of the Leinster v Harlequins pre-season game at Lansdowne.

Looks like there was a good few at it.

Good sign for the Bulls game on Saturday.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

I see Patrick Campbell scored hat-trick for Munster A at the weekend, certainly one to watch out for, was a big prospect for the Cork footballers.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by PornDog »

Deco2 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:00 am
iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:35 pm Get the feeling the Saffas think they're going to walk this league.

I actually know very little about them. Is their confidence merited?
They'll walk through the dross, only the top two or three teams will trouble them - Leinster, Ulster, maybe Munster on a good day.
Obviously the likes of the Bulls are a good deal better than the Cheetahs, but I would overall expect the SA teams to follow the same performance pattern that the Cheetahs did - a good deal worse than they actually are on the road, and a good deal better than they actually are at home. Certainly there is a lot of dross to be mopped up, but the Cheetahs were poor even in those away games and then look at the Bulls in the Rainbow Cup final.
With fans back and Sexton with a point to prove, against the best SA team as well, I expect Leinster to put a score on the Bulls.
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

PornDog wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:14 am
Deco2 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:00 am
iarmhiman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:35 pm Get the feeling the Saffas think they're going to walk this league.

I actually know very little about them. Is their confidence merited?
They'll walk through the dross, only the top two or three teams will trouble them - Leinster, Ulster, maybe Munster on a good day.
Obviously the likes of the Bulls are a good deal better than the Cheetahs, but I would overall expect the SA teams to follow the same performance pattern that the Cheetahs did - a good deal worse than they actually are on the road, and a good deal better than they actually are at home. Certainly there is a lot of dross to be mopped up, but the Cheetahs were poor even in those away games and then look at the Bulls in the Rainbow Cup final.
With fans back and Sexton with a point to prove, against the best SA team as well, I expect Leinster to put a score on the Bulls.
That's fighting talk! I think the Bulls will come out of he blocks. Hopefully we can live with them/reel them in later as there's bound to be some rust the first game of the season. Should be a cracker.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DeDoc »

hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:06 am
That's fighting talk! I think the Bulls will come out of he blocks. Hopefully we can live with them/reel them in later as there's bound to be some rust the first game of the season. Should be a cracker.
I'm not familiar with their players, but their touring squad is here:
https://bullsrugby.co.za/vodacom-bulls- ... urc-games/

Seems to be missing 5/6 players who were in the SA squad for the games against Australia etc
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

Lots of familiar names there surely even without a couple of internationals.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:22 am I see Patrick Campbell scored hat-trick for Munster A at the weekend, certainly one to watch out for, was a big prospect for the Cork footballers.
What position?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:40 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:22 am I see Patrick Campbell scored hat-trick for Munster A at the weekend, certainly one to watch out for, was a big prospect for the Cork footballers.
What position?
fullback at the weekend
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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lemonhead wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:43 pm Not a huge surprise watching the QFs, Kenya sped away from a very handy USA team while our lads were running in treacle.

Is this more of a development leg of the circuit? Don't recognise anyone out there.
I watched all their games, Irish team were all young lads and Michael roche. They had 2 lads who played in the Leinster V harlequins game previous week in Turner and Cosgrave who went off in that game after nearly getting decapitated. Then the rest of the team were mainly last years under 20s. All the other teams were specialist 7's team. We really missed a Kennedy/Conroy to make things out of nothing.
I am not sure they even had any forwards on the team, turner and Jennings were in the scrums. Wasn't impressed with Moxham don't think he will reach top level. Jennings was excellent, reckon he has potential to go whole way. Conor Phillips was decent as well, will he get a run out with Munster.
Kenya game was like men v boys.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
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Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Matt Healy, maybe?
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:30 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
I thought if good enough you got an academy contract out of school, if you are very very good you will be bumped up quickly to senior contract like Larmour. So neither wanted to wait thats fine, it is a Pro game. If they rated high enough they would have got academy contracts not everyone is going to get one, They can't tear it all up for one or 2 players. If they are good enough and want to play for Ireland they will return to play for a Provincal team. Thats pro rugby I am afraid, some will look for the money early and fair play to them. Others will back themselves to get into a Provincial team and work their way up.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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anonymous_joe wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:39 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Matt Healy, maybe?
He is decent but his defence hasn't been good enough to make the final step up to international honours. Fair play he has done as well as he can be but are Leinster saying he is the difference maker, don't think so.
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Post by anonymous_joe »

Of an older generation, Geordan and Johne Murphy?
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Post by irishrugbyua »

Conor O’Brien, Jamison Gibson-Park, Max Deegan and James Lowe all came through the game against Quins with no issues after their return from injury and are expected to train as normal this week.

In addition, Cullen confirmed that Andrew Porter (foot), Nick McCarthy (foot), Garry Ringrose (shoulder), Ciarán Frawley (shoulder) and Dan Leavy (knee) had all returned to full training this week and are available for selection.

Two players unavailable for selection this week will be Josh Murphy (calf) and Harry Byrne (foot) who are ruled out with minor injuries.

There was no new update on a number of players:

Jordan Larmour (groin), Dave Kearney (ankle), Michael Milne (calf), Will Connors (knee), Thomas Clarkson (hamstring), Tommy O’Brien (hamstring) and Jack Dunne (ankle).
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

anonymous_joe wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:23 pm Of an older generation, Geordan and Johne Murphy?
Geordan was actually an outhalf when went over at 18, would prefer Dempsey to turnstyles. Johnny murphy no where near hickie/horgan/L Fitz so no real loss, would have been a good squad player. He didn't tear it up for Munster.
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hermie
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:51 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:30 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:49 am Lucas Berti Newman signed with Bristol. Very talented outside back from Newbridge, probably concerns about his size but certainly another talent lost to abroad.
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
I thought if good enough you got an academy contract out of school, if you are very very good you will be bumped up quickly to senior contract like Larmour. So neither wanted to wait thats fine, it is a Pro game. If they rated high enough they would have got academy contracts not everyone is going to get one, They can't tear it all up for one or 2 players. If they are good enough and want to play for Ireland they will return to play for a Provincal team. Thats pro rugby I am afraid, some will look for the money early and fair play to them. Others will back themselves to get into a Provincial team and work their way up.
It's a relatively new phenomenon so only time will tell. 3 of the Michael's team from last year are in this year's crop but that's a higher number straight out of school than recent years. But mostly it's u20s lads plus some older such as Russell and Hernan. You can safely assume that the 3 standout players from the Newbridge side that beat Michael's - Mangan, Prendergast and this lad Newman - had been earmarked to potentially join the academy later down the track. You'd be worried that these lads get picked off. You have players like Will Hickey, Karl Martin and now Newman opting for academy contracts abroad instead of the sub academy as well as someone like Illo getting a full contract elsewhere over the academy deal that was on the table for him here. Plus potentially others in the offing. That's quite a few and none of whom essentially failed to 'make it' at Leinster as such. They've just been poached early.

It's particularly worrying because Leinster's academy is what sets us apart from our competitors but maybe not for long.
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irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:11 pm Conor O’Brien, Jamison Gibson-Park, Max Deegan and James Lowe all came through the game against Quins with no issues after their return from injury and are expected to train as normal this week.

In addition, Cullen confirmed that Andrew Porter (foot), Nick McCarthy (foot), Garry Ringrose (shoulder), Ciarán Frawley (shoulder) and Dan Leavy (knee) had all returned to full training this week and are available for selection.

Two players unavailable for selection this week will be Josh Murphy (calf) and Harry Byrne (foot) who are ruled out with minor injuries.

There was no new update on a number of players:

Jordan Larmour (groin), Dave Kearney (ankle), Michael Milne (calf), Will Connors (knee), Thomas Clarkson (hamstring), Tommy O’Brien (hamstring) and Jack Dunne (ankle).
:o
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Floppykid »

Harry Byrne verging into sick note territory.

God, watching the Aus/SA matches, the Lion's were dreadful.
That series was dreadful, two ultra cynical teams.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:35 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:51 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:30 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
I thought if good enough you got an academy contract out of school, if you are very very good you will be bumped up quickly to senior contract like Larmour. So neither wanted to wait thats fine, it is a Pro game. If they rated high enough they would have got academy contracts not everyone is going to get one, They can't tear it all up for one or 2 players. If they are good enough and want to play for Ireland they will return to play for a Provincal team. Thats pro rugby I am afraid, some will look for the money early and fair play to them. Others will back themselves to get into a Provincial team and work their way up.
It's a relatively new phenomenon so only time will tell. 3 of the Michael's team from last year are in this year's crop but that's a higher number straight out of school than recent years. But mostly it's u20s lads plus some older such as Russell and Hernan. You can safely assume that the 3 standout players from the Newbridge side that beat Michael's - Mangan, Prendergast and this lad Newman - had been earmarked to potentially join the academy later down the track. You'd be worried that these lads get picked off. You have players like Will Hickey, Karl Martin and now Newman opting for academy contracts abroad instead of the sub academy as well as someone like Illo getting a full contract elsewhere over the academy deal that was on the table for him here. Plus potentially others in the offing. That's quite a few and none of whom essentially failed to 'make it' at Leinster as such. They've just been poached early.

It's particularly worrying because Leinster's academy is what sets us apart from our competitors but maybe not for long.
Stop being so dramatic, if lose top talent like Prendergast/ Gunne than I will be worried, we are always going to lose some of the lads under that. Don't Blame Illo with the incumbent starting and backup tighthead at Leinster plus they are both young, it makes sense for him to move to Connacht. It is also probally better for Irish rugby and he will probally get more game time with the Senior team. There is nothing stopping these players coming back to Leinster later like Cian Kelleher, scrumhalf back from munster this year etc.
It is the competition to get into the Leinster academy that sets it apart. We can't take everyone and if we did that dillutes the standard.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:05 pm
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:35 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:51 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:30 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am

We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
I thought if good enough you got an academy contract out of school, if you are very very good you will be bumped up quickly to senior contract like Larmour. So neither wanted to wait thats fine, it is a Pro game. If they rated high enough they would have got academy contracts not everyone is going to get one, They can't tear it all up for one or 2 players. If they are good enough and want to play for Ireland they will return to play for a Provincal team. Thats pro rugby I am afraid, some will look for the money early and fair play to them. Others will back themselves to get into a Provincial team and work their way up.
It's a relatively new phenomenon so only time will tell. 3 of the Michael's team from last year are in this year's crop but that's a higher number straight out of school than recent years. But mostly it's u20s lads plus some older such as Russell and Hernan. You can safely assume that the 3 standout players from the Newbridge side that beat Michael's - Mangan, Prendergast and this lad Newman - had been earmarked to potentially join the academy later down the track. You'd be worried that these lads get picked off. You have players like Will Hickey, Karl Martin and now Newman opting for academy contracts abroad instead of the sub academy as well as someone like Illo getting a full contract elsewhere over the academy deal that was on the table for him here. Plus potentially others in the offing. That's quite a few and none of whom essentially failed to 'make it' at Leinster as such. They've just been poached early.

It's particularly worrying because Leinster's academy is what sets us apart from our competitors but maybe not for long.
Stop being so dramatic, if lose top talent like Prendergast/ Gunne than I will be worried, we are always going to lose some of the lads under that. Don't Blame Illo with the incumbent starting and backup tighthead at Leinster plus they are both young, it makes sense for him to move to Connacht. It is also probally better for Irish rugby and he will probally get more game time with the Senior team. There is nothing stopping these players coming back to Leinster later like Cian Kelleher, scrumhalf back from munster this year etc.
It is the competition to get into the Leinster academy that sets it apart. We can't take everyone and if we did that dillutes the standard.
Karl Martin and Lucas Berti Newman are top talents. It's why they got three year deals from clubs abroad.
irishrugbyua
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:35 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:51 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:30 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:55 am
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:55 am
:frown: that's a real shame, he looked great in their senior cup run. Hearing these types of stories far too frequently nowadays
We can't hold onto everybody, there is not unlimited pool of resources. What Leinster Back who didn't make the academy has gone on to be a star somewhere else?
Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
I thought if good enough you got an academy contract out of school, if you are very very good you will be bumped up quickly to senior contract like Larmour. So neither wanted to wait thats fine, it is a Pro game. If they rated high enough they would have got academy contracts not everyone is going to get one, They can't tear it all up for one or 2 players. If they are good enough and want to play for Ireland they will return to play for a Provincal team. Thats pro rugby I am afraid, some will look for the money early and fair play to them. Others will back themselves to get into a Provincial team and work their way up.
It's a relatively new phenomenon so only time will tell. 3 of the Michael's team from last year are in this year's crop but that's a higher number straight out of school than recent years. But mostly it's u20s lads plus some older such as Russell and Hernan. You can safely assume that the 3 standout players from the Newbridge side that beat Michael's - Mangan, Prendergast and this lad Newman - had been earmarked to potentially join the academy later down the track. You'd be worried that these lads get picked off. You have players like Will Hickey, Karl Martin and now Newman opting for academy contracts abroad instead of the sub academy as well as someone like Illo getting a full contract elsewhere over the academy deal that was on the table for him here. Plus potentially others in the offing. That's quite a few and none of whom essentially failed to 'make it' at Leinster as such. They've just been poached early.

It's particularly worrying because Leinster's academy is what sets us apart from our competitors but maybe not for long.
the three michaels lads all did a year in the sub-academy, so none of this years class joined straight from school. Closest that has happened recently was Jamie Osborne who did a few months in sub-academy before joining academy last Jan.

The requirement to do a year in the sub-academy biases later selection towards players who can afford to join the sub-academy for little to no pay and who live in south dublin.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:07 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:05 pm
hermie wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:35 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:51 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:30 pm

Not really the same comparison, Berti Newman got a 3 year contract from Bristol straight out of school as an 18 year old, he'd have made the leinster academy if he waited around for an academy contract but he didn't want to wait. Same with Karl Martin.

It's a worrying trend that some of the top talents in leinster rugby are leaving at 18 to go play abroad.
I thought if good enough you got an academy contract out of school, if you are very very good you will be bumped up quickly to senior contract like Larmour. So neither wanted to wait thats fine, it is a Pro game. If they rated high enough they would have got academy contracts not everyone is going to get one, They can't tear it all up for one or 2 players. If they are good enough and want to play for Ireland they will return to play for a Provincal team. Thats pro rugby I am afraid, some will look for the money early and fair play to them. Others will back themselves to get into a Provincial team and work their way up.
It's a relatively new phenomenon so only time will tell. 3 of the Michael's team from last year are in this year's crop but that's a higher number straight out of school than recent years. But mostly it's u20s lads plus some older such as Russell and Hernan. You can safely assume that the 3 standout players from the Newbridge side that beat Michael's - Mangan, Prendergast and this lad Newman - had been earmarked to potentially join the academy later down the track. You'd be worried that these lads get picked off. You have players like Will Hickey, Karl Martin and now Newman opting for academy contracts abroad instead of the sub academy as well as someone like Illo getting a full contract elsewhere over the academy deal that was on the table for him here. Plus potentially others in the offing. That's quite a few and none of whom essentially failed to 'make it' at Leinster as such. They've just been poached early.

It's particularly worrying because Leinster's academy is what sets us apart from our competitors but maybe not for long.
Stop being so dramatic, if lose top talent like Prendergast/ Gunne than I will be worried, we are always going to lose some of the lads under that. Don't Blame Illo with the incumbent starting and backup tighthead at Leinster plus they are both young, it makes sense for him to move to Connacht. It is also probally better for Irish rugby and he will probally get more game time with the Senior team. There is nothing stopping these players coming back to Leinster later like Cian Kelleher, scrumhalf back from munster this year etc.
It is the competition to get into the Leinster academy that sets it apart. We can't take everyone and if we did that dillutes the standard.
Karl Martin and Lucas Berti Newman are top talents. It's why they got three year deals from clubs abroad.
I guess time will tell, there are lots of Pro clubs out there so real surprise someone coming through Leinster system will get offers. I am sure most of them do if they go looking.
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