**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Winger_ wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 pm Thoughts on Radwan? He was electric today. I genuinely think he should be starting for England.

While Quins always had their noses in front, it was an encouraging start for us.
Good to see the likes of May and Watson pushed. Got to remember last season our backs were starved of opportunities.

The big question is what is Eddie going to do about Marcus
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Quins89 »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:05 pm
Winger_ wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 pm Thoughts on Radwan? He was electric today. I genuinely think he should be starting for England.

While Quins always had their noses in front, it was an encouraging start for us.
Good to see the likes of May and Watson pushed. Got to remember last season our backs were starved of opportunities.

The big question is what is Eddie going to do about Marcus
How do you mean Anon?

You think Eddie doesn’t know what to do with him or blindly play Farrell?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Winger_ »

If Eddie still picks Faz then hes f**king clueless. There is no way Faz should start ahead of Smith.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Quins89 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:28 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:05 pm
Winger_ wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 pm Thoughts on Radwan? He was electric today. I genuinely think he should be starting for England.

While Quins always had their noses in front, it was an encouraging start for us.
Good to see the likes of May and Watson pushed. Got to remember last season our backs were starved of opportunities.

The big question is what is Eddie going to do about Marcus
How do you mean Anon?

You think Eddie doesn’t know what to do with him or blindly play Farrell?
Farrell plays 12 to kick Ford's goals and totally changes the way England play should we play any other 12. Smith can kick his own goals so no need for Ford and Farrell.

Billy
Farrell
Ford
Young's
Daly

Undroppable
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

Radwan is a bit special.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 45jumper »

If Youngs and Daly start the autumn tests I genuinely think I'll have an aneurysm.
The former has a good-crap game ratio of about 1-6 and the latter has a good claim to be the most ineffective full-back England have had in a number of years. When he started on the wing he was electric but he's just got worse and worse. Dreadful in the air, a turnstile in defence and the attacking spark has disappeared. It's genuinely baffling to me how he continues to be picked, and the fact he started the first Lions test just shows how badly wrong Gatland got it.
Steward surely has to be a shoe-in and we desperately need new blood at nine. Anyone - Spencer, Robson, even a youngster like Quirke, Randall or Van Poortvliet would be infinitely preferable to Youngs' meerkat act followed by a looping pass into touch.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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45jumper wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:14 pm If Youngs and Daly start the autumn tests I genuinely think I'll have an aneurysm.
The former has a good-crap game ratio of about 1-6 and the latter has a good claim to be the most ineffective full-back England have had in a number of years. When he started on the wing he was electric but he's just got worse and worse. Dreadful in the air, a turnstile in defence and the attacking spark has disappeared. It's genuinely baffling to me how he continues to be picked, and the fact he started the first Lions test just shows how badly wrong Gatland got it.
Steward surely has to be a shoe-in and we desperately need new blood at nine. Anyone - Spencer, Robson, even a youngster like Quirke, Randall or Van Poortvliet would be infinitely preferable to Youngs' meerkat act followed by a looping pass into touch.
Youngs will start and Robson will continue to be the 5 minute understudy. It's no accident that with Youngs rested in the summer Robson has still not started a game for England.
We have a few options at fullback who would be better than Daly but Eddie seems to have gone all in with his number of caps needed to win a world cup theory.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

Youngs and Daly are both excellent footballers, and Youngs played very well for England in recent games and wasn't awful in the season opener against Exeter. Daly might be under more pressure as he was making mistakes playing for England and had been dropped for Malins. Whether Daly will again be a starting player I don't know, nor actually in what position, but he's at worst going to be an excellent shout for the outside back bench role

Yes Youngs might look rubbish again for England, especially if we play with slow ball and kick rather than attack ball in hand. But who is going to look good doing that? He doesn't tend to look bad when actually being asked to play, and he can cite an impressive win % when being asked to play in really boring fashion, so it's more a tactics thing it would seem, and Youngs doesn't set those
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

12 is still the problem position. Loads of options and talent coming through everywhere else. Manu obviously wants to be involved with England because he signed for Sale, but beyond him who is there? If Eddie parks Faz at 12 next to Smith it will be a disaster, he needs a running threat outside him.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

Winger_ wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:31 pm If Eddie still picks Faz then hes f**king clueless. There is no way Faz should start ahead of Smith.
Yeah, but Eddie trust's Faz's defense. Because all those missed tackles and shoulder barges won't be made by themselves.....
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

mr flaps wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:16 am Radwan is a bit special.
https://twitter.com/SaffasRugby/status/ ... 2324250630
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Mick Mannock wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:34 pm
mr flaps wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:16 am Radwan is a bit special.
https://twitter.com/SaffasRugby/status/ ... 2324250630
Filthy!

Ford looked good for tigers, him and Smith should be nailed on at 10.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Are England going to get Sarried or Quimmed. ITS ON
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:22 pm Are England going to get Sarried or Quimmed. ITS ON
Daly and both vunipolas rumoured to be dropped.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by You can call me Bill »

Seems a bit harsh on Mako.

Not saying he's in the same class, but dare it be said a little bit of the Jason Robinsons about Radwan ?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by blindcider »

mr flaps wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:43 pm 12 is still the problem position. Loads of options and talent coming through everywhere else. Manu obviously wants to be involved with England because he signed for Sale, but beyond him who is there? If Eddie parks Faz at 12 next to Smith it will be a disaster, he needs a running threat outside him.
This, England need to sort out 12 and Faz isn't the answer. Tuilagi also isn't the answer IMO, of the current squad for me Slade is the best fit at 12 but I think his best position is 13.

Twelvetrees is the big missed opportunity IMO, he had all the skillset to be a top quality 12 apart from perhaps the top 1% of mindset required. In his short England career he never did that much wrong (butchered a couple of overlaps is my recollection) but at club level was always good for a brainfart in most matches. Far too late now but 12 for England has been a problem since Greenwood retired
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Ollie Lawrence is a quality 12. He is a footballer though and Eddie Jones is mad trying to turn him into Manu. I think Malins, Marchant and others would all go well with Smith at fly half
Last edited by Anonymous 1 on Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

Ford, Daly and both Vunipolas confirmed as dropped for the next training squad. Loads more quims selected, including Louis Lynagh.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Atkinson at 12 could be a dark horse?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by You can call me Bill »

Is Nowell injured ?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:54 am Is Nowell injured ?
Forgot all about The Rotherham Flyer.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by forrester »

Really pleased for Atkinson but it’s probably a good couple of years too late. No Jamie George is a huge surprise.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

Lots of new players...... New coaches....... New game plan?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

blindcider wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:13 am
mr flaps wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:43 pm 12 is still the problem position. Loads of options and talent coming through everywhere else. Manu obviously wants to be involved with England because he signed for Sale, but beyond him who is there? If Eddie parks Faz at 12 next to Smith it will be a disaster, he needs a running threat outside him.
This, England need to sort out 12 and Faz isn't the answer. Tuilagi also isn't the answer IMO, of the current squad for me Slade is the best fit at 12 but I think his best position is 13.

Twelvetrees is the big missed opportunity IMO, he had all the skillset to be a top quality 12 apart from perhaps the top 1% of mindset required. In his short England career he never did that much wrong (butchered a couple of overlaps is my recollection) but at club level was always good for a brainfart in most matches. Far too late now but 12 for England has been a problem since Greenwood retired
In his final, final appearance for England, he came on for the last 5 minutes, missed three tackles and gave away a penalty. Those were his sole contributions. Great player, but questionable under pressure.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

forrester wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:25 am Really pleased for Atkinson but it’s probably a good couple of years too late. No Jamie George is a huge surprise.
It only counts if there is a game on
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Quins89 »

What’s the new EPS squad?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by blindcider »

message #2527204 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:45 am
blindcider wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:13 am
mr flaps wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:43 pm 12 is still the problem position. Loads of options and talent coming through everywhere else. Manu obviously wants to be involved with England because he signed for Sale, but beyond him who is there? If Eddie parks Faz at 12 next to Smith it will be a disaster, he needs a running threat outside him.
This, England need to sort out 12 and Faz isn't the answer. Tuilagi also isn't the answer IMO, of the current squad for me Slade is the best fit at 12 but I think his best position is 13.

Twelvetrees is the big missed opportunity IMO, he had all the skillset to be a top quality 12 apart from perhaps the top 1% of mindset required. In his short England career he never did that much wrong (butchered a couple of overlaps is my recollection) but at club level was always good for a brainfart in most matches. Far too late now but 12 for England has been a problem since Greenwood retired
In his final, final appearance for England, he came on for the last 5 minutes, missed three tackles and gave away a penalty. Those were his sole contributions. Great player, but questionable under pressure.
I try not to judge players too harshly in circumstances like that, put in a nearly impossible situation to have much positive effect on the game and can be difficult to get up to speed of the game and in tune with the ref. So common to see subs come on and immediately fall foul of the ref.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

blindcider wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:12 am
message #2527204 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:45 am
blindcider wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:13 am
mr flaps wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:43 pm 12 is still the problem position. Loads of options and talent coming through everywhere else. Manu obviously wants to be involved with England because he signed for Sale, but beyond him who is there? If Eddie parks Faz at 12 next to Smith it will be a disaster, he needs a running threat outside him.
This, England need to sort out 12 and Faz isn't the answer. Tuilagi also isn't the answer IMO, of the current squad for me Slade is the best fit at 12 but I think his best position is 13.

Twelvetrees is the big missed opportunity IMO, he had all the skillset to be a top quality 12 apart from perhaps the top 1% of mindset required. In his short England career he never did that much wrong (butchered a couple of overlaps is my recollection) but at club level was always good for a brainfart in most matches. Far too late now but 12 for England has been a problem since Greenwood retired
In his final, final appearance for England, he came on for the last 5 minutes, missed three tackles and gave away a penalty. Those were his sole contributions. Great player, but questionable under pressure.
I try not to judge players too harshly in circumstances like that, put in a nearly impossible situation to have much positive effect on the game and can be difficult to get up to speed of the game and in tune with the ref. So common to see subs come on and immediately fall foul of the ref.
He did make some brain farts for England, but it did seems like whilst he was making too many errors a large % of those errors came late in games England were losing and he was trying to force things that weren't on. But that still got conflated with some of the more mundane brain farts he made at club level and gave rise to the perception he was simply too error prone.

He also got little leeway for being tasked with putting shape, width and speed on our attack when given midfield partners like Barrett, Farrel, Tomkins and Burrell and back rows featuring people like Wood and Robshaw on the flanks, essentially there wasn't much skill, speed or quality decision making on attack, more a group of honest yeoman surrounding him
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by RodneyRegis »

England's 45-man training squad
Forwards
Jamie Blamire (Newcastle), Callum Chick (Newcastle), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter), Tom Curry (Sale), Trevor Davison (Newcastle), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Ellis Genge (Leicester), Joe Heyes (Leicester), Jonny Hill (Exeter), Ted Hill (Worcester), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Jack Kenningham (Harlequins), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Lewis Ludlow (Gloucester), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), Beno Obano (Bath), Gabriel Oghre (Wasps), Sam Riley (Harlequins), Bevan Rodd (Sale), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath).

Backs
Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Furbank (Northampton), Ollie Lawrence (Worcester), Louis Lynagh (Harlequins), Max Malins (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester), Raffi Quirke (Sale), Adam Radwan (Newcastle), Harry Randall (Bristol), Dan Robson (Wasps,), Henry Slade (Exeter), Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester).
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

Won’t happen, but this would go well.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler
4. Lawes
5. Maro
6. Martin
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. Robson
10. Smith
11 Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Malins
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by You can call me Bill »

Marler
Blamire
Sinkler
Itoje
Lawes
Underhill
Curry
Simmonds

Randall
Smith
Radwan
Manu
Slade
Lynagh
Steward
Last edited by You can call me Bill on Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

mr flaps wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm Won’t happen, but this would go well.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler
4. Lawes
5. Maro
6. Martin
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. Robson
10. Smith
11 Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Malins
I'd prefer to consider it might go well rather than it would. The confidence in advance that a side that's pretty much 50% novices would all settle at test level, all prove above par, would settle as units and as a side is questionable. We don't even know in advance they'd have the scrum sorted, nor the breakdown, nor the carrying even though a number of them might be thought carriers rather than more functional support players, we don't know how they'd function with just Smith and Malins as distributors in the backline

And then why would you just put aside a huge number of caps to even test such a theory? Essentially is the confidence such it couldn't fail, or is it just shiny new bauble thinking?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

mr flaps wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm Won’t happen, but this would go well.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler
4. Lawes
5. Maro
6. Martin
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. Robson
10. Smith
11 Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Malins
Not sure I rate Genge at test level. IMO Manu is far more effective at 13. Still think out bets backrow has Curry and Underhill in it.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

piquant wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:10 pm
mr flaps wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm Won’t happen, but this would go well.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler
4. Lawes
5. Maro
6. Martin
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. Robson
10. Smith
11 Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Malins
I'd prefer to consider it might go well rather than it would. The confidence in advance that a side that's pretty much 50% novices would all settle at test level, all prove above par, would settle as units and as a side is questionable. We don't even know in advance they'd have the scrum sorted, nor the breakdown, nor the carrying even though a number of them might be thought carriers rather than more functional support players, we don't know how they'd function with just Smith and Malins as distributors in the backline

And then why would you just put aside a huge number of caps to even test such a theory? Essentially is the confidence such it couldn't fail, or is it just shiny new bauble thinking?

Change is needed and It needs to happen now. There’s plenty of experience in that team and the players left out are either out of form like Slade or don’t fit like Faz. I also think the multiple ball players has been over done, Quins seem to manage ok.
If we choose to actually play some rugby that team will go well
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

mr flaps wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:32 pm
piquant wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:10 pm
mr flaps wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm Won’t happen, but this would go well.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler
4. Lawes
5. Maro
6. Martin
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. Robson
10. Smith
11 Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Malins
I'd prefer to consider it might go well rather than it would. The confidence in advance that a side that's pretty much 50% novices would all settle at test level, all prove above par, would settle as units and as a side is questionable. We don't even know in advance they'd have the scrum sorted, nor the breakdown, nor the carrying even though a number of them might be thought carriers rather than more functional support players, we don't know how they'd function with just Smith and Malins as distributors in the backline

And then why would you just put aside a huge number of caps to even test such a theory? Essentially is the confidence such it couldn't fail, or is it just shiny new bauble thinking?

Change is needed and It needs to happen now. There’s plenty of experience in that team and the players left out are either out of form like Slade or don’t fit like Faz. I also think the multiple ball players has been over done, Quins seem to manage ok.
If we choose to actually play some rugby that team will go well
And Quins do play at test level so it's a direct comparison! I mean ffs, mostly Quins fart around as the 6th/7th best side in the country in a not very fast paced domestic comp.

I'm not entirely saying you're wrong and it will not work. I would question whether we need to ditch en masse Vunipola, Vunipola, George, Underhill, Youngs, Daly, Farrell, Slade, Ford and May because change must happen for the sake of change. And not only must change happen you're then seemingly concluding if change is made that will lead to success, which is often the thinking of iffy management, but isn't synonymous with success

And I'm not sure what you're alluding to when saying some of them aren't in form, we're one game into the season, give 'em a chance, all of 'em. And I'm not sure what you mean when you if we choose to play some rugby, I'm in favour of the side keeping ball in hand and attacking more, but they've literally just done that in the 6N just gone, and now because they've done what you're saying you want that still ramps up the requirement for change?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

eldanielfire wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:31 pm
mr flaps wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm Won’t happen, but this would go well.

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Sinkler
4. Lawes
5. Maro
6. Martin
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt
9. Robson
10. Smith
11 Watson
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Malins
Not sure I rate Genge at test level. IMO Manu is far more effective at 13. Still think out bets backrow has Curry and Underhill in it.
I think Genge needs to be given a run of games to be sure, we know what Marler and Mako can do. I’d still go with a big 6 and have Underhill on the bench.
Manu has looked good at 12 and holds defenders and Smith obviously likes having a hard running 12 outside him.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Quins89 »

Would we not prefer Steward to Malins at 15?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

Because Malins has had one game and didn't do enough?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

As long as it's not Daly or Furbank I don't bloody care!
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

Daly has done an awful lot of good stuff, which is somewhat glossed over. But some of the errors are too undermining to his retaining the 15 shirt, more so when it's not clear what role Sarries will use him in
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