The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Kanbei wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:12 pm Connacht v Ulster next month taking place at the Aviva for some reason
Connacht probably have issues with social distancing at the sportsground? One of their cash cows so looking for a big crowd? That said, I thought you had to hit 25k+ in LR before breaking even.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
DeDoc wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:44 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:31 pm Another way of looking at this is that our talent development is so good, that top level French clubs are now sniffing at the castoffs of the Leinster youth setup.
Yeah, I kind of lean towards this POV. Until we see evidence that the foreign clubs are actually signing the cream of the young talent, I don't see a problem - at least from a system perspective (obvious risks for the kids involved). More talented youngsters get exposure to professional rugby. Those that go this route get great life experience too. If they're good enough they'll get chances to come back into contention. What percentage of kids entering the Leinster academy even progress to a pro contract? 50%? 30%?
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
No one saying it is a good thing but you don't seem to take account the extraordinary year we have had and how it has affected Finances. Plus we have said many times no gaurantee any player is going to make it to top level. Also been said many times they could come back if do well only time is going to tell on these 2 and yet to hear you tell me other backs recently who have not made the academy who have thrived somewhere else?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

CM11 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:32 pm
Kanbei wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:12 pm Connacht v Ulster next month taking place at the Aviva for some reason
Connacht probably have issues with social distancing at the sportsground? One of their cash cows so looking for a big crowd? That said, I thought you had to hit 25k+ in LR before breaking even.
Are they doing a double header with the Leinster game, will they be allowed to fill stadium then?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
DeDoc wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:44 pm
DOB wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:31 pm Another way of looking at this is that our talent development is so good, that top level French clubs are now sniffing at the castoffs of the Leinster youth setup.
Yeah, I kind of lean towards this POV. Until we see evidence that the foreign clubs are actually signing the cream of the young talent, I don't see a problem - at least from a system perspective (obvious risks for the kids involved). More talented youngsters get exposure to professional rugby. Those that go this route get great life experience too. If they're good enough they'll get chances to come back into contention. What percentage of kids entering the Leinster academy even progress to a pro contract? 50%? 30%?
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
Well they could also turn out to be another HOS who is the worst scrumhalf I have seen play for Leinster in my 40 years watching them.
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earl the beaver
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

CM11 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:32 pm
Kanbei wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:12 pm Connacht v Ulster next month taking place at the Aviva for some reason
Connacht probably have issues with social distancing at the sportsground? One of their cash cows so looking for a big crowd? That said, I thought you had to hit 25k+ in LR before breaking even.
News report says that the match is due to be the day after the end of social distancing for sport venues so they could have full capacity
Deco2
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Deco2 »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:47 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:32 pm
Kanbei wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:12 pm Connacht v Ulster next month taking place at the Aviva for some reason
Connacht probably have issues with social distancing at the sportsground? One of their cash cows so looking for a big crowd? That said, I thought you had to hit 25k+ in LR before breaking even.
Are they doing a double header with the Leinster game, will they be allowed to fill stadium then?
The Premier Province is away to Glasgow that weekend.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:46 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
DeDoc wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:44 pm

Yeah, I kind of lean towards this POV. Until we see evidence that the foreign clubs are actually signing the cream of the young talent, I don't see a problem - at least from a system perspective (obvious risks for the kids involved). More talented youngsters get exposure to professional rugby. Those that go this route get great life experience too. If they're good enough they'll get chances to come back into contention. What percentage of kids entering the Leinster academy even progress to a pro contract? 50%? 30%?
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
No one saying it is a good thing but you don't seem to take account the extraordinary year we have had and how it has affected Finances. Plus we have said many times no gaurantee any player is going to make it to top level. Also been said many times they could come back if do well only time is going to tell on these 2 and yet to hear you tell me other backs recently who have not made the academy who have thrived somewhere else?
There are no recent examples of backs who left the province at 18 to sign a 3 year contract abroad, now it's happened twice this year. So there is no comparison in the last 10 years to make.

If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
Last edited by irishrugbyua on Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:49 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
DeDoc wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:44 pm

Yeah, I kind of lean towards this POV. Until we see evidence that the foreign clubs are actually signing the cream of the young talent, I don't see a problem - at least from a system perspective (obvious risks for the kids involved). More talented youngsters get exposure to professional rugby. Those that go this route get great life experience too. If they're good enough they'll get chances to come back into contention. What percentage of kids entering the Leinster academy even progress to a pro contract? 50%? 30%?
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
Well they could also turn out to be another HOS who is the worst scrumhalf I have seen play for Leinster in my 40 years watching them.
HOS and scrumhalf development in leinster is another topic altogether.
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Diabhal
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Diabhal »

Be very interesting to hear what the story is with concessions for the Connacht match. They make serious money in SG off alcos like myself and you'd hope we aren't left with Carlsberg.

These are the big questions which need answering.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Leinster Academy/Sub-Academy(incomplete)

LH Prop
Marcus Hanan(21/Clane RFC/Old Belvedere)
Temi Lasisi(19/Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne)
Jack Boyle(18/St. Michaels/UCD)
--
Ben Popplewell(U20/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne)
Oisin Michel(U20/Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)
George Hadden(U19/Gorey RFC/Clontarf)

TH Prop
--
Mick McCormack(23/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Thomas Connolly(22/DUFC)
Rory McGuire(U20/Blackrock/UCD)

Hooker
John McKee(21/Campbell/Old Belvedere)
Lee Barron(20/St. Michaels/DUFC)
--
Howard Noonan(U20/Greystones RFC/Old Wesley)
Barry Gray(U20/Carlow RFC/Clontarf)

Lock
Charlie Ryan(22/Blackrock/UCD)
Joe McCarthy(20/Blackrock/DUFC)
--
Mark Morrissey(U20/Blackrock/UCD)
Conor O'Tighearnaigh(U20/St Michaels)
Sean Walsh(U20/Seapoint RFC/Lansdowne)
Ruairi Clarke(U20/Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)

Lock-Blindside
Brian Deeny(21/Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
Alex Soroka(20/Belvedere/Clontarf)
--
Paul Deeny(U20/Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
Fionn McWey(U20/Portloaise RFC-Roscrea)
Diarmuid Mangan(U19/Newbridge/UCD)

Backrow
Martin Moloney(21/Athy RFC/Clontarf)
Sean O'Brien(21/Blackrock/UCD)
Mark Hernan(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
--
Donough Lawlor(U20/Newbridge)
Luke Callinan(U20/Castleknock)
Dylan Ryan(U20/St Michaels/DUFC)
Will McDonald(U20/IQ Rugby)
Jonathan Ross(U20/Belvedere)

Scrumhalf
Cormac Foley(21/St. Gerards/Lansdowne)
Ben Murphy(20/Pres Bray/Old Wesley)
--
Conor Duggan(U20/Castleknock/MU Barnhall)
Oisin Devit(U20/Clongowes)
Michael Moloney(U20/Blackrock)
Seanan Devereux(U20/St Marys/St. Marys)

Outhalf
--
Tim Corkery(U21/Kilkenny RFC/UCD)
Charlie Tector(U20/Kilkenny/Lansdowne)
Sam Prendergast(U19/Newbridge)(u19)

Centre
Liam Turner(22/Blackrock/DUFC)
Jamie Osborne(19/Naas RFC/Naas)
--
Fionn Gibbons(U20/Castleknock/UCD)
Conor Gibney(U20/Mullingar RFC)
Ben Brownlee(U20/Blackrock)
Daniel Hawkshaw(U20/Belvedere)
David Dooley(U19/Tullamore RFC/MU Barnhall)

Back Three
Rob Russell(22/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Andrew Smith(21/St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(21/Blackrock/UCD)
Max O'Reilly(21/St. Gerards/DUFC)
Chris Cosgrave(20/St. Michaels/UCD)
--
Dylan O’Grady(U20/Belvedere)
Aitzol King(U20/Balbriggan RFC-CUS/Clontarf)
Callum O’Reilly(U20/St Michaels)
Scott Milne(U20/Tullamore RFC)
Shane Mallon(U20/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD)
Last edited by irishrugbyua on Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Ireland Men’s Sevens Squad (Canada Sevens, Edmonton):

Niall Comerford (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers)
Chris Cosgrave (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Seán Cribbin (Suttonians)
Billy Dardis (Terenure College)
Shane Jennings (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Sean Kearns (Irish Sevens)
Steven Kilgallen (UCD RFC)
Bryan Mollen (Blackrock College)(Captain)
Ben Moxham (Ballymena/Ulster)
Aaron O’Sullivan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Conor Phillips (Young Munster/Munster)
Liam Turner (Dublin University/Leinster)
O'Sullivan still listed as a Leinster player..
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Leinster are hiring someone to replace Denis Leamy: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic-r ... rtunities/

he has replaced Hugh Hogan as a senior coach for contact skills.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:46 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
No one saying it is a good thing but you don't seem to take account the extraordinary year we have had and how it has affected Finances. Plus we have said many times no gaurantee any player is going to make it to top level. Also been said many times they could come back if do well only time is going to tell on these 2 and yet to hear you tell me other backs recently who have not made the academy who have thrived somewhere else?
There are no recent examples of backs who left the province at 18 to sign a 3 year contract abroad, now it's happened twice this year. So there is no comparison in the last 10 years to make.

If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
I would be very surprised if a lad who went to Newbridge can't afford to train and play in the sub academy to earn an academy spot. Is he not going to get a degree? The lad has given up the chance to play for Ireland under 20s as well.
Andrew Smith was a star in the SCT and he is struggling at Senior level so not whining about some lad who is unproven. For example I would be whining if we lose Furlong who only signed for a year because we didn't have enough cash.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:44 pm
Ireland Men’s Sevens Squad (Canada Sevens, Edmonton):

Niall Comerford (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers)
Chris Cosgrave (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Seán Cribbin (Suttonians)
Billy Dardis (Terenure College)
Shane Jennings (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Sean Kearns (Irish Sevens)
Steven Kilgallen (UCD RFC)
Bryan Mollen (Blackrock College)(Captain)
Ben Moxham (Ballymena/Ulster)
Aaron O’Sullivan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Conor Phillips (Young Munster/Munster)
Liam Turner (Dublin University/Leinster)
O'Sullivan still listed as a Leinster player..
Billy Dardis was another star at schools level who didn't make it at senior level.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:46 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
No one saying it is a good thing but you don't seem to take account the extraordinary year we have had and how it has affected Finances. Plus we have said many times no gaurantee any player is going to make it to top level. Also been said many times they could come back if do well only time is going to tell on these 2 and yet to hear you tell me other backs recently who have not made the academy who have thrived somewhere else?
There are no recent examples of backs who left the province at 18 to sign a 3 year contract abroad, now it's happened twice this year. So there is no comparison in the last 10 years to make.

If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
Asked someone who is involved in schools rugby and has seen him play lots of times all the way through school. His reponse he promising but wouldn't be getting too upset losing him.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:49 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
hermie wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 am
Probably 50% at least anyway. If you go back to 2018 you had Baird, Penny, Byrne jr, Milne and Dunne all on professional contracts. Hawkshaw came in halfway through that season and also has a pro contract by now. Of the others Sylvester is still knocking about, Patterson is with Munster and only Aaron O'Sullivan is lost to the mists of time. Now that's probably a bumper crop but go back a year further and it's a similar story. Mullin is with the 7s but the rest got pro deals either with Leinster or Connacht.
So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
Well they could also turn out to be another HOS who is the worst scrumhalf I have seen play for Leinster in my 40 years watching them.
HOS and scrumhalf development in leinster is another topic altogether.
Never mind Leinster not developing his pass, the lad had zero attributes to be a pro rugby player, no break, no real pace, not good under high ball even though was a fullback, tiny. He has also gone to England which does make you wonder ;)
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:48 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:49 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:18 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am

So you are basically saying if someone does well they will get bumped up quickly :P
Looks like the IRFU have changed their tact with regard to 7's and are sending out academy lads to get experience on the international 7's circuit. Think this is great and get them much needed gametime and help with some of their fundamentals. Obviously this will only really benefit mainly backs.
The point is is that they are losing players who would have gotten academy contracts if they stuck around.

Not sure how that can be spun as a good thing as it has weakened the talent level in the academy going forward.

Is it a coincedence that both players are outside backs? I dunno.
Well they could also turn out to be another HOS who is the worst scrumhalf I have seen play for Leinster in my 40 years watching them.
HOS and scrumhalf development in leinster is another topic altogether.
Never mind Leinster not developing his pass, the lad had zero attributes to be a pro rugby player, no break, no real pace, not good under high ball even though was a fullback, tiny. He has also gone to England which does make you wonder ;)
He also got an academy contract out of school and a 2 year dev deal from leinster. So someone rated him.

But as I said leinsters inability to develop scrumhalves is another topic altogether.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:42 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
Asked someone who is involved in schools rugby and has seen him play lots of times all the way through school. His reponse he promising but wouldn't be getting too upset losing him.
Having seen nothing of the player myself, this is definitely the impression I'm getting off all this.

When Munster offered Luke Fitz terms straight out of school, Leinster gave him a full contract. If Leinster rated Ireland underage player Berti Newman as highly as IRUA seems to, they would have done the necessary to keep him in Ireland. And it's no use saying "if he'd played the final," as I'd hope the Leinster branch wouldn't base employment terms for a player based on a single game.

Besides which, who's to say they didn't make a counter offer? Bristol are offering a 3 year pro contract being coached by Pat Lam; that's a pretty generous deal for Leinster to even try and match.

At the end of the 3 years, Berti Newman still won't be England-eligible (unless he already is) and will have 3 years of experience playing in the Prem. If he's good enough, Leinster can try and entice him back then. Or even at a later date.
irishrugbyua
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

DOB wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:58 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:42 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
Asked someone who is involved in schools rugby and has seen him play lots of times all the way through school. His reponse he promising but wouldn't be getting too upset losing him.
Having seen nothing of the player myself, this is definitely the impression I'm getting off all this.

When Munster offered Luke Fitz terms straight out of school, Leinster gave him a full contract. If Leinster rated Ireland underage player Berti Newman as highly as IRUA seems to, they would have done the necessary to keep him in Ireland. And it's no use saying "if he'd played the final," as I'd hope the Leinster branch wouldn't base employment terms for a player based on a single game.

Besides which, who's to say they didn't make a counter offer? Bristol are offering a 3 year pro contract being coached by Pat Lam; that's a pretty generous deal for Leinster to even try and match.

At the end of the 3 years, Berti Newman still won't be England-eligible (unless he already is) and will have 3 years of experience playing in the Prem. If he's good enough, Leinster can try and entice him back then. Or even at a later date.
it wasn't just the final, it was the final and another full SCT season lost to covid. I don't think a comparison to how leinster dealt with Luke Fitz is a fair comparison, leinster deal with players differently 15 years later and Newman lost out on a season of SCT due to covid.

Brendan Fanning seems to have good insight into what happened:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 64247.html
For the most intriguing news from Leinster, you have to drill down below Academy level, where they failed to secure the services of Lucas Berti Newman, a star in the Newbridge College side before Covid hit. This kid is an outrageous midfield talent who would have loved a spot in the Leinster Academy. Nothing doing. Pat Lam signed him last week on a three-year deal with Bristol.
He is not the only person to hype up Newman, i've seen Jackman call him an excellent player. Anyway I'm happy to leave this topic where it is, we will see how he develops over in Bristol and we will see if he and Martin are just once offs or the beginning of a trend of leinsters top underage players being poached from abroad before their u20 season.
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Luckycharmer
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:03 pm
DOB wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:58 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:42 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
Asked someone who is involved in schools rugby and has seen him play lots of times all the way through school. His reponse he promising but wouldn't be getting too upset losing him.
Having seen nothing of the player myself, this is definitely the impression I'm getting off all this.

When Munster offered Luke Fitz terms straight out of school, Leinster gave him a full contract. If Leinster rated Ireland underage player Berti Newman as highly as IRUA seems to, they would have done the necessary to keep him in Ireland. And it's no use saying "if he'd played the final," as I'd hope the Leinster branch wouldn't base employment terms for a player based on a single game.

Besides which, who's to say they didn't make a counter offer? Bristol are offering a 3 year pro contract being coached by Pat Lam; that's a pretty generous deal for Leinster to even try and match.

At the end of the 3 years, Berti Newman still won't be England-eligible (unless he already is) and will have 3 years of experience playing in the Prem. If he's good enough, Leinster can try and entice him back then. Or even at a later date.
it wasn't just the final, it was the final and another full SCT season lost to covid. I don't think a comparison to how leinster dealt with Luke Fitz is a fair comparison, leinster deal with players differently 15 years later and Newman losing out on a season of SCT due to covid.

Brendan Fanning seems to have good insight into what happened:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 64247.html
For the most intriguing news from Leinster, you have to drill down below Academy level, where they failed to secure the services of Lucas Berti Newman, a star in the Newbridge College side before Covid hit. This kid is an outrageous midfield talent who would have loved a spot in the Leinster Academy. Nothing doing. Pat Lam signed him last week on a three-year deal with Bristol.
He is not the only person to hype up Newman, i've seen Jackman call him an excellent player. Anyway I'm happy to leave this topic where it is, we will see how he develops over in Bristol and we will see if he and Martin are just once offs or the beginning of a trend of leinster players being poached from abroad before their u20 season.
Got more info, said good enough baller but not very big very similar to JOB/Turner/Hawksaw. Didn't you complain a while back that Leinster didn't produce enough big backs and now you want us to sign another one??? Make up your mind, he sounds like a very similar player to what we already have.
If he had all of those attributes and was Osbornes size than I would be more upset.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:22 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:03 pm
DOB wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:58 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:42 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm If the SCT had went ahead in 2020, Berti Newman would have been the star player of the cup and leinster have lost this player to bristol due to an unwillingness to extend a contract offer worth 8k a year.

This is either the beginning of a trend where leinster will fail to keep some of its top talents in the province due to poaching from abroad and an unwillingness to factor in some players can't afford to train and play for free in the sub-academy for a year or it's a momentary blip due to covid, we shall wait and see.
Asked someone who is involved in schools rugby and has seen him play lots of times all the way through school. His reponse he promising but wouldn't be getting too upset losing him.
Having seen nothing of the player myself, this is definitely the impression I'm getting off all this.

When Munster offered Luke Fitz terms straight out of school, Leinster gave him a full contract. If Leinster rated Ireland underage player Berti Newman as highly as IRUA seems to, they would have done the necessary to keep him in Ireland. And it's no use saying "if he'd played the final," as I'd hope the Leinster branch wouldn't base employment terms for a player based on a single game.

Besides which, who's to say they didn't make a counter offer? Bristol are offering a 3 year pro contract being coached by Pat Lam; that's a pretty generous deal for Leinster to even try and match.

At the end of the 3 years, Berti Newman still won't be England-eligible (unless he already is) and will have 3 years of experience playing in the Prem. If he's good enough, Leinster can try and entice him back then. Or even at a later date.
it wasn't just the final, it was the final and another full SCT season lost to covid. I don't think a comparison to how leinster dealt with Luke Fitz is a fair comparison, leinster deal with players differently 15 years later and Newman losing out on a season of SCT due to covid.

Brendan Fanning seems to have good insight into what happened:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 64247.html
For the most intriguing news from Leinster, you have to drill down below Academy level, where they failed to secure the services of Lucas Berti Newman, a star in the Newbridge College side before Covid hit. This kid is an outrageous midfield talent who would have loved a spot in the Leinster Academy. Nothing doing. Pat Lam signed him last week on a three-year deal with Bristol.
He is not the only person to hype up Newman, i've seen Jackman call him an excellent player. Anyway I'm happy to leave this topic where it is, we will see how he develops over in Bristol and we will see if he and Martin are just once offs or the beginning of a trend of leinster players being poached from abroad before their u20 season.
Got more info, said good enough baller but not very big very similar to JOB/Turner/Hawksaw. Didn't you complain a while back that Leinster didn't produce enough big backs and now you want us to sign another one??? Make up your mind, he sounds like a very similar player to what we already have.
If he had all of those attributes and was Osbornes size than I would be more upset.
I want leinster to retain it's best underage players, it's not doing that losing either Berti Newman or Karl Martin.

You seem convinced he isn't good enough for Leinster, so we shall wait and see how he gets on in Bristol.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Brendan Fanning on David Hawkshaw " Talent to Burn and attitude to match" - yep very unlike our rugby correspondents to overhype a young lad.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:03 pm it wasn't just the final, it was the final and another full SCT season lost to covid. I don't think a comparison to how leinster dealt with Luke Fitz is a fair comparison, leinster deal with players differently 15 years later and Newman lost out on a season of SCT due to covid.

Brendan Fanning seems to have good insight into what happened:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 64247.html
For the most intriguing news from Leinster, you have to drill down below Academy level, where they failed to secure the services of Lucas Berti Newman, a star in the Newbridge College side before Covid hit. This kid is an outrageous midfield talent who would have loved a spot in the Leinster Academy. Nothing doing. Pat Lam signed him last week on a three-year deal with Bristol.
He is not the only person to hype up Newman, i've seen Jackman call him an excellent player. Anyway I'm happy to leave this topic where it is, we will see how he develops over in Bristol and we will see if he and Martin are just once offs or the beginning of a trend of leinsters top underage players being poached from abroad before their u20 season.
I bring Luke Fitz up because if LBN was on that level, I very much doubt he would be let leave.

If Lucky is right, and he's a handy medium-size player, then I can't see any reason to break protocol for him.

He could be a new Ringrose, in which case I hope Leinster will review their processes and make sure the next one doesn't slip through. Or he could be the new Brendan Macken, in which case good luck to him in Bristol, and I hope he gets a long career out of it.

And Birch isn't exactly neutral when if comes to players from Newbridge...
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:34 pm Brendan Fanning on David Hawkshaw " Talent to Burn and attitude to match" - yep very unlike our rugby correspondents to overhype a young lad.
Look I get it, you think if he was any good he'd have gotten a leinster contract straight out of school. He didn't so he is no loss to leinster rugby. We will see how he gets on in Bristol.
Last edited by irishrugbyua on Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:33 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:22 pm
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:03 pm
DOB wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:58 pm
Luckycharmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:42 pm

Asked someone who is involved in schools rugby and has seen him play lots of times all the way through school. His reponse he promising but wouldn't be getting too upset losing him.
Having seen nothing of the player myself, this is definitely the impression I'm getting off all this.

When Munster offered Luke Fitz terms straight out of school, Leinster gave him a full contract. If Leinster rated Ireland underage player Berti Newman as highly as IRUA seems to, they would have done the necessary to keep him in Ireland. And it's no use saying "if he'd played the final," as I'd hope the Leinster branch wouldn't base employment terms for a player based on a single game.

Besides which, who's to say they didn't make a counter offer? Bristol are offering a 3 year pro contract being coached by Pat Lam; that's a pretty generous deal for Leinster to even try and match.

At the end of the 3 years, Berti Newman still won't be England-eligible (unless he already is) and will have 3 years of experience playing in the Prem. If he's good enough, Leinster can try and entice him back then. Or even at a later date.
it wasn't just the final, it was the final and another full SCT season lost to covid. I don't think a comparison to how leinster dealt with Luke Fitz is a fair comparison, leinster deal with players differently 15 years later and Newman losing out on a season of SCT due to covid.

Brendan Fanning seems to have good insight into what happened:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 64247.html
For the most intriguing news from Leinster, you have to drill down below Academy level, where they failed to secure the services of Lucas Berti Newman, a star in the Newbridge College side before Covid hit. This kid is an outrageous midfield talent who would have loved a spot in the Leinster Academy. Nothing doing. Pat Lam signed him last week on a three-year deal with Bristol.
He is not the only person to hype up Newman, i've seen Jackman call him an excellent player. Anyway I'm happy to leave this topic where it is, we will see how he develops over in Bristol and we will see if he and Martin are just once offs or the beginning of a trend of leinster players being poached from abroad before their u20 season.
Got more info, said good enough baller but not very big very similar to JOB/Turner/Hawksaw. Didn't you complain a while back that Leinster didn't produce enough big backs and now you want us to sign another one??? Make up your mind, he sounds like a very similar player to what we already have.
If he had all of those attributes and was Osbornes size than I would be more upset.
I want leinster to retain it's best underage players, it's not doing that losing either Berti Newman or Karl Martin.

You seem convinced he isn't good enough for Leinster, so we shall wait and see how he gets on in Bristol.
I want leinster to sign Difference makers the VERY TOP talent someone who could be fast tracked into the Senior team like an Osborne (possible future internationals). From I hear this guy sounds very similar to lads we already have who might make a decent pro but not much more than that.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

some not so great shite talk here on URC: https://www.the42.ie/roc-nation-rugby-5553405-Sep2021/
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Andrew Porter practising binding on the loosehead side in this: https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/statu ... 32808?s=19

no sign of healy at tight.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Conspicuous »

Las Vegas match v US looks set to be axed due to travel restrictions

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4681152
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

Conspicuous wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:10 am Las Vegas match v US looks set to be axed due to travel restrictions

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4681152
it was a ridiculous idea to begin with.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

Henderson interview on BBC tonight where he says Gatland got it wrong and selected on reputation and past form.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

earl the beaver wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:37 am Henderson interview on BBC tonight where he says Gatland got it wrong and selected on reputation and past form.
Gatland definetly got the gameplan wrong, trying to outbosh the the Boks. OZ have shown you need to play rugby to beat them.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

LC and DOB on the same side of the argument but totally contradicting each other. One says if Berti Newman was a Luke Fitz-genuine talent he'd have been kept, the other that a schools star means nothing because Macken, Dardis etc (I wouldn't be so quick to lump Hawkshaw in with them either. He's on a pro deal at quite a young age even though Leinster don't need 10s and he's a very small 12. That speaks a lot to not only his raw talent but his application imo).

But all that leaves out the guys who were maybe good schools players, went on to be very good underage players and then excellent pros - Keenan, Ringrose, Sexton, O'Driscoll. You just don't know what you are passing on, especially before u20 level. It's a shame we won't see these lads play 20s for Ireland. I know you like to think everyone a Leinster really knows what they're doing but I think letting the two best centre prospects go when it's hardly an area of depth is a bit of a balls up.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Hendo not being involved at all after an excellent six nations was odd tbf.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by hermie »

irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:48 pm Leinster are hiring someone to replace Denis Leamy: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic-r ... rtunities/

he has replaced Hugh Hogan as a senior coach for contact skills.
Great to hear Leamy is stepping up. Was worried they wouldn't replace Hogan.

Hopefully a couple of development officer recruits sorts these issues at with leaking underage players.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

hermie wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:01 am
irishrugbyua wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:48 pm Leinster are hiring someone to replace Denis Leamy: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic-r ... rtunities/

he has replaced Hugh Hogan as a senior coach for contact skills.
Great to hear Leamy is stepping up. Was worried they wouldn't replace Hogan.

Hopefully a couple of development officer recruits sorts these issues at with leaking underage players.
Suppose it's upto whoever takes over the academy.. no word on that yet, but I can't see them doing a u-turn on their insistence that players commit to the sub-academy before moving up, which could mean this trend continues.
Last edited by irishrugbyua on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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CM11 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:51 am Hendo not being involved at all after an excellent six nations was odd tbf.
A little odd but competing against Itoje and the captain was always going to be tough. Lawes was also one of the better performing players on tour. It's tough for Hendo but hopefully, no less than Ryan, he can channel that frustration into a great season with Ireland. At least they won't be overly fatigued.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

hermie wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:04 am
CM11 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:51 am Hendo not being involved at all after an excellent six nations was odd tbf.
A little odd but competing against Itoje and the captain was always going to be tough. Lawes was also one of the better performing players on tour. It's tough for Hendo but hopefully, no less than Ryan, he can channel that frustration into a great season with Ireland. At least they won't be overly fatigued.
I think there was room to rotate him in to the side. Gatland messed up the second test selection. Should have replaced more of the pack and had his first choice pack fresher for the third test.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Anyway, anyone know if bars are open for the Leinster game?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by irishrugbyua »

CM11 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:07 am Anyway, anyone know if bars are open for the Leinster game?
Don't believe they will be.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

irishrugbyua wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:08 am
CM11 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:07 am Anyway, anyone know if bars are open for the Leinster game?
Don't believe they will be.
:((
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