Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

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Pakia Pakia
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Pakia Pakia »

not_english wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:53 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
not_english wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:51 am NZ did pretty well against the saffas at the RWC, which makes me a little mystified as to how it all went so very wrong against England (obviously team selection is part of the story).
Quite simple. We were a very inconsistent side at that time.

Our forward pack was in decline and we put in Retallick who wasn’t anywhere near his best due to being rushed back from injury.

We struggled to have consistently high standards across a number of test in a short timeframe.

The Australian results are an example of this.

We invested too much emotional energy in the qtr final against a team who has never got passed a qtr final. And struggled to back it up.

A bit like England in the semi and final.

SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Yes, it's a difficult balance. You could argue we got knocked out in the quarters in 2007, because we didn't invest enough in that game and were looking ahead to the semis.

I don't mind us losing really, all the top teams were quite close, it's just the forward pack really fronted up against the saffas, and got absolutely blown away by England.
The forward pack had been flakey for the last few years prior to this but looks to have developed a harder edge this year with some fresh blood in the mix.
Last edited by Pakia Pakia on Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pole
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Pole »

booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Still on about an easy run.. give it a break
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mr bungle
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by mr bungle »

Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:52 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Still on about an easy run.. give it a break
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Mr Mike
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Mr Mike »

not_english wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:53 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
not_english wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:51 am NZ did pretty well against the saffas at the RWC, which makes me a little mystified as to how it all went so very wrong against England (obviously team selection is part of the story).
Quite simple. We were a very inconsistent side at that time.

Our forward pack was in decline and we put in Retallick who wasn’t anywhere near his best due to being rushed back from injury.

We struggled to have consistently high standards across a number of test in a short timeframe.

The Australian results are an example of this.

We invested too much emotional energy in the qtr final against a team who has never got passed a qtr final. And struggled to back it up.

A bit like England in the semi and final.

SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Yes, it's a difficult balance. You could argue we got knocked out in the quarters in 2007, because we didn't invest enough in that game and were looking ahead to the semis.
and 2007 was a deliberate reaction to 2003 where the learning had been that NZ invested too much in the QF against SA, thrashing them by 20 (IIRC). The harsh truth is that everyone struggles to play 3 big teams in a row. In 2019 England had the most difficult run, and benefited greatly from having the game against France washed out, but by the final they were well spent.

In 2023, the loser of the NZ v France game is likely to have SA in the QF. That’s looking like a lovely run.
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Pole
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Pole »

mr bungle wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:57 am
Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:52 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Still on about an easy run.. give it a break
Namibia
Italy
Canada
Japan
Wales

Japan = Best in their Pool also beating Ireland and Scotland
Wales = Best in their Pool beating Australia
England = Best in their Pool and beat the Kiwis

So you saying these countries did not belong in the Quarters, Semis, and Finals?
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by OomStruisbaai »

Foster should make an hour long video and sent it to WR about all the vokking easy runs the Springboks get at the WC.
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Mr Mike
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Mr Mike »

In Tulsa for a couple of days and my superstitious side doesn’t like the view from the hotel

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Toro
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Toro »

Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:27 pm
mr bungle wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:57 am
Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:52 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Still on about an easy run.. give it a break
Namibia
Italy
Canada
Japan
Wales

Japan = Best in their Pool also beating Ireland and Scotland
Wales = Best in their Pool beating Australia
England = Best in their Pool and beat the Kiwis

So you saying these countries did not belong in the Quarters, Semis, and Finals?
Japan you would expect to beat no matter what pool they topped, but I dare say they were more competitive than Ireland was in our game. Wales definitely weren't easy beats and that game was in the balance. We didn't have a particularly hard run till we met England. RWC are so merciless when it comes to getting your tactics wrong or just not being as up for it on the day, bounce of the ball and all that.
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Mr Mike
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Mr Mike »

Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:27 pm
mr bungle wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:57 am
Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:52 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Still on about an easy run.. give it a break
Namibia
Italy
Canada
Japan
Wales

Japan = Best in their Pool also beating Ireland and Scotland
Wales = Best in their Pool beating Australia
England = Best in their Pool and beat the Kiwis

So you saying these countries did not belong in the Quarters, Semis, and Finals?
I don’t get the Bok fan defensiveness over this. Minor brush with legendary status, I was seated next to Morné du Plessis on the way into Paris in 2007 for the RWC Final. He was absolutely delighted to avoid NZ and Australia. As someone who has been there as a manager, he appreciated more than most that it is a knockout tournament and if you can avoid big teams, that just terrific. As the saying goes, better to be lucky than good*.

On a tangent, I know I am not telling SA fans anything, but what an impressive individual du Plessis is. Absolute gent and very happy to chat. One time meeting your heroes wasn’t a bad thing.

* important also to appreciate the implied meaning of the saying.
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Grandpa
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Grandpa »

Mr Mike wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:40 pm In Tulsa for a couple of days and my superstitious side doesn’t like the view from the hotel

Image
Just make sure you go around it.. don't try and go through it...
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Jensrsa »

I see Victor Matfield had to apologise for saying that he "doesn't think Damian Willemse is a great rugby player" after the last test. Apparently SARU's deal with DSTv is that the commentators won't criticise the players, the Boks or SARU

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/matfield-i-got-it-wrong/
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Skiaddict »

Mr Mike wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:40 pm In Tulsa for a couple of days and my superstitious side doesn’t like the view from the hotel

Image
I get it. Everytime I go to my fathers hometown, it's this....Bok Tower

Image
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mr bungle
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by mr bungle »

Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:27 pm
mr bungle wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:57 am
Pole wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:52 am
booze wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:43 am
SA on the other hand, had a very easy run against sides they would expect to beat quite easily
Still on about an easy run.. give it a break
Namibia
Italy
Canada
Japan
Wales

Japan = Best in their Pool also beating Ireland and Scotland
Wales = Best in their Pool beating Australia
England = Best in their Pool and beat the Kiwis

So you saying these countries did not belong in the Quarters, Semis, and Finals?
I’m saying fans and pundits place far too much importance on RWCs. They’re a nice to have in the trophy cabinet, but often have a run of games that are basically a foregone conclusion.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Nz have been tormented by the RWC.

2011 win and for me the prevailing emotion was relief.

Anyway - game day, should be a cracker.

ABs by 1-3.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Jensrsa »

Apart from three of the four tests in the AC years the AB vs Bok tests have been one score games in recent years
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Fat Old Git »

I'm probably going to end up watching this tomorrow now. I have a very nice Oktoberfest party to go to today. Lots of fun, but probably no rugby on.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by merlin the happy pig »

Fat Old Git wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:31 pm I'm probably going to end up watching this tomorrow now. I have a very nice Oktoberfest party to go to today. Lots of fun, but probably no rugby on.
No sky, and level 3 so no place to watch it, will have to wait for replay on prime tomorrow.
Probably a good thing, will force me to do work around the house to avoid seeing the result. 😅
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by obelixtim »

merlin the happy pig wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:32 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:31 pm I'm probably going to end up watching this tomorrow now. I have a very nice Oktoberfest party to go to today. Lots of fun, but probably no rugby on.
No sky, and level 3 so no place to watch it, will have to wait for replay on prime tomorrow.
Probably a good thing, will force me to do work around the house to avoid seeing the result. 😅
Watch it online. Easy.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Fat Old Git »

If I drink enough beer and eat enough pork products I might be able to sleep in long enough to be able to avoid the result. Although prime aren't playing it until 3pm so maybe not. Even with daylight savings pushing the clocks forward an hour.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by mr bungle »

Sky don’t have a full replay until 6:30pm for some reason. Lame.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Davedj77 »

mr bungle wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:07 am Sky don’t have a full replay until 6:30pm for some reason. Lame.
That really fucks me off about SKY. Surely around 7/8am is a perfect time for a replay. Where's the consideration for people that cant watch at the time? I guess they expect you to have MySKY or whatever.
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mr bungle
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by mr bungle »

Davedj77 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:01 am
mr bungle wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:07 am Sky don’t have a full replay until 6:30pm for some reason. Lame.
That really fucks me off about SKY. Surely around 7/8am is a perfect time for a replay. Where's the consideration for people that cant watch at the time? I guess they expect you to have MySKY or whatever.
There’s a 7s tourney from Vancouver or some such up until lunch, but they have countless channels to get an early morning replay on.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by BBB »

Jacobson out with a stomach bug.

Ardie moves to 8,Blackadder off the bench to 7 and Sotutu to the bench.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by naki »

BBB wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:15 am Jacobson out with a stomach bug.
👩‍🍳
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Auckman »

Hmmm Blackadder is really a 6. Ardie should remain at 7, Blackadder remain on the bench and bring Sotutu to 8.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by trapper »

Auckman wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:38 am Hmmm Blackadder is really a 6. Ardie should remain at 7, Blackadder remain on the bench and bring Sotutu to 8.
Yep, although Blackadder adds a degree of mongrel that Hoskins is lacking.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Davedj77 »

BBB wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:15 am Jacobson out with a stomach bug.

Ardie moves to 8,Blackadder off the bench to 7 and Sotutu to the bench.
Shite! I was only just saying to a mate that I love Jacobson except for his injury woes...this isn't an injury but same kinda diff. The dude cant catch a break damnit.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by merlin the happy pig »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:25 am Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
I'd be happy with Ioane at 8, Bladder at 6, and Savea at 7
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Fat Old Git »

Right, off to drink beer and eat enough German inspired food to feed a small army. Enjoy the game everyone. As usual, here's hoping for a cracker with no controversy or injuries.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by trapper »

merlin the happy pig wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:28 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:25 am Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
I'd be happy with Ioane at 8, Bladder at 6, and Savea at 7
Players playing in their natural position? Could work.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by les@mooloolaba »

BBB wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:15 am Jacobson out with a stomach bug.

Ardie moves to 8,Blackadder off the bench to 7 and Sotutu to the bench.
This is still a good backrow and I really rate Blackadder and this will be a good experience for him, especially as the N0.7 role is evolving, just hope he reigns in his penchanrt for giving away sillyt penalties.

I also have to concede that Akira is now a deserved AB, given the way he has been playing this test season, maybe Fozzie does have some sort of skill there as McDonald wasn't able to motivate him for SR. Given the size of the Bok pack I expect the AB's will want to move them around so have Savea at 8 is not a big deal. Maybe Akira would have been better there with Ardie at 7?

cant wait.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by kiwigreg369 »

trapper wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:32 am
merlin the happy pig wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:28 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:25 am Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
I'd be happy with Ioane at 8, Bladder at 6, and Savea at 7
Players playing in their natural position? Could work.
Apart from the fact that Akira played Ardie 8 and Blackadder mainly 6 but sometimes 7.

Two years ago yes - but Akira is just starting to look good at 6. And HS looked good last week at 8.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Ted. »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:25 am Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
Yep. Or Akira to 8 with Blackadder to 6. Oh well.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Ted. »

trapper wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:32 am
merlin the happy pig wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:28 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:25 am Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
I'd be happy with Ioane at 8, Bladder at 6, and Savea at 7
Players playing in their natural position? Could work.
:nod:

and snap!
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Pakia Pakia
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Pakia Pakia »

I thought Savea and Blackadder played very well last week as a combination on the flanks. They both played a similar role as duel 6.5s.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Sards »

Jensrsa wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:05 pm I see Victor Matfield had to apologise for saying that he "doesn't think Damian Willemse is a great rugby player" after the last test. Apparently SARU's deal with DSTv is that the commentators won't criticise the players, the Boks or SARU

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/matfield-i-got-it-wrong/
I wonder what it must feel like to be forced to publicly backtrack on your opinion because the player is of colour and not allowed to be criticized. That is the reality of the quota system. Ironically. There are loads of mch more skilled players of colour that could be there in his place....
But as a man....Matfield must have a very bitter taste in his mouth.
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Kiwias »

Ted. wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:04 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:25 am Bugger. Would rather see HS straight in at 8.
Yep. Or Akira to 8 with Blackadder to 6. Oh well.
That would have been my call. We’ll see in a wee while
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Sards »

Knowing that the ABs will not pull the foot off the throttle is my biggest concern today...if they are pumping the boks from the start..thats how they will finish it.. .

It could get ugly...

We live in hope that it will be a close and competitive affair
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Kiwias
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Re: Rugby Championship: All Blacks vs Springboks: MATCH THREAD: Sat 25th Sept

Post by Kiwias »

Sards wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:35 am Knowing that the ABs will not pull the foot off the throttle is my biggest concern today...if they are pumping the boks from the start..thats how they will finish it.. .

It could get ugly...

We live in hope that it will be a close and competitive affair
I reckon it will be pretty close.
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