Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by Grandpa »

booji boy wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:15 am
Grandpa wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:29 pm
booji boy wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:54 am
Grandpa wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:30 am
Lacrobat wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:29 pm Obsessed with Everest? Click on this link, thank me later:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-02/ ... t/11162770
Thanking you two years later!

Into Thin Air was a great read... a good watch about the 1996 disaster is this documentary...

Storm Over Everest, also known as Remnants of Everest: The 1996 Tragedy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRj74eXSTk0
Thanks. That was an excellent video account of the tragedy. Interesting that John Krakauer never features in any of these documentaries. He gets all the acclaim for his book Into Thin Air but you never see him interviewed in these productions which is pretty telling considering he was part of Rob Hall's team.
I agree. His view of the Russian guide as a bit of a maverick who kept disappearing, conflicts with other accounts that the Russian guide was a hero who actually knew what he was doing.

It was interesting seeing the climbers in that documentary talking about events from a personal viewpoint... I read the book first so easily recognised them when they spoke... but the feeling you get from them on the doco, is that Everest is like a spiritual awakening... more powerful than they imagined, and the pull to climb it even when the brain is foggy from altitude must be incredibly strong... despite the dangers...
Yeah it's a weird but alluring challenge to conquer the highest peak in the world and you can understand their drive and motivation. But those that drove themselves on to make the summit like Doug Hansen perished vs those that turned around when only 300m from the summit knowing they could have made it to the summit but wouldn't have had anything left in the tank for the descent. It's a judgement call that only you can make but in that situation they were way past the 1pm turn around time and someone else, i.e. the tour guide, should have made that call for them.

They broke their own rules and paid the ultimate price.

I've done a lot of tramping/hiking and have been in the mountains in miserable conditions but never mountain climbed. I've skied a lot in miserable white out conditions and that's the nearest I can come to imagining the sheer horror of the situation they were in.

I think if I was as exhausted as they were, lost on the mountain I'd almost be inclined to take the easy way out and go to sleep. :((
That dilemma for Rob Hall. Doug Hansen just refused to turn around... so Rob either left him to summit alone and return alone or stayed with him knowing they may both die.... maybe if the storm hadn't of hit they may have survived, but still... how many of us would have left Doug Hansen to it? We'd probably all say we could of left him, but once there.. I wonder how difficult a decision it would be...

I can't remember as a while now since I read the book, but did the storm arrive earlier than predicted?
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:29 pm
booji boy wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:54 am

Thanks. That was an excellent video account of the tragedy. Interesting that John Krakauer never features in any of these documentaries. He gets all the acclaim for his book Into Thin Air but you never see him interviewed in these productions which is pretty telling considering he was part of Rob Hall's team.
I agree. His view of the Russian guide as a bit of a maverick who kept disappearing, conflicts with other accounts that the Russian guide was a hero who actually knew what he was doing.

It was interesting seeing the climbers in that documentary talking about events from a personal viewpoint... I read the book first so easily recognised them when they spoke... but the feeling you get from them on the doco, is that Everest is like a spiritual awakening... more powerful than they imagined, and the pull to climb it even when the brain is foggy from altitude must be incredibly strong... despite the dangers...
Krakauer, despite being a dedicated outdoors man, was one of those people who really shouldn't have been on that mountain. No high altitude experience - he was there to be guided to the top and back down again, with all the required hand holding necessary in those circumstances (and he would have been one of the more experienced clients). His view is therefore written very much from that perspective, and from that perspective, yes Boukhreev can be seen as somewhat derelict in his duties (until of course the shit hit the fan).

Boukhreevs own perspective, and that of the majority of the climbing community, is that a guide's job is to pass on their experience and advice to climbers that have not been on THAT mountain before - in the same way that a club pro might pass on their advice about their course to a scratch golfer playing there for the first time. It is not to teach them how to put one foot in front of the other (or teach them how to putt in my analogy).

Of course he knew it was also his job to kick into gear if the shit hit the fan which is exactly what he did do, and wouldn't have been able to do if he had been babysitting clients on their way up and down (even still he had spent a about 90 mins at or near the summit helping clients to finish their summit push and get turned around for descending, before doing so himself).

It should also be noted that the Mountain Madness team had fewer clients that could be described as requiring that hand holding - with a number of experienced 8000m climbers and others that were accomplished mountaineers in their own right, if not quite in the Himalayas.

The perspective of the two teams, and thus their guides, was quite different.

My first introduction into the events of that night came in Joe Simpson's Dark Shadows Falling, which is pretty much all about that debate around the ethics of guiding. Simpson was on Pumori when the storm hit and watched/heard/imagined all that unfolded over those few nights.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:44 pm That dilemma for Rob Hall. Doug Hansen just refused to turn around... so Rob either left him to summit alone and return alone or stayed with him knowing they may both die.... maybe if the storm hadn't of hit they may have survived, but still... how many of us would have left Doug Hansen to it? We'd probably all say we could of left him, but once there.. I wonder how difficult a decision it would be...

I can't remember as a while now since I read the book, but did the storm arrive earlier than predicted?
I'm not sure Rob Hall tried to turn him around. Remember he'd turned him around the previous year within sight of the summit. He really wanted him to get to the top to achieve his goal. And for Rob Hall the more clients that successfully summit the better for business. The other climbers that decided to go back made that decision themselves. They weren't sent down despite it being late in the day way past the turn around time.

I think Rob Hall wanted Doug Hansen to successfully summit and was happy to stay with him to assist. Trouble is I think Hansen was absolutely exhausted and collapsed almost immediately at the start of the descent. It was at that point that Rob Hall wouldn't leave him and it cost them both their lives as well as Andy Harris who climbed back up to assist.

As for the storm I don't think it was necessarily predicted. The main problem was that the expedition was way behind schedule and when the storm did hit they were all caught out in the open. If the expedition had been on time they should have all been back at Camp 4 tucked up in their tents.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by booji boy »

PornDog wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:54 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:29 pm
booji boy wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:54 am

Thanks. That was an excellent video account of the tragedy. Interesting that John Krakauer never features in any of these documentaries. He gets all the acclaim for his book Into Thin Air but you never see him interviewed in these productions which is pretty telling considering he was part of Rob Hall's team.
I agree. His view of the Russian guide as a bit of a maverick who kept disappearing, conflicts with other accounts that the Russian guide was a hero who actually knew what he was doing.

It was interesting seeing the climbers in that documentary talking about events from a personal viewpoint... I read the book first so easily recognised them when they spoke... but the feeling you get from them on the doco, is that Everest is like a spiritual awakening... more powerful than they imagined, and the pull to climb it even when the brain is foggy from altitude must be incredibly strong... despite the dangers...
Krakauer, despite being a dedicated outdoors man, was one of those people who really shouldn't have been on that mountain. No high altitude experience - he was there to be guided to the top and back down again, with all the required hand holding necessary in those circumstances (and he would have been one of the more experienced clients). His view is therefore written very much from that perspective, and from that perspective, yes Boukhreev can be seen as somewhat derelict in his duties (until of course the shit hit the fan).

Boukhreevs own perspective, and that of the majority of the climbing community, is that a guide's job is to pass on their experience and advice to climbers that have not been on THAT mountain before - in the same way that a club pro might pass on their advice about their course to a scratch golfer playing there for the first time. It is not to teach them how to put one foot in front of the other (or teach them how to putt in my analogy).

Of course he knew it was also his job to kick into gear if the shit hit the fan which is exactly what he did do, and wouldn't have been able to do if he had been babysitting clients on their way up and down (even still he had spent a about 90 mins at or near the summit helping clients to finish their summit push and get turned around for descending, before doing so himself).

It should also be noted that the Mountain Madness team had fewer clients that could be described as requiring that hand holding - with a number of experienced 8000m climbers and others that were accomplished mountaineers in their own right, if not quite in the Himalayas.

The perspective of the two teams, and thus their guides, was quite different.

My first introduction into the events of that night came in Joe Simpson's Dark Shadows Falling, which is pretty much all about that debate around the ethics of guiding. Simpson was on Pumori when the storm hit and watched/heard/imagined all that unfolded over those few nights.
:thumbup: Thanks for that. Puts the different viewpoints in perspective.

I view JK as a bitter little man. He was still bitching about it when the 2015 Everest film was released saying it's portrayal of him was all BS. Having watched it I didn't think it portrayed him in a particularly harsh light.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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PornDog wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:54 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:29 pm
booji boy wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:54 am

Thanks. That was an excellent video account of the tragedy. Interesting that John Krakauer never features in any of these documentaries. He gets all the acclaim for his book Into Thin Air but you never see him interviewed in these productions which is pretty telling considering he was part of Rob Hall's team.
I agree. His view of the Russian guide as a bit of a maverick who kept disappearing, conflicts with other accounts that the Russian guide was a hero who actually knew what he was doing.

It was interesting seeing the climbers in that documentary talking about events from a personal viewpoint... I read the book first so easily recognised them when they spoke... but the feeling you get from them on the doco, is that Everest is like a spiritual awakening... more powerful than they imagined, and the pull to climb it even when the brain is foggy from altitude must be incredibly strong... despite the dangers...
Krakauer, despite being a dedicated outdoors man, was one of those people who really shouldn't have been on that mountain. No high altitude experience - he was there to be guided to the top and back down again, with all the required hand holding necessary in those circumstances (and he would have been one of the more experienced clients). His view is therefore written very much from that perspective, and from that perspective, yes Boukhreev can be seen as somewhat derelict in his duties (until of course the shit hit the fan).

Boukhreevs own perspective, and that of the majority of the climbing community, is that a guide's job is to pass on their experience and advice to climbers that have not been on THAT mountain before - in the same way that a club pro might pass on their advice about their course to a scratch golfer playing there for the first time. It is not to teach them how to put one foot in front of the other (or teach them how to putt in my analogy).

Of course he knew it was also his job to kick into gear if the shit hit the fan which is exactly what he did do, and wouldn't have been able to do if he had been babysitting clients on their way up and down (even still he had spent a about 90 mins at or near the summit helping clients to finish their summit push and get turned around for descending, before doing so himself).

It should also be noted that the Mountain Madness team had fewer clients that could be described as requiring that hand holding - with a number of experienced 8000m climbers and others that were accomplished mountaineers in their own right, if not quite in the Himalayas.

The perspective of the two teams, and thus their guides, was quite different.

My first introduction into the events of that night came in Joe Simpson's Dark Shadows Falling, which is pretty much all about that debate around the ethics of guiding. Simpson was on Pumori when the storm hit and watched/heard/imagined all that unfolded over those few nights.
Good points. That's the problem with Everest.. too many novices on the mountain... so reliant on perfect conditions etc. Even in JK's book, Boukhreev seemed to be a superman, despite JKs misgivings. So what you say above certainly adds more context. thanks.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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booji boy wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:52 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:44 pm That dilemma for Rob Hall. Doug Hansen just refused to turn around... so Rob either left him to summit alone and return alone or stayed with him knowing they may both die.... maybe if the storm hadn't of hit they may have survived, but still... how many of us would have left Doug Hansen to it? We'd probably all say we could of left him, but once there.. I wonder how difficult a decision it would be...

I can't remember as a while now since I read the book, but did the storm arrive earlier than predicted?
I'm not sure Rob Hall tried to turn him around. Remember he'd turned him around the previous year within sight of the summit. He really wanted him to get to the top to achieve his goal. And for Rob Hall the more clients that successfully summit the better for business. The other climbers that decided to go back made that decision themselves. They weren't sent down despite it being late in the day way past the turn around time.

I think Rob Hall wanted Doug Hansen to successfully summit and was happy to stay with him to assist. Trouble is I think Hansen was absolutely exhausted and collapsed almost immediately at the start of the descent. It was at that point that Rob Hall wouldn't leave him and it cost them both their lives as well as Andy Harris who climbed back up to assist.

As for the storm I don't think it was necessarily predicted. The main problem was that the expedition was way behind schedule and when the storm did hit they were all caught out in the open. If the expedition had been on time they should have all been back at Camp 4 tucked up in their tents.
About ten years since I read the book. You may well be right that he didn't try to stop Doug from going for the top. My memories are hazy. I might re-watch that video I posted again too as been about 10 year since I watched that as well.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:17 pm
booji boy wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:52 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 4:44 pm That dilemma for Rob Hall. Doug Hansen just refused to turn around... so Rob either left him to summit alone and return alone or stayed with him knowing they may both die.... maybe if the storm hadn't of hit they may have survived, but still... how many of us would have left Doug Hansen to it? We'd probably all say we could of left him, but once there.. I wonder how difficult a decision it would be...

I can't remember as a while now since I read the book, but did the storm arrive earlier than predicted?
I'm not sure Rob Hall tried to turn him around. Remember he'd turned him around the previous year within sight of the summit. He really wanted him to get to the top to achieve his goal. And for Rob Hall the more clients that successfully summit the better for business. The other climbers that decided to go back made that decision themselves. They weren't sent down despite it being late in the day way past the turn around time.

I think Rob Hall wanted Doug Hansen to successfully summit and was happy to stay with him to assist. Trouble is I think Hansen was absolutely exhausted and collapsed almost immediately at the start of the descent. It was at that point that Rob Hall wouldn't leave him and it cost them both their lives as well as Andy Harris who climbed back up to assist.

As for the storm I don't think it was necessarily predicted. The main problem was that the expedition was way behind schedule and when the storm did hit they were all caught out in the open. If the expedition had been on time they should have all been back at Camp 4 tucked up in their tents.
About ten years since I read the book. You may well be right that he didn't try to stop Doug from going for the top. My memories are hazy. I might re-watch that video I posted again too as been about 10 year since I watched that as well.
I watched that video you posted at the weekend and the Aussie guy (can't recall his name) who was one of the two that made the decision to turn back said that when he told Rob Hall he was turning back he could 'see the disappointment in his face'. Apparently Rob replied something to the effect of "It's your decision pal, see you back at camp 4."

Rob Hall wanted them all to summit and wasnt asking anyone to turn around. I just think that Doug Hansen was so slow and so far behind schedule the decision needed to be made for him.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Some fairly athletic leaps of assumption there Booji... none of us know exactly what went on or why guys made the decisions they did up there.

As expedition leader, the responsibility falls onto Rob Hall and sadly, he made poor decisions that cost him and others their lives.

Krakueur admitted later that he’d published too quickly after the event, I think it was due to deadlines as he was on the climb as a guest writer. He wasn’t part of the team in that sense, he was essentially a client. He rewrote his account for a later edition, clarifying some of his commentary and misunderstandings related to Boukreev’s actions on the night. I’ve read several of his books and there’s no way he comes across to me as a bitter little man. I don’t think that’s at all fair.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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There's nothing definitive about why Hall and Hansen carried on past the turn around time. The idea that there was a reluctance to turn Hansen around so close to the summit for the second year running is something proposed after the fact as one possible explanation for why he didn't turn him around. Truth is nobody knows, nor ever will.


And yeah I wouldn't be as hard on Krakauer as all that. Like I said from his perspective a lot of his criticisms are valid. While I do think he originally voiced those opinions in a very unfair way - allowing for what must be, even to this day, some pretty hefty PTSD and survivors guilt - I wouldn't be overly critical of his right to comment, even if I wouldn't be in agreement with him.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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PornDog wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:38 pm There's nothing definitive about why Hall and Hansen carried on past the turn around time. The idea that there was a reluctance to turn Hansen around so close to the summit for the second year running is something proposed after the fact as one possible explanation for why he didn't turn him around. Truth is nobody knows, nor ever will.


And yeah I wouldn't be as hard on Krakauer as all that. Like I said from his perspective a lot of his criticisms are valid. While I do think he originally voiced those opinions in a very unfair way - allowing for what must be, even to this day, some pretty hefty PTSD and survivors guilt - I wouldn't be overly critical of his right to comment, even if I wouldn't be in agreement with him.
The PBS documentary implies that Hall's response to the suggestion over the radio from Guy Cotter that he should abandon Hansen and get himself down was met with irritation. This would have happened at, what, late afternoon of May 11 after the storm had hit, well past the point when Hall would have known himself the writing was on the wall.

We can't say exactly how or why because the interactions between him and Hansen are largely guesswork, but Hall's predicament (and arguably that of his team) was down to his own decisions, whether not having an adequate indemnity clause inserted into clients' contracts enabling him to walk away on a refusal or, perhaps more tragically, allowing himself to be steered by a mixture of sentiment and commercial fear earlier that afternoon. All options shatter the illusion that he was meticulous, no-nonsense and non-compromising - surely Krakauer could have reflected that in the cold light of day, this is the case.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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guy smiley wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:29 pm Some fairly athletic leaps of assumption there Booji... none of us know exactly what went on or why guys made the decisions they did up there.

As expedition leader, the responsibility falls onto Rob Hall and sadly, he made poor decisions that cost him and others their lives.

Krakueur admitted later that he’d published too quickly after the event, I think it was due to deadlines as he was on the climb as a guest writer. He wasn’t part of the team in that sense, he was essentially a client. He rewrote his account for a later edition, clarifying some of his commentary and misunderstandings related to Boukreev’s actions on the night. I’ve read several of his books and there’s no way he comes across to me as a bitter little man. I don’t think that’s at all fair.
Think there was an addition to later editions of his book that yes some people came out in a bad light which was undeserved. And also how inaccurate some of the accounts were and some of them in the book. Put it down to the issues people have mentally at that altitude. One I remember was along the lines of x spoke to y in the book, later turned out neither of them were anywhere near each other and both thought they had spoken to someone else, again those people don't remember that happening.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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mabunch78 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:18 am
PornDog wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:38 pm There's nothing definitive about why Hall and Hansen carried on past the turn around time. The idea that there was a reluctance to turn Hansen around so close to the summit for the second year running is something proposed after the fact as one possible explanation for why he didn't turn him around. Truth is nobody knows, nor ever will.


And yeah I wouldn't be as hard on Krakauer as all that. Like I said from his perspective a lot of his criticisms are valid. While I do think he originally voiced those opinions in a very unfair way - allowing for what must be, even to this day, some pretty hefty PTSD and survivors guilt - I wouldn't be overly critical of his right to comment, even if I wouldn't be in agreement with him.
The PBS documentary implies that Hall's response to the suggestion over the radio from Guy Cotter that he should abandon Hansen and get himself down was met with irritation. This would have happened at, what, late afternoon of May 11 after the storm had hit, well past the point when Hall would have known himself the writing was on the wall.

We can't say exactly how or why because the interactions between him and Hansen are largely guesswork, but Hall's predicament (and arguably that of his team) was down to his own decisions, whether not having an adequate indemnity clause inserted into clients' contracts enabling him to walk away on a refusal or, perhaps more tragically, allowing himself to be steered by a mixture of sentiment and commercial fear earlier that afternoon. All options shatter the illusion that he was meticulous, no-nonsense and non-compromising - surely Krakauer could have reflected that in the cold light of day, this is the case.
We were discussing why Hall didn't turn Hansen around at the 2pm cut off time, to which there are no definitive answers, but plenty of theories.

You're talking about a different conversation much much later in the night when the issue was an immediate matter of survival. The 'irritation' you describe (and not the word I would pick), was down to Hansen being able to hear the conversation, not that it wasn't a valid conversation to be had.

You have to remember that Krakauer is not a dispassionate observer - he knew Rob, has loyalty to him and probably carries a significant amount of guilt. His writings should be read with that perspective in mind. Does Hall's actions deserve criticism, of course (as does Fischer's, and plenty goes to the lack of cooperation between the Sherpa teams as well), but I think you are asking too much of Krakauer for him to be the one to lead that criticism.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Monkey Magic wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:40 am
guy smiley wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:29 pm Some fairly athletic leaps of assumption there Booji... none of us know exactly what went on or why guys made the decisions they did up there.

As expedition leader, the responsibility falls onto Rob Hall and sadly, he made poor decisions that cost him and others their lives.

Krakueur admitted later that he’d published too quickly after the event, I think it was due to deadlines as he was on the climb as a guest writer. He wasn’t part of the team in that sense, he was essentially a client. He rewrote his account for a later edition, clarifying some of his commentary and misunderstandings related to Boukreev’s actions on the night. I’ve read several of his books and there’s no way he comes across to me as a bitter little man. I don’t think that’s at all fair.
Think there was an addition to later editions of his book that yes some people came out in a bad light which was undeserved. And also how inaccurate some of the accounts were and some of them in the book. Put it down to the issues people have mentally at that altitude. One I remember was along the lines of x spoke to y in the book, later turned out neither of them were anywhere near each other and both thought they had spoken to someone else, again those people don't remember that happening.
The whole miscommunication about whether there was O2 at the south summit is another of one of those cluster fucks you can just put down to "shit happens at high altitude". Do we even know if there was O2 stashed there? I don't think there's a definitive answer to that either.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by booji boy »

PornDog wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:38 pm There's nothing definitive about why Hall and Hansen carried on past the turn around time. The idea that there was a reluctance to turn Hansen around so close to the summit for the second year running is something proposed after the fact as one possible explanation for why he didn't turn him around. Truth is nobody knows, nor ever will.


And yeah I wouldn't be as hard on Krakauer as all that. Like I said from his perspective a lot of his criticisms are valid. While I do think he originally voiced those opinions in a very unfair way - allowing for what must be, even to this day, some pretty hefty PTSD and survivors guilt - I wouldn't be overly critical of his right to comment, even if I wouldn't be in agreement with him.
Rewatching the documentary posted above Helen Wilton the base camp manager said that Rob Hall called at 2.30pm from the summit saying that members of the team were leaving the summit to begin the descent and he could see Doug Hansen who would soon reach the summit. Then there would be a quick turnaround and they'd be on their way down. If it was 2.30pm already I wonder how much longer it took Doug Hansen to complete the climb and reach the summit.

At 4.15pm Rob Hall radioed for help saying Doug Hansen was out of oxygen and could they send up help. At that stage Andy Harris headed back up.

At 5.15pm Rob Hall spoke with Guy Cotter and that was when Cotter suggested Rob get moving and leave Doug Hansen which Rob Hall refused to do.

They didn't hear from Rob Hall for another 12 hours. By then he said Doug Hansen was gone and he didn't know where Andy Harris was though Harris had been with him during the night.

I think Rob Hall was pleased that Doug Hansen had successfully summited and at 2.30pm was still happy that the expedition was on track despite the lateness in the day. The two things that he hadn't counted on were 1. Doug Hansen was exhausted as he had used up everything including all his oxygen to reach the summit and had nothing left for the descent and 2. the unexpected storm that hit them.

In the video one of the sherpas said that it was late in the day and the weather was turning bad and he suggested to Doug Hansen that he should turn around but Hansen shook his head and pointed upwards to the summit. So Hansen ignored the sherpas advice but there is no indication whether a similar conversation was had with Rob Hall?
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by Gynormus »

Duff Paddy wrote: Mon May 21, 2012 4:56 pm Medics aren't a whole lot of use on the mountain, other than giving you another IM injection of dexamethasone, you need to get down or you'll die - it's pretty much that simple.
You shud checked
Into the Death Zone
Also there were 2 on C4 dealing with the medical centre & a wlesh Intl who was on B2 sent back with the medical checks & he was gutted
Operations can be executed quicklyat BC1 as no bacteria survives & quarterising scars is also easier. If your lungs get filled too quickly you are screwed. You have a point that over a certain altitude if you go down thats it. But if you can get to B2 the Base you have a chance. Its the numbers going up & the queues these days as well as the pollution above base which is difficult to clear up. Tourist money vs environment?
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by guy smiley »

I follow a few mountain type accounts in Instagram...
https://www.instagram.com/p/COlJVzvBJu8 ... _copy_link

this one reports that Kami Rita, climbing with an all Sherpa team, completed his 25th summit.

25 times to the top. That is surreal.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 am I follow a few mountain type accounts in Instagram...
https://www.instagram.com/p/COlJVzvBJu8 ... _copy_link

this one reports that Kami Rita, climbing with an all Sherpa team, completed his 25th summit.

25 times to the top. That is surreal.
Amazing achievement but what’s the f**king point? If Sherpa’s really believe that Everest is a god and that climbing the mountain may anger the god - well he’s certainly tempting fate isn’t he.
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by Duff Paddy »

Anyone watching The Last Mountain on BBC2? f**king amazing documentary about the tragic death of Tom Ballard on Namba Perbat
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by Duff Paddy »

Climbing that particular route in winter seemed to be quite clearly a suicide mission. Some incredible quotes from a friend of his climbing partner “if you decide to hitchhike and take a lift with a drunk driver then it’s your decision” and Reinhold Messner “climbing that route? Every man has the right to decide where he wants to die”.
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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Duff Paddy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:22 pm Climbing that particular route in winter seemed to be quite clearly a suicide mission. Some incredible quotes from a friend of his climbing partner “if you decide to hitchhike and take a lift with a drunk driver then it’s your decision” and Reinhold Messner “climbing that route? Every man has the right to decide where he wants to die”.
I couldn't work it out.. were they implying he wanted to die on the mountain in the end.. ? His girlfriend sort of implied it?
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:46 pm
Duff Paddy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:22 pm Climbing that particular route in winter seemed to be quite clearly a suicide mission. Some incredible quotes from a friend of his climbing partner “if you decide to hitchhike and take a lift with a drunk driver then it’s your decision” and Reinhold Messner “climbing that route? Every man has the right to decide where he wants to die”.
I couldn't work it out.. were they implying he wanted to die on the mountain in the end.. ? His girlfriend sort of implied it?
I don’t think there’s any other conclusion to be drawn is there? It was madness
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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Duff Paddy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:55 pm
Grandpa wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:46 pm
Duff Paddy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:22 pm Climbing that particular route in winter seemed to be quite clearly a suicide mission. Some incredible quotes from a friend of his climbing partner “if you decide to hitchhike and take a lift with a drunk driver then it’s your decision” and Reinhold Messner “climbing that route? Every man has the right to decide where he wants to die”.
I couldn't work it out.. were they implying he wanted to die on the mountain in the end.. ? His girlfriend sort of implied it?
I don’t think there’s any other conclusion to be drawn is there? It was madness
Mountain sickness maybe? Or was it a more chronic long term mental illness thing... and did his dad fancy his girlfriend after he died? Couldn't work that out either..

I only watched the last half hour after seeing your post...
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danny_fitz
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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The father did not seem to have a single emotional bone in his body.
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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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danny_fitz wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:52 pm The father did not seem to have a single emotional bone in his body.
That thing about leave him on the mountain he wouldn't want to be saved?

But seemed quite emotional about his spiritual friendship with his son's GF.
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danny_fitz
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:53 pm
danny_fitz wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:52 pm The father did not seem to have a single emotional bone in his body.
That thing about leave him on the mountain he wouldn't want to be saved?

But seemed quite emotional about his spiritual friendship with his son's GF.
No not that, I think most hard core mountaineers would not agree with others putting their lives at risk to recover their bodies. That attitude just comes with the territory. I just found his general demeanour throughout most of the programme was just so matter of fact. Maybe after losing his wife he developed some kind of stoic emotional stonewall as a coping mechanism???? Everyone else on the documentary just seemed a lot more personally invested.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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danny_fitz wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:05 am
Grandpa wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:53 pm
danny_fitz wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:52 pm The father did not seem to have a single emotional bone in his body.
That thing about leave him on the mountain he wouldn't want to be saved?

But seemed quite emotional about his spiritual friendship with his son's GF.
No not that, I think most hard core mountaineers would not agree with others putting their lives at risk to recover their bodies. That attitude just comes with the territory. I just found his general demeanour throughout most of the programme was just so matter of fact. Maybe after losing his wife he developed some kind of stoic emotional stonewall as a coping mechanism???? Everyone else on the documentary just seemed a lot more personally invested.
It was so f**ked. It was like he knew Tom was destined to die young on a mountain like his mother and he was completely emotionally detached when it happened.
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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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danny_fitz wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:05 am
Grandpa wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:53 pm
danny_fitz wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:52 pm The father did not seem to have a single emotional bone in his body.
That thing about leave him on the mountain he wouldn't want to be saved?

But seemed quite emotional about his spiritual friendship with his son's GF.
No not that, I think most hard core mountaineers would not agree with others putting their lives at risk to recover their bodies. That attitude just comes with the territory. I just found his general demeanour throughout most of the programme was just so matter of fact. Maybe after losing his wife he developed some kind of stoic emotional stonewall as a coping mechanism???? Everyone else on the documentary just seemed a lot more personally invested.
I only saw the last half hour.. but agree with what you and DP say... I wonder if there was some sort of autism in that family?
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Miguel Indurain
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by Miguel Indurain »

Göran Kropp.
Cycled from Sweden to Mt.Everest, climbed Mt.Everest without oxygen and without any sherpa assistance and cycled back to Sweden again!
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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Miguel Indurain wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:41 pm Göran Kropp.
Cycled from Sweden to Mt.Everest, climbed Mt.Everest without oxygen and without any sherpa assistance and cycled back to Sweden again!
Incredible. And in the same season as the great 1996 Everest tragedy.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Grandpa wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:08 pm
Miguel Indurain wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:41 pm Göran Kropp.
Cycled from Sweden to Mt.Everest, climbed Mt.Everest without oxygen and without any sherpa assistance and cycled back to Sweden again!
Incredible. And in the same season as the great 1996 Everest tragedy.
Amazing achievement - but on a technical note is it correct to say that he climbed without Sherpa support if he used the fixed ropes that several Sherpas died whilst fixing that year? I think there is a lot of Western arrogance when it comes to the Sherpas.
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Grandpa
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

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Duff Paddy wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:44 pm
Grandpa wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:08 pm
Miguel Indurain wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:41 pm Göran Kropp.
Cycled from Sweden to Mt.Everest, climbed Mt.Everest without oxygen and without any sherpa assistance and cycled back to Sweden again!
Incredible. And in the same season as the great 1996 Everest tragedy.
Amazing achievement - but on a technical note is it correct to say that he climbed without Sherpa support if he used the fixed ropes that several Sherpas died whilst fixing that year? I think there is a lot of Western arrogance when it comes to the Sherpas.
Very true. Only Mallory and Irvine, and Tenzing and Hillary climbed to the top blind really.
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PornDog
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Re: Return of the thread for people obsessed with Everest

Post by PornDog »

Grandpa wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:50 pm
Duff Paddy wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:44 pm
Grandpa wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:08 pm
Miguel Indurain wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:41 pm Göran Kropp.
Cycled from Sweden to Mt.Everest, climbed Mt.Everest without oxygen and without any sherpa assistance and cycled back to Sweden again!
Incredible. And in the same season as the great 1996 Everest tragedy.
Amazing achievement - but on a technical note is it correct to say that he climbed without Sherpa support if he used the fixed ropes that several Sherpas died whilst fixing that year? I think there is a lot of Western arrogance when it comes to the Sherpas.
Very true. Only Mallory and Irvine, and Tenzing and Hillary climbed to the top blind really.
Well not really - you would never, ever, trust equipment put down in a previous year.

While there is a shit ton of Western arrogance, or even dare I say it racism (akin to Columbus 'discovering' the Americas), not using things like ladders over crevasses would be a particularly strict interpretation of Sherpa assistance.

Having said that you could feasibly climb the north side using that strict interpretation.

On the note of unusual climbs, there was also a guy who literally climbed Everest from sea level, starting off at the Bay of Bengal and even swimming across the Ganges.
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