Anthony Joshua

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CrazyIslander
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by CrazyIslander »

AJ needed to be overrated and marketed. He brought back heavyweight boxing. Current heavyweights owe him big time. He deserved his belts and money.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by franch fan »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:20 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:41 pm AJ has always been widely overrated to me especially by the British medias and fans

His only achievement in his professional career so far has been to defeat a 40+ years old Klitchko...and even in that fight, he struggled quite a lot and was even getting dominated until that uppercut.
When you take into consideration all the top 10 fighters Joshua has fought as well as current or former champions and people who have only lost one fight and that being to Vlad I'm not sure what you expect of a man who has only had 26 fights.
Don't forget Wilder admitted he turned down a $100m two fight deal and at the time pretended it hadn't been offered. Look at the resumes of Wilder and Fury and they just don't stand up. then there is a massive drop off. As for Wilder his padded record is an absolute joke.

Go on youtube and look for Furys top 10 KOs if you want a laugh. Maybe list his top 5 fights. List Wilders top 5 opponents and look at their records
Well, I never said the current crop of heavyweighters was world class stuff
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by franch fan »

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:41 pm AJ has always been widely overrated to me especially by the British medias and fans

His only achievement in his professional career so far has been to defeat a 40+ years old Klitchko...and even in that fight, he struggled quite a lot and was even getting dominated until that uppercut.
He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by eldanielfire »

franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:41 pm AJ has always been widely overrated to me especially by the British medias and fans

His only achievement in his professional career so far has been to defeat a 40+ years old Klitchko...and even in that fight, he struggled quite a lot and was even getting dominated until that uppercut.
He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
Who said that then?
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by simon7 »

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:49 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:41 pm AJ has always been widely overrated to me especially by the British medias and fans

His only achievement in his professional career so far has been to defeat a 40+ years old Klitchko...and even in that fight, he struggled quite a lot and was even getting dominated until that uppercut.
He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
Who said that then?
I don't get the hype around AJ either, after the fight they were talking about him still going down as one of the great heavyweights on DAZN (I think). He is a good heavyweight but doesn't belong in the conversation for great heavyweight at the moment. The only one that may of the current crop is Tyson Fury but he still needs to get some more notable wins under his belt to enter that select group.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by eldanielfire »

simon7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:59 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:49 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:41 pm AJ has always been widely overrated to me especially by the British medias and fans

His only achievement in his professional career so far has been to defeat a 40+ years old Klitchko...and even in that fight, he struggled quite a lot and was even getting dominated until that uppercut.
He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
Who said that then?
I don't get the hype around AJ either, after the fight they were talking about him still going down as one of the great heavyweights on DAZN (I think). He is a good heavyweight but doesn't belong in the conversation for great heavyweight at the moment. The only one that may of the current crop is Tyson Fury but he still needs to get some more notable wins under his belt to enter that select group.
Joshua neat the greatest heavyweight of the last generation and won 3 heavyweight belts and was a technicality away from fighting for the 4th in the biggest fight in a long time. Any hype Joshua had was earned and lived up to or damn close enough. Argue how great he is, but you can't claim he hasn't made some immense achievements. Ergo he lived up to the hype.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:41 pm AJ has always been widely overrated to me especially by the British medias and fans

His only achievement in his professional career so far has been to defeat a 40+ years old Klitchko...and even in that fight, he struggled quite a lot and was even getting dominated until that uppercut.
He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
You tosser :lol:
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Kahu »

AJ will clean Usyk's clock when they run it back. He'll turn up with 20 pounds more muscle and with his balls in his trunks. AJ threw that fight, I have no doubt.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Mick Mannock »

Kahu wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:01 am AJ will clean Usyk's clock when they run it back. He'll turn up with 20 pounds more muscle and with his balls in his trunks. AJ threw that fight, I have no doubt.
That is not the way a fight is thrown.

Being outclassed, and repeatedly smacked about the head is not a good "throw a fight" plan.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Floppykid »

Kind of kills interest in the Fury fight.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Masterji »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:03 pm
Masterji wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:16 pm Joshua is like a body builder that became a boxer, too robotic and boring
Skinny lad takes up boxing builds himself up wins an Olympic gold medal and all but one of the heavyweight world championship belts. Along the way earns 10s of millions of pounds filling out massive stadia like no other current heavyweight

Useless fucker
What ever work but he is robotic and boring
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by simon7 »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:05 am
simon7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:59 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:49 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm

He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
Who said that then?
I don't get the hype around AJ either, after the fight they were talking about him still going down as one of the great heavyweights on DAZN (I think). He is a good heavyweight but doesn't belong in the conversation for great heavyweight at the moment. The only one that may of the current crop is Tyson Fury but he still needs to get some more notable wins under his belt to enter that select group.
Joshua neat the greatest heavyweight of the last generation and won 3 heavyweight belts and was a technicality away from fighting for the 4th in the biggest fight in a long time. Any hype Joshua had was earned and lived up to or damn close enough. Argue how great he is, but you can't claim he hasn't made some immense achievements. Ergo he lived up to the hype.
We will have to agree to disagree.

AJ has definitely done well in his career and he can be proud of it when he finally hangs up his gloves, I actually thought he had one of his better performances against Uysk. AJ can't control the quality of the heavyweight division or the politics that determine who he fights but he seems to be far more highly rated in the UK than outside of it.

But in saying that, to be labelled a heavyweight great they shouldn't be totally out-classed by a fighter from the division below whilst they are still in their prime.

The knock out to Ruiz was one of those things and has happened to many great fighters when they were sloppy and got caught e.g. Lennox. But the fight against Uysk was very one-sided and AJ was hanging on by a thread at the end after Uysk decided he had already banked enough rounds to win so finally broke out his full arsenal. I don't see much changing in a rematch unless Uysk gets sloppy and AJ catches him.

Anyway, that is my opinion.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by eldanielfire »

simon7 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:06 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:05 am
simon7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:59 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:49 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm

He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
Who said that then?
I don't get the hype around AJ either, after the fight they were talking about him still going down as one of the great heavyweights on DAZN (I think). He is a good heavyweight but doesn't belong in the conversation for great heavyweight at the moment. The only one that may of the current crop is Tyson Fury but he still needs to get some more notable wins under his belt to enter that select group.
Joshua neat the greatest heavyweight of the last generation and won 3 heavyweight belts and was a technicality away from fighting for the 4th in the biggest fight in a long time. Any hype Joshua had was earned and lived up to or damn close enough. Argue how great he is, but you can't claim he hasn't made some immense achievements. Ergo he lived up to the hype.
We will have to agree to disagree.

AJ has definitely done well in his career and he can be proud of it when he finally hangs up his gloves, I actually thought he had one of his better performances against Uysk. AJ can't control the quality of the heavyweight division or the politics that determine who he fights but he seems to be far more highly rated in the UK than outside of it.

But in saying that, to be labelled a heavyweight great they shouldn't be totally out-classed by a fighter from the division below whilst they are still in their prime.

The knock out to Ruiz was one of those things and has happened to many great fighters when they were sloppy and got caught e.g. Lennox. But the fight against Uysk was very one-sided and AJ was hanging on by a thread at the end after Uysk decided he had already banked enough rounds to win so finally broke out his full arsenal. I don't see much changing in a rematch unless Uysk gets sloppy and AJ catches him.

Anyway, that is my opinion.
I wasn't saying Joshua was a great heavyweight. Only he beat a great fighter and won 3 belts, which in any situation deserves hype somewhat. His success is pretty much shows the hype was right. he also helped rejuvenate huge interest in the division. Fair play to him.

People can criticise that he's not an all time great boxer, doesn't have a great chin or whatever, but overhyped? How can a world champ be overhyped unless they are deemed as the next coming of Ali or something?
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by CrazyIslander »

Joshua was definitely overhyped. But he needed to be, the heavyweight division needed a charismatic champion and he was it. Eddie Hearn did a great job managing AJ and in turn it brought back the division to the limelight. Hopefully he can regain his title in the long run and set up a big fight with Fury/
Wilder. I say long run coz I hope Usyk win the rematch and goes to fight either Wilder/Fury.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by simon7 »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:22 pm
simon7 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:06 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:05 am
simon7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:59 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:49 pm

Who said that then?
I don't get the hype around AJ either, after the fight they were talking about him still going down as one of the great heavyweights on DAZN (I think). He is a good heavyweight but doesn't belong in the conversation for great heavyweight at the moment. The only one that may of the current crop is Tyson Fury but he still needs to get some more notable wins under his belt to enter that select group.
Joshua neat the greatest heavyweight of the last generation and won 3 heavyweight belts and was a technicality away from fighting for the 4th in the biggest fight in a long time. Any hype Joshua had was earned and lived up to or damn close enough. Argue how great he is, but you can't claim he hasn't made some immense achievements. Ergo he lived up to the hype.
We will have to agree to disagree.

AJ has definitely done well in his career and he can be proud of it when he finally hangs up his gloves, I actually thought he had one of his better performances against Uysk. AJ can't control the quality of the heavyweight division or the politics that determine who he fights but he seems to be far more highly rated in the UK than outside of it.

But in saying that, to be labelled a heavyweight great they shouldn't be totally out-classed by a fighter from the division below whilst they are still in their prime.

The knock out to Ruiz was one of those things and has happened to many great fighters when they were sloppy and got caught e.g. Lennox. But the fight against Uysk was very one-sided and AJ was hanging on by a thread at the end after Uysk decided he had already banked enough rounds to win so finally broke out his full arsenal. I don't see much changing in a rematch unless Uysk gets sloppy and AJ catches him.

Anyway, that is my opinion.
I wasn't saying Joshua was a great heavyweight. Only he beat a great fighter and won 3 belts, which in any situation deserves hype somewhat. His success is pretty much shows the hype was right. he also helped rejuvenate huge interest in the division. Fair play to him.

People can criticise that he's not an all time great boxer, doesn't have a great chin or whatever, but overhyped? How can a world champ be overhyped unless they are deemed as the next coming of Ali or something?
Ah I see, there was a typo in your earlier response which I misinterpreted as you saying AJ was a great heavyweight. Either way I think the British heavyweight renaissance has done a lot for heavyweight boxing in the UK.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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If you think Joshua has been overhyped just go back and read the first page of this thread. You would have been laughed at for suggesting he would have achieved what he has in 26 fights.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by simon7 »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:42 am If you think Joshua has been overhyped just go back and read the first page of this thread. You would have been laughed at for suggesting he would have achieved what he has in 26 fights.
ED said the term overhyped, I didn't.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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simon7 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:16 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:42 am If you think Joshua has been overhyped just go back and read the first page of this thread. You would have been laughed at for suggesting he would have achieved what he has in 26 fights.
ED said the term overhyped, I didn't.
Sorry I actually meant anyone thinks he has been overhyped as there were several people saying it. If I'm responding to any particular individual I quote them.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by You can call me Bill »

Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports, and he's been shown up as well short of the top draw in his own sport. The world was led to believe that this was an all time great, but he fought Usyk like he was stoned out of his face; no movement, no speed, no power.

It's a shame because he's a great guy, and you have to have some serious qualities to beat even an aged Klitschko and a multiple belt world champion, but he's nowhere near what the world has been led to believe the last few years. A fantastic athlete and an extremely competent and capable boxer, but not near to being potentially one of the best of the best which is what we'd all been fooled into thinking he was. The fight was as good an example of an over hyped sports star being found out, as you will ever see.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:30 am Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports, and he's been shown up as well short of the top draw in his own sport. The world was led to believe that this was an all time great, but he fought Usyk like he was stoned out of his face; no movement, no speed, no power.

It's a shame because he's a great guy, and you have to have some serious qualities to beat even an aged Klitschko and a multiple belt world champion, but he's nowhere near what the world has been led to believe the last few years. A fantastic athlete and an extremely competent and capable boxer, but not near to being potentially one of the best of the best which is what we'd all been fooled into thinking he was. The fight was as good an example of an over hyped sports star being found out, as you will ever see.

If you had asked who is the bigest star in global sports and offered up Lebron James vs Tom Brady or Christiano Ronaldo I might not have agreed with your choices but it would have been worth a discussion. However you saying Joshua has been billed as that guy with a fraction of the recognition and earnings of these guys makes me just want to slap you with a wet fish.

Same as on the tennis thread. You are spouting bullshit you don't believe just for effect.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by simon7 »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:56 am
simon7 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:16 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:42 am If you think Joshua has been overhyped just go back and read the first page of this thread. You would have been laughed at for suggesting he would have achieved what he has in 26 fights.
ED said the term overhyped, I didn't.
Sorry I actually meant anyone thinks he has been overhyped as there were several people saying it. If I'm responding to any particular individual I quote them.
All good, cheers
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by You can call me Bill »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:14 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:30 am Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports, and he's been shown up as well short of the top draw in his own sport. The world was led to believe that this was an all time great, but he fought Usyk like he was stoned out of his face; no movement, no speed, no power.

It's a shame because he's a great guy, and you have to have some serious qualities to beat even an aged Klitschko and a multiple belt world champion, but he's nowhere near what the world has been led to believe the last few years. A fantastic athlete and an extremely competent and capable boxer, but not near to being potentially one of the best of the best which is what we'd all been fooled into thinking he was. The fight was as good an example of an over hyped sports star being found out, as you will ever see.

If you had asked who is the bigest star in global sports and offered up Lebron James vs Tom Brady or Christiano Ronaldo I might not have agreed with your choices but it would have been worth a discussion. However you saying Joshua has been billed as that guy with a fraction of the recognition and earnings of these guys makes me just want to slap you with a wet fish.

Same as on the tennis thread. You are spouting bullshit you don't believe just for effect.
It was an unresearched opinion admittedly, but I genuinely don't think that it's viable to argue that he hasn't been overhyped, based on Saturday's fight. The only caveat to that is that I suspect that probably everyone involved honestly (somehow) thought that he was (at least a bit) better than he is.

I commented on Saturday night towards the end of the fight, that AJ is more Audley than Lennox. Obviously he's achieved far more than Harrison did and in honesty is likely a much more complete boxer, but I reckon you could have put Harrison in the ring at the weekend and I doubt he'd have looked any more ordinary than AJ did. A Lewis would never look so lacking in sporting class as AJ did.

That's not intended to inflame (and neither were my comments about Emma and her coach), it's just reality. In sporting terms, Saturday was a Wizard of Oz moment.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by fatcat »

It was an unresearched opinion
:lol:
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by CrazyIslander »

You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:30 am Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports
I agree but why do you think he was overhyped?
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Anonymous 1 »

You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:36 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:14 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:30 am Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports, and he's been shown up as well short of the top draw in his own sport. The world was led to believe that this was an all time great, but he fought Usyk like he was stoned out of his face; no movement, no speed, no power.

It's a shame because he's a great guy, and you have to have some serious qualities to beat even an aged Klitschko and a multiple belt world champion, but he's nowhere near what the world has been led to believe the last few years. A fantastic athlete and an extremely competent and capable boxer, but not near to being potentially one of the best of the best which is what we'd all been fooled into thinking he was. The fight was as good an example of an over hyped sports star being found out, as you will ever see.

If you had asked who is the bigest star in global sports and offered up Lebron James vs Tom Brady or Christiano Ronaldo I might not have agreed with your choices but it would have been worth a discussion. However you saying Joshua has been billed as that guy with a fraction of the recognition and earnings of these guys makes me just want to slap you with a wet fish.

Same as on the tennis thread. You are spouting bullshit you don't believe just for effect.
It was an unresearched opinion admittedly, but I genuinely don't think that it's viable to argue that he hasn't been overhyped, based on Saturday's fight. The only caveat to that is that I suspect that probably everyone involved honestly (somehow) thought that he was (at least a bit) better than he is.

I commented on Saturday night towards the end of the fight, that AJ is more Audley than Lennox. Obviously he's achieved far more than Harrison did and in honesty is likely a much more complete boxer, but I reckon you could have put Harrison in the ring at the weekend and I doubt he'd have looked any more ordinary than AJ did. A Lewis would never look so lacking in sporting class as AJ did.

That's not intended to inflame (and neither were my comments about Emma and her coach), it's just reality. In sporting terms, Saturday was a Wizard of Oz moment.
I just don't get the problem people have with Joshua. Lennox Lewis took up boxing as a 12 year old kid and became an all time great heavyweight. Joshua took up boxing as an 18 year old. He isn't a great boxer has never looked like one and is never going to be one. So what give him credit for achieving as much as he has I say.

He is not even the biggest UK sporting star by recognition or earnings yet you clearly have some issue because you think he is touted as the biggest male sports star in the world.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by You can call me Bill »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:22 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:36 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:14 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:30 am Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports, and he's been shown up as well short of the top draw in his own sport. The world was led to believe that this was an all time great, but he fought Usyk like he was stoned out of his face; no movement, no speed, no power.

It's a shame because he's a great guy, and you have to have some serious qualities to beat even an aged Klitschko and a multiple belt world champion, but he's nowhere near what the world has been led to believe the last few years. A fantastic athlete and an extremely competent and capable boxer, but not near to being potentially one of the best of the best which is what we'd all been fooled into thinking he was. The fight was as good an example of an over hyped sports star being found out, as you will ever see.
If you had asked who is the bigest star in global sports and offered up Lebron James vs Tom Brady or Christiano Ronaldo I might not have agreed with your choices but it would have been worth a discussion. However you saying Joshua has been billed as that guy with a fraction of the recognition and earnings of these guys makes me just want to slap you with a wet fish.

Same as on the tennis thread. You are spouting bullshit you don't believe just for effect.
It was an unresearched opinion admittedly, but I genuinely don't think that it's viable to argue that he hasn't been overhyped, based on Saturday's fight. The only caveat to that is that I suspect that probably everyone involved honestly (somehow) thought that he was (at least a bit) better than he is.

I commented on Saturday night towards the end of the fight, that AJ is more Audley than Lennox. Obviously he's achieved far more than Harrison did and in honesty is likely a much more complete boxer, but I reckon you could have put Harrison in the ring at the weekend and I doubt he'd have looked any more ordinary than AJ did. A Lewis would never look so lacking in sporting class as AJ did.

That's not intended to inflame (and neither were my comments about Emma and her coach), it's just reality. In sporting terms, Saturday was a Wizard of Oz moment.
I just don't get the problem people have with Joshua. Lennox Lewis took up boxing as a 12 year old kid and became an all time great heavyweight. Joshua took up boxing as an 18 year old. He isn't a great boxer has never looked like one and is never going to be one. So what give him credit for achieving as much as he has I say.

He is not even the biggest UK sporting star by recognition or earnings yet you clearly have some issue because you think he is touted as the biggest male sports star in the world.
It's a fair point about giving him credit for his (substantial) achievements.

I'd be interested to know though from those who think he hasn't been overhyped, whether they consider his performance on saturday to have been a disappointment or a surprise. To me it seems clear that most people following boxing to some extent, or even involved in boxing, would consider his performance to have been a disappointment and a surprise. If that's the case I don't see how a disappointment and a surprise can be distinguished from the contention that he's been over hyped. Isn't it precisely because of that over hype that seeing his ceiling is such a disappointment and surprise ?
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Anonymous 1 »

You can call me Bill wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:46 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:22 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:36 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:14 am
You can call me Bill wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:30 am Clearly he has been massively overhyped. This is the guy who's been billed in recent years as arguably the biggest star in global sports, and he's been shown up as well short of the top draw in his own sport. The world was led to believe that this was an all time great, but he fought Usyk like he was stoned out of his face; no movement, no speed, no power.

It's a shame because he's a great guy, and you have to have some serious qualities to beat even an aged Klitschko and a multiple belt world champion, but he's nowhere near what the world has been led to believe the last few years. A fantastic athlete and an extremely competent and capable boxer, but not near to being potentially one of the best of the best which is what we'd all been fooled into thinking he was. The fight was as good an example of an over hyped sports star being found out, as you will ever see.
If you had asked who is the bigest star in global sports and offered up Lebron James vs Tom Brady or Christiano Ronaldo I might not have agreed with your choices but it would have been worth a discussion. However you saying Joshua has been billed as that guy with a fraction of the recognition and earnings of these guys makes me just want to slap you with a wet fish.

Same as on the tennis thread. You are spouting bullshit you don't believe just for effect.
It was an unresearched opinion admittedly, but I genuinely don't think that it's viable to argue that he hasn't been overhyped, based on Saturday's fight. The only caveat to that is that I suspect that probably everyone involved honestly (somehow) thought that he was (at least a bit) better than he is.

I commented on Saturday night towards the end of the fight, that AJ is more Audley than Lennox. Obviously he's achieved far more than Harrison did and in honesty is likely a much more complete boxer, but I reckon you could have put Harrison in the ring at the weekend and I doubt he'd have looked any more ordinary than AJ did. A Lewis would never look so lacking in sporting class as AJ did.

That's not intended to inflame (and neither were my comments about Emma and her coach), it's just reality. In sporting terms, Saturday was a Wizard of Oz moment.
I just don't get the problem people have with Joshua. Lennox Lewis took up boxing as a 12 year old kid and became an all time great heavyweight. Joshua took up boxing as an 18 year old. He isn't a great boxer has never looked like one and is never going to be one. So what give him credit for achieving as much as he has I say.

He is not even the biggest UK sporting star by recognition or earnings yet you clearly have some issue because you think he is touted as the biggest male sports star in the world.
It's a fair point about giving him credit for his (substantial) achievements.

I'd be interested to know though from those who think he hasn't been overhyped, whether they consider his performance on saturday to have been a disappointment or a surprise. To me it seems clear that most people following boxing to some extent, or even involved in boxing, would consider his performance to have been a disappointment and a surprise. If that's the case I don't see how a disappointment and a surprise can be distinguished from the contention that he's been over hyped. Isn't it precisely because of that over hype that seeing his ceiling is such a disappointment and surprise ?
His performance was poor. He seemed gunshy and didn't let his hands go. Irrespective of what his opponent allowed him to do it didn't look like he was anywhere near as aggressive as he should have been. If his maximum level of performance turned out to be lower than people thought it would be there would be an argument to say he was overhyped. I think the disappointment is because he didn't give the impression he had bad intentions as they say.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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Here's the problems with boxing:

1. The number of people that are "smart" about the sport is far less than the number of people or journalists that pay attention to it. "Smart" being able to look at two fighters of near equal caliber and determining who can win and why.
2. Matchmaking. To be a good promoter/manager, you have to be good at #1 to know who your guy can face and will short of a fluke always win. This means guys are intentionally kept away from styles and fights that can give them problems. As long as your promoter is the one with the most money, you'll find your way to a title shot with an undefeated record. If your promoter doesn't think you have it after a certain point, he'll sell off your record for a big payday to be the loser.
3. Hype. This is all boxing is is hype. Hype = money, and since the sport is ran by promoters, they want money. When you get to the top level of the sport you can only fight once or twice a year. That means there's tons of down time in the middle where all anyone does is talk shit about "my fighter beats your fighter".

So the sport is based around heavily protected guys with long periods of down time between fights, or unless you're one of those "smart" people in #1 that for example in the hours before the fight bet heavily on Usyk, we really don't know how these guys will do when push comes to shove and contests will play out. Joshua has lost to 2 of the last 3 opponents he's faced. Wilder meanwhile is looking to avenge a loss where he got dominated. I think if Wilder loses, that's the next natural fight is Wilder/Joshua where the loser is done as a draw and the winner can use the name win to get back on top.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Willie Falloon »

Nah, fudge wilder. Next summer has to be fury vs Joshua regardless of belts.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Hellraiser »

CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:18 pm AJ needed to be overrated and marketed. He brought back heavyweight boxing. Current heavyweights owe him big time. He deserved his belts and money.
:lol:
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Hellraiser »

eldanielfire wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:05 am
simon7 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:59 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:49 pm
franch fan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:47 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:47 pm

He won 3 heavyweight belts. No one claimed he was the greatest ever. What's overrated about him?
He's been overrated cause people were saying he was the new Lennox Lewis or Holifield when he is nowhere near their class.
Who said that then?
I don't get the hype around AJ either, after the fight they were talking about him still going down as one of the great heavyweights on DAZN (I think). He is a good heavyweight but doesn't belong in the conversation for great heavyweight at the moment. The only one that may of the current crop is Tyson Fury but he still needs to get some more notable wins under his belt to enter that select group.
Joshua neat the greatest heavyweight of the last generation and won 3 heavyweight belts and was a technicality away from fighting for the 4th in the biggest fight in a long time. Any hype Joshua had was earned and lived up to or damn close enough. Argue how great he is, but you can't claim he hasn't made some immense achievements. Ergo he lived up to the hype.
Bollocks. He got curated through a bunch of bums, has beens, and over the hill quality.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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I didn't see the fight live and have only seen highlights but what I've seen he just seemed unbelievably passive and gun shy. Fair play to Usyk who looks to be a tremendous boxer but Joshua looked almost disinterested. Where was the fire to try and win? He must have known he was behind and needed a knockout in the later rounds but he didn't seem to fire up and try for it. Can he learn from this and get fired up for the rematch or do you 'experts' see much the same outcome?
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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Hellraiser wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:18 pm
Bollocks. He got curated through a bunch of bums, has beens, and over the hill quality.
The majority of his last 10 opponents have been world champions when they fought him or their only loss had been for a world title or they were undefeated when they fought him. Who is it you think he avoided ?

BTW
Have a look through the records of the last 10 opponents for Fury and Wilder and tell me they stack up. With Fury if you take away Wilder and Vlad all his other fights are against the kind of people with records Joshua was taking on as a novice before he won the title.
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message #2527204
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:44 pm I didn't see the fight live and have only seen highlights but what I've seen he just seemed unbelievably passive and gun shy. Fair play to Usyk who looks to be a tremendous boxer but Joshua looked almost disinterested. Where was the fire to try and win? He must have known he was behind and needed a knockout in the later rounds but he didn't seem to fire up and try for it. Can he learn from this and get fired up for the rematch or do you 'experts' see much the same outcome?
He'll get fired up. And probably train for more than a week. Pointless being undefeated if no-one will fight you.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by Willie Falloon »

message #2527204 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:36 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:44 pm I didn't see the fight live and have only seen highlights but what I've seen he just seemed unbelievably passive and gun shy. Fair play to Usyk who looks to be a tremendous boxer but Joshua looked almost disinterested. Where was the fire to try and win? He must have known he was behind and needed a knockout in the later rounds but he didn't seem to fire up and try for it. Can he learn from this and get fired up for the rematch or do you 'experts' see much the same outcome?

He'll get fired up. And probably train for more than a week. Pointless being undefeated if no-one will fight you.
His corner are to blame as well. Kept telling him to gmkeep his arm up and be wary of Usyks punch, instead of telling him to attack more. The worried him too much.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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Hellraiser wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:16 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:18 pm AJ needed to be overrated and marketed. He brought back heavyweight boxing. Current heavyweights owe him big time. He deserved his belts and money.
:lol:
Consider Ortiz v Wilder title fight, Ortiz was only getting $500k. Joseph Parker got around $12m v Joshua.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by eldanielfire »

CrazyIslander wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:14 pm
Hellraiser wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:16 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:18 pm AJ needed to be overrated and marketed. He brought back heavyweight boxing. Current heavyweights owe him big time. He deserved his belts and money.
:lol:
Consider Ortiz v Wilder title fight, Ortiz was only getting $500k. Joseph Parker got around $12m v Joshua.
It's disingenuous of those who are saying Joshua hasn't been a big factor in biging up the interest in the heavyweight division in recent years. Sure some of it is luck of timing with the Fury and Wilder runs as well and Joshua overcoming the bets of the last generation at just the right time. But it has happened.
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Re: Anthony Joshua

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And in a surprise to no one...
Boxing bouts for medals at the 2016 Olympics were fixed by “complicit and compliant” referees and judges, an investigation reported on Thursday (Friday NZT).

Investigator Richard McLaren was appointed by the International Boxing Association, known as AIBA, and found AIBA officials selected referees and judges to ensure that bouts could be manipulated in Olympic qualifying and at the Rio de Janeiro Games. He also found signs the 2012 Olympics in London were affected.

“Key personnel decided that the rules did not apply to them,” said McLaren, who added there was a “culture of fear, intimidation and obedience in the ranks of the referees and judges.”

There isn't a final figure on how many fights could have been affected. The investigation identified “in the vicinity of 11, perhaps less, and that's counting the ones that we know were manipulated, problem bouts or suspicious bouts,” including fights for medals, McLaren said.

Senior AIBA officials used their power to select referees and judges and turned the commission which was supposed to ensure they were assigned fairly into “a mere rubber stamp”, McLaren said.

“This informal structure allowed complicit and compliant referees and judges ... to be assigned to specific bouts to ensure the manipulation of outcomes,” he said.

The referees and judges who were selected generally “knew what was going on” or else were “incompetent” and willing to ignore signs of manipulation, and qualifying events for the Rio Olympics were used to filter out honest referees and judges, McLaren alleged.

Referees and judges were told who should win a bout in the morning before a day of fights at the Olympics, including in a lounge area “protected from prying eyes,” McLaren said. He wasn't able to identify who was ultimately responsible for running the match-fixing scheme and selecting winners.

During the 2016 Olympics, there was a spotlight on judging after a contentious fight between Ireland’s Michael Conlan and Russian Vladimir Nikitin. After the judges awarded the fight to Nikitin, Conlan showed them his middle fingers and accused Russia and AIBA of corruption. McLaren's report didn't offer a verdict on whether the result of that fight was fixed.

McLaren's report includes witness testimony of discussions at the 2016 Olympics over a bribe of up to US$250,000 for a Mongolian boxer to beat a fighter from France in a semifinal bout.

The witness alleged a man from Kazakhstan working as a referee and judge asked for the money in exchange for fixing the fight in Mongolia's favour. No bribe was paid and the Mongolian boxer lost with “very unusual scoring” which was identical on all five judges' scorecards, the report states.

The London Olympics in 2012 may have been manipulated, too. The report states then-AIBA president CK Wu instructed executive director Ho Kim to ensure Turkish fighters qualified for the London Games because their country hosted an expensive qualifying competition, citing evidence from Kim.


Wu also allegedly urged officials that Azerbaijan should not win gold medals in boxing at the 2012 Olympics. This was after the BBC broadcast a documentary suggesting Azerbaijan's medal hopes might benefit from a recent loan to AIBA from an Azerbaijani company. Azerbaijan won only two bronze medals in boxing in London.

AIBA has been led by Russian businessman Umar Kremlev since December and says it has reformed how bouts are judged since 2016, when ex-president Wu was in charge. Wu was a member of the International Olympic Committee until stepping down last year.

“AIBA hired Professor McLaren because we have nothing to hide,” Kremlev said in a statement.

“We will work to incorporate any helpful recommendations that are made. We will also take legal advice with regard to what action is possible against those found to have participated in any manipulation. There should be no place in the AIBA family for anyone who has fixed a fight.”

None of the referees or judges from 2016 were in their posts for this year's Olympics in Tokyo after being suspended by AIBA. This year's Olympic tournaments were organised not by AIBA but directly by the IOC, which remains unhappy with how AIBA is run.

The IOC said this month it has “deepest concerns” about AIBA and that it received complaints about refereeing and judging at two major AIBA events this year, the Asian championships and world youth championships.

The IOC has so far refused to confirm boxing will stay on the Olympic program at the 2024 Games in Paris.

McLaren's investigation will now broaden to examine more recent tournaments, including those this year, and whether there was corruption in AIBA management going back decades.
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booji boy
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by booji boy »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:01 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:14 pm
Hellraiser wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:16 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:18 pm AJ needed to be overrated and marketed. He brought back heavyweight boxing. Current heavyweights owe him big time. He deserved his belts and money.
:lol:
Consider Ortiz v Wilder title fight, Ortiz was only getting $500k. Joseph Parker got around $12m v Joshua.
It's disingenuous of those who are saying Joshua hasn't been a big factor in bigging up the interest in the heavyweight division in recent years. Sure some of it is luck of timing with the Fury and Wilder runs as well and Joshua overcoming the bets of the last generation at just the right time. But it has happened.
I agree. His 2017 fight with Klitchko perked my interest and brought me back to the sport. And it was a great fight which was a bonus. Not a snoozefest like his one sided wins over Parker and Ruiz in the rematch. I had completely lost interest in boxing for most of the previous 10 years. It was the first and only time I saw either of the Klitchko brothers fight. I'm disappointed I missed this fight but I'm looking forward to Fury Wilder III.
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eldanielfire
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Re: Anthony Joshua

Post by eldanielfire »

booji boy wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:20 am
eldanielfire wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:01 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:14 pm
Hellraiser wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:16 pm
CrazyIslander wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:18 pm AJ needed to be overrated and marketed. He brought back heavyweight boxing. Current heavyweights owe him big time. He deserved his belts and money.
:lol:
Consider Ortiz v Wilder title fight, Ortiz was only getting $500k. Joseph Parker got around $12m v Joshua.
It's disingenuous of those who are saying Joshua hasn't been a big factor in bigging up the interest in the heavyweight division in recent years. Sure some of it is luck of timing with the Fury and Wilder runs as well and Joshua overcoming the bets of the last generation at just the right time. But it has happened.
I agree. His 2017 fight with Klitchko perked my interest and brought me back to the sport. And it was a great fight which was a bonus. Not a snoozefest like his one sided wins over Parker and Ruiz in the rematch. I had completely lost interest in boxing for most of the previous 10 years. It was the first and only time I saw either of the Klitchko brothers fight. I'm disappointed I missed this fight but I'm looking forward to Fury Wilder III.
yeah. Since maybe the Lennox Lewis era heavyweight boxing has been due. As great as Klitchko was, that era of him and various eastern european/Russian champions dominating was respected but never exciting. It didn't help the Klitchko brothers never appeared to consider fighting each other, which could have ignited the division in their time.

It was of course compounded down the division with an unlikable scumbag like Mayweather never fighting anybody when the iron was hot until he was sure they were past their best. So the most Mayweather got was people hate watching his fights hoping he would lose.

But in any sport it's cyclic I suppose.
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