NZ Politics Thread

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JPNZ
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JPNZ »

Monkey Magic wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:04 am
JPNZ wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:22 pm
Monkey Magic wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:22 pm 16k first doses to get sorted, then 3 weeks to wait for their second dose. In Auckland we've got another month at least to get to the traffic light
Yep at least 5-6 weeks. There will be some leakage where not all 1st Vaxxed will bother to have their 2nd on time. There will be another announcement on 29th November anyway.

Also worth noting that I believe once in the red light Auckland still has a hard border.
Can we just deport a random 12k people out of auckland to get there. How many followers does Brian tamaki have?
Actual numbers for Auckland's 3 DHBs from the MOH just now..
Ministry of Health data released today shows that to hit 90 per cent of first doses across the three DHBS another 18,032 people need to be vaccinated while another 225,836 second doses were needed to get to 90 per cent.

Director general of health Ashley Bloomfield has previously said about 5 per cent of those who got their first dose did not go back for a second.
EDIT:

129 New cases today, 120 in Auckland and 9 in the Waikato
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RuggaBugga
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

JB1981 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 pm Does the Auckland border remain until they enter the traffic light stage -i.e. until the review at the end of November?

This must be the most excitement about traffic lights since a childhood trip to Cobb & Co.

Image
:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
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MungoMan
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by MungoMan »

RuggaBugga wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm
JB1981 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 pm Does the Auckland border remain until they enter the traffic light stage -i.e. until the review at the end of November?

This must be the most excitement about traffic lights since a childhood trip to Cobb & Co.

Image
:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
mmmmmm. Battered foreskins...
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

“Especially with regard to further decisions around how the use of these could impact eligibility for financial support.”

Finance Minister Grant Robertson on Friday said one of the issues the Government was working through was what to do in terms of businesses who decided not to be part of the vaccine certificate regime.

“If we used the current settings based on revenue drops we may well end up supporting them, but not those who are using certificates,” Robertson said.

“It is my personal preference that any payment will not be made available to those businesses that should be operating a vaccine certificate regime but choose not to, however this requires further work to be operational.”
I think that is an excellent idea. :thumbup:
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Here here. We shouldn't be encouraging those who reject science and the evidence because it's not what they want to hear.
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True Blue
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by True Blue »

RuggaBugga wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm
JB1981 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 pm Does the Auckland border remain until they enter the traffic light stage -i.e. until the review at the end of November?

This must be the most excitement about traffic lights since a childhood trip to Cobb & Co.

Image
:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
The traffic light and those chips were my fav thing about the place as a kid in the 80s. Couldn't care less about the actual meal.
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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

True Blue wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:09 am
RuggaBugga wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm
JB1981 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 pm Does the Auckland border remain until they enter the traffic light stage -i.e. until the review at the end of November?

This must be the most excitement about traffic lights since a childhood trip to Cobb & Co.

Image
:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
The traffic light and those chips were my fav thing about the place as a kid in the 80s. Couldn't care less about the actual meal.
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
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Monkey Magic
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am
True Blue wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:09 am
RuggaBugga wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm
JB1981 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 pm Does the Auckland border remain until they enter the traffic light stage -i.e. until the review at the end of November?

This must be the most excitement about traffic lights since a childhood trip to Cobb & Co.

Image
:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
The traffic light and those chips were my fav thing about the place as a kid in the 80s. Couldn't care less about the actual meal.
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Fudge Cobb & Co, they served me ribs in a cast iron frypan and I burned my wrist on it cause I didn't think it'd be the actual pan they cooked them in.
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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am
True Blue wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:09 am
RuggaBugga wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm
JB1981 wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:24 pm Does the Auckland border remain until they enter the traffic light stage -i.e. until the review at the end of November?

This must be the most excitement about traffic lights since a childhood trip to Cobb & Co.

Image
:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
The traffic light and those chips were my fav thing about the place as a kid in the 80s. Couldn't care less about the actual meal.
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
simon7
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by simon7 »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am
True Blue wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:09 am
RuggaBugga wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm

:lol: Cobb Crunchies ftw
The traffic light and those chips were my fav thing about the place as a kid in the 80s. Couldn't care less about the actual meal.
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

simon7 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am
True Blue wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:09 am

The traffic light and those chips were my fav thing about the place as a kid in the 80s. Couldn't care less about the actual meal.
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

I know of one in Porirua, haven't been there though.
simon7
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by simon7 »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 am
simon7 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
:thumbup: looks like they have an X-rated traffic light now
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Wignu wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:06 am I know of one in Porirua, haven't been there though.
There's still one in Levin, at least there was about 5 years ago when I went there.

Anyway, Cobb & Co is a poor man's Fisherman's Table.
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:29 am
Wignu wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:06 am I know of one in Porirua, haven't been there though.
There's still one in Levin, at least there was about 5 years ago when I went there.

Anyway, Cobb & Co is a poor man's Fisherman's Table.
Nah, Cobb & Co's just Fisherman's Table sans food poisoning :P. Think the one in Levin is closed, haven't seen it on my travels through there recently, but then haven't really looked for it.
Couch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Couch »

Taupo and Porirua Cobb n Co are still open
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Looks like there is one in Christchurch ad well. Although it's described as their "newest" one and not anywhere near where they used to be, which was at the Bush Inn. I suspect this is a case of revival rather than a few survivors.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JB1981 »

Rotorua has one.

Besides the traffic lights and Cobb crunchies, I remember building up a collection of the plastic animals they put on the glasses. I’m another with no real memory of the food :lol: .
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JB1981 »

Fat Old Git wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:02 am Looks like there is one in Christchurch ad well. Although it's described as their "newest" one and not anywhere near where they used to be, which was at the Bush Inn. I suspect this is a case of revival rather than a few survivors.
Captains Mis-steak was our go to rather than Cobb & Co. It was a bonus if you got to sit in the pirate ship and there was the ball-pit while waiting for your meal.
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 am
simon7 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am
And they had the table top video games so you could play while drinking your traffic light and eating those chips.
Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
There is one in Taupo. Haven't been there for a few years but last time I did the meal was pretty decent from memory.
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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:56 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 am
simon7 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:10 am

Since reading this I've realized I have absolutely no memory of the food there, only the drinks and the spacies machine
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
There is one in Taupo. Haven't been there for a few years but last time I did the meal was pretty decent from memory.
Off topic, but is the hole in one on the lake still operating?
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:56 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 am
simon7 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 am
There was one still open in Palmy in the late 00s/early 10s and I'd take my nieces there, and I still have no memory of the food.
There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
There is one in Taupo. Haven't been there for a few years but last time I did the meal was pretty decent from memory.
Off topic, but is the hole in one on the lake still operating?
Yep, as far as I know.
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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:06 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:56 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 am
simon7 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 am

There are still a few dotted around the country, I am planning to go to one next month for a nostalgic meal.
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
There is one in Taupo. Haven't been there for a few years but last time I did the meal was pretty decent from memory.
Off topic, but is the hole in one on the lake still operating?
Yep, as far as I know.
:thumbup:
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Monkey Magic
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:07 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:06 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:56 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 am
Sweet, you can report back to thread about the food! :thumbup:
There is one in Taupo. Haven't been there for a few years but last time I did the meal was pretty decent from memory.
Off topic, but is the hole in one on the lake still operating?
Yep, as far as I know.
:thumbup:

Was running at Easter when I was down there, massive line for it as well.

Also can't believe you'd derail a lively politics thread with random questions about a hole in one outfit
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Monkey Magic wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:50 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:07 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:06 am
UncleFB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 am
booji boy wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:56 am

There is one in Taupo. Haven't been there for a few years but last time I did the meal was pretty decent from memory.
Off topic, but is the hole in one on the lake still operating?
Yep, as far as I know.
:thumbup:

Was running at Easter when I was down there, massive line for it as well.

Also can't believe you'd derail a lively politics thread with random questions about a hole in one outfit
Saw it being towed into the boat harbour a few weeks back but I think that was just routine maintenance. There was a big crowd last time I wandered past.

It was weird during lockdown last year. I walked past it and it was all closed off and abandoned. I was tempted to take a bag of old balls down there and have a hit just to get my golf 'fix' during lockdown. Would have been like that scene in I am Legend where Will Smith was hitting golf balls off the aircraft carrier in post zombie apocalypse New York.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

3 Waters will go ahead with the govt mandating councils join up... legislation will go through the House later this year.

Good thing.
TheMantis96
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheMantis96 »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am Good thing.
The hell it is. At some point in the not too distant future Labour are just going to give a whole bunch of water assets to Maori.

Just like they have forced mandatory Maori representation onto local body politics - democracy in action.

Labour stink to high heaven.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

TheMantis96 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:53 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am Good thing.
The hell it is. At some point in the not too distant future Labour are just going to give a whole bunch of water assets to Maori.

Just like they have forced mandatory Maori representation onto local body politics - democracy in action.

Labour stink to high heaven.
Ah, you again...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101918&p=6976433#p6976433
TheMantis96 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:05 am
guy smiley wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:02 am
Interesting move... Aotearoa NZ officially recognises two languages. That would seem to be illegal to me, a layman with no legal training.
Where? I am well aware of a country called New Zealand. The other place doesn't seem to officially exist.
TheMantis96
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheMantis96 »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:57 am
TheMantis96 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:53 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am Good thing.
The hell it is. At some point in the not too distant future Labour are just going to give a whole bunch of water assets to Maori.

Just like they have forced mandatory Maori representation onto local body politics - democracy in action.

Labour stink to high heaven.
Ah, you again...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101918&p=6976433#p6976433
TheMantis96 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:05 am
guy smiley wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:02 am
Interesting move... Aotearoa NZ officially recognises two languages. That would seem to be illegal to me, a layman with no legal training.
Where? I am well aware of a country called New Zealand. The other place doesn't seem to officially exist.
I'm surprised you recognised anything with your head planted so firmly inside your backside
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

TheMantis96 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:00 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:57 am
TheMantis96 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:53 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am Good thing.
The hell it is. At some point in the not too distant future Labour are just going to give a whole bunch of water assets to Maori.

Just like they have forced mandatory Maori representation onto local body politics - democracy in action.

Labour stink to high heaven.
Ah, you again...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101918&p=6976433#p6976433
TheMantis96 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:05 am
guy smiley wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:02 am
Interesting move... Aotearoa NZ officially recognises two languages. That would seem to be illegal to me, a layman with no legal training.
Where? I am well aware of a country called New Zealand. The other place doesn't seem to officially exist.
I'm surprised you recognised anything with your head planted so firmly inside your backside
Do you open your eyes at night?
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

guy smiley wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:00 am Bit of a reprise of our recent power supply / price debate sparked (sorry) by the blackout back in early August...

https://thekaka.substack.com/p/nz-inc-c ... mpaign=cta

worth a read and a click so I won't quote the whole article...
TLDL & TLDR: The biggest electricity buyers in New Zealand have had enough of a doubling of wholesale electricity prices over the last three years. This week they accused the biggest hydro-power producer of making super-profits. They’re right, and the market should be reformed, but won’t be because the Government has other fish frying and median voters don’t care much.

Meanwhile, those wholesale prices have fallen magically for no particularly clear reason in recent weeks as the publicity around the industry’s failures and this latest report have focused the fleeting attention of politicians on the issue. My bet is they’ll rise right back to the most profitable levels once the latest noise dies down.
But the EPR report was a whitewash

The EPR’s final report in May 2019 “found no evidence of generator-retailers making excessive profits, although data limitations mean we cannot be definitive in this assessment.” It came out against structural separation of generators and retailers, arguing the costs to investor confidence outweighed the benefits.

“Forced separation would also be disruptive, undermine investor confidence and
stall or delay the huge amount of generation investment needed to move to a low-carbon economy. However, the benefits of allowing vertical integration should be shared more widely – hence our recommendation for mandatory market-making.” EPR report.

However, as Pullar-Strecker pointed out, the EPR said in detailed reports to MBIE there were “ongoing questions about whether generators are making excessive profits at the expense of consumers.”

Little has changed since the EPR report came out. The Electricity Authority (EA) is still years away from a permanent market maker solution to improve the confidence of any independent retailers who might want to use the hedging market.

In my view, the EPR was mostly a whitewash which has led to no real change in the industry. The report was written by MBIE officials with Concept Consulting, which is led by former Contact Energy CEO David Hunt and former Contact executive Simon Coates. The EPR panel’s special adviser was former Trustpower CEO Keith Tempest.
So what might happen now?

We’ll watch next for the Electricity Authority’s report into the wholesale market, which is due with Minister Woods next month.

My view is the market is broken from a retail consumer affordability and a carbon zero point of view. I think the first option to look at is structural separation, with the Government’s 51% shares in Meridian, Mercury and Genesis translating into more integrated state control and planning of generation. That allows the climate and affordability objectives to be prioritised over profit and dividends, and for a fair wholesale price to be set that bares some relation to the long-run cost of generation.

It would also allow a lot more freedom for distributors and independent retailers accessing power sold at the long run marginal cost to unleash a wave of distributed solar generation with batteries that improve the resilience and efficiency of the grid.
But will this Govt do it?

My feel is no. Megan Woods is slammed with the housing crisis and the Government has shown no appetite to challenge anything that would endanger its adherence to the Public Finance Act’s requirement the Government run surpluses to repay debt in all but the most extreme situations.

During a Covid recovery, the billions of dollars of dividends from super-profits will be too juicy to give up, and the Government has not seen much political fallout from failing to follow up on its pre-2017 rhetoric favouring consumers and industry reform. The Government has already judged electricity industry reform as too distracting to focus on. Its ham-handed handling of the EPR showed that. Right now, it is dealing with an existential Covid threat, an endemic housing emergency and it is reforming the RMA, DHBs, Three Waters and trying to dream up climate emissions reductions that don’t anger ute owners.

Nothing much will happen, with the issue kicked back into the weeds of the Electricity Authority to allow the gentailers to continue to do what monopolies do: to delay, to deny, to deflect and to distract their way to many more years of profits.
bumpity
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Gordon Bennett wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:35 pm Interesting (short) read about the Meridian - Rio Tinto commercial battle:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/tiwai-point- ... the-people
Newsroom wrote:Tiwai Point smelter owner ‘hasn’t read the tea leaves’ in dry lakes – Meridian
Energy supplier says when it's needed most, Rio Tinto refuses to give power back to the people

Meridian Energy's chief executive has mounted an unprecedented public attack on his biggest customer and the country's largest electricity consumer, the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter.

It comes after Meridian reported reduced 2021 earnings to the sharemarket, in part dragged down by the lower power price paid by Anglo-Australian mining giant Rio Tinto, the smelter owner. The renewable energy company's underlying net profit after tax was $232m, down $84m on the previous year.

In an interview with Newsroom, Meridian chief Neal Barclay indicated the Rio Tinto deal was of greater benefit to the country than to Meridian, by creating time for the Southland economy and the electricity sector to transition to life without the smelter.

Barclay stopped short of saying Rio Tinto was a bad corporate citizen, noting its contribution to the community of Southland – but he did express frustration at the mining company's unwillingness to significantly reduce its load to help the country keep its lights on when the hydro lakes are low.

His criticism is less about the August 9 power blackouts (reducing the smelter's load in Southland then would have done little to address the power shortage in the North Island) and more about Rio Tinto refusing to accept an obligation to significantly reduce its demand for days or weeks at a time.

He revealed that Meridian had told Rio Tinto that if the smelting company wanted to find a way to continue operating in New Zealand, it would have to find a way to make Tiwai Point more flexible.

"We can't have a situation, which is what we've had, where we go into a drought situation, we've got scarcity of energy, and the smelter keeps taking its full load," Barclay said.

"And effectively they're exporting that product offshore. There is technology available in the smelting industry where they can actually reduce the energy they take in, and they can do that effectively, and that would be really helpful in a drought – but they've never been willing to entertain the thought.

"They haven't read the tea leaves, and haven't thought about how they could make that facility work more in sympathy with the electricity sector. Which would actually be worth a lot to them. We would pay them to drop off their usage of energy in a drought. But, like I say, it's just not a subject they've been willing to engage with us on."

To be fair, the smelter agreed in April on voluntarily reduce its power consumption by up to 30.5 MWh per hour to assist through the dry winter, if it wished to help address demand. It reduced its load by around 6 MW by not replacing pots that had been cycled out of circulation, and it agreed to not restart the 50MW Line 4 while the lakes were low. "We are pleased to now be in position to be able to do more to assist New Zealand’s security of supply for all customers should the lake levels not be replenished in the short term," a spokesperson said at the time.

But Meridian says that 30MW was "a relatively small amount" in the context of a 572MW smelter. Any reduction in load was voluntary, not obligatory. The agreement took months to negotiate and so came into force very late in the drought and was ultimately of limited value, the energy firm says.

Four months on, after the power crisis has come to the crunch, Rio Tinto is refusing to comment on Barclay's criticisms, or to answer questions about why it would not accept any obligation to reduce its power consumption when others are forced to turn off the lights.

After putting Meridian over a barrel by publicly threatening in July 2020 to quit New Zealand, Rio Tinto extracted the country's lowest power prices through to the end of 2024, in a deal to avoid suddenly throwing 1000-plus employees and contractors on the slag heap.

Meridian Energy swallowed a $60m per year cut to the price paid by Rio Tinto. The smelter now pays just $35 per megawatt/hr – less than a sixth of the average $224 wholesale price paid this year by other power customers. MBIE figures show residential consumers, by comparison, paid $293 per megawatt hour, including GST.

Rio Tinto reported that lower energy prices contributed to a US$43 million (NZ$61m) improvement to its first half earnings, citing the new agreement for electricity supply to New Zealand Aluminium Smelter.

As Meridian became better able to sell its electricity to the North Island, Barclay warned, that Rio Tinto deal would become marginal. "There might be a year or two when we're effectively taking one for the team."

The four year contract gave the Southland and New Zealand economies time to transition, but there would be little incentive for Meridian to renew it thereafter, he indicated. "Rio Tinto played a commercial card last year by cancelling our contract, and put us into a corner. So we negotiated the extended exit deal. But they've got no guaranteed supply beyond 2024 now; they've lost the option of being able to continue to operate in New Zealand."

Barclay pointed out that global aluminium prices had since gone up on the London Metal Exchange, and the outlook was strong. "I suspect there would be a degree of regret on their side. They've now got a very profitable facility. It's only going to become more competitive in the future because it's got such a green footprint because it gets the vast majority of its energy from renewable sources. On a global stage it will become more and more competitive – that's how it appears to us.

"They may not be able to exist in New Zealand beyond 2024, even if they want to."

Barclay said Meridian's plans for a large hydrogen production facility in Southland, to replace the smelter in 2025, would allow it to reduce demand quickly when the power was needed elsewhere in the country.

That responsiveness would combine with upgrades and changes to Transpower's Southland network and Cook Strait cable, and the construction of a 100MW battery in the North Island to store the hydro electricity and feed it back into the North Island networks as needed.

"Because hydrogen production is a hugely flexible process," Barclay said, "we think if we build that and contract the energy to that producer in the right way, we can get a big chunk of demand that can actually reduce production during dry winters, and give that power back to the rest of the customers in the grid."

The company that has profited most from this year's low hydro lakes appears to be Genesis Energy, which at times has had three of its 250MW coal-powered Rankine units running at Huntly power plant this winter. Coal power is expensive and dirty, so that has hiked up power prices for everyone – not least the environment.

Genesis chief executive Marc England said Meridian was upping the ante in negotiations with Rio Tinto, ahead of the end of the smelter contract in 2024. "I think if Rio have the capacity to pay more, they will pay more," he told Newsroom. "And Neal will supply them. They're too big a customer not too.

"They used to pay roughly $55 per megawatt hour. They're now paying $35. They've got one over Meridian for the time being, but they'll have capacity to pay more, and they will pay more.

"Until Meridian can demonstrate they've got an alternative that's going to pay more, Rio Tinto is going to be very much part of the picture for the next decade. That's my armchair observer view."
and bump
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am 3 Waters will go ahead with the govt mandating councils join up... legislation will go through the House later this year.

Good thing.
So pleased to know that water in my district, Entity B, will only cost $1,220 pa in 2051 versus $7,330 if Nanaia didn't force these changes through. On that basis I expect my water Bill's to go down from $1,440 that they cost right now to about $240 when this change goes through in July 2024.

Nice one Nanaia. :thumbup:
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

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https://www.ea.govt.nz/about-us/media-a ... consumers/
In March 2021 the Electricity Authority announced it would conduct a review into competition in the wholesale electricity market.

The period of the review covers the sustained elevated electricity prices since an unplanned outage at the Pohokura gas facility in Spring 2018 and the announcement in January 2021 of the arrangements to extend operation of the New Zealand Aluminium Smelter (NZAS) at Tiwai by four more years.

The review looked at the structure, conduct and performance of the wholesale electricity market from January 2019 until June 2021.

Today the Authority published:

A detailed Review paper that sets out the methodology used for the review, as well as a set of observations about the competitiveness of the wholesale market; and
An Issues paper that addresses an observation made in the Review paper around the electricity arrangements that extended operation of the NZAS smelter at Tiwai Point – just prior to the Authority launching its review.

“The Authority is concerned that all consumers might be paying too much for their electricity, because Meridian, supported by Contact, appears to have sold electricity to NZAS for $500m less than it cost to produce. The arrangement could be wasteful. The subsidy maintains demand and keeps prices high in the wholesale market. Households might be paying up to $200 more every year,” said James Stevenson-Wallace, Chief Executive of the Electricity Authority.
The review notes that the price the smelter pays for electricity appears to be significantly lower (even adjusting for location) than the forward prices at the time the deals were being made. “Our analysis suggests all generators benefit from NZAS staying because it keeps prices high for all other consumers.” says Mr Stevenson-Wallace.

“The Authority’s focus is to protect the long-term interests of New Zealand electricity consumers. The Issues paper seeks feedback on timely and practical steps it can take to ensure that future contracts between electricity generators and large consumers are efficient.”

The Authority has not found anything unlawful with the arrangement, which was made under current electricity market and competition policy settings. The Authority is looking at the settings and arrangements that allowed the deal to be done.

The Issues paper focuses on the harm from inefficient price discrimination as potentially illustrated by the NZAS arrangements. The Issues paper is seeking feedback on a range of potential steps the Electricity Authority could take under its mandate and powers to ensure that similar future deals are efficiently priced, and consumers have confidence prices reflect supply and demand fundamentals. The Issues paper also notes that other measures – such as bespoke structural solutions – are also available to the government but outside the Authority’s remit. At this stage the Authority thinks these issues are unrelated to generators owning retail businesses.

Addressing the potential issues the NZAS arrangement raises is the first step in responding to the review and we are consulting on all options. The wider review of wholesale market competition signals the continuation of the Authority’s focused programme of work on the wholesale market. The Authority welcomes input from all stakeholders on the review and their views on the actions that should stem from it.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

booji boy wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:12 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:12 am 3 Waters will go ahead with the govt mandating councils join up... legislation will go through the House later this year.

Good thing.
So pleased to know that water in my district, Entity B, will only cost $1,220 pa in 2051 versus $7,330 if Nanaia didn't force these changes through. On that basis I expect my water Bill's to go down from $1,440 that they cost right now to about $240 when this change goes through in July 2024.

Nice one Nanaia. :thumbup:
You don't seem to understand the principle behind projected costs.
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JPNZ
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

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Fat Old Git wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:02 am Looks like there is one in Christchurch ad well. Although it's described as their "newest" one and not anywhere near where they used to be, which was at the Bush Inn. I suspect this is a case of revival rather than a few survivors.
The brand was resurrected a few years ago. They are looking for new locations Nationwide.

Currently open are: Whakatane, Rotorua, Taupo, New Plymouth, Levin, Porirua, Christchurch & Dunedin
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

Maybe electricity shouldn't have been privatised/neoliberalised in the first place? ;)

Still, Aluminium prices are on the way back up, so perhaps NZAS won't be looking to leave after all. In which case, having some really decent plan Bs to keep Rio Tinto honest would be a good way forward. Hydrogen generation, Ammonia production etc.

Even then, replace NZAS with another producer - you still need them to pay at least cost price otherwise the system is still buggered.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Gordon Bennett wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:25 am Maybe electricity shouldn't have been privatised/neoliberalised in the first place? ;)
uh huh :nod:

Same with giving local councils control over water infrastructure and creating District Health Boards.
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:29 am
Gordon Bennett wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:25 am Maybe electricity shouldn't have been privatised/neoliberalised in the first place? ;)
uh huh :nod:

Same with giving local councils control over water infrastructure and creating District Health Boards.
Bring back the Ministry of Works.
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