It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

:lol:
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

Botha Boy wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:19 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:51 pm
Botha Boy wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:12 pm The area under the curve is what to compare ... Sweden has suffered undoubtedly to the same extent as the rest of the other major EU nations, but it is looking good for the next winter season while for the rest of Europe ... ?

Image
The more interesting curve is Spain and the comparison to Poland or the Czech Republic.

If you want to make an argument on herd immunity and that it was an epidemic that was brutal in the first wave to very vulnerable before becoming more normal, there’s the argument.

Sweden is just overly confrontational. The reality is that even if you believe that they have reached a level of immunity, there will still be pockets and regions where there will be susceptible people. Those areas will see ripples of cases (magnified by more testing) and some deaths. That will he seized upon by those who have lost the total plot and just want winners & losers here.
The Spanish data is bizarre over the last few weeks ... it takes a dip for a few weeks and then shoots back up ... why ? ... It looks to be a bit of an outlier or that certainly there is something happening with the data that we are not being made fully aware of.

For Poland and Czechia, there is the same rapid rise in cases now, but you have to ask what are you comparing against ... what was their level of testing capacity back in the Spring and therefore their true level of undetected exposure to the virus ? It is possible that they did an amazing job shielding their population from this virus, but why would the virus respect this geographical area but not the one a few hours drive away. I think the lack of testing capacity is a more likely solution, but I am speculating/can't prove it. And are they over-reporting the current PCR data results out of naivety ?
.
I’m not talking of PCRs alone, it’s looking at two sets of data and comparing.

It’s quite clear that the likes of Poland are suffering significant deaths right now following a rapid rise in cases.

Spain really didn’t have that. Another rise in cases in recent days and we’ll see where that goes but the first big rise was in August with a small increase in deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/spain/

There sounded like a bit of fear for hospitals in September but the % in still represented a fraction of the peak and appeared to be more of a fear of March happening again.

In comparison you look at the Czech Republic.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... -republic/

Low deaths in the “first wave”, they didn’t really experience much. Now the PCRs have exploded but also have deaths rapidly. It very much appears that they are experiencing their epidemic phase with excess deaths. A country of 10m or so getting 100 plus deaths a day that has rapidly risen to that point indicates that. I know in Ireland there is roughly 90 deaths a day normally so day 190 there. 100+ is serious there.

Hard to explain how they avoided it in March/April alright. Maybe the restrictions were brought in in time to avoid the at risk people and it worked.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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towny wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:06 am 99% sure my wife has caught the Big C. She’s had a test and we’ll find out the results in 1-400 days.
From the way she’s coughed her guts up all over this house, I’ve certainly caught myself a bonza viral load. I had lung issues as a kid, so I’m thinking that I’m probably up for a rough couple of weeks or more.

Just quietly between me and you, we checked my life insurance a couple of weeks ago to ensure it covers me living overseas and Covid, etc. It does + regular 5% increases have made it a lot bigger than we thought. I’m a wealthy man, dead.

I’m watching her now. She’s literally touching everything in the house. Should I be suspicious? I caught her looking online at Cartier Lamborghinis. She’s the happiest Covid patient you’ve seen.

😳
Best wishes mate. I hope she doesn't have it, and if she does, I hope you don't get it, and if you do, I hope its mild. Take it easy.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

To add, my 3 year old just walked over to give me a hug. Just coughed in my face.

They’re all f*cking in on it.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by eldanielfire »

towny wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:08 am To add, my 3 year old just walked over to give me a hug. Just coughed in my face.

They’re all f*cking in on it.
Re-write your Will and insurance policy to have no family inheritance or payouts, it's the only way you'll survive.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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towny wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:06 am 99% sure my wife has caught the Big C. She’s had a test and we’ll find out the results in 1-400 days.
From the way she’s coughed her guts up all over this house, I’ve certainly caught myself a bonza viral load. I had lung issues as a kid, so I’m thinking that I’m probably up for a rough couple of weeks or more.

Just quietly between me and you, we checked my life insurance a couple of weeks ago to ensure it covers me living overseas and Covid, etc. It does + regular 5% increases have made it a lot bigger than we thought. I’m a wealthy man, dead.

I’m watching her now. She’s literally touching everything in the house. Should I be suspicious? I caught her looking online at Cartier Lamborghinis. She’s the happiest Covid patient you’ve seen.

😳
M88888, you're brown bread. It has been a pleasure having you with us.

On the bright side, I'm certain hell is much better than, say, NSW.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by koroke hangareka »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:00 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in Sweden doing poorly becaue, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?

In Sweden, the case infection numbers are rising, but the case fatality rate remains extremely low and shows absolutely no sign of returning to what it was during the peak of the pandemic, lag or no lag. That's a good thing and we should all be happy for them.

The pertinent question is, will that (low case fatality rate) also happen in countries that locked down hard and largely nullifed the first wave, or will everyone have to deal with it sooner or later? (assuming no readily available vaccine for 9 billion people anytime soon).
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:42 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in countries that locked down hard and largely nullified the first wave having a hard second wave because, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?
who is doing that?

The unthinking, relatively unscientific, drooling praise of countries that did hard lockdowns compared to the deluge of Sweden-bashing not only in this thread but the wider media, coming mostly from countries who did a hard lockdown, shows that's a pretty stupid retort.
Ah, so you've been led, by a careful, disinterested appraisal of the facts, to regretfully suspect that countries that locked down early will not, ultimately, benefit from doing so.

However those who think that Sweden has followed a sub-optimal strategy are emotionally invested in hoping that the Swedes fail.

Righto.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Botha Boy »

Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:08 am
Botha Boy wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:19 am
Blackrock Bullet wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:51 pm
Botha Boy wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:12 pm The area under the curve is what to compare ... Sweden has suffered undoubtedly to the same extent as the rest of the other major EU nations, but it is looking good for the next winter season while for the rest of Europe ... ?

Image
The more interesting curve is Spain and the comparison to Poland or the Czech Republic.

If you want to make an argument on herd immunity and that it was an epidemic that was brutal in the first wave to very vulnerable before becoming more normal, there’s the argument.

Sweden is just overly confrontational. The reality is that even if you believe that they have reached a level of immunity, there will still be pockets and regions where there will be susceptible people. Those areas will see ripples of cases (magnified by more testing) and some deaths. That will he seized upon by those who have lost the total plot and just want winners & losers here.
The Spanish data is bizarre over the last few weeks ... it takes a dip for a few weeks and then shoots back up ... why ? ... It looks to be a bit of an outlier or that certainly there is something happening with the data that we are not being made fully aware of.

For Poland and Czechia, there is the same rapid rise in cases now, but you have to ask what are you comparing against ... what was their level of testing capacity back in the Spring and therefore their true level of undetected exposure to the virus ? It is possible that they did an amazing job shielding their population from this virus, but why would the virus respect this geographical area but not the one a few hours drive away. I think the lack of testing capacity is a more likely solution, but I am speculating/can't prove it. And are they over-reporting the current PCR data results out of naivety ?
.
I’m not talking of PCRs alone, it’s looking at two sets of data and comparing.

It’s quite clear that the likes of Poland are suffering significant deaths right now following a rapid rise in cases.

Spain really didn’t have that. Another rise in cases in recent days and we’ll see where that goes but the first big rise was in August with a small increase in deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/spain/

There sounded like a bit of fear for hospitals in September but the % in still represented a fraction of the peak and appeared to be more of a fear of March happening again.

In comparison you look at the Czech Republic.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... -republic/

Low deaths in the “first wave”, they didn’t really experience much. Now the PCRs have exploded but also have deaths rapidly. It very much appears that they are experiencing their epidemic phase with excess deaths. A country of 10m or so getting 100 plus deaths a day that has rapidly risen to that point indicates that. I know in Ireland there is roughly 90 deaths a day normally so day 190 there. 100+ is serious there.

Hard to explain how they avoided it in March/April alright. Maybe the restrictions were brought in in time to avoid the at risk people and it worked.
So I have had a look at the Worldometers profiles for various countries in Mittel-Europe. Poland, Czechia, Slovakia and Hungary all show similar use case profiles with relatively few cases in Spring but apparently soaring cases now. These 4 different political units either independently implemented a series of counter-measures that avoided significant impact from the Covid 19 virus in the Spring but are being hit now by the virus or they lacked the PCR testing capacity to track the virus in Spring to the extent required but have installed such capacity since ... I am still persuaded that the latter is more likely to be the case.

And be very careful interpreting Covid19 death statistics. It depends on how deaths are assigned and many countries are assigning folks as COVID deaths if they had had a positive test/diagnosed as having COVID in the previous 28 days. As nearly everyone going into hospital is getting tested, some will test positive but die of what they actually went in for sadly. The UK was found in July to have car crash victims in their Covid death stats as they had had a positive result in the previous 28 days.

Hospital data is the best quality as consultants are not afraid to ask for a test to be redone if it does not tally with the observed symptoms and the PCR testing staff are more experienced in testing and in interpreting results. The docs also look for Covid19 symptoms with CT scans of the lungs looking for fibrosis. I have a few mates who work in this field and they have confirmed a significant increase in Covid19 infections since August but not to anything like suggested by the use case profiles.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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Good work on this topic Botha. :thumbup:
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:35 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:00 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in Sweden doing poorly becaue, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?

In Sweden, the case infection numbers are rising, but the case fatality rate remains extremely low and shows absolutely no sign of returning to what it was during the peak of the pandemic, lag or no lag. That's a good thing and we should all be happy for them.

The pertinent question is, will that (low case fatality rate) also happen in countries that locked down hard and largely nullifed the first wave, or will everyone have to deal with it sooner or later? (assuming no readily available vaccine for 9 billion people anytime soon).
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:42 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in countries that locked down hard and largely nullified the first wave having a hard second wave because, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?
who is doing that?

The unthinking, relatively unscientific, drooling praise of countries that did hard lockdowns compared to the deluge of Sweden-bashing not only in this thread but the wider media, coming mostly from countries who did a hard lockdown, shows that's a pretty stupid retort.
Ah, so you've been led, by a careful, disinterested appraisal of the facts, to regretfully suspect that countries that locked down early will not, ultimately, benefit from doing so.

However those who think that Sweden has followed a sub-optimal strategy are emotionally invested in hoping that the Swedes fail.

Righto.
No, as I've said countless times, I don't know what the right move is, and I don't believe any of us will know for many years. Also, different countries, cultures and populations are different. What works in one place might not work in another place. A hard lockdown might be necessary for New York City, but not so much for Sweden (and tbh, probably not for sparsely populated island nations such as New Zealand and Iceland either). I just don't think we know and I've been consistent saying that from the start, only defending Sweden from the queue of haters lined-up to shit all over her and her methods, when in fact, Sweden really isn't doing half bad, and almost everyone I know is very glad and feels lucky to be here. Actually, scratch that ... everyone I know.

So with that in mind, these stupid tribal opinions from non-experts about x-country are pretty dumb.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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eldanielfire wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:21 am
towny wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:08 am To add, my 3 year old just walked over to give me a hug. Just coughed in my face.

They’re all f*cking in on it.
Re-write your Will and insurance policy to have no family inheritance or payouts, it's the only way you'll survive.
I'll volunteer as a beneficiary for the next couple of years. All proceeds to be used to fund cabals
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Enzedder »

I have read that, by law, you have to turn your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden.
How the hell am I supposed to know when it's raining in Sweden
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Enzedder wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:54 pm I have read that, by law, you have to turn your headlights on when it's raining in Sweden.
How the hell am I supposed to know when it's raining in Sweden
Ha! :) Almost all the cars in Sweden have their head-lights on constantly (as in, you can't turn them off). Some old cars still have the ability to turn off the headlights.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

Wife’s Covid test came back negative. :)
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

towny wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:03 pm Wife’s Covid test came back negative. :)
So it's probably the Bad Aids then.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Farva »

We are still in your will right?
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by UncleFB »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:06 pm
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:35 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:00 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in Sweden doing poorly becaue, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?

In Sweden, the case infection numbers are rising, but the case fatality rate remains extremely low and shows absolutely no sign of returning to what it was during the peak of the pandemic, lag or no lag. That's a good thing and we should all be happy for them.

The pertinent question is, will that (low case fatality rate) also happen in countries that locked down hard and largely nullifed the first wave, or will everyone have to deal with it sooner or later? (assuming no readily available vaccine for 9 billion people anytime soon).
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:42 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in countries that locked down hard and largely nullified the first wave having a hard second wave because, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?
who is doing that?

The unthinking, relatively unscientific, drooling praise of countries that did hard lockdowns compared to the deluge of Sweden-bashing not only in this thread but the wider media, coming mostly from countries who did a hard lockdown, shows that's a pretty stupid retort.
Ah, so you've been led, by a careful, disinterested appraisal of the facts, to regretfully suspect that countries that locked down early will not, ultimately, benefit from doing so.

However those who think that Sweden has followed a sub-optimal strategy are emotionally invested in hoping that the Swedes fail.

Righto.
No, as I've said countless times, I don't know what the right move is, and I don't believe any of us will know for many years. Also, different countries, cultures and populations are different. What works in one place might not work in another place. A hard lockdown might be necessary for New York City, but not so much for Sweden (and tbh, probably not for sparsely populated island nations such as New Zealand and Iceland either). I just don't think we know and I've been consistent saying that from the start, only defending Sweden from the queue of haters lined-up to shit all over her and her methods, when in fact, Sweden really isn't doing half bad, and almost everyone I know is very glad and feels lucky to be here. Actually, scratch that ... everyone I know.

So with that in mind, these stupid tribal opinions from non-experts about x-country are pretty dumb.
Your entire MO in this thread has been to trumpet Sweden's "success", then when someone challenges something about Sweden's method you call them haters and claim you're only defending them from haters, then you say you don't know what the best method is, nobody does, then you finish your post trumpeting Sweden's success.

Then you rinse and repeat every few pages.
Last edited by UncleFB on Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

towny wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:03 pm Wife’s Covid test came back negative. :)
We don't believe you. Send us photos.





















Too far? :blush:
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koroke hangareka
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by koroke hangareka »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:06 pm
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:35 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:00 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in Sweden doing poorly becaue, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?

In Sweden, the case infection numbers are rising, but the case fatality rate remains extremely low and shows absolutely no sign of returning to what it was during the peak of the pandemic, lag or no lag. That's a good thing and we should all be happy for them.

The pertinent question is, will that (low case fatality rate) also happen in countries that locked down hard and largely nullifed the first wave, or will everyone have to deal with it sooner or later? (assuming no readily available vaccine for 9 billion people anytime soon).
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:42 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in countries that locked down hard and largely nullified the first wave having a hard second wave because, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?
who is doing that?

The unthinking, relatively unscientific, drooling praise of countries that did hard lockdowns compared to the deluge of Sweden-bashing not only in this thread but the wider media, coming mostly from countries who did a hard lockdown, shows that's a pretty stupid retort.
Ah, so you've been led, by a careful, disinterested appraisal of the facts, to regretfully suspect that countries that locked down early will not, ultimately, benefit from doing so.

However those who think that Sweden has followed a sub-optimal strategy are emotionally invested in hoping that the Swedes fail.

Righto.
No, as I've said countless times, I don't know what the right move is, and I don't believe any of us will know for many years. Also, different countries, cultures and populations are different. What works in one place might not work in another place. A hard lockdown might be necessary for New York City, but not so much for Sweden (and tbh, probably not for sparsely populated island nations such as New Zealand and Iceland either). I just don't think we know and I've been consistent saying that from the start, only defending Sweden from the queue of haters lined-up to shit all over her and her methods, when in fact, Sweden really isn't doing half bad, and almost everyone I know is very glad and feels lucky to be here. Actually, scratch that ... everyone I know.

So with that in mind, these stupid tribal opinions from non-experts about x-country are pretty dumb.
Haters shitting on Sweden. Yup.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

UncleFB wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:15 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:06 pm
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:35 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:00 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in Sweden doing poorly becaue, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?

In Sweden, the case infection numbers are rising, but the case fatality rate remains extremely low and shows absolutely no sign of returning to what it was during the peak of the pandemic, lag or no lag. That's a good thing and we should all be happy for them.

The pertinent question is, will that (low case fatality rate) also happen in countries that locked down hard and largely nullifed the first wave, or will everyone have to deal with it sooner or later? (assuming no readily available vaccine for 9 billion people anytime soon).
koroke hangareka wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:42 am It's hilarious and disturbing to me that some people have a personal, emotional investment in countries that locked down hard and largely nullified the first wave having a hard second wave because, "the people on that bit of dirt did it different to we did on our bit of dirt". ffs.

Surely we all hope that everyone does well right?
who is doing that?

The unthinking, relatively unscientific, drooling praise of countries that did hard lockdowns compared to the deluge of Sweden-bashing not only in this thread but the wider media, coming mostly from countries who did a hard lockdown, shows that's a pretty stupid retort.
Ah, so you've been led, by a careful, disinterested appraisal of the facts, to regretfully suspect that countries that locked down early will not, ultimately, benefit from doing so.

However those who think that Sweden has followed a sub-optimal strategy are emotionally invested in hoping that the Swedes fail.

Righto.
No, as I've said countless times, I don't know what the right move is, and I don't believe any of us will know for many years. Also, different countries, cultures and populations are different. What works in one place might not work in another place. A hard lockdown might be necessary for New York City, but not so much for Sweden (and tbh, probably not for sparsely populated island nations such as New Zealand and Iceland either). I just don't think we know and I've been consistent saying that from the start, only defending Sweden from the queue of haters lined-up to shit all over her and her methods, when in fact, Sweden really isn't doing half bad, and almost everyone I know is very glad and feels lucky to be here. Actually, scratch that ... everyone I know.

So with that in mind, these stupid tribal opinions from non-experts about x-country are pretty dumb.
Your entire MO in this thread has been to trumpet Sweden's "success", then when someone challenges something about Sweden's method you call them haters and claim you're only defending them from haters, then you say you don't know what the best method is, nobody does, then you finish your post trumpeting Sweden's success.

Then you rinse and repeat every few pages.
Well, that's like, you're opinion, man.

It's also bullshit. Maybe you're just a little defensive?

My "MO" in this thread has been to continually repeat ad nauseum that nobody has a f-cking clue yet what works and what doesn't it, and it will be many years until we do, but maybe the Sweden haters should back off a bit and stop being so ridiculously tribal that they have an emotional identity to their country's lockdown method, because the facts are the Sweden isn't doing half bad. And maybe, just maybe--once again, too early to tell--there's even something to learn there.
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Clogs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

There is something to learn from every nations response.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Clogs wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:06 am There is something to learn from every nations response.
Something positive to learn, I meant.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Clogs »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:20 am
Clogs wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:06 am There is something to learn from every nations response.
Something positive to learn, I meant.

So did I. But we can also learn from the negatives. As long as people are not playing politics. Sadly not too many are keen on learning/understanding and are just playing politics.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Ted. »

Botha Boy wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:09 pm
Stop, just look at the data than just picking an article that supports your position. Remember there is a massive drive to discredit Sweden as to accept what they have done means everyone else has been an idiot.

I can do this too. This is a Swedish doctor working in frontline care ...

https://t.co/qNUsNoyyaJ?amp=1

Hmm, Botha Boy, one of several people on this thread hell bent on defending a position regardless of the odds staked against them, comes up with a doctor who definitely isn't a quake, to refute that hot bed of misinformation and bad data, Time.

Keep up the good work, you brave brave things. :thumbup:
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

Ted. wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:48 am
Botha Boy wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:09 pm
Stop, just look at the data than just picking an article that supports your position. Remember there is a massive drive to discredit Sweden as to accept what they have done means everyone else has been an idiot.

I can do this too. This is a Swedish doctor working in frontline care ...

https://t.co/qNUsNoyyaJ?amp=1

Hmm, Botha Boy, one of several people on this thread hell bent on defending a position regardless of the odds staked against them, comes up with a doctor who definitely isn't a quake, to refute that hot bed of misinformation and bad data, Time.

Keep up the good work, you brave brave things. :thumbup:

Botha boy has been nothing but even handed and open, with accurate information etc. You’re the one dismissing information and data.
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Big Nipper
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Big Nipper »

Ted. wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:48 am
Botha Boy wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:09 pm
Stop, just look at the data than just picking an article that supports your position. Remember there is a massive drive to discredit Sweden as to accept what they have done means everyone else has been an idiot.

I can do this too. This is a Swedish doctor working in frontline care ...

https://t.co/qNUsNoyyaJ?amp=1

Hmm, Botha Boy, one of several people on this thread hell bent on defending a position regardless of the odds staked against them, comes up with a doctor who definitely isn't a quake, to refute that hot bed of misinformation and bad data, Time.

Keep up the good work, you brave brave things. :thumbup:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I still cannot believe how these fools parade around calling BS on lockdown effectiveness
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

Big Nipper wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:00 pm
Ted. wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:48 am
Botha Boy wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:09 pm
Stop, just look at the data than just picking an article that supports your position. Remember there is a massive drive to discredit Sweden as to accept what they have done means everyone else has been an idiot.

I can do this too. This is a Swedish doctor working in frontline care ...

https://t.co/qNUsNoyyaJ?amp=1

Hmm, Botha Boy, one of several people on this thread hell bent on defending a position regardless of the odds staked against them, comes up with a doctor who definitely isn't a quake, to refute that hot bed of misinformation and bad data, Time.

Keep up the good work, you brave brave things. :thumbup:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I still cannot believe how these fools parade around calling BS on lockdown effectiveness


No one questions the effectiveness you thicko. They question the balance of the measures vs the other issues it causes, and of course what happens when we unlock.
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

The issue with lockdowns is how long they need to go on to be effective and whether they're worth the hit to other areas of health and the economy.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

CM11 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:09 pm The issue with lockdowns is how long they need to go on to be effective and whether they're worth the hit to other areas of health and the economy.


And dare we say it personal freedom...
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Big Nipper »

bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:12 pm
CM11 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:09 pm The issue with lockdowns is how long they need to go on to be effective and whether they're worth the hit to other areas of health and the economy.


And dare we say it personal freedom...
I think it is a fair compromise to restrict our freedom a slight bit in order to curb a disease with no known cure. But then again you are an edgy, contrarian racist scumbag so I would not expect you to understand
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

Big Nipper wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:18 pm
bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:12 pm
CM11 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:09 pm The issue with lockdowns is how long they need to go on to be effective and whether they're worth the hit to other areas of health and the economy.


And dare we say it personal freedom...
I think it is a fair compromise to restrict our freedom a slight bit in order to curb a disease with no known cure. But then again you are an edgy, contrarian racist scumbag so I would not expect you to understand


“I think”.....

There’s your major problem right there. Did you take lots of head knocks when you were in the racist gangs n stuff? This could explain the issue.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Big nipper, if it was just individual personal freedom that was the issue then you'd have a point. But it isn't. It's people's livelihoods and health.

In Ireland, a small enough population, we're already down 100k cervical smears. So that's a percentage of cervical cancer that will advance to a serious stage. We have loads of existing cancer patients not being monitored properly so more reoccurring cancers missed.

Economically, suicides track unemployment. So add them to your fatalities.

Covid is serious and needs to be taken seriously but people need to stop referring to lockdowns as just an inconvenience to save lives. The ramifications are not inconsequential and not just money v health.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by 6.Jones »

The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.


“Life is normal”

“We have closed our borders”

Ffs
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Big Nipper »

bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:34 pm
6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.


“Life is normal”

“We have closed our borders”

Ffs
Jesus Christ you are a thick plum, fudge you
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

Big Nipper wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:36 pm
bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:34 pm
6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.


“Life is normal”

“We have closed our borders”

Ffs
Jesus Christ you are a thick plum, fudge you


You’ll be shaving your head and kicking mine in soon right?
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by 6.Jones »

bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:34 pm
6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.


“Life is normal”

“We have closed our borders”

Ffs
I'll make it plain. No one has Covid. No one is dying of Covid. And we have strong economic growth. You can still leave and get in. You just have to have a good reason - drinking lager out of each others' front bottoms in Bali isn't a good reason - and quarantine for 14 days when you do. We can still go to restaurants and socialise in an unlimited way. No one needs to wear masks. What's wrong with that picture?

You think open borders, masks, deaths and mass unemployment is better, because you're free?
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by bimboman »

6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:44 pm
bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:34 pm
6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.


“Life is normal”

“We have closed our borders”

Ffs
I'll make it plain. No one has Covid. No one is dying of Covid. And we have strong economic growth. You can still leave and get in. You just have to have a good reason - drinking lager out of each others' front bottoms in Bali isn't a good reason - and quarantine for 14 days when you do. What's wrong with that picture?


“A good reason” , as decided by the state....

Let’s not keep pretending the new normal is right. While you say strong economic growth 10’s of millions are re entering absolute poverty and liberty is being taken away across the west.

There’s plenty wrong with the picture.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by 6.Jones »

bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:47 pm
6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:44 pm
bimboman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:34 pm
6.Jones wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:31 pm The poster child for lockdowns is Western Australia. I'm not being a fanboi, only a satisfied beneficiary. We had a particularly stringent lockdown, with $50k fines for crossing prohibited borders. With no influx of people, the virus was controlled and then disappeared. Now there's no virus, and we're maintaining strict border controls, in the face of pressure from the national government to relax them. And there's no economic downturn. Life is normal. The downside of course is that when we open our borders the virus will come flooding back in. But we can wait until a vaccine is developed. There's no obvious reason why we should experience it here.


“Life is normal”

“We have closed our borders”

Ffs
I'll make it plain. No one has Covid. No one is dying of Covid. And we have strong economic growth. You can still leave and get in. You just have to have a good reason - drinking lager out of each others' front bottoms in Bali isn't a good reason - and quarantine for 14 days when you do. What's wrong with that picture?


“A good reason” , as decided by the state....

Let’s not keep pretending the new normal is right. While you say strong economic growth 10’s of millions are re entering absolute poverty and liberty is being taken away across the west.

There’s plenty wrong with the picture.
My point is it's not happening here, and that our approach might therefore be best.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by 6.Jones »

To be clear, I'm not saying it's best for parochial reasons. I thought New Zealand's was the best, but this model seems better. I just happen to be lucky enough to live here.
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