It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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Anonymous 1
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:49 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:14 am
towny wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:52 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:07 am
CM11 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:11 pm Sweden don't update every day so it's not always clear what their daily number is.

They added 1000 to their total in November so an average of 33/day.
You can see why some people would rather compare Sweden to the UK or Belgium than their Nordic neighbours
More than 1,000 Swedes have died from coronavirus in the last month, more than Finland, Norway and Iceland have seen during the entire pandemic
Perhaps because of the comparable demographics and density? You’ve been told many times that the make-up of Sweden and Norway are poles apart. Do you think it’s stupidity or obstinance that makes you continue on the same course regardless of what happens along the way?
Alright for the Swedes to compare themselves to their near neighbours because they felt the countries were similar enough for the modelling to apply to them but bogus for anyone else to do it. Get real
“One point would be to keep schools open to reach herd immunity faster,” Tegnell commented. Salminen replied that the Finnish health agency had considered this but rejected it because “over time, the children are still going to spread the infection” to other age groups.

Finland’s modelling suggested closing schools would reduce the spread of Covid-19 among elderly people by about 10%, Salminen said in the email. Tegnell replied: “10% might be worth it?
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. You're such an idealogue. I don't know why you're so emotionally invested in what Sweden does anyway.

FWIW, the email exchange ended with all sides agreeing herd immunity was not a viable goal, and Sweden did close schools.
In other emails, the chief epidemiologist asks Johan Giesecke, one of his predecessors and now a paid consultant to the Swedish public health agency, to model what would happen if the virus was allowed to run through the population, and Giesecke suggests senior high schools could be reopened after Easter.


Separately, the daily Aftonbladet said Tegnell appeared to have deleted several emails in a batch of more than 200 from January to April that it had requested. Among the emails, it said, were parts of conversations with government employees, health experts and Giesecke. It is not clear when the emails were deleted.
The innocent deleting of emails
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:49 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:14 am
towny wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:52 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:07 am
CM11 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:11 pm Sweden don't update every day so it's not always clear what their daily number is.

They added 1000 to their total in November so an average of 33/day.
You can see why some people would rather compare Sweden to the UK or Belgium than their Nordic neighbours
More than 1,000 Swedes have died from coronavirus in the last month, more than Finland, Norway and Iceland have seen during the entire pandemic
Perhaps because of the comparable demographics and density? You’ve been told many times that the make-up of Sweden and Norway are poles apart. Do you think it’s stupidity or obstinance that makes you continue on the same course regardless of what happens along the way?
Alright for the Swedes to compare themselves to their near neighbours because they felt the countries were similar enough for the modelling to apply to them but bogus for anyone else to do it. Get real
“One point would be to keep schools open to reach herd immunity faster,” Tegnell commented. Salminen replied that the Finnish health agency had considered this but rejected it because “over time, the children are still going to spread the infection” to other age groups.

Finland’s modelling suggested closing schools would reduce the spread of Covid-19 among elderly people by about 10%, Salminen said in the email. Tegnell replied: “10% might be worth it?
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. You're such an idealogue. I don't know why you're so emotionally invested in what Sweden does anyway.

FWIW, the email exchange ended with all sides agreeing herd immunity was not a viable goal, and Sweden did close schools.
Only the higher level schools were closed. Under 16s have been going throughout.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

:lol: You mong.
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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How rude.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

Sweden closed schools? Er....
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

CM11 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:14 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:49 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:14 am
towny wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:52 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:07 am
You can see why some people would rather compare Sweden to the UK or Belgium than their Nordic neighbours

Perhaps because of the comparable demographics and density? You’ve been told many times that the make-up of Sweden and Norway are poles apart. Do you think it’s stupidity or obstinance that makes you continue on the same course regardless of what happens along the way?
Alright for the Swedes to compare themselves to their near neighbours because they felt the countries were similar enough for the modelling to apply to them but bogus for anyone else to do it. Get real
“One point would be to keep schools open to reach herd immunity faster,” Tegnell commented. Salminen replied that the Finnish health agency had considered this but rejected it because “over time, the children are still going to spread the infection” to other age groups.

Finland’s modelling suggested closing schools would reduce the spread of Covid-19 among elderly people by about 10%, Salminen said in the email. Tegnell replied: “10% might be worth it?
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. You're such an idealogue. I don't know why you're so emotionally invested in what Sweden does anyway.

FWIW, the email exchange ended with all sides agreeing herd immunity was not a viable goal, and Sweden did close schools.
Only the higher level schools were closed. Under 16s have been going throughout.
The data I saw showed that teachers had lower than average inflections than the general population, but the infection rate rose as the kids got older.

We have Covid everywhere here but none of the teachers at my kids primary school or nursery have been hit yet.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Fat Albert »

Code: Select all

Data from Swedish Statistics Central Bureau

    Total reported Deaths    Anomaly compared   Covid    Death Anomaly            
           in Sweden 2020   2015-2019 average  Deaths  Covid extracted

Jan 1st – Mar 14th  19063               -1411       4            -1415
Mar 15- Jun 30th    31110                5521    5479               42
Jul 1st – Nov 15th  30956                -540     518            -1171

Fewer people died in the first 10.5 months of 2020 
than the average number of deaths 2015 through 2019.

It was safer in Sweden with Covid in 2020 than it without it...
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Fat Albert wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:57 pm

Code: Select all

Data from Swedish Statistics Central Bureau

    Total reported Deaths    Anomaly compared   Covid    Death Anomaly            
           in Sweden 2020   2015-2019 average  Deaths  Covid extracted

Jan 1st – Mar 14th  19063               -1411       4            -1415
Mar 15- Jun 30th    31110                5521    5479               42
Jul 1st – Nov 15th  30956                -540     518            -1171

Fewer people died in the first 10.5 months of 2020 
than the average number of deaths 2015 through 2019.

It was safer in Sweden with Covid in 2020 than it without it...
Is that not saying there were about 3.5k more deaths this year compared to the average?

This site tracks normal ranges and Sweden certainly spiked in the first wave and is having a mini spike currently.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps ... by-country
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Muttonbirds »

Finland ready to help its anti-lockdown neighbour with hospital beds. Norway noticeably quiet.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- ... 2OQROZVKM/
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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Hang in there Swedes
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Botha Boy
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Botha Boy »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:09 am Finland ready to help its anti-lockdown neighbour with hospital beds. Norway noticeably quiet.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- ... 2OQROZVKM/
Thank God, New Zealand spotted this from the other side of the world ... no-one else did ... :-P :lol:

Sweden have run out of ICU capacity allegedly but they have half the ICU loading than earlier in the year and in a downward curve.

Image


Be careful what you read on the interweb ... a lot of false information out there ... :lol:
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Blackrock Bullet »

There's delay in both of the last graphs but the ICU can't be fudged. I've seen even the most hung up on Sweden acknowledging that.
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm Hang in there Swedes
:lol: As if you care. You have a vested interest in seeing Sweden do as badly as possible just so it would give you some kind of personal validation.

The graph in Sweden follows the same trend as virtually everywhere else in Europe.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Muttonbirds wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:09 am Finland ready to help its anti-lockdown neighbour with hospital beds. Norway noticeably quiet.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- ... 2OQROZVKM/
That is a very bad piece of journalism. Some hack basically spouting "we are the best" cheer-leady nonsense based on the speculations of one person with photographs of "no lockdown Sweden" that obviously come from the middle of the f-cking summer and probably even pre-covid considering there's barely any daylight now and nobody in their right mind would go out wearing those clothes.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm Hang in there Swedes
:lol: As if you care. You have a vested interest in seeing Sweden do as badly as possible just so it would give you some kind of personal validation.

The graph in Sweden follows the same trend as virtually everywhere else in Europe.
I'd much prefer it if Sweden told Tegnell and the let me die brigade to piss off. However they didn't and they are where they are. Stay safe Mong
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:22 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm Hang in there Swedes
:lol: As if you care. You have a vested interest in seeing Sweden do as badly as possible just so it would give you some kind of personal validation.

The graph in Sweden follows the same trend as virtually everywhere else in Europe.
I'd much prefer it if Sweden told Tegnell and the let me die brigade to piss off. However they didn't and they are where they are. Stay safe Mong
Why? If the people of Sweden (or anywhere else) are willing to take the risk and or sacriice for the sake of their personal freedom (or whatever other reason), why would you wish they were forced to do otherwise?

For the record, Tegnell & "the brigade" have repeatedly stressed the importance of social distancing, working from home if you are able, etc. they have just not enforced it by law, and I don't think the Swedish system even allows them to do that; and the trend here is broadly the same as in the rest of Europe. There are plenty of places that are doing worse than Sweden, but all the focus is on Sweden, particularly from within other countries that chose starkly different strategies. Personally I find that kind of nationalistic cheer-leading quite off putting. There's plenty of other places doing badly that they could concentrate on.

That said, it does appear that Tegnell has f-cked up here. Maybe he's been just a wee bit arrogant. I can't for the life of me understand why he won't recommend at least that everyone wear masks. That just makes no sense at all ... I mean surely wearing a mask won't make it worse and it seems a matter of common sense that it's better than nothing.

And thankyou for your best wishes. I will certainly try and stay safe. I have been under voluntary lock-down (like the vast majority of Swedes) since the middle of autumn when cases started rising again and always wear a mask and take extra precautions if I need to go out (grocery shopping or whatever).
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:00 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:22 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm Hang in there Swedes
:lol: As if you care. You have a vested interest in seeing Sweden do as badly as possible just so it would give you some kind of personal validation.

The graph in Sweden follows the same trend as virtually everywhere else in Europe.
I'd much prefer it if Sweden told Tegnell and the let em die brigade to piss off. However they didn't and they are where they are. Stay safe Mong
Why? If the people of Sweden (or anywhere else) are willing to take the risk and or sacriice for the sake of their personal freedom (or whatever other reason), why would you wish they were forced to do otherwise?

For the record, Tegnell & "the brigade" have repeatedly stressed the importance of social distancing, working from home if you are able, etc. they have just not enforced it by law, and I don't think the Swedish system even allows them to do that; and the trend here is broadly the same as in the rest of Europe. There are plenty of places that are doing worse than Sweden, but all the focus is on Sweden, particularly from within other countries that chose starkly different strategies. Personally I find that kind of nationalistic cheer-leading quite off putting. There's plenty of other places doing badly that they could concentrate on.

That said, it does appear that Tegnell has f-cked up here. Maybe he's been just a wee bit arrogant. I can't for the life of me understand why he won't recommend at least that everyone wear masks. That just makes no sense at all ... I mean surely wearing a mask won't make it worse and it seems a matter of common sense that it's better than nothing.
Why are you talking about "forced". Sometimes you seem to need help
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Botha Boy »

Data is better than emotion, right ... :D

There is clearly an extrapolation on the graph which may be proved wrong, but worth seeing over the next few days if Sweden run through the same seasonal virus burst that the rest of the continent has done, with completely different counter measures.

Would be good to run a proper sweepstake on when the predicted 3rd wave would hit across the continent and what would be it's impact ...

Image
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Mog The Almighty
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:03 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:00 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:22 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:50 pm Hang in there Swedes
:lol: As if you care. You have a vested interest in seeing Sweden do as badly as possible just so it would give you some kind of personal validation.

The graph in Sweden follows the same trend as virtually everywhere else in Europe.
I'd much prefer it if Sweden told Tegnell and the let em die brigade to piss off. However they didn't and they are where they are. Stay safe Mong
Why? If the people of Sweden (or anywhere else) are willing to take the risk and or sacriice for the sake of their personal freedom (or whatever other reason), why would you wish they were forced to do otherwise?

For the record, Tegnell & "the brigade" have repeatedly stressed the importance of social distancing, working from home if you are able, etc. they have just not enforced it by law, and I don't think the Swedish system even allows them to do that; and the trend here is broadly the same as in the rest of Europe. There are plenty of places that are doing worse than Sweden, but all the focus is on Sweden, particularly from within other countries that chose starkly different strategies. Personally I find that kind of nationalistic cheer-leading quite off putting. There's plenty of other places doing badly that they could concentrate on.

That said, it does appear that Tegnell has f-cked up here. Maybe he's been just a wee bit arrogant. I can't for the life of me understand why he won't recommend at least that everyone wear masks. That just makes no sense at all ... I mean surely wearing a mask won't make it worse and it seems a matter of common sense that it's better than nothing.
Why are you talking about "forced". Sometimes you seem to need help
Are you serious right now?

Because that's the big difference in Sweden's methods maybe? Sweden is in lockdown just like anywhere else, the big difference is that it's not enforced by the government, just strongly recommended.

Sometimes you seem to not have a clue what you're talking about. Why are you so passionate about a country on the other side of the world you obviously don't know anything about apart from what you read in some dumb local newspaper? Do you think Swedish people are just all hanging out in bars, spitting in each others mouths and congratulating each other over how smart Anders Tegnell is or something?

The ridiculous queues outside of nightclubs, etc. that were in the media in Australia are way worse than anything I've seen in Sweden. Way, way, way, way worse.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

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Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:35 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:03 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:00 pm
Anonymous 1 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:22 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:10 pm
:lol: As if you care. You have a vested interest in seeing Sweden do as badly as possible just so it would give you some kind of personal validation.

The graph in Sweden follows the same trend as virtually everywhere else in Europe.
I'd much prefer it if Sweden told Tegnell and the let em die brigade to piss off. However they didn't and they are where they are. Stay safe Mong
Why? If the people of Sweden (or anywhere else) are willing to take the risk and or sacriice for the sake of their personal freedom (or whatever other reason), why would you wish they were forced to do otherwise?

For the record, Tegnell & "the brigade" have repeatedly stressed the importance of social distancing, working from home if you are able, etc. they have just not enforced it by law, and I don't think the Swedish system even allows them to do that; and the trend here is broadly the same as in the rest of Europe. There are plenty of places that are doing worse than Sweden, but all the focus is on Sweden, particularly from within other countries that chose starkly different strategies. Personally I find that kind of nationalistic cheer-leading quite off putting. There's plenty of other places doing badly that they could concentrate on.

That said, it does appear that Tegnell has f-cked up here. Maybe he's been just a wee bit arrogant. I can't for the life of me understand why he won't recommend at least that everyone wear masks. That just makes no sense at all ... I mean surely wearing a mask won't make it worse and it seems a matter of common sense that it's better than nothing.
Why are you talking about "forced". Sometimes you seem to need help
Are you serious right now?

Because that's the big difference in Sweden's methods maybe? Sweden is in lockdown just like anywhere else, the big difference is that it's not enforced by the government, just strongly recommended.

Sometimes you seem to not have a clue what you're talking about. Why are you so passionate about a country on the other side of the world you obviously don't know anything about apart from what you read in some dumb local newspaper? Do you think Swedish people are just all hanging out in bars, spitting in each others mouths and congratulating each other over how smart Anders Tegnell is or something?

The ridiculous queues outside of nightclubs, etc. that were in the media in Australia are way worse than anything I've seen in Sweden. Way, way, way, way worse.
Now i get your new angle. They were in lockdown :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
towny
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

Well, I am here to take my lumps.

I was wrong!

A few weeks ago I predicted big numbers of Swedish deaths. Infections are through the roof but we haven't seen any spike in deaths. This is great news! I am very happy to be wrong.

In this second wave, Sweden has one of the lower rates of deaths in Europé - still higher than it's geographic neighbours but far lower than most. I don't know how they've managed it but they have.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Enzedder »

Yeah, I count like that when I am having pints as well.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Monkey Magic »

Unfortunately for Sweden, a lot of people early on in other countries jumped on their position as a counter to governments 'taking away freedom' through lockdown.

Sadly the people doing that also massively misrepresented what was happening in Sweden - no mention that yes some students stayed home etc - and the way they did it really wound people up so now they want to stick the boot in. When in reality they wanted to tell media commentators who didn't know shjt and kept changing their position just to be contrary to shove it.

There really aren't winners, ffs Mog had said he's had to isolate for an age. Fingers crossed the vaccines roll out and are effective
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Monkey Magic wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:00 am Unfortunately for Sweden, a lot of people early on in other countries jumped on their position as a counter to governments 'taking away freedom' through lockdown.

Sadly the people doing that also massively misrepresented what was happening in Sweden - no mention that yes some students stayed home etc - and the way they did it really wound people up so now they want to stick the boot in. When in reality they wanted to tell media commentators who didn't know shjt and kept changing their position just to be contrary to shove it.

There really aren't winners, ffs Mog had said he's had to isolate for an age. Fingers crossed the vaccines roll out and are effective
I haven't "had to isolate", I just have voluntarily, as have most Swedes. I am technically allowed to catch a bus into the office, go out for beers and dinner afterwards, etc., I just don't, although I did a bit during the summer when the numbers were dwindling towards nothing (like, literally four or five times).

Yeah it's pretty desperate and weird shit from some posters, particularly Kiwis for some reason, seem to have this bizarre emotional attachment to what their government did vs. what Sweden did. I suspect because the NZ press kept comparing them to Sweden while they sat around tugging each other off about how well they were doing isolated on a tiny island in the middle of the pacific during the summer time. A point of national pride and Sweden is "a threat" to that.

It's a shame they are falling over themselves to rub it in to some tiny Scandinavian country on the other side of the world. The most negative emotion should be general indifference and you would hope most actually want Sweden to do well, regardless of a difference in national strategy. What a dumb thing to get patriotic about.
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Monkey Magic
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Monkey Magic »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:00 am Unfortunately for Sweden, a lot of people early on in other countries jumped on their position as a counter to governments 'taking away freedom' through lockdown.

Sadly the people doing that also massively misrepresented what was happening in Sweden - no mention that yes some students stayed home etc - and the way they did it really wound people up so now they want to stick the boot in. When in reality they wanted to tell media commentators who didn't know shjt and kept changing their position just to be contrary to shove it.

There really aren't winners, ffs Mog had said he's had to isolate for an age. Fingers crossed the vaccines roll out and are effective
I haven't "had to isolate", I just have voluntarily, as have most Swedes. I am technically allowed to catch a bus into the office, go out for beers and dinner afterwards, etc., I just don't, although I did a bit during the summer when the numbers were dwindling towards nothing (like, literally four or five times).

Yeah it's pretty desperate and weird shit from some posters, particularly Kiwis for some reason, seem to have this bizarre emotional attachment to what their government did vs. what Sweden did. I suspect because the NZ press kept comparing them to Sweden while they sat around tugging each other off about how well they were doing isolated on a tiny island in the middle of the pacific during the summer time. A point of national pride and Sweden is "a threat" to that.

It's a shame they are falling over themselves to rub it in to some tiny Scandinavian country on the other side of the world. The most negative emotion should be general indifference and you would hope most actually want Sweden to do well, regardless of a difference in national strategy. What a dumb thing to get patriotic about.
'Have' to isolate was maybe too strong, felt like it was prudent given the situation, might be more accurate in your case - but it shows that peoples lives are being impacted. One of the issue we had was people saying we should be running around free like Sweden, when that wasn't actually the case in Sweden at all.

Also I'm in nz, feel our govt got a lot right and also a lot of luck. Biggest thing ive said before on here is we had a couple of weeks to see how other countries went so could adjust accordingly. Hence rapid massive lockdown, our health system wouldn't have coped if we let it spread too long, and we found in August we only stay safe as long as everyone keeps getting tested when they're sick
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Monkey Magic wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:13 am
Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:31 am
Monkey Magic wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:00 am Unfortunately for Sweden, a lot of people early on in other countries jumped on their position as a counter to governments 'taking away freedom' through lockdown.

Sadly the people doing that also massively misrepresented what was happening in Sweden - no mention that yes some students stayed home etc - and the way they did it really wound people up so now they want to stick the boot in. When in reality they wanted to tell media commentators who didn't know shjt and kept changing their position just to be contrary to shove it.

There really aren't winners, ffs Mog had said he's had to isolate for an age. Fingers crossed the vaccines roll out and are effective
I haven't "had to isolate", I just have voluntarily, as have most Swedes. I am technically allowed to catch a bus into the office, go out for beers and dinner afterwards, etc., I just don't, although I did a bit during the summer when the numbers were dwindling towards nothing (like, literally four or five times).

Yeah it's pretty desperate and weird shit from some posters, particularly Kiwis for some reason, seem to have this bizarre emotional attachment to what their government did vs. what Sweden did. I suspect because the NZ press kept comparing them to Sweden while they sat around tugging each other off about how well they were doing isolated on a tiny island in the middle of the pacific during the summer time. A point of national pride and Sweden is "a threat" to that.

It's a shame they are falling over themselves to rub it in to some tiny Scandinavian country on the other side of the world. The most negative emotion should be general indifference and you would hope most actually want Sweden to do well, regardless of a difference in national strategy. What a dumb thing to get patriotic about.
'Have' to isolate was maybe too strong, felt like it was prudent given the situation, might be more accurate in your case - but it shows that peoples lives are being impacted. One of the issue we had was people saying we should be running around free like Sweden, when that wasn't actually the case in Sweden at all.

Also I'm in nz, feel our govt got a lot right and also a lot of luck. Biggest thing ive said before on here is we had a couple of weeks to see how other countries went so could adjust accordingly. Hence rapid massive lockdown, our health system wouldn't have coped if we let it spread too long, and we found in August we only stay safe as long as everyone keeps getting tested when they're sick
I didn't mean that to be a slight against Kiwis, I like Kiwis and I wish to the good god (or the stars or whatever) that Australian politicians could be more like NZ politicians. The absolute unbelievable dummies that keep getting elected in Australia make me embarrassed to be an Australian. New Zealand does so much right and good, not just rugby. So I wasn't having a go at NZ, just for the record.

It's just a few posters here. Everyone seems to have a pretty rational, balanced view and then there's a few kiwi posters that seem to take it all very personally, and I sort-of don't blame them considering what I've seen in some of your media (including photographs of Sweden in summer-time and probably also pre-COVID, as if that's what life is like now).

I think folk are getting too attached to strategies and not thinking about it very rationally. What applies to one country may not apply to another. If Sweden was in NZ's place, a small, relatively isolated island nation in the middle of the pacific in summer time, as opposed to the gateway to the Nordic nations at the top of Europe in the middle of a brutally cold, wet and dark winter, then I suspect Anders Tegnell would be being hailed as a super star of science and reason (like he was during the summer when all the statistics were nose-diving towards nothingness and Swedes got too complacent). Regardless, the trends in Sweden roughly mirror most other European countries, regardless of the tactics used to combat COVID. If someone wants to pick on one country, you can find plenty that are doing worse than Sweden.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Petej »

Sweden has been unfairly used by wankers in the uk and usa press and politician's. The rules aren't required because a lot of people in sweden seemed to have locked down without them being needed (a display of common sense compared to the stupidity of the uk and USA-a better informed and more educated populace) and sweden has better public/welfare state support than USA or UK.

As for sweden's icu being full even with less covid patient's hardly surprising as more icu beds taken up by normal winter pressures.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Petej wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:33 am Sweden has been unfairly used by wankers in the uk and usa press and politician's. The rules aren't required because a lot of people in sweden seemed to have locked down without them being needed (a display of common sense compared to the stupidity of the uk and USA-a better informed and more educated populace) and sweden has better public/welfare state support than USA or UK.

As for sweden's icu being full even with less covid patient's hardly surprising as more icu beds taken up by normal winter pressures.
Yeah this is all lies and FAKE video :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdZAZRiFq24
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Anonymous 1 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:36 pm
Petej wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:33 am Sweden has been unfairly used by wankers in the uk and usa press and politician's. The rules aren't required because a lot of people in sweden seemed to have locked down without them being needed (a display of common sense compared to the stupidity of the uk and USA-a better informed and more educated populace) and sweden has better public/welfare state support than USA or UK.

As for sweden's icu being full even with less covid patient's hardly surprising as more icu beds taken up by normal winter pressures.
Yeah this is all lies and FAKE video :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdZAZRiFq24
First of all, I saw or heard nothing at all outrageous there. It's not fake but it's hardly sensationalist either. And it's definitely not showing bodies lined up on the street or people spitting in each other's mouths for fun or whatever other bullshit you read in whatever dumb place you get your news.

It was actually odd seeing central Stockholm so empty! I wouldn't know how it is these days, as like most people I haven't been there in months. You definitely wouldn't know as you've never been there and don't have the first clue what you're talking about. Compared to the queues of people lined up to get into nightclubs in Australia, or photographs of parties in the USA, for example, that's f-cking nothing. I don't know why you have such a hard-on for Sweden. Did some Swedish girl reject you or some Viking f-ck the girl you had a crush on or something?

It was stupid analogy to Denmark at the start too considering the Danes are pretty much in the same boat as the Swedes as far as the trajectory of their covid statistics.

Lastly that video is quite old, whatever they claim. I know because there was blue skies in the background of one of the shots and Stockholm has officially had zero hours of sunlight since mid/late November. And if I'm wrong about that then it's even more unusual considering it's Christmas rush-hour shopping time and that street (they were filming the busiest shopping street in Sweden, Drottninggatan in central Stockholm) would usually be shoulder-to-shoulder at this time.
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Mog, on which planet are Denmark and Sweden's stats comparable?
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Enzedder »

What a dumb thing to get patriotic about.
It wasn't even really patriotism.

We were heading to an election and some very influential people (not intelligent, influential) were constantly going on that Sweden was right and we were wrong and that we should open up the country and we'd all be fine. Sweden became the antithesis of our strategy (and the thread title here almost backs that up).

Therefore Sweden became the target when it became obvious which strategy was correct for us. In reality it should have been the Talkback virologists who should have had their mics turned off.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by towny »

Petej wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:33 am Sweden has been unfairly used by wankers in the uk and usa press and politician's. The rules aren't required because a lot of people in sweden seemed to have locked down without them being needed (a display of common sense compared to the stupidity of the uk and USA-a better informed and more educated populace) and sweden has better public/welfare state support than USA or UK.

As for sweden's icu being full even with less covid patient's hardly surprising as more icu beds taken up by normal winter pressures.
The pressure on Sweden’s health system is far from typical. People who would otherwise be getting treated are not. It’s bad. People with Covid aren’t dying in big numbers, which is great; however right now isn’t a good time to get cancer, as your chances of early detection and treatment aren’t what they were in 2019.

7,000 people each day are testing positive. That’s the equivalent of 50k in the UK, or three times more per capita. It’s December and we’ve got 5 more months before we’ll get a reprieve from weather. It’s going to be farked.

The only good news is that the death rate (for Covid) is low.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Monkey Magic »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:12 pm
What a dumb thing to get patriotic about.
It wasn't even really patriotism.

We were heading to an election and some very influential people (not intelligent, influential) were constantly going on that Sweden was right and we were wrong and that we should open up the country and we'd all be fine. Sweden became the antithesis of our strategy (and the thread title here almost backs that up).

Therefore Sweden became the target when it became obvious which strategy was correct for us. In reality it should have been the Talkback virologists who should have had their mics turned off.
Exactly, when twats like this guy (and there are equivalents around the world), were plugging following Sweden, to counter them people started arguing against everything Swedish.

https://youtu.be/RP2S-IzLoWo
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CM11 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:51 pm Mog, on which planet are Denmark and Sweden's stats comparable?
Well ... every planet really. Sweden and New Zealands statistics are comparable. An orange and a 747 jet liner are comparable. But I'm being picky, I think what you're trying to ask is, "on which planet are they identical?". And that's not what I said, so you'd be building a strawman if you pretended that. I said that the graphs of their cornavirus statistics are on similar trajectories. Which they clearly are:

Image

Image

Image

Image

No, they're not identical, the numbers are not the same but the fact that the graphs follow the same trajectory does tell us something. I only did statistics 101 and 102 as part of my software engineering degree, but even I know that.

The correct reply here, FYI is, "oh, I get what you meant now. I see, yeah you're right". Just a friendly tip.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:13 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:51 pm Mog, on which planet are Denmark and Sweden's stats comparable?
Well ... every planet really. Sweden and New Zealands statistics are comparable. An orange and a 747 jet liner are comparable. But I'm being picky, I think what you're trying to ask is, "on which planet are they identical?". And that's not what I said, so you'd be building a strawman if you pretended that. I said that the graphs of their cornavirus statistics are on similar trajectories. Which they clearly are:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

No, they're not identical, the numbers are not the same but the fact that the graphs follow the same trajectory does tell us something. I only did statistics 101 and 102 as part of my software engineering degree, but even I know that.
Sweden have 5 times, adjusted per capita, Denmark's deaths. Twice as many people have died in Sweden's second wave than throughout in Denmark. Sweden are 26th on deaths per million, Denmark are below the world average in 89th.

Cases in the second wave are about all you'll get as close with Sweden a little but not massively ahead but then cases are a function of testing and hospitalisations and deaths are much more comparable. Sweden has over twice as many in ICU, adjusted.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

Monkey Magic wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:46 pm
Enzedder wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:12 pm
What a dumb thing to get patriotic about.
It wasn't even really patriotism.

We were heading to an election and some very influential people (not intelligent, influential) were constantly going on that Sweden was right and we were wrong and that we should open up the country and we'd all be fine. Sweden became the antithesis of our strategy (and the thread title here almost backs that up).

Therefore Sweden became the target when it became obvious which strategy was correct for us. In reality it should have been the Talkback virologists who should have had their mics turned off.
Exactly, when twats like this guy (and there are equivalents around the world), were plugging following Sweden, to counter them people started arguing against everything Swedish.

https://youtu.be/RP2S-IzLoWo
I don't know that guy, I took one look at his dumb head and turned it off.

But to fair, you don't know if you could have done it like Sweden (with vastly better results). You probably could have, being a tiny, low-population island in the middle of nowhere.

And we still don't really know how it's going to turn out for Sweden in the long term. Obviously it's not looking great right at this moment, but it's not looking great for a hell of a lot of places, all with different strategies for tackling the problem.

It's a logically disingenuous to cherry pick the one place the supports your ideology. You could pick countries that locked down hard and still have huge problems. New Zealand is a different place to Sweden.

To be clear I'm not taking any side here, especially not in NZ politics, and especially especially not with the guy in that video. I'm just saying you don't really know, none of us do, and we will not for quite a long time.

As I've said before, I don't know why they don't recommend people to wear masks, but apart from that, I don't have HUGE problems with anything else they've done and I'm smart enough to know what I don't know. I think in five or six years time the experts will be in a better place to pick apart what who did what right or wrong.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CM11 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:26 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:13 pm
CM11 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:51 pm Mog, on which planet are Denmark and Sweden's stats comparable?
Well ... every planet really. Sweden and New Zealands statistics are comparable. An orange and a 747 jet liner are comparable. But I'm being picky, I think what you're trying to ask is, "on which planet are they identical?". And that's not what I said, so you'd be building a strawman if you pretended that. I said that the graphs of their cornavirus statistics are on similar trajectories. Which they clearly are:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

No, they're not identical, the numbers are not the same but the fact that the graphs follow the same trajectory does tell us something. I only did statistics 101 and 102 as part of my software engineering degree, but even I know that.
Sweden have 5 times, adjusted per capita, Denmark's deaths. Twice as many people have died in Sweden's second wave than throughout in Denmark. Sweden are 26th on deaths per million, Denmark are below the world average in 89th.

Cases in the second wave are about all you'll get as close with Sweden a little but not massively ahead but then cases are a function of testing and hospitalisations and deaths are much more comparable. Sweden has over twice as many in ICU, adjusted.
:roll: I even told you what the right answer was. It was right there.

This is the wrong answer. This is the "I can't admit I was wrong" answer. Don't be that guy.
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Mog, please tell me you didn't just post graphs with different scales that look similar and then went 'ah, ha!!'.

Cause one of your graphs looks like it's in the 10s of thousands for Sweden and thousands for Denmark. And is the other 100s for one and thousands for the other?
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by Mog The Almighty »

CM11 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:30 pm Mog, please tell me you didn't just post graphs with different scales that look similar and then went 'ah, ha!!'.

Cause one of your graphs looks like it's in the 10s of thousands for Sweden and thousands for Denmark. And is the other 100s for one and thousands for the other?
No, that's not what I did. :roll:

I even spelled it all out for you in the post. I even told you the right response. This place is a nuthouse sometimes. Stop trying to kick goals and start actually reading what I write.
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CM11
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Re: It's official, Sweden declare themselves the Covid winners

Post by CM11 »

Can you link those graphs because they're not clear.

Either way, no, a situation where one country has 5 times the other country's deaths is not comparable.

Even if you want to do second wave, Sweden's case fatality rate is 3 times Denmark's.
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